Trinity Nerfs are incoming be prepared

[(PSN)lhbuch]

At real end game 75% DR is nothing, the team is still going to die. 

Trinity still lacks CC which is what really can cheese the game. Please dont nerf Trinity AGAIN.

Edited August 16, 2017 by (PS4)lhbuch

[(PSN)abbacephas]

*sees thread title*

*comes for the memes*

*leaves disappointed*

[Ventura_Highway]

EV is part of a bigger problem.

Personally I think it's pretty nuts we can take away an enemy's sight, freedom of movement, and ability to distinguish their friends from us, their foes, all the while giving them a thorough bath of anti-matter and a pocket knife or prod to replace the gun we stole. And then, within seconds, we can do that to another entire room full of their comrades.

[Xolgys]

trinity has no inbuilt damage herself, she is a meatshield at best ignoring her remaining loadout. sure there are weapons, but other frames have their own damage on top and even without a trinity u can replenish energy and health fairly well. there is zenurik, there is stuff like life strike or healing return even if it doesnt compare its still there. we also have auras for healing/energy replenish and if a player does manage his energy and health he can solo mission for quite a long time. ofc u need to be careful if u dont have a trinity in ur team and play higher mission or even endless for a long time. still the point is that trinity surely enables some shenanigans but if a player takes the spot of being a supportive frame with only tankyness besides heal/energy restore then the impact should be there for the team. making trinity worse stats wise wont be a solution for a support exclusive frame. maybe making the health/energy restore dependant on dealt damage to the target rather than a fixed value would help. trinity can do that alone so she wouldnt be dead if someone played her solo but stuff like bere easymode spam wouldnt be as abusable anymore as trinity had to also shoot the target instead of just facerolling on the keyboard.

[Tesseract7777]

21 hours ago, Milinko said:

-snip-

Kind of clickbaity, "incoming" is not a good way to describe Trinity changes. 

Scott literally said that she wasn't even on the radar right now, and that he would not go after her until he had time to do a full rework and give her a lot of new pluses to go with any nerfs. 

And while I don't remember his exact words, he made it pretty clear she was very low on his list of rework priorities. 

Which means it could actually be years.

That's not what incoming means. -

[Dogefighter]

Please, trinity nerfs are ALWAYS coming.

[motorfirebox]

Trinity's problem isn't really being too powerful, it's being too boring. She requires—and I say this as someone with Trinity as his most-played frame and Trin P as his fourth—absolutely no skill to play well. Hit 2. Hit 4. Hit 3 if you're using a Blessing build. Repeat.

She needs a complete, complete, complete rework, ground up. Not to nerf her, although pretty much any rework that makes her more fun to play will also make her less powerful. But to make her into a frame with a focus on healing instead of on frickin' narcolepsy.

[(PSN)RedWhiskey96]

 

She's suffering from the same thing that old Ash Blade Storm used to suffer from, press button to instantly win - it's non interactive and other people feel robbed of fun because when it's effective it's TOO effective.

Trinity doesn't even do damage !  All warframes envolve  pressing buttons to win  that's what warframes are for she's a frame ment to heal and support she does nothing. Other then support her allies she doesn't need a nerf and she's nothing like old ashes blade storm   I csnt see any squad doing the raid or reaching  and surviving  end game level content with out her shes not over powered by any means sure she can heal  her self and others and supply energy but she  still goes down she will eventually take fatal damage she doesn't need to be  nerfed let her support 

[(PSN)RedWhiskey96]

When I get blessed by a trinity I don't curse her out I type in the chat thank you it makes no sense this frame does damage nerf it this frame does no damage but it can actually heal nerf it saying that it's press 'four to win is not a valid argument "when every frame envolve  spamming abilitys over and over  not all frames are ment to shine nerfing has not worked for warframe clearly since players will always find a way to do the most damage stop forceing people to play your way i think it's time DE took a different route to fixing these issues because clearly nerfing hasnt solved anything and never will

[Xaero]

On 16.08.2017 at 8:43 AM, Neightrix said:

They explicitly said Trinity isn't even on the radar to get touched anywhere in the foreseeable future. Somebody hasn't gotten zenurik's energy overflow yet if they think Trinity is overpowered. I regularly decline offers to bring Trinity to anything except LoR because it's better to have every frame contributing to the fight. In a game this easy and casual, there's no reason this should even be a discussion. Trinity is fine.

Wait, do I get it right?

Trinity is fine where she is and is not overpowered at all, but you prefer not to see her in most missions because other frames can't contribute if she is there (which means she trivializes most content).

Don't these two statements contradict with each other?

 

[Xaero]

9 hours ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

At real end game 75% DR is nothing, the team is still going to die. 

Trinity still lacks CC which is what really can cheese the game. Please dont nerf Trinity AGAIN.

What's real endgame? There's nothing to see above sortie level (besides John Prodman at a very specific mission type).

[Xaero]

2 hours ago, (PS4)RedWhiskey96 said:

 

She's suffering from the same thing that old Ash Blade Storm used to suffer from, press button to instantly win - it's non interactive and other people feel robbed of fun because when it's effective it's TOO effective.

Trinity doesn't even do damage !  All warframes envolve  pressing buttons to win  that's what warframes are for she's a frame ment to heal and support she does nothing. Other then support her allies she doesn't need a nerf and she's nothing like old ashes blade storm   I csnt see any squad doing the raid or reaching  and surviving  end game level content with out her shes not over powered by any means sure she can heal  her self and others and supply energy but she  still goes down she will eventually take fatal damage she doesn't need to be  nerfed let her support 

What? Were you trying to quote someone? You literally said "Trinity's 4 is just like old Ash's 4 but it's nothing like old Ash's 4".

Edit: nvm I found the post you were quoting. Well, wouldn't it be better if Trinity had her role expanded with damage and cc? Trinity's gameplay is boring. If she was just toned down, it wouldn't change the core problem, most players who claim they love Trinity would instantly abandon her. What she needs is a full rework which makes her more diversed and useful outside of energy battery definition.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Ksaero

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

On 8/16/2017 at 0:24 AM, Milinko said:

This way there is a reason to use her one because currently when was the last time you actually remembered that it was there. No really have you used her 1 after she was fully leveled don't lie to me. I can hear you typing lies just because you don't want her nerfed.

I used it just last week in the LoR.  My bomb carrier got held up and there was only 1 enemy in the room for me to EV, so I used her 1 to CC the enemy without damaging it and held it there until my bomb carrier arrived and could receive the energy from my EV.

It's not the most useful ability (not many frames have 4 completely useful abilities) but players who understand her kit can find a use for it as I did.

[Neightrix]

9 hours ago, Ksaero said:

Wait, do I get it right?

Trinity is fine where she is and is not overpowered at all, but you prefer not to see her in most missions because other frames can't contribute if she is there (which means she trivializes most content).

Don't these two statements contradict with each other?

 

Saying she isn't needed is not saying she isn't good enough. She is added fluff for less efficiency teams or newer players who don't have Energy Overflow yet - or for people who simply want to play support. She's in a good place, There's no reason to change her.

[Vivian]

I strongly disagree with nerfing Trinity. Or changing her. I've been playing her quite extensively for the past few days. Trinity can be built depending on needs and specialised builds are dependent on others for compensating lack of certain stats. Like Bless depending on EV, EV depending on Bless etc. When you run a high tier mission with an Abating Link trinity who can tank and EV carefully, you'll see that she requires a great deal of attention and skill. Specialized builds being good is because they are specialized! I'd accept a nerf if Trinity is shredding everything easily but she's not. 

If you want to have "fun" as she's too easy, go abating link with 75% on bless. Stop being fickle by prompting bad ideas and don't call for nerfs without using the frame extensively without depending on others. Everything is OP when you build for it. You build FOR becoming OP. 

 

Here's an example of "Interactive Gameplay" :

Start alarms in Mot > EV the first Enemy and kill them instantly for quick energy > EV the next enemy and bless > Keep the EV target alive for consistent energy and hit Link (this will clear your energy bar) > Avoid taking way too much incoming damage > cycle EV Link and Blessing > Get closer to armoured targets and try to link to them to strip armour > win

If you open youtube, search for "Trinity ELITE EV build" - build it, press EV and get annoyed because you're getting a lot of energy...that's just......

Edited August 17, 2017 by Shadilay

[(PSN)TertulSee]

On 8/16/2017 at 0:01 AM, Buddhakingpen said:

Trinity doesnt need a nerf or a buff. She needs a rework.  Not because she's bad, but because she's a frame with 0 skill cap and the lowest possible skill ceiling. Mod for what you want, press the buttons for the effects you want, very little need for timing. Literally the only skill you need is the ability to look at timers. Thats not interactive gameplay. Its effective, but there should be some kind of skill necessary for a team battery. 

Well, that's until later levels when she can't take a single hit without Link or Blessing up. I feel like later on, Trinity falls down really quickly because her abilities are slow enough and can get you instantly one shot. If she had more Armor or the ability to actually take damage, then we can talk about nerfing her kit. The problem with her is that she's too squishy and any enemies can just hit her and she will die. Plus, every other support frame are not purely support oriented. Oberon can deal load of damage with the right set up, Nidus has pretty much infinite damage. Harrow hits so hard that he can one shot bosses out of nowhere. Trinity? She only give energy. Those people who are call for Trinity Nerfs haven't played her long enough to actually say that she needs Nerfs. I've played quite a bit of Trinity and I feel like she's a good frame for newer players to start with because she's easy to mod for. She should be late game viable but it's much harder to use because of how squishy she is. She does take skills because she needs to avoid damage at all costs and any damage would just kill her.

[Buddhakingpen]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

Well, that's until later levels when she can't take a single hit without Link or Blessing up. I feel like later on, Trinity falls down really quickly because her abilities are slow enough and can get you instantly one shot. If she had more Armor or the ability to actually take damage, then we can talk about nerfing her kit. The problem with her is that she's too squishy and any enemies can just hit her and she will die. Plus, every other support frame are not purely support oriented. Oberon can deal load of damage with the right set up, Nidus has pretty much infinite damage. Harrow hits so hard that he can one shot bosses out of nowhere. Trinity? She only give energy. Those people who are call for Trinity Nerfs haven't played her long enough to actually say that she needs Nerfs. I've played quite a bit of Trinity and I feel like she's a good frame for newer players to start with because she's easy to mod for. She should be late game viable but it's much harder to use because of how squishy she is. She does take skills because she needs to avoid damage at all costs and any damage would just kill her.

Squishy? Not for DEAC she's not.  Everything under sortie 3/ raid level she can pretty much solo with her tankiness.

As i said, she doesnt need a nerf, she needs a rework. She could be given more if she required some kind of skill to play.  But given the endless possibilities of overpowered frame ability combinations, and her EV being able to make them mod for those combinations in as strong a way as possible, her not needing to really do anything but click on an enemy to make that happen, it kinda establishes her place imo. 

Every frame you mentioned requires skill. Harrow needs headshots, has very limited tankiness, and his only cc is his 1, which has to spread. Oberon needs to mod a very specific way, and use 3 of his abilities and at least 175 energy for his damage to come out, nidus needs to manage stacks for his 2 of his moves and his survivability in high level play.

Is she the BEST frame for trying to solo your way to level 300 enemies on mot? Of course not. But thats not what DE balances the game for, and only about 1% of the playerbase actually does that. On sorties, she has no issue. 75% damage reduction... plus 75% more damage reduction, rolling is 75% more damage reduction, if you use aviator, thats 40% damage reduction. She can get plenty tanky. 

[(PSN)TertulSee]

10 minutes ago, Buddhakingpen said:

Squishy? Not for DEAC she's not.  Everything under sortie 3/ raid level she can pretty much solo with her tankiness.

As i said, she doesnt need a nerf, she needs a rework. She could be given more if she required some kind of skill to play.  But given the endless possibilities of overpowered frame ability combinations, and her EV being able to make them mod for those combinations in as strong a way as possible, her not needing to really do anything but click on an enemy to make that happen, it kinda establishes her place imo. 

Every frame you mentioned requires skill. Harrow needs headshots, has very limited tankiness, and his only cc is his 1, which has to spread. Oberon needs to mod a very specific way, and use 3 of his abilities and at least 175 energy for his damage to come out, nidus needs to manage stacks for his 2 of his moves and his survivability in high level play.

Is she the BEST frame for trying to solo your way to level 300 enemies on mot? Of course not. But thats not what DE balances the game for, and only about 1% of the playerbase actually does that. On sorties, she has no issue. 75% damage reduction... plus 75% more damage reduction, rolling is 75% more damage reduction, if you use aviator, thats 40% damage reduction. She can get plenty tanky. 

Problem is the fact that she does rely on abilities to survive. If she down have her abilities up at all times, she is guaranteed to be one shotted even at around level 50. But tbh, I'm talking about Nullifiers and Bombards and the occasional Heavy Gunner. She needs her abilities to survive and it becomes really hard to do that when she also has to make sure everyone has energy. Overall, she should be given more survivability by herself without abilities. She only has 15 armor even with her Prime. I doubt that she can get anywhere without those abilities. Where do you think she would be without EV or Blessing? Nobody would play her and that's not good for business. Nerfing her would pretty much take her out of the game. A rework would probably make her less viable later on anyways unless they actually buff her to the point where she's actually more OP than before. There isn't really a good way to approach this without getting a hard hit to the player base.

Edited August 17, 2017 by (PS4)godlysparta

[texrei]

16 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

Trinity's problem isn't really being too powerful, it's being too boring. She requires—and I say this as someone with Trinity as his most-played frame and Trin P as his fourth—absolutely no skill to play well. Hit 2. Hit 4. Hit 3 if you're using a Blessing build. Repeat.

She needs a complete, complete, complete rework, ground up. Not to nerf her, although pretty much any rework that makes her more fun to play will also make her less powerful. But to make her into a frame with a focus on healing instead of on frickin' narcolepsy.

Yet too many Trinity players find too hard to use her skills a little more often than 5 times per a mission.

But i disagree about her "needing no skill" 

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

Trinity definitely needs a rework, not just a simple numbers nerf. She's also not fun to play as.

Her 1 which I can't even remember the name of has zero use anywhere. This alone should be reason for a review.

Link is so pathetically short even when duration mods are stacked on top of each other, and is even shorter when built for EV.

Energy Vamp is her one trick pony. If a kid isn't spamming "Giv enrgy nao" and you're not following orders like a good heal s*** then you're a bad Trinity.

And blessing completely replaces her 1 and is used as a band-aid fix for the game not having a proper health system in place for high level content. But I'll get one shoooot'd! You already get one shotted at level 30 because you don't equip vitality. Or you got ripped up by a Tech which will down anyone at any level.

I think her abilities should get some type of temporary invincibility right before a player goes down. Blessing doesn't work if they're already bleeding out. Link could be swapped to a spiderweb you lay on the ground. Would make it more obvious her kit is themed after a spider. Her 1 just change it. Doesn't matter what it is just change it. etc.

 

[Buddhakingpen]

1 hour ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

Problem is the fact that she does rely on abilities to survive. If she down have her abilities up at all times, she is guaranteed to be one shotted even at around level 50. But tbh, I'm talking about Nullifiers and Bombards and the occasional Heavy Gunner. She needs her abilities to survive and it becomes really hard to do that when she also has to make sure everyone has energy. Overall, she should be given more survivability by herself without abilities. She only has 15 armor even with her Prime. I doubt that she can get anywhere without those abilities. Where do you think she would be without EV or Blessing? Nobody would play her and that's not good for business. Nerfing her would pretty much take her out of the game. A rework would probably make her less viable later on anyways unless they actually buff her to the point where she's actually more OP than before. There isn't really a good way to approach this without getting a hard hit to the player base.

... Every frame relies on their abilities to survive. As they should. Thats the point of taking a warframe. Othewise you could just be an operator with a gun. Thats not an argument for trinity. She was very obviously given less armor because she has two forms of damage mitigation and a guaranteed way to never run out of energy, and can spread those advantages to her team.

I mean, if you're argument is that "frames with less than 100 armor die easily against level 50 enemies when not using their skills, cover, very overpowered movement system, or free damage mitigation in rolling, then youre argument really should be for the homogenization of armor values. Because thats the case with every non-tank/melee frame. Not just trinity. 

And changing a warframe ALWAYS polarizes the player base. Literally every time as far as i remember, except for the frost rework. Some people learn to get good with how things were, and dont want it to change. Other people hated how things were, and want it to change. Some people think the more overpowered something is, the more fun it is. Some people think the more overpowered something is, the less fun it is. So changing trinity is still a good idea imo. Because part of the community will cry regardless, and part will be happy, but it will be better for trinity from a design perspective. 

Edited August 17, 2017 by Buddhakingpen

[(PSN)lhbuch]

12 hours ago, Ksaero said:

What's real endgame? There's nothing to see above sortie level (besides John Prodman at a very specific mission type).

You have a good point, there is no real end game. 

I dont think she needs a nerf, other frames can also provide support in other ways and still also dont need nerfs.

Edited August 17, 2017 by (PS4)lhbuch

[Tesseract7777]

30 minutes ago, Buddhakingpen said:

... Every frame relies on their abilities to survive. As they should. Thats the point of taking a warframe. Othewise you could just be an operator with a gun. Thats not an argument for trinity. She was very obviously given less armor because she has two forms of damage mitigation and a guaranteed way to never run out of energy, and can spread those advantages to her team.

I mean, if you're argument is that "frames with less than 100 armor die easily against level 50 enemies when not using their skills, cover, very overpowered movement system, or free damage mitigation in rolling, then youre argument really should be for the homogenization of armor values. Because thats the case with every non-tank/melee frame. Not just trinity. 

And changing a warframe ALWAYS polarizes the player base. Literally every time as far as i remember, except for the frost rework. Some people learn to get good with how things were, and dont want it to change. Other people hated how things were, and want it to change. Some people think the more overpowered something is, the more fun it is. Some people think the more overpowered something is, the less fun it is. So changing trinity is still a good idea imo. Because part of the community will cry regardless, and part will be happy, but it will be better for trinity from a design perspective. 

There are also those people here every rework who complain because they posted some thread or had some idea in their head of "exactly" what the rework should be. And because DE basically didn't copy their idea almost exactly, they throw a world class hissy and will declare the entire thing awful with no redeem qualities at all, because it isn't what they imagined. 

 

[Archistopheles]

22 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

*sees thread title*

*comes for the memes*

*leaves disappointed*

I gotchu, fam.

[(PSN)TertulSee]

24 minutes ago, Buddhakingpen said:

... Every frame relies on their abilities to survive. As they should. Thats the point of taking a warframe. Othewise you could just be an operator with a gun. Thats not an argument for trinity. She was very obviously given less armor because she has two forms of damage mitigation and a guaranteed way to never run out of energy, and can spread those advantages to her team.

I mean, if you're argument is that "frames with less than 100 armor die easily against level 50 enemies when not using their skills, cover, very overpowered movement system, or free damage mitigation in rolling, then youre argument really should be for the homogenization of armor values. Because thats the case with every non-tank/melee frame. Not just trinity. 

And changing a warframe ALWAYS polarizes the player base. Literally every time as far as i remember, except for the frost rework. Some people learn to get good with how things were, and dont want it to change. Other people hated how things were, and want it to change. Some people think the more overpowered something is, the more fun it is. Some people think the more overpowered something is, the less fun it is. So changing trinity is still a good idea imo. Because part of the community will cry regardless, and part will be happy, but it will be better for trinity from a design perspective. 

I mean if they do change her abilities, she would need buffs to her stats. Working for damage mitigation is one thing but that would make Trinity too weak for higher level content. She has to jump around and cast Energy Vampire everywhere anyways. Removing the damage mitigation would call for some stat buffs. Otherwise, she would be too difficult and players would often look for someone else and that would damage Trinity's popularity. I feel like there isn't enough players playing Trinity and I would like her to have a more active role than just a battery. As we saw with Harrow, making Harrow have to kill enemies to restore energy isn't really a good idea because it would require too much coordination and that often draws people away. Right now, there really isn't a good way to rework her without making her just another Harrow copy so I would wait to see what comes up next.