Plains of Eidolon: Facts & Fundamentals of Focus 2.0

[Kinetos]

As far as I can tell, Naramon offers absolutely nothing that helps in the Eidolon fight, unique to the active school. It buffs melee, which is pretty useless against Eidolons. 

Other schools all offer something, healing, energy, shared protection, damage buff, things not available in waybound passives. 

Am I wrong? Can Eidolons be confused and disarmed?

[SolarDwagon]

9 hours ago, Kinetos said:

As far as I can tell, Naramon offers absolutely nothing that helps in the Eidolon fight, unique to the active school. It buffs melee, which is pretty useless against Eidolons. 

Other schools all offer something, healing, energy, shared protection, damage buff, things not available in waybound passives. 

Am I wrong? Can Eidolons be confused and disarmed?

For the *current* eidolon fight, the only thing it offers is enhanced mobility, which is... not exactly important. However, current Naramon passives can be a great timesaver for some of the more efficient ways of focus farming.

[Evanescent]

I'd like operator-warframe interactions put in.

For example, here's a skill for the madurai tree:

 Skyfall:

Summon warframe to smash into the earth from above, delivering an aoe ground pound for massive damage at reticule.

Upgrade to any of :

1)Leave behind fire hazard (for cc)

2)Create rolling wave of fire scaling with enemies killed

3)Create singularity that sucks enemies in

 

 

[Insizer]

3 hours ago, Evanescent said:

I'd like operator-warframe interactions put in.

For example, here's a skill for the madurai tree:

 Skyfall:

Summon warframe to smash into the earth from above, delivering an aoe ground pound for massive damage at reticule.

Upgrade to any of :

1)Leave behind fire hazard (for cc)

2)Create rolling wave of fire scaling with enemies killed

3)Create singularity that sucks enemies in

When you mentioned this I immediately flashed back to Neir: Automata, specifically the air dashes where you grab your POD and without missing a beat have it throw you a distance.  It doesn't have to be the exact same, nor even mobility related, but synergies where both things are doing something at the same time would be pretty neat in warframe.  And I don't even care for operator mode than much.

Your idea is pretty neat, but there are some issues.  Specifically, dungeon crawler tiles like the grineer galleon and many corpus tiles don't have much head room to summon a warframe orbital-esque strike.  Why not have it summon right behind you, then jump and basically rhino charge to the reticle (a max of 20m maybe).  It could also be used to move your frame around so you can better set your respawn point for when (not if) you die as your operator from being in the open for more than a second in the middle of combat.

[Evanescent]

4 minutes ago, Insizer said:

When you mentioned this I immediately flashed back to Neir: Automata, specifically the air dashes where you grab your POD and without missing a beat have it throw you a distance.  It doesn't have to be the exact same, nor even mobility related, but synergies where both things are doing something at the same time would be pretty neat in warframe.  And I don't even care for operator mode than much.

Your idea is pretty neat, but there are some issues.  Specifically, dungeon crawler tiles like the grineer galleon and many corpus tiles don't have much head room to summon a warframe orbital-esque strike.  Why not have it summon right behind you, then jump and basically rhino charge to the reticle (a max of 20m maybe).  It could also be used to move your frame around so you can better set your respawn point for when (not if) you die as your operator from being in the open for more than a second in the middle of combat.

It's tossed as a rough idea. You can just have your warframe immediately materilise and have the explosion to simulate the impact. You need not see it fall from a great height.

Pretend it gathers velocity in hammerspace, haha.

[Insizer]

Just now, Evanescent said:

It's tossed as a rough idea. You can just have your warframe immediately materilise and have the explosion to simulate the impact. You need not see it fall from a great height.

Pretend it gathers velocity in hammerspace, haha.

fair enough

[(PSN)Hiei-YYH]

On 17/11/2017 at 10:12 PM, Insizer said:

Zenurik's energy acquisition was completely redone to make the operator actually serve "more" of a purpose.  Basically, invest (a metric butt-ton of focus) in Energizing Dash.  At max rank it gives you 5 energy/sec for 30 seconds, forcing you to stop combat every 30 seconds to maintain an active buff that pretends to be a passive.

Aside from literally its most important part, Zenurik is better because now it has actives that serve a purpose without harming its "passives".

We are now forced to stop playing the game to gain energy.

As for that operator ability... its gone.  But hey, you can turn your operator into a vacuum that shoots electricity.  Enjoy Focus 2.0.

is that it? so who thought leaving the wf in mid battle to recover energy was a good idea? wtf -_- great "passive" ability

[Kalvorax]

41 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiei-YYH said:

is that it? so who thought leaving the wf in mid battle to recover energy was a good idea? wtf -_- great "passive" ability

no that is not just it....nearly EVERYONE seems to be forgetting about the BASE zenurik passive of restoring up to 50% (at max rank) energy per energy orb...THAT STACKS with every energy orb...energy regen is through the roof when combined with Energizing Dash. so 25 orb would really be 37.5, 50 orb would be 75 and 100 orb would bet 150..at max rank of course.

I've personally gone from no energy all the way to 700+ within 10-15 seconds..though i DID have a ton of energy orbs around.

[(PSN)Hiei-YYH]

5 hours ago, Kalvorax said:

no that is not just it....nearly EVERYONE seems to be forgetting about the BASE zenurik passive of restoring up to 50% (at max rank) energy per energy orb...THAT STACKS with every energy orb...energy regen is through the roof when combined with Energizing Dash. so 25 orb would really be 37.5, 50 orb would be 75 and 100 orb would bet 150..at max rank of course.

I've personally gone from no energy all the way to 700+ within 10-15 seconds..though i DID have a ton of energy orbs around.

you said well, "when you have a ton of energy orbs around" but that's not always the case... especially in high level missions. So in the end you have to leave your wf in middle of fight breaking the pace of the battle. Sorry but this is just $&*&*#(%&. It was so good the way it were, why couldn't just have added the dash to help the squad, but no... let's f*** the one and only useful ability in zenurik school (beside the void blast that makes the enemy float in some difficult situations), DE why don't you remove everything and let only the energy dash, IT'S SO WONDERFUL and make player waste 99999999999999999999999999 focus points to reach max level :)

[Insizer]

6 hours ago, Kalvorax said:

no that is not just it....nearly EVERYONE seems to be forgetting about the BASE zenurik passive of restoring up to 50% (at max rank) energy per energy orb...THAT STACKS with every energy orb...energy regen is through the roof when combined with Energizing Dash. so 25 orb would really be 37.5, 50 orb would be 75 and 100 orb would bet 150..at max rank of course.

I've personally gone from no energy all the way to 700+ within 10-15 seconds..though i DID have a ton of energy orbs around.

Oh I know this, this is why i mentioned this true passive when saying "the energy regen is too damn high".  I've used Ember Prime during pre and post Focus 2.0. Pre would involve some, although relatively short, "recharge" period for her WoF when using this one build.  Post let me keep it up for a very long time and would have a very very short "recharge" period, when using the same build.  I'd like to say that the uptime was at least twice that of before (keep in mind I had rank 3 Energizing Dash and full rank energy orb passive, the name of which escapes me at the moment, at the time of this "testing").  I just don't get how blowing energy limitations out of the water is a good thing for this game, especially seeing as there are no ability cooldown timers.

[Insizer]

14 hours ago, (PS4)Hiei-YYH said:

is that it? so who thought leaving the wf in mid battle to recover energy was a good idea? wtf -_- great "passive" ability

They have said that they are looking at redoing Focus again, or at least that is what I've heard.

[darksithis002]

uh, it seems like there is either a cooldown before you can reactivate vaz's insta revives, or it's bugged, cuz i've had it activate, then use all 4, and either the rest of the match (couldn't get another 4) or close to the end they reapplied.

[VirtualViolet]

It's kinda funny how so many people are still complaining about Zenurik's Energizing Dash. It takes less than a second to activate, it's available on demand, and you can share it with your teammates. I don't see the problem here. (And yes, I used Zenurik before the change, too.)

One change that would make it amazing would be to let it counteract Parasitic and Energy Drain Eximus unit's auras. As it is, said auras completely cancel all energy regeneration on top of draining energy like mad. Might make melee channeling, which they seem to be trying to push with PoE, a little more viable.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

I love the zenurik now. What i dont love is having limited amounts of Eidolon enemies. Wish ther was a day Eidolon of sum kind, or we could farm lua sentients for cores... 

[Insizer]

On 12/3/2017 at 11:49 AM, VirtualViolet said:

It's kinda funny how so many people are still complaining about Zenurik's Energizing Dash. It takes less than a second to activate, it's available on demand, and you can share it with your teammates. I don't see the problem here. (And yes, I used Zenurik before the change, too.)

One change that would make it amazing would be to let it counteract Parasitic and Energy Drain Eximus unit's auras. As it is, said auras completely cancel all energy regeneration on top of draining energy like mad. Might make melee channeling, which they seem to be trying to push with PoE, a little more viable.

For me the activation of it is unreliable and cannot be used if looking anywhere close to 'down'.  Furthermore, I don't like having to keep stop and starting combat every 30 seconds to maintain an active buff.  The "sharing" aspect of Energizing Dash is certainly nice, but that has nothing to do with what people are angry about.

[VirtualViolet]

26 minutes ago, Insizer said:

For me the activation of it is unreliable and cannot be used if looking anywhere close to 'down'.  Furthermore, I don't like having to keep stop and starting combat every 30 seconds to maintain an active buff.  The "sharing" aspect of Energizing Dash is certainly nice, but that has nothing to do with what people are angry about.

My point was that it's not that disruptive, and you don't need to do it every 30 seconds, especially with the passive 50% extra energy per orb. If it takes you more than a second to pop in and out of operator mode to do a quick dash, you're not doing it right. It doesn't even have to slow you down if you're on the move, since Void Dash is usually faster than you're moving anyway (especially with Naramon's dash speed boost unlocked).

Yeah, it's not a permanent passive 4 energy per second, but I think the extra 1 energy/s, the fact you can share it, and the on-demand nature of it (as opposed to waiting for the cooldown at the start of every mission or host migration) more than makes up for the non-permanence.

The bug/gllitch of it not activating if the dash is too short (such as when looking down, as you mentioned) does need to be fixed, though. I can understand being frustrated with that.

[Insizer]

5 hours ago, VirtualViolet said:

My point was that it's not that disruptive, and you don't need to do it every 30 seconds, especially with the passive 50% extra energy per orb. If it takes you more than a second to pop in and out of operator mode to do a quick dash, you're not doing it right. It doesn't even have to slow you down if you're on the move, since Void Dash is usually faster than you're moving anyway (especially with Naramon's dash speed boost unlocked).

Yeah, it's not a permanent passive 4 energy per second, but I think the extra 1 energy/s, the fact you can share it, and the on-demand nature of it (as opposed to waiting for the cooldown at the start of every mission or host migration) more than makes up for the non-permanence.

The bug/gllitch of it not activating if the dash is too short (such as when looking down, as you mentioned) does need to be fixed, though. I can understand being frustrated with that.

1. The fact you can share energy regen with your allies has nothing to do with what upsets people with Energizing Dash, neither does the fact that you don't have to wait for a cooldown to gain the energy regen (which is actually the result of the general Focus 2.0 rework rather than Energizing Dash).  There is no one who disputes that these factors of Energizing Dash and Focus 2.0 are in fact better.  Both of these factors could easily be incorporated into something that could theoretically replace Energizing Dash.  What people have an issue with are solely how you get the energy regen (chore based active buff vs true passive) and to a lesser extent the amount of energy regen.
   • Also, for the record, you could grant allies energy with Zenurik 1.0 in two ways.  But no one ever used them because using more nodes directly penalized your performance.
2. I do need to do it every 30 seconds (or just about) not to fill up my tanks because I run them dry, but rather to keep the active buff going so that I don't have to worry nearly as much about my energy reserves.  I would rather prepare than react in terms of energy management, so that I can better react to situations in game.  I also don't like being interrupted, and I like focusing on the objective.  Playing "squatting ghost missile" with my operator takes me away from the game, redirects my focus, and makes me perform a chore in the middle of combat.  It isn't fun nor interactive, it is just distracting. The only way I can deal with these problems is by keeping the buff constant. 
3. So it doesn't slow me down with sprinting, but neither does a true passive.  If I need that extra kick of velocity then I can just become a ghost missile for just that purpose.  "Slowing you down" is completely irrelevant as it has nothing to do with Energizing Dash, only Void Dash, and it is unfounded as an argument because having or using Void Dash would not be prevented by having an actual energy regen passive.  
4. I said it is unreliable to activate because it misfires for me too often.  For one reason or another when I execute the commands (quickly thanks to my gaming mouse), have all the visual queues activate, and then immediately exit operator mode to get back to playing the actual game only to find Energizing Dash sometimes misfire.  When Energizing Dash misfires I'm then having to stop play the game again to then try executing this chore again, hoping it works.  I've had it misfire twice in row sometimes so I'm sitting here messing around with a character that is not cut out for combat in the least bit instead of playing the game just to get energy.  Also, me calling Energizing Dash unreliable goes further as I view that it is unable to work on its own.  It is unstable and needs to be propped up all the time, this does not give me as much confidence as say a true passive that is always there.  But that's just me.
   • I'm glad though that you agree that the issue whereby Energizing Dash does not activate if the dash is too short, is an actual problem.  But for me this problem only compounds my frustrations with this system.
5. Not once did someone ever say "You know what is the problem with Energy Overflow?  Its 4 energy/sec regen just isn't enough."  As a strict Zenurik devotee I can say that the old Energy Overflow's 4 energy/sec regen alone was/is more than enough, it was borderline overkill, and you can quote me on that.  Tack on the extra energy/orb passive and you will have more than you'll ever need.  But wait, there's more.  Instead of 4 energy/sec we now we can get 5 energy/sec (on top of that already deceptively powerful energy regen passive), by performing an annoying chore.  We gain more of an overabundance of energy at the cost of performing annoying distractions and playing micromanager with your operator.  How is this better than a simple actual passive energy regen?

This is not related to your post and I've already said this (not in this conversation with you), but it is worth repeating.  There was nothing wrong with having it be an actual passive in the first place.  Having a reliable energy income did not make the game mindless, our OP abilities did that.  If the energy regen of Energy Overflow truly was the problem, then how is even more energy regen any better?

[VirtualViolet]

4 hours ago, Insizer said:

-snip-

I am not arguing that a passive buff is worse than the current implementation. I am not of the opinion that Focus 2.0 is all fine and dandy. I am not trying to say that Energizing Dash is the best thing that ever happened to energy regeneration.

All I'm saying is that it is not so terrible that it warrants the outrage that so many seem to be expressing here. It is clear what DE's intention was here - to make the Focus abilities/buffs more dynamic and less fire-and-forget - and they're not going to budge on that aspect. I was also upset about the change to Zenurik at first, but after playing with it, I realized that it's not so bad, and like I said before, the additional functions, along with the passive of 50% extra energy from orbs, (I feel) make up for it no longer being a passive regen.

I still think tweaking the numbers a bit would be nice - maybe a longer duration or bigger bubble. And like I wrote earlier, some sort of Energy Drain Eximus mitigation would be fantastic.

tl;dr - Yes, there is room for improvement, but no, it's not outrageous.

[Insizer]

4 hours ago, VirtualViolet said:

I am not arguing that a passive buff is worse than the current implementation. I am not of the opinion that Focus 2.0 is all fine and dandy. I am not trying to say that Energizing Dash is the best thing that ever happened to energy regeneration.

All I'm saying is that it is not so terrible that it warrants the outrage that so many seem to be expressing here. It is clear what DE's intention was here - to make the Focus abilities/buffs more dynamic and less fire-and-forget - and they're not going to budge on that aspect. I was also upset about the change to Zenurik at first, but after playing with it, I realized that it's not so bad, and like I said before, the additional functions, along with the passive of 50% extra energy from orbs, (I feel) make up for it no longer being a passive regen.

I still think tweaking the numbers a bit would be nice - maybe a longer duration or bigger bubble. And like I wrote earlier, some sort of Energy Drain Eximus mitigation would be fantastic.

tl;dr - Yes, there is room for improvement, but no, it's not outrageous.

I'm glad that we are not that far in opinion then.  However, I do find it extremely annoying and needlessly bothersome, and believe expressing it as so is warranted in my opinion. 

They aimed to make it more interactive, more dynamic, but created something that is neither.  Interactive would mean that you sit down, think about how to act, and have the system response vary depending on your action and other controllable variables.  Dynamic would mean (roughly) lots of action going on at once.  Not only does this not involve variable feedback, but it takes you away from action.  It is nothing a repetitive chore that give no further depth to the game and only succeeds in further blowing the energy economy out of the water.  The rest of Zenurik can be considered as "making it more interactive and such" as the other active nodes give you a stun orb and an enemy vacuum, effectively giving you more abilities that can be used at your discretion, allowing you to pick and choose what time to use and obtain results based on your aim, timing, placement, the situation you use them, etc.

To me their bigger aim was to actually give you a reason to use the operator.  By erasing the penalties incurred by actually activating nodes they gave you a reason to select more than the most effective node (which was usually a passive).  By giving you decent actives they gave you a reason to actually activate the operator more than once.  But that is as far as they can go, making the operator nothing more than an ability dispenser for the warframe, as they will never be able to approach the effectiveness and such of a warframe.

I don't care about the "additional functions" as they could just have easily been bootstrapped to an actually passive buff.

If the devs dont want to make the bulk energy regen actually passive then they need to at least buff the duration of Energizing Dash to something like 2 minutes so that you can get some play time in before having to be stop and then start again.

In the end, Energizing Dash is not fun to me and actually takes away from the fun, why shouldn't I express this?

 

EDIT: I know in the beginning of my posts (going back a few pages) I was nothing short of toxically abrasive, for which I do apologize, there was no reason for me to fly that far off the hinges.  Nonetheless, I feel making this an active passive is a very wrong move.

 

Also, to the devs on another note.  If you are going to preserve Energizing Dash then Void Dashing while looking down needs to produce Energizing Dash.  I can confirm that it is not tied to the distance of the dash thanks to testing.  For testing, I Void Dashed into a wall while right up against it.  This would consistently produce the Energizing Dash aura.  I believe the issue is tied to the angle downward from the horizon you are looking.  This is a particularly annoying problem because there are many times when you need that energy regen, but do not want to relocate (like when you are defending an objective and such)