Plains of Eidolon: Facts & Fundamentals of Focus 2.0

[Colyeses]

On ‎29‎-‎9‎-‎2017 at 9:48 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

On the public build Energy Overflow worked passively for a single player, and we are experimenting with an active, more powerful party-wide buff.

That's all well and good, but I'm pretty damn sure unless Energy Overflow gets an equivalent from somewhere, a LOT of warframes are going to plummet in usage, and no, the 1 second self-stun to hop out of warframe and the 1 second to hop back in to create a stationary regen buff that is -probably- still going to be blocked by channelled abilities will not fill this role.. Casters do not need more nerfs incoming, and with a few of them being somewhat dependent on Zenurik, this is going to bite. Hard.

The more you guys are revealing about the reworks around PoE, the more my anticipation for this update turns to dread because it seems you can't stop taking potshots at my playstyle.

[UrielColtan]

 

7 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

You know, I was ready to deliver this big rant about how people keep misinterpreting things, taking changes out of context, and declaring how broken they'll be without this other change that is also happening, but I figured, nah, they don't really need me to do that. Guess that wasn't entirely true. Focus 2.0 is an operator rework. This thread explains what's happening to the passives (now "residuals") that people have focused on in the old system, and gives vague scenarios to explain how operators can contribute to normal gameplay (in lieu of some of the passives being removed) in the new system. Declaring that those scenarios can't work in the old system is both obvious and irrelevant. There is a lot of information we don't have yet, and it is incredibly asinine to assume that they would declare their intention to make operators more capable as warriors, and then change none of the things that they explicitly acknowledged to be problematic in the old system.

So I say again, Focus 2.0 is not reliant on the operator to achieve some other purpose. The operator is its purpose. The rest is a compromise to appease people who resent the fact that operators exist at all, and who want Focus to serve warframes.

 

You seem to be a fan of using semantics to cover mistakes and to rebuff the nuance that otherwise makes this an uncomplicated affair.  As someone, along with many others, who were anticipating Focus well before Second Dream was even a thing, being attached to the Warframe and making affinity points usable for a more zen Warframe state beyond merely the level 30 system, is what it should have been made more about, not less, nor relegated more to these random inhibited child inserts. Its a real Cousin Oliver move, shoehorning them and making Focus mainly about them.

You want to get mad at people "assuming" the Tenno will have inhibited mobility, but you are just otherwise assuming the contrary under the illusion that they must keep it a "surprise"(Which they really shouldn't, movement is a basic fundamental.), you don't know for sure, so its best to highlight this as an issue either way, so that we make sure it is happening, gets resolved eventually or so we can offer alternative options if it isn't ready(Launch Cetus without it for now.). Even if you want to say that the Tenno are made faster(Not guaranteed fast enough if still so much slower than the Warframe.), the fact that they inhibit otherwise simple processes and offer no substantial alternative, such as what is being reinforced in the OP, is still there. The name of the game being "Warframe" is also still there, and thats what it should be about in the first place. My Warframe should not be standing frozen in dev pose taking damage while I switch to operator, it needs to at the very least be following me while I am in Operator mode and assisting me with different moves, Jojo Style. Thats really one of the big things, among mobility that will make many people want to bother using an Operator at all, granting the Warframe abilities it otherwise wouldn't use if you were still safely tucked inside the Frame, not these lame "residuals" or boring processes for Kuva Guard-esque fighting as is being alluded with the Teralysis. "Residuals" should be activated the way it is now and not merely about moving numbers or having to stand still.

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, Vorcov said:

Anyway, the way I have always personally seen Focus Schools, were as Martial Arts schools. I trained in a traditional Wing Chun school for a few years, and I was looking forward to seeing what the Operators were able to do. The focus rework makes sense to me, as it is a Tenno school, not a Warframe school. Sure, it's nice being able to empower the Warframe from your Tenno abilities, but I agree that it should be focused mainly around the Operator. With the abilities we unlock during The War Within, I was starting to feel that having a supernatural Martial Artist would become a possibility (thoughts of Dragon Ball Z crossed my mind, teleporting around, blasting enemies with energy and such, with hopes of being able to hover in mid-air etc.).

This is how I see it also.  

[PsiWarp]

So let me get this straight...

Second Dream - Ghost Operator, Residuals come first? Introduction to Focus farming with Lenses?

War Within - Focus 2.0 Operator, access to Kuva Siphon and Sorties, emphasis on Operator stats via Universal Passives, Active modifications to Void Blast, Void Mode, and Void Dash.

Plains of Eidolon, Quills faction - Combat Operator, opens possibility to kill Teralyst, emphasis on Void Beam ala hand-gun and Arcanes enhancing various Operator and Warframe attributes.

Sound about right?

[UrielColtan]

 

1 hour ago, Vorcov said:

Anyway, the way I have always personally seen Focus Schools, were as Martial Arts schools. I trained in a traditional Wing Chun school for a few years, and I was looking forward to seeing what the Operators were able to do. The focus rework makes sense to me, as it is a Tenno school, not a Warframe school. Sure, it's nice being able to empower the Warframe from your Tenno abilities, but I agree that it should be focused mainly around the Operator. With the abilities we unlock during The War Within, I was starting to feel that having a supernatural Martial Artist would become a possibility (thoughts of Dragon Ball Z crossed my mind, teleporting around, blasting enemies with energy and such, with hopes of being able to hover in mid-air etc.).

And yet, the Tenno needed Warframes to make those schools, because they were stuck in cryostasis. You must be late, but Warframes were called Tenno, even by people who were unaware of the moon children. What Warframe is capable of is already ideal for what the operator should do, little mystery there, just have the Tenno grow up, wear them as suits, and give the Warframes extra abilities, because thats what I came here to play. The kids aren't even aesthetically pleasing yet, let alone as appealing as the Warframes they use.

[DatDarkOne]

18 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

And yet, the Tenno needed Warframes to make those schools, because they were stuck in cryostasis. You must be late, but Warframes were called Tenno, even by people who were unaware of the moon children. What Warframe is capable of is already ideal for what the operator should do, little mystery there, just have the Tenno grow up, wear them as suits, and give the Warframes extra abilities, because thats what I came here to play. The kids aren't even aesthetically pleasing yet, let alone as appealing as the Warframes they use.

Hold up there fellow tenno.  You need to correct the way you posted that.  Those aren't my words at all.  I just agreed that I see it in a similar fashion.  

those were not my words at all.  

[BlueberryIsWar]

27 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

And yet, the Tenno needed Warframes to make those schools, because they were stuck in cryostasis. You must be late, but Warframes were called Tenno, even by people who were unaware of the moon children. What Warframe is capable of is already ideal for what the operator should do, little mystery there, just have the Tenno grow up, wear them as suits, and give the Warframes extra abilities, because thats what I came here to play. The kids aren't even aesthetically pleasing yet, let alone as appealing as the Warframes they use.

What? No, those aren't suits, they are filled with infested flesh, thinking about how messed up the orokin were probably soldiers they infested to enhance them. The queen called them "Infested puppets", Alad V also had a similiar line in his threats. So the operators certainly couldn't just wear them.

[UrielColtan]

6 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Hold up there fellow tenno.  You need to correct the way you posted that.  Those aren't my words at all.  I just agreed that I see it in a similar fashion.  

those were not my words at all.  

Sorry, editing the header after quoting is not as readily accessible, and since you agreed, I didn't think you would have a problem with that there.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

Any news from Space Mom today?

Other than the feral cat is gonna be a thing, no news. Monday best guess.

[UrielColtan]

11 minutes ago, BlueberryIsWar said:

What? No, those aren't suits, they are filled with infested flesh, thinking about how messed up the orokin were probably soldiers they infested to enhance them. The queen called them "Infested puppets", Alad V also had a similiar line in his threats. So the operators certainly couldn't just wear them.

Look, I am not new to the game. I know they are not suits....now.  Thats how they were presented before though,"Suit to kill" "exosuits", and I'm just saying the Tenno should wear Warframe material as suits themselves, as its more appealing apparel and offers different abilities. 

[Kaotyke]

45 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

So let me get this straight...

Second Dream - Ghost Operator, Residuals come first? Introduction to Focus farming with Lenses?

War Within - Focus 2.0 Operator, access to Kuva Siphon and Sorties, emphasis on Operator stats via Universal Passives, Active modifications to Void Blast, Void Mode, and Void Dash.

Plains of Eidolon, Quills faction - Combat Operator, opens possibility to kill Teralyst, emphasis on Void Beam ala hand-gun and Arcanes enhancing various Operator and Warframe attributes.

Sound about right?

Seems so, according to the Devs there is not a lot of time between TSD and TWW, so...

The Warframes get the Residuals, which seems to be only 2 (enough to occupy the new players from Neptune to Sedna), but I wonder what will be the point of summoning the Ghostrator, maybe they will keep the basic ability?

Then comes TWW, more of the Trees are unlocked. And can be refined in both the Tree and the Plains.

That is what I understood.

[DatDarkOne]

Just now, UrielColtan said:

Sorry, editing the header after quoting is not as readily accessible, and since you agreed, I didn't think you would have a problem with that there.

Thanks for correcting that.  I'm a little anal about being quoted correctly.  It's a hold over from what I do on the job in real life.  While I agree with his statement, I don't want his exact words attributed to me.  I do appreciate you changing it.  

Thank you again.  :D

 

[phoenix1992]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

Thanks for correcting that.  I'm a little anal about being quoted correctly.  It's a hold over from what I do on the job in real life.  While I agree with his statement, I don't want his exact words attributed to me.  I do appreciate you changing it.  

Thank you again.  :D

 

You are a little... what?

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

You are a little... what?

Or anal retentive. Some just say "anal" for short. Lol

 

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, phoenix1992 said:

You are a little... what?

sorry.  That was short for "anal retentive".  :D

[phoenix1992]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

sorry.  That was short for "anal retentive".  :D

*obligatory Uranus joke*

 

[DatDarkOne]

3 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

*obligatory Uranus joke*

 

LOL

[Jicematoro]

15 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Except that Killing Blow and Corrupt Charge exist, and there are weapons with more than 50% bonus channeling damage. Besides, even if you think Naramon's bonus is better (there's a lot we don't know about how and when that bonus is applied; damage "on melee kills" leaves several open questions, and might be a typo anyway), nobody should be picking a focus school just for one single residual effect. Finally, it's easily possible for the bonuses provided by Zenurik to outpace the cost of channeling (in my experience, they already often do), which would make Zenurik's version effectively cost less than "no energy".

I'm not saying channeling is good or doesn't need work, but it's hardly useless.

You are not gonna run Either of those in a world with Blood Rush, Maiming Strike, Drifting Contact/Body Count , P/Pressure Point, Condition Overload, Spoiled Strike, Organ Shatter, Berserker, P/Fury, and in some cases Weeping Wounds, P/Reach, Life Strike and Healing Return; Melee Space is limited.

Notice I didn't even get to add the Status mods, you know, Staples of most builds.

Absolutely all of these are better options than Killing Blow and Corrupt Charge, even for the what, 1? 2? Weapons that have 1.8 as their default Channeling damage.

A Tenno far enough into the game to grind for Focus is also far enough into the game to have most, if not all of these mods, or at least far enough to grind Platinum to buy them.

Honestly, not being useless is not an excuse for not being good. The fact that Zenurik players are getting this, in the words of the Mighty No. 9 translator, "Better than nothing" Passive is just SAD. Even worse when you consider Zenurik is the first or second most popular School, feels like punishing the player for their investment, and if that's the case, it's such an anti-consumer move you'd think this was EA.

Edit: Also.

Quote

Nobody should be picking a focus school just for one single residual effect.

Who are you to say this? Who are you to regulate the decisions of the people that waste hours and hours grinding?

What if I don't like the Operator, but I want the Passives? Should I be like "Welp, I don't like the Operator mode, so I'm oficially not allowed to work my cheeks for hours to obtain the passive I would like, That'll teach me"

[PsiWarp]

18 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Seems so, according to the Devs there is not a lot of time between TSD and TWW, so...

The Warframes get the Residuals, which seems to be only 2 (enough to occupy the new players from Neptune to Sedna), but I wonder what will be the point of summoning the Ghostrator, maybe they will keep the basic ability?

Then comes TWW, more of the Trees are unlocked. And can be refined in both the Tree and the Plains.

That is what I understood.

Indeed. I hope the Ghost Op powers are kept as they are, with the Focus cooldown thing severely reduced to maybe a minute between activations (if we still get the temp. invulnerability). The Ghost Op effects themselves aren't too shabby, they've saved me and my team plenty of times when in a pinch.

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

I've already said it once but there is an easy solution to Zenurik:

-Romove the channeling passive 

-Insert "30% power efficiency for the duration of the mission"

-leave the cap at 75% efficiency 

It checks all the boxes that people are complaining about and more!

-energy regen will not be tied to a school, thus open to all

-fits the Zenurik is "Mage" theme by encouraging casting 

-allows better build diversity for casters and power hungry builds

-will help new players who want to use their abilities more but may lack Streamline/Fleeting or the knowledge on how to build with and around those mods properly

-will not be so powerful that it even comes close to mandatory

No one channels unless healing, and even then there are more efficient methods to heal one's self.

It doesn't even fit the theme of the school!!!

 

I'm not worried about operator movement right now. Not until I see operator combat. THEN I'll raise the pitchforks.

Right now I do see a school (one of the most used) with an absolutely offensive passive.

A trash tier passive! Worse than all the others.

It needs to be adjusted before launch.

20 pages + of echo chamber comments concerning something that we remain mostly ignorant on isn't going to help. Worse, it's a waste of time and dilutes the thread.

Stop with the ego feeding 3,000 word essays and give clear and concise suggestions.

Operator movement 1.0 is obviously going to be changed in some way. I can't see DE expecting us to engage a 50ft tall monster as a 12 year-old who runs 1.2 mph.

Focus on what can be adjusted from the information presented!

[BornWithTeeth]

13 minutes ago, (Xbox One)INe Saninus said:

I'm not worried about operator movement right now. Not until I see operator combat. THEN I'll raise the pitchforks.

Operator movement 1.0 is obviously going to be changed in some way. I can't see DE expecting us to engage a 50ft tall monster as a 12 year-old who runs 1.2 mph.

 

Look, I like DE, but that is in fact exactly the kind of thing which they would do. Please recall what just happened with the final fight in the quest for the Harrow Warframe.

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Look, I like DE, but that is in fact exactly the kind of thing which they would do. Please recall what just happened with the final fight in the quest for the Harrow Warframe.

...fair enough. Lol

[phoenix1992]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Look, I like DE, but that is in fact exactly the kind of thing which they would do. Please recall what just happened with the final fight in the quest for the Harrow Warframe.

Please recall what happens in level 80+ kuva floods if you try to solo them.

It ain't pretty <3

[DatDarkOne]

7 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Please recall what happens in level 80+ kuva floods if you try to solo them.

It ain't pretty <3

this might not prove your point exactly.  I solo Kuva Flood specifically because it's way easier to do solo.  In many cases even faster.  Just saying.  :D

[phoenix1992]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

this might not prove your point exactly.  I solo Kuva Flood specifically because it's way easier to do solo.  In many cases even faster.  Just saying.  :D

Rogues don't count.
Or good players.