Archwing Launcher is prohibitively expensive

[MirageKnight]

7 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

No. It's an attempt to force fishing on people, essentially saying, "You want ease of travel? You gotta fish."

Sadly I agree with you. Worst of all, it doesn't even make sense. I don't really mind so much Archwings being deployable gear on PoE. I can live with that. I can even go along with most of the resources needed, because they make sense.

Fish Oil though? That needs to go. Replace it with Polymer Bundles, Detonite or Fieldron...even *shudder* an Orokin Cell. Just...anything but Fish Oil.

Besides, Fish Oil's already an ingredient for crafting Ostron weapons, no?

Edited October 14, 2017 by MirageKnight

[DiabolusUrsus]

5 hours ago, Desdemona-XI said:

Firstly. Skywing is NOT required. plenty of footage clearly demonstrates being able to shoot enemies from the ground just as easily. and. Skywing Does NOT give archwing weapons! we have seen this in no fewer then three devstreams. it keeps your own damn weapons. does it make moving around more painful. Yes. is a charge-based system for this utter bull-dung. Absolutely. but then air support instantly disabling alarms even in high level missions without the need to even hunt out a console and locking alarms out is no less practical. or the med tower for that other ship. scimitar's bombard is pretty lame I concede but it still functions on the same base premise. and manufacturing say.. energy restores may not seem very expensive but they can siphon out a lot of your resources stupidly fast depending on your playstyle and how heavily you use them.

Okay, so I typed out a response to this already, but it doesn't seem to exist so either a) my phone ate it and never submitted it properly, or b) some moderator deleted it without saying anything or issuing some kind of warning. I don't think I wrote anything particularly toxic, so I'm assuming the former.

On the matter of POE archwing use not granting archwing weapons: My mistake. I didn't actually watch the streams, so that was an incorrect assumption on my part. Even so, the increased mobility would probably be useful in avoiding those huge AOE, near-incessant carpet-bomb airstrikes wouldn't it? My point stands that the aircraft enemies on the plains are explicitly designed to push players toward using their archwings. It is the most immediate logical counter, especially given the hype they generated about it.

On the matter of energy restores, this was never a discussion about the sustainability of crafting consumables. This was a discussion on the immediate availability of said consumables due to short crafting time and reliance on resources the average player is likely to have stockpiled simply by playing the game.

5 hours ago, Desdemona-XI said:

There is no fine print because its not needed. every thing in the market that is comprised of more then one element specifies what it contains very specifically. right in the "buy screen." DE is under no more obligation to clarify that any further then they already do. people who make the assumption are not making it based on common sense at all. because while it would make sense for it to come preloaded with charges for that inflated platprice. it's also fully obvious that if it did it would say so very evidently. so therefore. The information required is supplied. would it be nice if they fixxed the sale page to clarify that further. absolutely. 

The fine print was metaphorical, and it was a metaphor I chose to emphasize that the average player on update day is going to have even less patience for the more mundane details than usual. You seem to like harping on about "mixed messages," and I'm getting those from you here. Either the market description is not a problem and doesn't require fixing, or it is and it does. If you can admit that the market description could use additional clarity, you can admit that important information regarding brand-new mechanics is perhaps not as easily-available as it should be. Still, I'm getting into a tangent here.

Go read the complaint posts by the people who bought the segment. READ them. They are not saying "Hey, where are those charges I thought I bought?" They are not saying "I thought if I bought this I wouldn't need charges!"

They are saying "Why can I not buy charges?" or "What was the point of buying this thing if there is no fast option for getting charges?"

You're pointing your finger at these people calling them stupid for not reading when the core issue was not that they didn't read. They understood what they bought as well as could reasonably be expected, but they were utterly blindsided by the uselessness of what they were actually buying. That information was nowhere. Not in the description. Not in the patch notes. Not even on the forums, and most players don't actually come here in the first place.

Tell me, why should a player be expected to research so extensively?

5 hours ago, Desdemona-XI said:

But that is NOT where you are taking this. you keep hammering them like they are somehow criminally negligent for not doing what is fairly obvious right from the get go in a game where large quantities of things require wiki trips to make it painfully clear that either this works or it does not.

And we know from experience that people who hammer DE with these slanderous terms you chuck around usually Do not get the problem addressed for a long damn time.

Sure. plains is big. and sure even with high mobility frames it'll take you a long time to get around. so what? that's exactly the point of the plains: to be big and open with stuff to explore.

I probably wont be using skywing much at all until they fix the issue with it's charges because i would rather make my way back to cetus slowly. with twice the resources along the way then skip around with skywing when I dont have to.

so what you are posting here is not constructive criticism. its overly negative. you basically insult the entire company for an error that is easily made. because it is an error born out of perspective. but then you make no offers for solutions. no contributary suggestions whatsoever. you just nitpick at them. and wonder why they dont feel like reading very far in the first post. 

I'm hammering them like they are criminally negligent because all the evidence points to that being the case. I would love to be wrong on this point. Believe me, that would actually make my day, and make me eat my words. But DE's change in disposition toward their microtransaction model makes me disinclined to hope. They've constantly been pushing the boundaries of what the community will tolerate, and in this case they went too far in my opinion.

Let's look at the apparent facts:

• DE deliberately generated hype about using Archwing on the plains as a means of convenience and freedom. Unless I missed something else, the first indication they gave that it would be wait-walled with research and limited via consumables was in the patch notes.
• DE deliberately designed enemies that appear to be properly counterable through use of an Archwing. Whether or not the Archwing actually proves useful is unfortunately beside the point entirely.
• DE deliberately made the segment available for purchase on the market as a means of prompting impulse-buys from impatient or over-excited players, while neglecting to provide all of the necessary resources for the instant gratification that got said players to make the purchase in the first place. They sold them on skipping a wait, then didn't actually let them skip the wait. This is not about bundling charges with the segment or making it clearer that charges were not included. This is about providing the charges at all.

What sort of a suggested solution do you expect, other than "refund, compensate, apologize?"

If it was deliberate, it's only the right think for them to do.

If it was an honest mistake, it's still fair for them to do.

This isn't intended to be constructive criticism aimed at refining a mechanic. This is intended to be explicit protest, which is still a valid form of feedback. I'm not pointing my finger at the devs saying "you are all criminals," I am very deliberately describing their policy as dishonest. They can either fix it and the problem goes away, or ignore it and we can see where this goes from here.

Let's also be clear that DE is not some unified hive-mind with a single directive. It is made up of many, many individuals with very different priorities.

DE Steve? DE Rebecca? All the staffers we know and love? I sure-heartedly believe that they are just as invested in this game as a labor of love as the community at large, and I don't see this problem as a smear on their reputation. However, keep in mind that the hype that they generate from excitement and enthusiasm is the exact same hype that generates lots of sales for the bean-counters and share-holders. It is as much a cold and calculating business strategy as it is a celebration, and it is the precise atmosphere that makes players most likely to buy exciting new things without looking too closely at them.

That's why I have to point a finger at DE as a whole instead of narrowing my focus. It's the only logical thing to do when I can't be certain which exact individuals are actually responsible for the problem.

You know what the most damning thing is at this point?

The utter lack of response. It's 6:00 p.m. Pacific Time the day after, this problem has enough of a forum presence that the moderators are merging threads about it, and the only official statement even remotely related is about making the segment more easy to sell in trade chat. Look at that, something else related to making DE money!

This is not something that requires a lot of thought. If it's a mistake, apologize, even if you don't have a concrete solution to it just yet. The fact that they haven't done so is very telling.

Unless, of course, you're still inclined to continue white-knighting this particular issue as something that is somehow player negligence.

I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist. I truly, positively, sincerely, dearly hope that I am completely wrong. But I have a rational head on my shoulders capable of connecting the dots that are there until proven otherwise, and simply not saying anything about it and waiting to see what happens is not the way to go about creating change.

PS:

Two things I want to clarify:

I am not trying to make prosecutive accusations (though I am making accusations). I am trying to make it clear exactly what this sort of behavior looks like, so that I can be either corrected or vindicated on this point.

I sincerely appreciate and admire your desire to hold people accountable for their decisions. Please don't take anything I've said here as a personal attack on yourself, or intended to suggest that I feel any sort of contempt toward you. To you, this is a matter of stopping stupid people from doing stupid things and foisting the consequences onto others. I can definitely get behind that.

But to me, this is a matter of honesty in business practices, and honesty is not something I am willing to compromise on simply because I want to give someone I'm fond of the benefit of the doubt.

Edited October 14, 2017 by DiabolusUrsus

[TankHunter678]

2 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

New area. New resources. Remember being a noob and having to farm ur butt of for 10 orokin cells? Now u probably have 100s of em. Same difference. New area... Gotta farm girl!

I don't remember ever having to farm my butt off for orokin cells. They came naturally in all the runs I did with friends to get ember parts and farming infested for the hell of it.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

It's just that all the grinds add up to a gigantic grindwall of tediousness, honestly.

Let's just do a quick look at how many layers of grind you have on most stuff in the plains.

First you have the first layer of grind, which is the initial "let's grind affinity for both cetus and the quills". In this phase, you'll be doing a gazillion repetitive bounties and farming sentients at night for days just to get the required standing to even unlock the ability to buy all the stuff that's being sold by merchants in town. In essence , you're sacrificing aka wasting huge amounts hard earned resources just to unlock the ability to have access to the full inventory of stuff these vendors sell... Which frankly kinda sucks since you only get one reward per 3/5 waves of bounties and it's usually some terrible garbage like 4000 credits or a vitality mod.

Then there's the layer of farming the standing to actually buy all these blueprints and components. In a sense, you're paying a second time, since you always paid huge tribute to unlock the ability to buy stuff.

Then there's yet another layer , which is gathering the components from the world and actually crafting said items using said blueprints you farmed for... Still requiring a third layer of farming on top of the first two layers.

And that's not even talking about Focus 2.0 and fact you require like 30+ million focus per three to max a single tree ,and need to invest and level up all trees to max out your operator and fix most of the glaring issues they have (low hp, low mana pool, slow movement speed, etc).

So yeah, having you sacrificing fish oil every time you want to fly is just a small spec in the grand scope of grindy tediousness brought by this update, but for some, it's the drop that broke the camel back.

Edited October 14, 2017 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

First of all, i just don't get it, how we came to a gameplay feature became craftable?

You know, next step is charges for a Operator, or craftable ammo. Or even bullet dash have a charges.

I have no idea how this feature is on reliase. I'm play only one day and run one side, then anoter side for a time longer than actually do something make me miserable. Why somebody deside it can be a good idea? I am make a simple bind for a bullet dash at my mouse and now i think about full run-and-slide macro...

 Make time to activate it, if you don't want to make it a flow battle feature. Make a cooldown like 10-15 seconds if you wanna prevent a spam. But why i need to think about i can get out of charges???

And only one part make me feel better. I have a patient and a 175p in my pocket. But i guess, time to stop the jokes. I need Archwing to save my time from a useless raсe through Plains of Eidolon. And i should spend this time to a fishing at a lakes of Eidolon? R U KIDDING ME?

 

[EchoesOfRain]

I don't mind the cost to build it. The dojo research was a tad challenging, and I farmed up quite a bit more resources to finish it up. The expensive costs for the charges is a bit challenging for what it is. But there shouldn't be any more cost after that. I get that something like Skywing should require effort and grinding to aquire, but I shouldn't feel like I have to carefully manage my Archwing use. I unlocked a really cool feature, I should be able to use it freely. Spears are unlimited use. Mining lasers are unlimited use. Archwing charges should be unlimited use.

 

If you want to limit Archwings, give a set amount of charges per visit to the Plains. Maybe 10 charges. If you run out of charges, you have to leave the Plains and come back. Archwing is limited, yet we don't have to keep pouring high costs into it.

[Bojownik]

DE put your fish oil!!!! Dame guys really?? 150 for 50 usage  not only you screw this up really...funny stuf is that bp for bait and making fish easy to see is simgle use why?? but gring is now insane make tenno warriors really they are worst then before focus 2.0 is for now useless i got milions of focus dont use becouse quills must have rep from me really ...bunch of dudes eating fish will teach me how use focus really ?? Who is tenno here??Fishing was suppoust be i dont know nice time eating entertain but its must do stuff MOUST BORING STUFF NOW IS STANDING LIKE MORON WHITH STICK THROWING AT FISH ... In real LIFE I DONT FISHing  AND DAME I DONT DOWNLOAD DAME APP ON SMARTPHONE TO PLAY FIShING I PLAY WARFRAME sry for poor engl

Edited October 14, 2017 by Bojownik

[Lord-Nezekan]

7 hours ago, Desdemona-XI said:

firstly I think Zenurik's changes are Fair and I am a zenurik user. because now focus abilties have no cooldown which is something you rabid morons are missing. I can start using my zenurik energy as soon as i drop into a mission. I dont have to deactivate abilities to get it out in 180 seconds. i can load it up to the brim and use it all in 10 seconds with the time taken for the landing animation. ofcourse abiltities you can only use once every five minutes will be powerful. but you want that power in the first second for free? who the heck are you kidding? 

 

Secondly warframes always have and always will have the point where they cant develop further. they are machines. potential is fixxed and limited. and as it is your rank 30 excalibur can shred level 150 bombards like butter. and you want the warframes to develop further? You my friend have an opness fetish and should go play Doom with god mode on or something.

True there are scenarios that the new zenurik is favorable but if you look at it you will be needing to pick up orbs 1st for it to work and that 45% is not that great considering its a regen for a period of time which means toggle skills doesn't benefit from it while other frames that are not toggle based skills are not power hungry infact max efficiency with es would suffice ofc w/ energy disruptors. The conditions before might take 5mins for zenurik to charge but in a high level situation where orbs can be scarce I find continuous regen is way better than an occasional sudden boost which honestly 45% of 25 that is regenerated overtime is roughly on the same page as the previous zenurik Arcane energy and operator skills aside, besides going operator mode and summoning energy regen circle is risky and ofc whowants to be stationary.

I am not saying that old zenurik is perfect infact other paths being neglectable specially in speed runs, but it can always be improved rather than just outright removal and replacement with something that doesn't really offer something better just different.

[Desdemona-XI]

37 minutes ago, EchoesOfRain said:

I don't mind the cost to build it. The dojo research was a tad challenging, and I farmed up quite a bit more resources to finish it up. The expensive costs for the charges is a bit challenging for what it is. But there shouldn't be any more cost after that. I get that something like Skywing should require effort and grinding to aquire, but I shouldn't feel like I have to carefully manage my Archwing use. I unlocked a really cool feature, I should be able to use it freely. Spears are unlimited use. Mining lasers are unlimited use. Archwing charges should be unlimited use.

 

If you want to limit Archwings, give a set amount of charges per visit to the Plains. Maybe 10 charges. If you run out of charges, you have to leave the Plains and come back. Archwing is limited, yet we don't have to keep pouring high costs into it.

Now this is what i call a constructive post. thats actually quite a useful idea. I would say 15 charges though because i gather that the melee key cancels out of skywing so some fingerslips may happen. and ofcourse cause the plains really just are that big

[Sir_Millsalot]

OK guys i am seriously not getting what the problem is here i went fishing for one night and got enough fish oil to make 100 charges easily...its not like you are having to constantly grind for this for nothing, and its not even that hard. i have spent more time farming for plastids than i did fishing for fish oil and gotten just a little bit more that was gone in a second... this really isn't something new to the game and it isn't even hard to do...

[Shadowyone]

makes no since if your airship can easily pick you up in the plaines no problem. doing arching in space no problem picking uyp and playing arching in space no problem doesn't use charges cause your ship just swoops in and drops you off in your archwing gear, no problem picking me up at any mission seriously no problem leaving the plains in my ship any second i want no problem.

 

want to use archwing in plains? huge problem. why??? makes not a lick of sense.

airsupport charges make sense who the hell is wanting to stop the clock drokp a charge then it hacks it for you, want to drop a turrent can't drop unlimited amounts tho. want to do a bomb barrage where the bombs come from charges... that makes sense.

 

so unless you make it to where you have to have charges to even use your archwing in space it's not fair nor will i ever understand why. logically it makes no sense if you can in random missions drop in water and it calls your archwing no problem you can hop in and out in and out in and out like a million times no problem. but in the plains its an issue.

just make it unlimited uses up the cost of making it if it makes DE feel better about themselves would rather use the fish for armor and weapons than B.S. like calling an archwing when you ahve no problem on uranus or in space.

[Carnage2K4]

The Archwing charges would have been the one thing that should have been via normal components, even if they were a little more expensive.

Just because some new materials have been added to the game, does not mean every item needs to use them, all the stuff you make at Cetus I can understand, but the fact they are made in your ship, they should be just control modules, Polymer Bundle maybe an Orokin cell. 

Edited October 14, 2017 by Carnage2K4

[Lord-Nezekan]

9 hours ago, Twelvelight said:

FFS People.. How long have u played this for free? Get real.. ofc they need to get money somewhere, if u dont like it. Use Titiana.. -*- Ofc this would prob jock up some of your weekend warrior wannabee's ...

Gears aren't sold for platinum at market so yeah idk how they would make profit at this scenario

[daPorkchop]

If you haven't seen a fish yet...you're doing something wrong. I've caught at least 20 in less in 30 mins of not trying too hard to look for them.

They make a bubbling noise when they are near you and you can see the water on top of where they are kind of move. Kinda like a raindrop in the water.

[Lord-Nezekan]

9 hours ago, Xarteros said:

You might be happy with Zenurik, but that doesn't make it fair. Because it was popular before, it has higher costs for things without actually being better than the other powers. As it stands, Madurai is basically the most useful school, because it gives you 25% more damage from ALL sources, and that's quite cheap to max out (since it's the first two nodes), and you get efficiency and extra damage, which are two really key things for the new content.

And lol, you really eat up Grineer Propaganda.

You realise Warframes aren't machines right? They're mechanically augmented organisms. They bleed. They can get infections and suffer from toxins. They live. According to the lore, they are actually sentient in their own right, but just mentally weak and have no guidance, so we shepherd them the same way the Lotus shepherds us. That doesn't matter though, because DE said that Focus was our endgame system, and now they've silently redacted that statement. That's the issue here.

The reason DE gave us an endgame system is because everyone wanted one. It was meant to be a way to show how much you have mastered your favourite frames, beyond simply levelling them to 30 a few times. The community didn't want it as a power spike, because there wasn't (and still isn't) any worthwhile content that actually needs you to be able to do more damage. There isn't any better reward for wave 200 of a defence than there is at wave 20. People wanted an endgame to give you a bit more customisation, like alternate abilities for your warframe, or overarching skills to improve quality of life. We sort of got that, in a sense, but it wasn't fair or fun. Removing the system nearly in its entirety wasn't a way to fix the issue.

Also, you should really tone down your aggression. Responding to everyone and piling on sass, strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks isn't going to help the issues, or help people get over them. 

 

Splendid! That's right in our civilized world there is such a thing called vested right. Just because you don't enjoy it others who do must be deprived of it.

[Lord-Nezekan]

5 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Okay, so I typed out a response to this already, but it doesn't seem to exist so either a) my phone ate it and never submitted it properly, or b) some moderator deleted it without saying anything or issuing some kind of warning. I don't think I wrote anything particularly toxic, so I'm assuming the former.

On the matter of POE archwing use not granting archwing weapons: My mistake. I didn't actually watch the streams, so that was an incorrect assumption on my part. Even so, the increased mobility would probably be useful in avoiding those huge AOE, near-incessant carpet-bomb airstrikes wouldn't it? My point stands that the aircraft enemies on the plains are explicitly designed to push players toward using their archwings. It is the most immediate logical counter, especially given the hype they generated about it.

On the matter of energy restores, this was never a discussion about the sustainability of crafting consumables. This was a discussion on the immediate availability of said consumables due to short crafting time and reliance on resources the average player is likely to have stockpiled simply by playing the game.

The fine print was metaphorical, and it was a metaphor I chose to emphasize that the average player on update day is going to have even less patience for the more mundane details than usual. You seem to like harping on about "mixed messages," and I'm getting those from you here. Either the market description is not a problem and doesn't require fixing, or it is and it does. If you can admit that the market description could use additional clarity, you can admit that important information regarding brand-new mechanics is perhaps not as easily-available as it should be. Still, I'm getting into a tangent here.

Go read the complaint posts by the people who bought the segment. READ them. They are not saying "Hey, where are those charges I thought I bought?" They are not saying "I thought if I bought this I wouldn't need charges!"

They are saying "Why can I not buy charges?" or "What was the point of buying this thing if there is no fast option for getting charges?"

You're pointing your finger at these people calling them stupid for not reading when the core issue was not that they didn't read. They understood what they bought as well as could reasonably be expected, but they were utterly blindsided by the uselessness of what they were actually buying. That information was nowhere. Not in the description. Not in the patch notes. Not even on the forums, and most players don't actually come here in the first place.

Tell me, why should a player be expected to research so extensively?

I'm hammering them like they are criminally negligent because all the evidence points to that being the case. I would love to be wrong on this point. Believe me, that would actually make my day, and make me eat my words. But DE's change in disposition toward their microtransaction model makes me disinclined to hope. They've constantly been pushing the boundaries of what the community will tolerate, and in this case they went too far in my opinion.

Let's look at the apparent facts:

• DE deliberately generated hype about using Archwing on the plains as a means of convenience and freedom. Unless I missed something else, the first indication they gave that it would be wait-walled with research and limited via consumables was in the patch notes.
• DE deliberately designed enemies that appear to be properly counterable through use of an Archwing. Whether or not the Archwing actually proves useful is unfortunately beside the point entirely.
• DE deliberately made the segment available for purchase on the market as a means of prompting impulse-buys from impatient or over-excited players, while neglecting to provide all of the necessary resources for the instant gratification that got said players to make the purchase in the first place. They sold them on skipping a wait, then didn't actually let them skip the wait. This is not about bundling charges with the segment or making it clearer that charges were not included. This is about providing the charges at all.

What sort of a suggested solution do you expect, other than "refund, compensate, apologize?"

If it was deliberate, it's only the right think for them to do.

If it was an honest mistake, it's still fair for them to do.

This isn't intended to be constructive criticism aimed at refining a mechanic. This is intended to be explicit protest, which is still a valid form of feedback. I'm not pointing my finger at the devs saying "you are all criminals," I am very deliberately describing their policy as dishonest. They can either fix it and the problem goes away, or ignore it and we can see where this goes from here.

Let's also be clear that DE is not some unified hive-mind with a single directive. It is made up of many, many individuals with very different priorities.

DE Steve? DE Rebecca? All the staffers we know and love? I sure-heartedly believe that they are just as invested in this game as a labor of love as the community at large, and I don't see this problem as a smear on their reputation. However, keep in mind that the hype that they generate from excitement and enthusiasm is the exact same hype that generates lots of sales for the bean-counters and share-holders. It is as much a cold and calculating business strategy as it is a celebration, and it is the precise atmosphere that makes players most likely to buy exciting new things without looking too closely at them.

That's why I have to point a finger at DE as a whole instead of narrowing my focus. It's the only logical thing to do when I can't be certain which exact individuals are actually responsible for the problem.

You know what the most damning thing is at this point?

The utter lack of response. It's 6:00 p.m. Pacific Time the day after, this problem has enough of a forum presence that the moderators are merging threads about it, and the only official statement even remotely related is about making the segment more easy to sell in trade chat. Look at that, something else related to making DE money!

This is not something that requires a lot of thought. If it's a mistake, apologize, even if you don't have a concrete solution to it just yet. The fact that they haven't done so is very telling.

Unless, of course, you're still inclined to continue white-knighting this particular issue as something that is somehow player negligence.

I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist. I truly, positively, sincerely, dearly hope that I am completely wrong. But I have a rational head on my shoulders capable of connecting the dots that are there until proven otherwise, and simply not saying anything about it and waiting to see what happens is not the way to go about creating change.

PS:

Two things I want to clarify:

I am not trying to make prosecutive accusations (though I am making accusations). I am trying to make it clear exactly what this sort of behavior looks like, so that I can be either corrected or vindicated on this point.

I sincerely appreciate and admire your desire to hold people accountable for their decisions. Please don't take anything I've said here as a personal attack on yourself, or intended to suggest that I feel any sort of contempt toward you. To you, this is a matter of stopping stupid people from doing stupid things and foisting the consequences onto others. I can definitely get behind that.

But to me, this is a matter of honesty in business practices, and honesty is not something I am willing to compromise on simply because I want to give someone I'm fond of the benefit of the doubt.

Damn nice explanation for the ignorants out there precisely the point.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Plz mommy! I want the grind!

[MadHouse94]

how do you even get fish oil..?

[MJ12]

I thought the entire point of letting you use Archwing in PoE was to integrate Archwing into the game at a more basic level, so you had more mixed missions, combination Archwing/Warframe gameplay (which seems to also be what they wanted to do for the Operator).

Making Archwing use a limited time consumable with a high resource cost is actively counterproductive for this role. Archwing charges should just be on cooldown, and if you want to spend your entire time in the air as an Archwing, more power to you. If you need to limit the use of Archwing to some extent, add SAM towers or something which you need to avoid lock-ons from to make it harder to just Archwing your way to victory.

[Riot_Inducer]

3 hours ago, Sir_Millsalot said:

OK guys i am seriously not getting what the problem is here i went fishing for one night and got enough fish oil to make 100 charges easily...its not like you are having to constantly grind for this for nothing, and its not even that hard. i have spent more time farming for plastids than i did fishing for fish oil and gotten just a little bit more that was gone in a second... this really isn't something new to the game and it isn't even hard to do...

I went fishing just once, got 10 fish for the achievement and generally had an enjoyable time with the system. But I was a bit miffed that my catch only yielded enough oil for 1/3rd of one batch of archwing charges.

How long did you spend fishing? How many fish did you catch? Are rarer fish worth more oil?

As someone who's only got a casual interest in the fishing system, the oil req for the archwing charges is really the biggest problem for me. If I need to dedicated hours upon hours to fishing in order to keep myself stocked with archwing charges this could be a more serious issue. 

[TankHunter678]

5 minutes ago, Riot_Inducer said:

I went fishing just once, got 10 fish for the achievement and generally had an enjoyable time with the system. But I was a bit miffed that my catch only yielded enough oil for 1/3rd of one batch of archwing charges.

How long did you spend fishing? How many fish did you catch? Are rarer fish worth more oil?

As someone who's only got a casual interest in the fishing system, the oil req for the archwing charges is really the biggest problem for me. If I need to dedicated hours upon hours to fishing in order to keep myself stocked with archwing charges this could be a more serious issue. 

Rare and large fish grant more oil.

[magentagie]

I personally LOVE the new fishing system, but..

the archwing charge requirements...

150 fish oil

i sacrificed 38 fish

20 small, 8 medium, and and 10 large ones

and they were all lungfish, the well priced ones

that was 2478 standing's worth of fish...

it got me 107 fish oil......

DE pls...

getting the fish wasn't the problem, i enjoyed all of it, but the fact that it takes so much fish, which i could've gotten a lot of standing for, just to get 2/3 of the requirement for archwing charges, seems a little absurd to me.

Edited October 14, 2017 by magentagie

[-ZeroStar-]

You just flat out spend more time getting materials than you do using the finished product... It's a gigantic waste of time.  How could they NOT have seen this?  Every single person looked at it and went, "Wait, what?!".  So, I cannot understand how it wasn't intentional.  If it was, then sorry DE, I'm out, I'll find a new game to play and give my money to.  If it wasn't intentional, then I have to question ALL of them and their critical thinking skills... 

[RawGritz]

2 hours ago, MadHouse94 said:

how do you even get fish oil..?

You have to get enough Standing with Cetus to buy a basic fishing spear. Then you need to find a good bit of water, equip spear and go to town. Then take fish back to fish market in Cetus and have them cut them up to extract the resources. Fish oil is one of them.

[RawGritz]

So the grind is real. But one thing I like is that you can share the air support charges with squad mates. So not everyone needs them built. But best if all players have them for conserving charges.

All veteran WF players should have expected DE to double down on the grind. No way they want players quickly binge'n all the content in a couple days.  This is their magnum opus. They will stretch it out like they do everything else. And honestly its all really simple. I did my 150 fish oil pretty easy with basic fishing spear.

POE is not that big and archwing flight is pretty fast. Would be a lot less challenging if you could fly at will all the time.

Edited October 14, 2017 by RawGritz