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[DE]Rebecca

Plains of Eidolon: Facts & Fundamentals of Focus 2.0

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4 minutes ago, Dark-Vortex said:

OK so Naramon loses, at worst, 5 combo ticks per second rather than, say, 1300 instantly.

So Naramon is now extremely potent. Great.

What about Zenurik? Melee channeling is still a joke.

I wonder if it also added damage...

At max rank: 1,5x... additive,

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1 minute ago, Dark-Vortex said:

What about Zenurik? Melee channeling is still a joke.

I feel like this is an opening to a channeling rework in the future. They have a lot on their plate right now. If we beg for things and rush em into it, the content may suffer flaws. They have done great with this update so far and everything is prone to change.

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18 minutes ago, plinkoo said:

I feel like this is an opening to a channeling rework in the future. They have a lot on their plate right now. If we beg for things and rush em into it, the content may suffer flaws. They have done great with this update so far and everything is prone to change.

An opening only if you complain and request better in the first place. Don't confuse this with "rushing em"(and how long has channeling been around? Its had a long gap between introduction through now to have been improved. It needed this a long time ago.). I also don't agree that this Focus update is "great". The only seemingly great things thus far about the general PoE update are other things, like the open world expansion, weapon crafting, new frame and skin.

Edited by UrielColtan
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13 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

An opening only if you complain and request better in the first place. Don't confuse this with "rushing em"(and how long has channeling been around? Its had a long gap between introduction through now to have been improved. It needed this a long time ago.). I also don't agree that this Focus update is "great". The only seemingly great things thus far about the general PoE update are other things, like the open world expansion, weapon crafting, new frame and skin.

No lie, mate, I am rather indecently enthused about the new Naramon Residual. Look at it. Look at it.

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42 minutes ago, Dark-Vortex said:

What about Zenurik? Melee channeling is still a joke.

37 minutes ago, plinkoo said:

I feel like this is an opening to a channeling rework in the future.

 

The DEvs already said as much during one of the streams when they were showing off the new Focus system--that they decided to go with channeling stuff because they plan on reworking the Channeling system very Soon™ but they weren't sure if the Focus buffs would be too powerful or not with it, so they went a little conservative.

I'm interested to see what changes they'll make to try and get Channeling to be relevant/pertinent to the combat flow, and worth dropping mods into....

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2 hours ago, WaylanderG said:

that's because most people are selfish. But when im running with a noob or clan member i happily play support role. true there is some team spirit on endless missions but generally you find it's every tenno fir him/her self unfortunately. I'm not saying everyone is but they are a rare a precious few that do have the team spirit. 

Yes, people are so selfish, farming Focus points, which favor killing and are not shared amongst the team like regular affinity points. Let's encourage that DE create more self fulfilling prophecy dilemmas to criticize players over.

Edited by UrielColtan
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4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a quick update here for the post for everyone concerning Naramon!

And while the melee bonus is appreciated... what happened to making Naramon the "rogue" tree?

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24 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

No lie, mate, I am rather indecently enthused about the new Naramon Residual. Look at it. Look at it.

How is caring about one ability in a school, yet again, a great update?

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2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

1.... unless you have some timer going to get it at EXACTLY 30 seconds all while having the perfect moment to eject etc, ie not in the middle of killing stuff, then yes it could quite easily take over 5 seconds to do the process to give you the energy regen again.  What the dev's are showing us and how it actually ends up for the players in game is not always the same, the dev's are doing very specific things during their video's to ensure a 'positive' viewing experience is put forward.  You've also just shown how 'pointless' the process is if you're 'literally just have to void dash and then press 5 again..... why even have it if that's all you're going to do.

2.... not so sure this mechanism will be quicker than popping an energy pizza or 2, they're relatively cheap for 'end game players'.  1 pizza gives and instant 100 energy the instant it's put down...it would take 20 seconds for the same amount from the regen and assuming the dev's have continued with the same restrictions as current zenurik, frames which 'require' the energy pizza won't be able to get the regen if they end up pressing their 4.

3... I'm not quite sure you're seeing my point on this one....

4... um you do realise those 'players' (warframe stream partners in reality) trying to get a feel for it had an excessive amount of focus at their disposal so could basically level out each focus tree (which they did, they couldn't share tress due to lacking an eidolon shard)....

  1. You mean like how many warframes already have to manage their buff timers? This is a non-argument. As for "why even have it", maybe it's because they don't want us to stop thinking about our energy and managing it, and also because it allowed them to create a squad-wide benefit that doesn't rely on people not being selfish. And honestly, do you really think that Prime Time and guest streamers were a "best foot forward" situation? DE are remarkable for their transparency in situations like this. It was not scripted. It was barely planned. It was full of bugs, and each time something stupid happened, someone would cheerfully sing "dev build~!"
  2. They cost 900 credits, 300 nanospores, and 50 polymer bundles apiece, and at the rate I see them used, they are not cheap for anybody. As for players who mash 4 at the start of the mission and mindlessly run to extraction while channeling World on Fire and the like, watch me not care what they want! :laugh: I'll just run back and revive them when their nonsense stops working, and be on my way. They can spend as many resources on energy restores as they want. Doesn't make it any less of a bad idea to use them habitually.
  3. Then would you care to explain? You said "this is just going to benefit frames like ember etc who have always on abilities active". I pointed out that the opposite is most likely true — that it's extra energy former Energy Overflow users will have that they didn't have before. And it won't benefit people who couldn't use Energy Overflow in the first place, because if DE "didn't think of that", then that means it works exactly like every other energy regen ability because they didn't change it. In reality, they most likely did think of that, which is why it's regen rather than a straight multiplier to energy pickups. So, what do you think I missed, and what point were you trying to make?
  4. Are you implying that they aren't players because they're partners? :crylaugh: Don't be ridiculous. Do you even understand how the partner program works? They aren't DE employees. Even if they were (and Rebb and Meg obviously are), they'd still be players, so the scare quotes and sarcasm are unnecessary. And how does that relate to what I said, anyway? They literally just got their hands on it for the first time. Focus points aside, do you really think they would have already mastered the system? It was a developer build showcase, not a strategy guide.
2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

When was the last time you actually saw someone use a purely support frame like trinity in a public match.... it's very rare to see one because most people in the game are more focused on killing stuff rather than being the support frame.

I saw a few Trinities last night, just hanging out in Hydron and Akkad. Yes, a few. As in more than one, across multiple missions. And Trinity is really not the point. The point is that operators have the potential to cover for areas where frames are lacking, and I thought the ability to add CC and damage to what is normally a pure support frame was the perfect example. I could just as easily have said Banshee with Vazarin can block damage, make herself and allies invulnerable, and revive without stopping the constant movement that keeps her alive. With Naramon, she can leverage Savage Silence without having to circle back when her stun wears off, highlight enemies in the environment (yes, this is actually better than the minimap) for snap tactical decisions, and now improve her melee with a more persistent combo counter, replacing that mod. Rhino with Unairu can stealth (Hear me, all you "I'm bringing Rhino to a sortie spy mission" jerks? Stop running through the lasers!), and protect more than just himself, while also bolstering his armor and Iron Skin.

2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

It's also all very well you saying use x focus school with y frame but you do realise that requires focus points for each of those schools.... many players have only focused on one school so will be stuck with their original choice unless they get more lenses and as such start from zero again.

No it doesn't. It requires you to decide which school adds the most valuable powers that are missing from one or more of your favourite frames, and pick that one. And yeah, there's gonna be farming. I've got something like 7-8 million points across all schools, and I plan to continue developing all of them. On the other hand, if people seriously just plat-rushed into maxing out Energy Overflow or Shadow Step, and kept the lenses to max out Zenurik or Naramon while ignoring the rest of the schools, that's their own dumb fault. And I would be quite surprised if they didn't already have more lenses, considering how often sorties hand them out. Most of us have quite a few weapons and/or frames by the time we're using focus. There was ample opportunity to install other lenses on various equipment used for different mission types, and passively gain focus while doing sorties, invasions, and trials. The fact that some people have nothing in 4/5 schools, despite having unlocked focus on the day Second Dream landed, is just so silly that it's hard to conjure any sympathy.

Edited by DreamsmithJane

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12 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

How is caring about one ability in a school, yet again, a great update?

The joke is that my loyalty is very easily bought with a gloriously useful band-aid effect which means that melee suddenly just works better with the Naramon School.

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10 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

The joke is that my loyalty is very easily bought with a gloriously useful band-aid effect which means that melee suddenly just works better with the Naramon School.

...that's a really sweet residual though!

I can't even be mad at you.

That's the kind of thing I wanted to see from this focus rework.

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35 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

Yes, people are so selfish, farming Focus points, which favor killing and are not shared amongst the team like regular affinity points. Let's encourage DE create more self fulfilling prophecy dilemmas to criticize players over.

But they are...

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13 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

The joke is that my loyalty is very easily bought with a gloriously useful band-aid effect which means that melee suddenly just works better with the Naramon School.

Hey, if you wanna melee DPS, you pick the rogue, right?

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48 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

But they are...

Yes, because that's why convergence and daily caps exist.

Edited by UrielColtan

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54 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

snip

And there stops the point in even trying to argue an alternative viewpoint with you....

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11 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

Yes, because that's why convergence and daily caps exist.

That has nothing to do with what you said...

1 hour ago, UrielColtan said:

Yes, people are so selfish, farming Focus points, which favor killing and are not shared amongst the team like regular affinity points. Let's encourage that DE create more self fulfilling prophecy dilemmas to criticize players over.

All convergence does is boost the gain. Caps? Syndicate Rep have caps, remember Viver gate. We have Caps so ppl dont go and farm everything at once.

Those have nothing to do with "Focus is not shared like affinity".

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1 hour ago, UrielColtan said:

Yes, people are so selfish, farming Focus points, which favor killing and are not shared amongst the team like regular affinity points. Let's encourage that DE create more self fulfilling prophecy dilemmas to criticize players over.

 

21 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

Yes, because that's why convergence and daily caps exist.

Um, yeah, convergence is just a multiplier. It works on passive/shared affinity gains, too. Focus point gains are directly tied to affinity. When you gain affinity for a max rank weapon or frame that has a lens, it's converted into focus points. That is the entire and only way to gain focus points. They're not just "like" regular affinity points. They are affinity, as applied to lens-upgraded equipment.

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44 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

That has nothing to do with what you said...

All convergence does is boost the gain. Caps? Syndicate Rep have caps, remember Viver gate. We have Caps so ppl dont go and farm everything at once.

Those have nothing to do with "Focus is not shared like affinity".

 

 

Syndicates are not like normal affinity either, and you have syndicate missions on top of that.

Syndicates also have things that are worth more of my time, Focus 2.0 is expecting us to farm millions of points to even use shared nodes or make the operator at all survivable.

And what do you mean nothing to do with not being shared like normal affinity? I am not restricted to leveling a certain amount of weapons a day. You also don't get any boost in focus points from someone else picking up a convergence orb, and even if you pick one up yourself, its not going to do you much good if you are not personally killing before the timer runs out. I've routinely picked up convergence and gotten zero points focus from it due to a Banshee and Saryn killing the enemies before I could, and these were small maps. So unless my games have apparently been bugged through those recent farms, this is what we have.

I  also don't get any gains from their lens either.

Edited by UrielColtan

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10 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

 

Um, yeah, convergence is just a multiplier. It works on passive/shared affinity gains, too. Focus point gains are directly tied to affinity. When you gain affinity for a max rank weapon or frame that has a lens, it's converted into focus points. That is the entire and only way to gain focus points. They're not just "like" regular affinity points. They are affinity, as applied to lens-upgraded equipment.

Focus was always connected to affinity, it just was not shared even on debut. There were plenty of threads about this problem.

Edited by UrielColtan

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16 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

 

Syndicates are not like normal affinity either, and you have syndicate missions on top of that.

Syndicates also have things that are worth more of my time, Focus 2.0 is expecting us to farm millions of points to even use shared nodes or make the operator at all

Just so we are clear on that: YOUR time. That is subjective and has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

18 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

And what do you mean nothing to do with not being shared like normal affinity? I am not restricted to leveling a certain amount of weapons a day.

No, you were the one saying it was not shared like normal affinity,

2 hours ago, UrielColtan said:

Yes, people are so selfish, farming Focus points, which favor killing and are not shared amongst the team like regular affinity points. Let's encourage that DE create more self fulfilling prophecy dilemmas to criticize players over.

get your facts straight.

20 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

You also don't get any boost in focus points from someone else picking up a convergence orb, and even if you pick one up yourself, its not going to do you much good if you are not personally killing before the timer runs out. I've routinely picked up convergence and gotten zero points focus from it due to a Banshee and Saryn killing the enemies before I could, and these were small maps. So unless my games have apparently been bugged through those recent farms, this is what we have.

Of course you dont... it has been like this since it was implemented, just move to grab it.

And again, a lot of Focus farmers go to Hydron and cheer when a Saryn using Spores or a Quakeshee is in game because they are getting shared affinity.

I believe you have no idea how the conversion from affinity to Focus points works. If you are using only 1 weapon with a lens and has a full loadout, only 25% of the affinity goes to it, and even less goes to Focus. That is why people who farm are either: using the lens on the Warframe andusing only 1 weapon with a Lens, or have a lens in every single item they bring so all shared affinity goes to them.

If you are using a lens on a weapon only and activades and stays in a Channeling ability like Exalted Blade, Hysteria, Razorwing, all shared affinity goes to the Warframe.

26 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

I  also don't get any gains from their lens either.

... of course you dont, their lens is equipped on THEIR equipment.

 

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16 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

only 25% of the affinity goes to it, and even less goes to Focus.

6 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

.. of course you dont, theirens is equipped on THEIR equipment.

So not like normal affinity then.

 

16 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

And again, a lot of Focus farmers go to Hydron and cheer when a Saryn using Spores or a Quakeshee is in game because they are getting shared affinity.

Are people playing a different game or something, because i have looked at guides and I go to the same Hydron node with lensed frame and get no focus convergence points from that. So either focus convergence is actually a hindrance, or something is bugged in my games. I've also been rather taken aback by people saying Shadowstep is too OP, as I can never even get it to proc and I have maxed Shadowstep and deadly intent. I always thought it was useless or must have required an arcane set.

Edited by UrielColtan

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3 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

So not like normal affinity then.

 

Are people playing a different game or something, because I go to the same map with lensed frame and get no focus convergence points from that. So either focus convergence is actually a hindrance, or something is bugged in my games. I've also been rather taken a back by people saying Shadowstep is too OP, as I can never even get it to proc and I have maxed Shadow lstep and dealy intent. I always thought it was useless or must have required an arcane.

Ok, so, let's be super clear about this: If that is how your game has been performing then yes, it is bugged.

 

Shadow Step works.

Shared Affinity being converted into Focus works.

That is how it is for the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of players. I am not joking. If you want, I'll come online and we'll go do a mission and I'll show you several straight minutes of invisibility as Ember using Shadow Step, and in the mission report screen I'll show you my sidearm picking up Focus points from your kills.

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Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

Ok, so, let's be super clear about this: If that is how your game has been performing then yes, it is bugged.

 

Shadow Step works.

Shared Affinity being converted into Focus works.

That is how it is for the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of players. I am not joking. If you want, I'll come online and we'll go do a mission and I'll show you several straight minutes of invisibility as Ember using Shadow Step, and in the mission report screen I'll show you my sidearm picking up Focus points from your kills.

That's fine, I am at work right now however. How does one even get shadow step to proc, have used near every high crit melee weapon and build I have, and nothing, for as long as I have had it, tried pressing 5 before and everything.

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Just now, UrielColtan said:

That's fine, I am at work right now however. How does one even get shadow step to proc, have used near every high crit melee weapon and build I have, and nothing, for as long as I have had it, tried pressing 5 before and everything.

Allow me to channel tech support for a moment: "Have you tried switching it off and then on again?"

 

Or, in other words, is the node actually powered 'On' in your Focus screen? You know on the white parchmenty background Focus tree screen, is the Shadow Step node coloured red and lit up and linked to the central node by a red line?

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