Archwing Launcher is prohibitively expensive

[Desdemona-XI]

2 minutes ago, Twelvelight said:

FFS People.. How long have u played this for free? Get real.. ofc they need to get money somewhere, if u dont like it. Use Titiana.. -*- Ofc this would prob jock up some of your weekend warrior wannabee's ...

Ive been here for 3 years. and the only thing i can say about this update i dont like that isnt bug related. is the expense of charges. because that isnt netting DE money and somewhat lessens my idea of hopping in and out of archwing freely. but it wont affect me playing plains because skywing is inherently limited in the first place for balancing reasons.

[BoomyGordo]

3 minutes ago, Desdemona-XI said:

You my friend have an opness fetish and should go play Doom with god mode on or something.

[Xarteros]

Just now, Desdemona-XI said:

firstly I think Zenurik's changes are Fair and I am a zenurik user. because now focus abilties have no cooldown which is something you rabid morons are missing. I can start using my zenurik energy as soon as i drop into a mission. I dont have to deactivate abilities to get it out in 180 seconds. i can load it up to the brim and use it all in 10 seconds with the time taken for the landing animation. ofcourse abiltities you can only use once every five minutes will be powerful. but you want that power in the first second for free? who the heck are you kidding? 

 

Secondly warframes always have and always will have the point where they cant develop further. they are machines. potential is fixxed and limited. and as it is your rank 30 excalibur can shred level 150 bombards like butter. and you want the warframes to develop further? You my friend have an opness fetish and should go play Doom with god mode on or something.

You might be happy with Zenurik, but that doesn't make it fair. Because it was popular before, it has higher costs for things without actually being better than the other powers. As it stands, Madurai is basically the most useful school, because it gives you 25% more damage from ALL sources, and that's quite cheap to max out (since it's the first two nodes), and you get efficiency and extra damage, which are two really key things for the new content.

And lol, you really eat up Grineer Propaganda.

You realise Warframes aren't machines right? They're mechanically augmented organisms. They bleed. They can get infections and suffer from toxins. They live. According to the lore, they are actually sentient in their own right, but just mentally weak and have no guidance, so we shepherd them the same way the Lotus shepherds us. That doesn't matter though, because DE said that Focus was our endgame system, and now they've silently redacted that statement. That's the issue here.

The reason DE gave us an endgame system is because everyone wanted one. It was meant to be a way to show how much you have mastered your favourite frames, beyond simply levelling them to 30 a few times. The community didn't want it as a power spike, because there wasn't (and still isn't) any worthwhile content that actually needs you to be able to do more damage. There isn't any better reward for wave 200 of a defence than there is at wave 20. People wanted an endgame to give you a bit more customisation, like alternate abilities for your warframe, or overarching skills to improve quality of life. We sort of got that, in a sense, but it wasn't fair or fun. Removing the system nearly in its entirety wasn't a way to fix the issue.

Also, you should really tone down your aggression. Responding to everyone and piling on sass, strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks isn't going to help the issues, or help people get over them. 

 

[ENGINEEEEER]

Why are the archwing charges a consumable at all? And while 50 is considerable compared to the cost of building and the 1 hour build time, 50 is not enough. 

Finally, Why is an archwing launcher require fish oil??

• Archwing is a primarily combat and navigation tool
• FISHING IS A NON-COMBAT, STANDING, IMMOBILE ACTIVITY
• These don't belong together. 
• Fishing is a great option for low key standing gathering. 
• Fishing should not be a required activity to navigate the Plains quickly.

At least advise on the decision process. This seems like a huge miss. 

P.S. Making the purchased Archwing Launcher segment require further farming to even use is kind of insulting. If someone paid ~$10 in plat to use archwing on the plains, maybe throw them some charges?

[Xarteros]

Just now, Desdemona-XI said:

firstly I think Zenurik's changes are Fair and I am a zenurik user. because now focus abilties have no cooldown which is something you rabid morons are missing. I can start using my zenurik energy as soon as i drop into a mission. I dont have to deactivate abilities to get it out in 180 seconds. i can load it up to the brim and use it all in 10 seconds with the time taken for the landing animation. ofcourse abiltities you can only use once every five minutes will be powerful. but you want that power in the first second for free? who the heck are you kidding? 

 

Secondly warframes always have and always will have the point where they cant develop further. they are machines. potential is fixxed and limited. and as it is your rank 30 excalibur can shred level 150 bombards like butter. and you want the warframes to develop further? You my friend have an opness fetish and should go play Doom with god mode on or something.

You might be happy with Zenurik, but that doesn't make it fair. Because it was popular before, it has higher costs for things without actually being better than the other powers. As it stands, Madurai is basically the most useful school, because it gives you 25% more damage from ALL sources, and that's quite cheap to max out (since it's the first two nodes), and you get efficiency and extra damage, which are two really key things for the new content.

And lol, you really eat up Grineer Propaganda.

You realise Warframes aren't machines right? They're mechanically augmented organisms. They bleed. They can get infections and suffer from toxins. They live. According to the lore, they are actually sentient in their own right, but just mentally weak and have no guidance, so we shepherd them the same way the Lotus shepherds us. That doesn't matter though, because DE said that Focus was our endgame system, and now they've silently redacted that statement. That's the issue here.

The reason DE gave us an endgame system is because everyone wanted one. It was meant to be a way to show how much you have mastered your favourite frames, beyond simply levelling them to 30 a few times. The community didn't want it as a power spike, because there wasn't (and still isn't) any worthwhile content that actually needs you to be able to do more damage. There isn't any better reward for wave 200 of a defence than there is at wave 20. People wanted an endgame to give you a bit more customisation, like alternate abilities for your warframe, or overarching skills to improve quality of life. We sort of got that, in a sense, but it wasn't fair or fun. Removing the system nearly in its entirety wasn't a way to fix the issue.

Also, you should really tone down your aggression. Responding to everyone and piling on sass, strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks isn't going to help the issues, or help people get over them. 

 

[-Temp0-]

1 hour ago, --Laughing-Soul-- said:

its a completely valid comparison. just because you are too salty to run the distance doesnt mean you cant.

No such thing as "too salty to run the distance". It should not be a thing. Period. It kills open world-like games and kills it like nothing else.

Ain't an effing horse. It's even more archaic than us needing to pick reactant and shards by hand. 

Quote

so you can, you have just chosen not to.

It's like saying that you can sht on the streets if you workspace doesn't have toilets. Same amount of "logic" here. DIdn't know we still live in 1800s.

Make freaking charges infinite. You craft it once, and that's it. It's not a rocket science. That way there won't be any "but mah players that framed so hard will be very much upset that we changed it and they farmed for nothing"

[Twelvelight]

12 minutes ago, Desdemona-XI said:

Ive been here for 3 years. and the only thing i can say about this update i dont like that isnt bug related. is the expense of charges. because that isnt netting DE money and somewhat lessens my idea of hopping in and out of archwing freely. but it wont affect me playing plains because skywing is inherently limited in the first place for balancing reasons.

Fishoil for greasin up ur archwing is reasonable (100) but the red lava stone thing i can agree on..

[Yoshihito]

Agreed. I thought the need for fish oil a little dubious myself.

[Rawbeard]

I haven't seen a single fish yet, so I agree those should not be part of crafting stuff not related to fishing

 

[Yoshihito]

Lag must have double posted...

Edited October 13, 2017 by Yoshihito

[Zanoza-chan]

Parkour is helping enough in travelling imo. That makes the archwing more more luxury than necessity.

I got 60 fish oil per one night btw (I wasn't only fishing, I was also mining gems and killing sentient drones), so 150 fish oil for 50 archwings is fair enough.

[Mcl_Blue]

Agreed as well, seems like such a weird decision.

[xmegarockx]

i like to grind :D

[Ninjamander]

Making them consumable is...yea...seem like a bad decision...same for the fish oil resource for it.

[RawGritz]

This IS WarFrame! The grind is real. Once I realized how to get the fish I respected the decision. It gave me some objectives and things to do in the Plains. We shouldn't want to just binge all the content at once anyway. Plus now I know my Sky-Wing will be a great luxury once I craft the 50 charges.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

21 minutes ago, Ninjamander said:

Making them consumable is...yea...seem like a bad decision...same for the fish oil resource for it.

Air charges are consumable. So no different.

[TankHunter678]

Looks like the mods are merging threads.

[TankHunter678]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Air charges are consumable. So no different.

Air support charges use common materials that most everyone has in abundance or can easily and quickly farm up metric tons of it.

I have not seen a single fish in all my runs of the plains.

[OniDax]

Agree. And it shouldn't be consumable. Instead, it should be a cooldown. I'd rather have an Archwing with none of its abilities available, yet having high durability and survivability, instead of a consumable, fishing-required archwing where we can use its powers.

[OniDax]

17 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

So you're saying I'm being needlessly salty here?

Sorry, but I expect gameplay items to have some plausible logic and consistency. High tech gear should require high tech resources. Circuits I get. That new Grineer resource I get. Iradite I get...but Fish Oil?

It's like they just pick some of these resource requirements at random.

Fish Oil I can see in Ostron items. Not as a means of deploying Archwings.

 

 

 

Unless of course this is a bug. Tell me this is a bug...

 

No. It's an attempt to force fishing on people, essentially saying, "You want ease of travel? You gotta fish."

16 hours ago, blazinvire said:

I almost kind of don't want to play in the Plains anymore until Archwings are more easily accessible, because it's so obnoxiously big that even the most masterful parkour techniques would still take forever to get anywhere, it's just exhausting to play.

Seeing how the game offers so few travel options for free roam, plus a grindfest to even be able to archwing, after paying plat, this is how I feel as well. I can't stand bullet jumping for travel. I'm fine with bullet jumping to jump over enemies, and jump from one side of a tile to another, but I don't like bullet jumping across the entire Plains of Eidolon. And the Warframe animations are so robotic that even just running and sprinting aren't satisfying. For me, there are just so many features of open world games (namely multiple modes of transportation and enemy and civilian NPCs and villages and towns in the open world area) that are lacking in Plains of Eidolon that I have no real interest in continuing to spend time there. With additional features, I'll be more inclined to spend time there. For now, I think I prefer the tilesets. They're more suited to the limited means of travel.

Edited October 13, 2017 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[Desdemona-XI]

37 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

You might be happy with Zenurik, but that doesn't make it fair. Because it was popular before, it has higher costs for things without actually being better than the other powers. As it stands, Madurai is basically the most useful school, because it gives you 25% more damage from ALL sources, and that's quite cheap to max out (since it's the first two nodes), and you get efficiency and extra damage, which are two really key things for the new content.

And lol, you really eat up Grineer Propaganda.

You realise Warframes aren't machines right? They're mechanically augmented organisms. They bleed. They can get infections and suffer from toxins. They live. According to the lore, they are actually sentient in their own right, but just mentally weak and have no guidance, so we shepherd them the same way the Lotus shepherds us. That doesn't matter though, because DE said that Focus was our endgame system, and now they've silently redacted that statement. That's the issue here.

The reason DE gave us an endgame system is because everyone wanted one. It was meant to be a way to show how much you have mastered your favourite frames, beyond simply levelling them to 30 a few times. The community didn't want it as a power spike, because there wasn't (and still isn't) any worthwhile content that actually needs you to be able to do more damage. There isn't any better reward for wave 200 of a defence than there is at wave 20. People wanted an endgame to give you a bit more customisation, like alternate abilities for your warframe, or overarching skills to improve quality of life. We sort of got that, in a sense, but it wasn't fair or fun. Removing the system nearly in its entirety wasn't a way to fix the issue.

Also, you should really tone down your aggression. Responding to everyone and piling on sass, strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks isn't going to help the issues, or help people get over them. 

 

ohh man theres so much to get into here.. 

so first you complain that focus schools costs are too steep to be earned quickly then claim that theres no more endgame in focus? Im getting seriously mixxed messages here.

 

and on. the nature of warframes. a more appropriate term would be Bio-mechanical machines. as it is evident orokin were very fond of living technology. and before you site lore claiming sentience in warframes. that has not ever been concretely said one way or the other. but while likely sentience is also profoundly different from sapience.

 

now. the concept of any school being better is utter nonsense. it all depends on what playstyle you use. but let's assess this.

Madurai gets elemental and physical damage buffs of 25% as you say. great. in a world full of rivens and minmaxxed builds 25% is a noticable increase but hardly earth-shattering. and as you said. the game does not require you to do more damage beyond a certain point. so with your own statements. Madurai could more effectively labeled the newbie school. not the best. and it does get its cute little hadouken power which is fun. and seems to pack a serious bite. 

Zenurik, well passive bonus energy from orbs doesnt seem like much initially. but then orbs can work while sustaining other abilities. i would assume the passive does too. I intend to test this personally. then on  top of that. channeling efficiency. now Fair to say there hasnt been a great channeling build in a long time. but that doesnt mean there shouldnt be one. if nothing else zenurik basically cuts the penalty for life strike and such way down which is worth it alone. then it can provide more energy per second to the entire team then the passive of zenurik 1.0 could provide for the player alone. and it can do so infinitely without cooldown. I'm sorry but that says upgrade to me.

Naramon? well heck. 25% bonus affinity on melee kills is always going to be significant. no other frame can give you that. Melee combo counter decays instead of just timing out. the oppurtunity for a brutal blood rush and drifting contact build is almost frightening. especially for stealth affinity farming.

Vazarin. increased affinity range. which by the way governs several other effects from warframe abilities. so that has potential. then instant revives. been a vazarin staple for ages. and that's no small bonus either. plus a void dash that gives allies total damage immunity for a brief duration and heals them? again castable at any time, with no cooldown. I'd say Vazarin has never looked better

Uinaru. well they get free armor and damage reflection off their passives. as well as able to cloak nearby allies. so.. we basically convert any frame to a tank. take valkyr into the stratosphere with armor values. and give any warframe damage reflection like mesa?

 

and all these mentioned powers are adjacent to the first node. sure there's costs involved for the flashier powers but so what? not like we arent going to unlock and use them anyway. we have no cooldown modifier to worry on. 

Im sorry but theres nothing you can say that can convice me this hasnt made focus better, and more balanced, and more fun on all sides. except for operator-haters. and they still get the passives. and sooner 

 

and sure DE said that originally. and has that really changed? people still put the lenses on their favorite frames first. focus 1.0 or 2.0 didnt really give any specific benefits to favored frames. other then the assumption that that is what people would put lenses on. and in my case its been true. I cant speak for others but i dont put lenses on frames I dont enjoy using. do you? focus hasnt deminished in endgame value. and every player should know by now nothing stays completely unchanged in warframe for long. i am sure later down the line a new tier of progression will open for focus. maybe revive the focus 1.0 powers maybe add entirely new ones. focus has always been and will always be a long-term project for a player. its never been longer term now because there is incentive to expand beyond your one school picked for you in the second dream.

 

Secondly. if you think this is me being aggressive you dont know the first thing about me and you should be glad of that. Sass is my humor and my way of pointing out horrific flaws in logic that hopefully will get you people to realize "wow this chick is being kind of harsh" and then look at how they just phrased their own hate filled negativity captialized rant at DE. usually without any helpful suggestions of any sort other then "I want it, give it to me, now and free, and then make it stronger." usually by people who didnt even read the prelaunch information or the launcher information very thoroughly.  this is called feedback, not "yell at the devs because i didnt get what i wanted right away." 

 

This topic was originally Meant for the archwing. and I personally hope a DE drags both our messages over to a focus 2.0 thread so we can stop blocking up this one.

 

and on the topic of arcwhing I have agreed that the fish oil price is too heavy. PoE is a little too difficult to access comfortably for much of the playerbase. some have hardware issues. some have connectivity issues.

However twice now ive heard people claim that plains is inoperable without skywing citing specifically combat. even though skywing will have no impact on combat  other then what abilities used. we dont get our arch guns in skywing. we cant even use melee in skywing. so frankly for the most part you'll Want to be on the ground to fight in the first place.  skywing is transport. not meant to be relied on for combat.. might be useful for hunting the Teralyst depending on the archwing equipped. itzal for example is likely to be almost no help on the plains in an actual fight. except for hiding in cloak and sniping strategies. but it will be highly useful for navigating the plains quickly.

 

Now It's been stated numerous times. archwing beacon is overly expensive for consumable. if it were permenant gear. i'd happily hunt fish all damn day for it. and I believe DE should fix that same as anyone else. but getting aggressive with DE is not going to make them want to lift a finger and even tab back over to their software to look at fixing it. As you yourself said. picking fights isnt gonna make anyone feel better.

[ENGINEEEEER]

1 hour ago, RawGritz said:

This IS WarFrame! The grind is real. Once I realized how to get the fish I respected the decision. It gave me some objectives and things to do in the Plains. We shouldn't want to just binge all the content at once anyway. Plus now I know my Sky-Wing will be a great luxury once I craft the 50 charges.

Grind is fine. But grinding a minigame to move around freely is just quite tedious. 

[Marvelous_A]

I don't understand why they put arching like it. Just make it free. For fu@k sake. It was a great chance to make them actually useful. Guess now we are back on feet then. It was a very dumb move DE.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Marvelous_A

[Eathian]

It has stink all over it

 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, TankHunter678 said:

Air support charges use common materials that most everyone has in abundance or can easily and quickly farm up metric tons of it.

I have not seen a single fish in all my runs of the plains.

New area. New resources. Remember being a noob and having to farm ur butt of for 10 orokin cells? Now u probably have 100s of em. Same difference. New area... Gotta farm girl!

Edited October 13, 2017 by (PS4)big_eviljak