Melee warframes against Nullifiers?

[Mesolimbo]

Normally, I can deal with 1-2 nullifiers heading my way, but at late endgame they start to rush in numbers and come from every direction disabling my tanking-ability and I get 1 shotted soon after. Happened so many times I just get salty. I'm building a Miter just for those A******s.

I enjoy melee the most, but it sucks when I spend time and forma on a frame just to find it useless when those bubbles are rushing in numbers. I end up forgetting about melee and just using ranged weapons.

What frames can deal with them in melee-range? I guess high-innate tankiness that doesn't depend on abilities + not liable to get 1-shotted. Inaros?

[SD.Laeley-EN-]

I'd say it's more depending on a melee itself. With an exception of excalibur, couse he's disgusting by default.
Whips, galatine, anything that has some sort of range will help taking down nullies without a need to switch to a gun.
And sadly, getting oneshoted will be a thing until we get shield gating ( shield absorbing all the damage no matter the number, without letting dmg to go past it and onto health ), but knowing DE, we'll have silver hair once that will be implemented.
I use prisma dual cleavers currently,and while i sometimes touch the bubble - it's somewhat possible to scratch the nully shield off without doing so.
P.S. endgame corpus by itself is a horseS#&$e due to scrambus units which disable your abillities through a wall and have no counter besides your tears \o/
And they still haven't removed them, so i guess it'll only get worse.

Edited September 27, 2017 by SD.Laeley-EN-

[Walkampf]

You have THREE WEAPONSLOTS for a reason. If you decide to ignore 2 of them and then run in an issue, that's your own fault.

[FrostedMike]

I never had troubles with them, honestly.
One slide attack should end them because they are pretty squishy. Thrown weapons are also great to take them down.

As far as frames... Got no idea because I deal with them no matter what.

[Elyann]

4 minutes ago, Mesolimbo said:

Normally, I can deal with 1-2 nullifiers heading my way, but at late endgame they start to rush in numbers and come from every direction disabling my tanking-ability and I get 1 shotted soon after. Happened so many times I just get salty. I'm building a Miter just for those A******s.

I enjoy melee the most, but it sucks when I spend time and forma on a frame just to find it useless when those bubbles are rushing in numbers. I end up forgetting about melee and just using ranged weapons.

What frames can deal with them in melee-range? I guess high-innate tankiness that doesn't depend on abilities + not liable to get 1-shotted. Inaros?

Alright,so...

Even though the best way to deal with nullifiers still remains the one to shoot their shields or drones from the distance ( it doesn't really take much to switch weapon when you find one...) if you want to deal with them in melee I'd strongly recommend using a Valkyr , Excal ( via spamming his 4 against their shields ) , Inaros , Nidus , maybe Wukong and his exalted weapon too ( still by attacking the bubble from outside ) .
Reach / Primed Reach help a lot if you prefer this kind of playstyle as they'll allow you to hit the bubble from a relatively safe distance , you only need a good melee weapon ( the ones that do already cover a certain range such as batons , heilberds , naginatas , ecc are preferred ofc ).

That said, talking about endgame, if you really want to stay alive and support your team in the best possible way ( by dpsing, using your cc , healing , tanking or whatever...) I'd simply suggest you to swap your weapon , shoot the nullifier's shield / bot and swap back to the weapon you prefer using ( or to the most effective one ).
As a melee frame....if your Hysteria or Iron Skin is up.....just avoid a melee fight with nullifiers , they are meant to harass you by deactivating your abilities, it's their role in the game, nothing can be done about it.
 

[Kyryo]

18 minutes ago, Mesolimbo said:

I'm building a Miter just for those A******s

Pls, explain why a miter should prove more helpful than other weapons. Does it ignore the bubble?

 

For the rest, i think Inaros, Nidus and any frame with a huge amount of armor should be able to survive long enough if supported by Life Strike, if there aren't many enemies around "protecting" the nullifier. 

 

They have been made to annoy players, and they are doing their job, we all hate them, no one needs them, they ruin the game, but DE doesn't really care so we just have to deal with them.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

I find that slide-attacking around the perimeter can be effective. Otherwise, if you are not adverse to carrying a firearm into battle (and actually have this weapon) the Azima is a great choice for taking down nully bubbles, just launch the disk and switch back to melee

Pls, explain why a miter should prove more helpful than other weapons. Does it ignore the bubble?

 

For the rest, i think Inaros, Nidus and any frame with a huge amount of armor should be able to survive long enough if supported by Life Strike, if there aren't many enemies around "protecting" the nullifier. 

 

They have been made to annoy players, and they are doing their job, we all hate them, no one needs them, they ruin the game, but DE doesn't really care so we just have to deal with them.

the miter is a great choice as it has an augment available for it that gives it a 90% chance to insta-pop bubbles

Edited September 27, 2017 by DeckChairVonBananaCamel

[Mesolimbo]

First, as I stated in my op, my issue isn't with low number of nullfiers, I can take them out with melee range + reach; it's when they rush in in great numbers that this tactic doesn't work effectively enough. Think 1 hour survival missions.

Second, nullifiers aren't squishy when it comes to melee, because no matter how hard you hit, your damage is reduced to a fixed amount and it takes several hits to kill it without getting inside the bubble yourself and killing the little man.

Third, I realize that we have 3 weapon slots for situational use, but when the game disables 1 of them (melee) when deep into endgame, it isn't situational anymore; it just means melee is an inferior class that isn't very-endgame worthy that DE doesn't want you to use them; I'm not allowed to use it without risking death. (4-5 nullifiers rushing your way, you can only use 2 slots and stay far away)

@Kyryo, Miter has an augment mod that gives it 90% chance to pop nullifier bubble instantly. I have not tried it since I'm still building the weapon so I have no comment on that.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Mesolimbo

[HyokaChan]

45 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

You have THREE WEAPONSLOTS for a reason. If you decide to ignore 2 of them and then run in an issue, that's your own fault.

melee only sortie

 

now you don't

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

40 minutes ago, Mesolimbo said:

@Kyryo, Miter has an augment mod that gives it 90% chance to pop nullifier bubble instantly. I have not tried it since I'm still building the weapon so I have no comment on that.

Not only will it pop the bubble, but it destroys the drone meaning the bubble is permanently destroyed and the nullifier cannot bring it back up.  Also, with multishot, extra projectiles will continue to travel forward, so it's possible to take out an enemy inside the bubble with a single shot, or even take out multiple bubbles with a single shot.  It's worth it IMO.

[Dante]

25 minutes ago, HyokaChan said:

melee only sortie

 

now you don't

Operator.

[/thread]

[DarthKadra]

You need a ton of EHP without abilities. At some point Valkyr Prime with Vitality + Steel Fiber and QT will not be enough, because of the constant flow of nullies, and general corpus armageddon in the form of all kinds of mines and flying saucers. Only way to be safe is to be invisible, so 2xArcane Trickery and frames that can make use of it (I'm not considering Shadow Step because it's basically a cheat and it's about to be removed anyway). 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Ash sounds like a decent choice there...

Melee ability frame that doesn't need much and is able to eather switch into invisibility real quick or to completely bypass the dispell by aiming for arcane trickery.

A lil advice for bladestorm too: it's damage is decent as is and scales off combo, what you wanna focus on is its speed. That one scales off melee mods so you wanna get your hands on primed fury, possibly arcane strike and a melee riven with attack speed. (Not berserker. That one is excepted)

The remaining build as you see fit. I tend to run with upped basestats, rage, streamline primed con and the auguments fatal teleport and rising storm these days.

Edited September 27, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[DarthKadra]

3 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

primed fury, possibly arcane strike and a melee riven with attack speed

An interesting question here is if there is a cap on animation speed. I think there's a cap. I have tried Primed Fury and Primed Fury with a Riven mod with +Attack Speed on the Sheev and I saw no difference whatsoever between the two loadouts (both for Bladestorm and Teleport finisher). Each one of them used separately sped up things quite noticeably, which is no surprise, but I couldn't see any benefit when I tested them together. I also think I read something about such a cap existing on the Internets. So I wonder if Primed Fury + Arcane Strike can actually stack for Bladestorm or Teleport finisher animations. I'm inclined to believe they will not. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

2 hours ago, frohdoe said:

An interesting question here is if there is a cap on animation speed. I think there's a cap. I have tried Primed Fury and Primed Fury with a Riven mod with +Attack Speed on the Sheev and I saw no difference whatsoever between the two loadouts (both for Bladestorm and Teleport finisher). Each one of them used separately sped up things quite noticeably, which is no surprise, but I couldn't see any benefit when I tested them together. I also think I read something about such a cap existing on the Internets. So I wonder if Primed Fury + Arcane Strike can actually stack for Bladestorm or Teleport finisher animations. I'm inclined to believe they will not. 

There doesn't seem to be one. BS gets quite obviously faster when using rivens and even faster when arcane strike is active, what just wouldn't be the case if there was one. Heard that one too but only as rumor with no legit source, in a discussion where people actually took the opportunity to test and confirm it doesn't so idk man. Not sure where that one even comes from...

May root in salty people who can't quite take that propper setups bring BS's speed now close to it's pre-reworked state .... it's by numbers (max is ~280% i believe) allmost 3 times as fast thus as fast as it was with 2 clones, how slow it was beein a major flagship for all kinds of rework threads these days.... i wouldn't really put too much faith in these is my take on that, but i'm on ps4 and i'm missing the fps and tools to propperly measure it so i may be just as biased. That it definitly feels faster, by, like a lot is all i can confirm for myself. Strike may be the key element here now that i think about it... i mean it definitly doesn't feel like "only" 20% more when it's active..

 

Teleport finishers are a different story tho. BS is designed to allow attack speed to begin with while i'm not sure how far regular finisher animations allow speed varriations at all...they might be static for all i know.

Edited September 27, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Desperado14]

I would imagine naramon is out of the question, since it's going to kick the bucket shortly. 

If all of the above solutions above are out of the question, it is going to come down to good old fashion skill and target prioritization.  The reason nullifiers are in warframe to begin with is so that abilities don't take over the game.  Player skill has to come into effect eventually.  That generally means NOT heading straight into the nullifier bubbles and expecting good results.  And it's not the nullifiers that are the issue..., it's all the bombards and ancient healers in the bubble with them, shooting at you!  It's one thing to shoot the nullifiers if you have a primary or secondary, but if you have only melee, prioritize the bombards and healers! Those are the things that will kill you.  Not the nullifiers.  

[Maelstrom980]

if you have to Melee slap bubbles off nullies good old Orthos(Prime) or another reasonably fast  weapon with long reach, most of the whips are also good.

[Mesolimbo]

17 hours ago, Desperado14 said:

I would imagine naramon is out of the question, since it's going to kick the bucket shortly. 

If all of the above solutions above are out of the question, it is going to come down to good old fashion skill and target prioritization.  The reason nullifiers are in warframe to begin with is so that abilities don't take over the game.  Player skill has to come into effect eventually.  That generally means NOT heading straight into the nullifier bubbles and expecting good results.  And it's not the nullifiers that are the issue..., it's all the bombards and ancient healers in the bubble with them, shooting at you!  It's one thing to shoot the nullifiers if you have a primary or secondary, but if you have only melee, prioritize the bombards and healers! Those are the things that will kill you.  Not the nullifiers.  

When there are 5 nullifiers and a ton of enemies on screen, you won't be able to see S#&$ anyway because of the bubbles and there's no where to go take cover and try to prioritize since bubbles can go-through walls. If they want the game to be less ability-dependent, they could have improved the A.I. and added shooting over covers into the equation. Nullifier is a terrible game design. A lazy one. Instead they should have improved the A.I.

Even Borderlands 2 has a better A.I. than this game. In this game, enemies just charge headfirst at you, not fearing death or dodging and not taking cover more effectively (when they do take cover, that is). Instead, they add nullfiers that can disable your survival ability and get you 1-shotted in the process. Great design, DE!

If you want to add nullifiers, make it a personal device for each enemy where the bubble only covers said enemy - and said enemy alone so they would be resistant to your ability without disabling your survival ability. Improve the A.I. to make it more challenging instead of this superficial design.

[xXDeadsinxX]

You know, you could just use your melee weapon that you have equipped instead of your primary. 

[Naftal]

39 minutes ago, Mesolimbo said:

When there are 5 nullifiers and a ton of enemies on screen, you won't be able to see S#&$ anyway because of the bubbles and there's no where to go take cover and try to prioritize since bubbles can go-through walls. If they want the game to be less ability-dependent, they could have improved the A.I. and added shooting over covers into the equation. Nullifier is a terrible game design. A lazy one. Instead they should have improved the A.I.

Even Borderlands 2 has a better A.I. than this game. In this game, enemies just charge headfirst at you, not fearing death or dodging and not taking cover more effectively (when they do take cover, that is). Instead, they add nullfiers that can disable your survival ability and get you 1-shotted in the process. Great design, DE!

If you want to add nullifiers, make it a personal device for each enemy where the bubble only covers said enemy - and said enemy alone so they would be resistant to your ability without disabling your survival ability. Improve the A.I. to make it more challenging instead of this superficial design.

Bubbles don't go through walls anymore though.

Improved AI does nothing if we can press a button to disable threats.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

40 minutes ago, Mesolimbo said:

If they want the game to be less ability-dependent, they could have improved the A.I. and added shooting over covers into the equation. Nullifier is a terrible game design. A lazy one. Instead they should have improved the A.I.

2 things

1. In warframe, movement is power, you are actually less likely to be killed if you bounce around like a madman. Not to mention the fact that DE has once said that they don't want warframe to be a cover shooter, and that they want players to use their movement. (This was a point that had me come to the forums and suggest a system that had the parkour maneuvers reduce enemy accuracy, the next update contained this change... Now, I'm not gonna say that they put my idea into the game because it was genius, I'm just going to heavily imply it, #selfawarenarcissism #imjokingdonthateonme #butnoreallythatreallyhappenedimsoproud #eveniftheygottheideafromelswhere)
2. Secondly, improving AI would have done nothing in the face of most 4th's, and infact, doesn't even come close to addressing the core problem of ability spam. Even if you hate nullifiers, they do more for combating ability spam than cover-shooting or improved AI would have.

[TheGrimCorsair]

I just shoot them with Sarpa and the Bullet Dance stance. Pops the bubble right quick (usually first attack+charge attack does it) and then just obliterate all the enemies inside. Plus, you can attack from far away as it's not like you're gonna miss a Nullifier bubble. Other than that, you can dive bubbles, especially overlapping ones, with Arca Titron pretty easily as the ground slam will stun everyone inside, giving you time to kill a Nullifier or two then jet away unscathed. Forcing fights against them in  hallways with low ceilings works wonders, too, as it'll take less time to actually pop the bubble with melee attacks (relatively easy to do from outside with most of the longer-reaching melee weapons as long as you don't go overboard with combos that have long distance movements in them).

When there's lots of Nullifiers and you're finding the situation overwhelming, well, that's the game telling you that fighting there isn't what you're supposed to be doing. Take the fight elsewhere, or focus on hitting and running. Bullet jumps, aim gliding, wall running, and dodge rolling will get through a lot of S#&$. You've got CC available for free care of your bullet jump and ground slam, so use 'em.

To the person above that says enemies don't take cover... yeah, they do. Especially if you leave 'em alive long enough. Thing is, Warframes are *fast.* Digging in against opponents that are as capable as we are out maneuvering and out flanking enemies is mostly setting yourself up die anyways. To draw on some recent comparisons, Grineer and Corpus units are, for the most part, playing a tactical shooter on the order of something like Rainbow 6 Siege, players are playing something more akin to Titanfall 2. The disparity in our capabilities is that ridiculous (and yes, necessary, given the overwhelming number of enemies we face).

[VoidWraith]

Remember how they said that nullifiers come with that drone, where if you just hit that drone, it cancels the bubble without having to go through the bubble's "health"? 
Well... I think the drone is positioned weirdly where you can't hit the drone since it seems to be inside the bubble... Wonder if this is a bug or a hosting issue or something..

[shut]

If you're deadset on using your melee instead of guns (which is 100% understandable, given the godawful weapon swap time in this game): one thing that I like to do is bulletjump directly into the bubble and groundslam the nullifier to prevent it from shooting your face off. Entering (and, if necessary, exiting) the bubble quickly will minimize the time you're all squishy and ability-less.

Just be careful not to "overextend". If the nully takes too long to die while you're in the bubble, it's better to bulletjump out and recast your defensive buffs than to kill the nully while all of its buddies shoot you from outside.