New Focus is a HUGE ripoff to Zenurik

[Acos]

5 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

You have about half a clue regarding how much I wish that was true.

...You spent 5 bucks.

...I wish I had.

Everybody's miles are different...You should be, at least, be swift enough to understand that much.

Then I think you probably have a spending problem that really isn't fair to hold DE accountable for. 

[Sunder]

16 hours ago, MagPrime said:

I'll be totally honest.  This has severely dampened my interest in the new focus schools. 

I'm literally dreading how long it's gonna take to get the focus for these...

Every time I start the game up it's just this nagging, annoying feeling in the back of my head telling me,

"You have so much repetitive grind ahead of you...."

[Redthirst]

18 hours ago, Ceadeus said:

Yes maybe if people abused it with already overpowered Warframes

Most of those overpowered Warframes were overpowered because they could ignore energy costs.

[Toran]

Focus 2.0 is a huge rip-off to every focus. If you compare progress in Focus 1.0 to Focus 2.0, they gave us nothing back but peanuts.

After changing the whole system they didn't even have the decency to give us a neutral focus point pool, so we could pick a new favourite school.

And honestly, I don't know why I should care about this focus at all when it concentrates on the abominable operator who's nothing but a self-purpose and grind-excuse.

 

[Xolgys]

so much negativity...why dont u all first try it completely and then rate. while i dont know if uve already maxed out every school i dont think 1 day in is the right time to "rage" about it already. personally i dont find the idea bad and the only think thats completely gone from what i can tell is the naramon stealth on melee crit for the warframes. all others are different but at least not worse. zenurik energy regen for instance is much better if u actually use the operator once in a while from what i can tell...which honestly is no big deal. the only real issue that was already visible from streams is the fact that it aims too much at operators. if DE implements a similar system for warframes to individualise them a bit more its np, like a mastery tree for warframes in general. right now tho the focus (badumTZZZ) is a bit too much on operator, agree. the operator is supposed to use the warframe for power, thats why they have warframes to begin with, right ? giving them some power is not bad so its fine that the focus system with the "schools" is for them, especially logically and lore wise it fits. but warframes need something similar imo. the costs are a pain too, agree. some costs are just....

Edited October 14, 2017 by Xydeth

[MichaelSD]

21 hours ago, DrBorris said:

I feel like you have not spent much time with the new focus system let alone given it a chance, why not try to adapt and understand it before you throw a temper tantrum.

Because I am fed up being the beta tester for yet another subsystem DE can not get right over the years?

[Deraios]

8 hours ago, Ceadeus said:

But when something isn't overpowered at all and it literally just helps the game flow better but there's morons calling it overpowered because they don't understand balance, then what?

Then we wouldn't have this outrage about the removal of Energy Overflow because it would have been balanced.

[CrazyCatLad]

I miss have energy for abilities.  I was so excited for Focus when they first teased it. Then it was tied to operators and the horrible lore around them. Now they're beating us in the face with these teenagers and their junk.  No, I should reword that.

[Chewarette]

They're just shoving the operators down our throats.

I couldn't care less about him/her. Previous Zenurik allowed me to cast 5 once per game and forget about his/her existence. Now we're supposed to 5/Dash/5 every 30 seconds to have approximately the same thing as before ? Impractical as hell. Zenurik was overpowered probably, so they decided to make it even better but boring to use. Not sure that's a great design : people will still use it (as it is more overpowered than before), but without enjoying it.

DE seems to still have not understood that Zenurik was overpowered not by design, but only because Warframes' energy management is problematic. A Warframe with 0 energy and poor energy management will transform your game into a futuristic PUBG/COD/Battlefield. Thus, every player enjoying Warframe for Warframes will use every tool that allow them to use spells.

The best way to balance this was to put Energy Overflow out of the Focus system and make it baseline (even nerfed at 2 or 3 per second if they want). Then they could've balanced all schools with literally 0 problem.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Chewarette

[VoxGray]

New Zenurik is flat-out better, as it has a higher max value, and grants more ways to boost regen. If you're missing that fact, it's almost certainly because of some blind hatred for the Operator mode that so many people seem to have. At that point, it wouldn't matter if the regen was 30/sec, people would still complain about having to use Transference to get their energy regen. But as it stands, I can run Zenurik on an 85% Efficiency Mag spamming Crush and still rarely run into energy problems. And running raids last night with my Banshee, I had a similarly smooth experience. In fact, because I knew I now had to actively trigger my energy regen rather than let it passively accumulate after a single use, I kept a better eye on how much I had and was able to place bubbles at more appropriate times to keep myself topped off. New Zenurik alone can be a massive boon if used correctly, and this is coming from someone who could very easily ignore it altogether by merit of pancakes and Arcanes, if I were so inclined. (Tests were done without the involvement of either of those, mind)

I was quite worried whether I would be able to adjust to losing my free 4 energy/sec that I'd  built a number of Frames around, but I'm finding that being liberated from the Focus cooldown and the terrifying dichotomy of pre/post regen phases in missions has actually made the whole thing significantly more enjoyable. More than anything, I think the issue here stems from people hating Operator mode, for whatever reason they do. The new enhancements provided to them by the Focus system should iron out any clunkiness they suffer from, so the rage against them seems impractical at this point.

Edited October 14, 2017 by EmissaryOfInfinity

[Ceadeus]

37 minutes ago, EmissaryOfInfinity said:

New Zenurik is flat-out better, as it has a higher max value, and grants more ways to boost regen. If you're missing that fact, it's almost certainly because of some blind hatred for the Operator mode that so many people seem to have. At that point, it wouldn't matter if the regen was 30/sec, people would still complain about having to use Transference to get their energy regen. But as it stands, I can run Zenurik on an 85% Efficiency Mag spamming Crush and still rarely run into energy problems. And running raids last night with my Banshee, I had a similarly smooth experience. In fact, because I knew I now had to actively trigger my energy regen rather than let it passively accumulate after a single use, I kept a better eye on how much I had and was able to place bubbles at more appropriate times to keep myself topped off. New Zenurik alone can be a massive boon if used correctly, and this is coming from someone who could very easily ignore it altogether by merit of pancakes and Arcanes, if I were so inclined. (Tests were done without the involvement of either of those, mind)

I was quite worried whether I would be able to adjust to losing my free 4 energy/sec that I'd  built a number of Frames around, but I'm finding that being liberated from the Focus cooldown and the terrifying dichotomy of pre/post regen phases in missions has actually made the whole thing significantly more enjoyable. More than anything, I think the issue here stems from people hating Operator mode, for whatever reason they do. The new enhancements provided to them by the Focus system should iron out any clunkiness they suffer from, so the rage against them seems impractical at this point.

No, my hate for the rework has absolutely nothing to do with operator mode, I'm glad to see it coming into play as an alternative and not just a side-show.  My problem with new Zenurik is that it's the worst possible way to have reworked a mechanic that already wasn't overpowered.  This rework changed absolutely nothing about the things that everybody wants to say is the reason Zenurik needed to be reworked.  OP frames will still be OP, the majority of them burnt through their energy pool in a 30 second span anyway, so the repeated need to recast doesn't make a difference for them, not that they could gain energy during channeled abilities anyway(which are what most people were pissing and moaning about "spamming").  This rework is the literal embodiment of "give an inch, take a mile".  In exchange for 1 extra energy per second, we now have to completely stop whatever we're doing to reactivate this stupid ability EVERY 30 seconds if we want our regen to continue.  It's like if I offered you two harddrives, one will boot in 6 seconds, the other will boot in 4 seconds, but will stop working if you don't type "Dog" every 30 seconds.  See the problem?  The difference is so absolutely negligible and the task to compensate so unbelievably tedious that there is absolutely no sane reason to ever take the latter.  If DE wants to rework Zenurik, fine.  But either give us enough of a difference to merit the tedious BS or actually make it flow well with regular gameplay.

EDIT: Also, it doesn't matter if the overall energy regen potential is higher from different methods if they increase the prices to be so ridiculous that you can't even get what you had before.  I can assure you, the difference in regen is NOT worth the months of grinding these new trash costs are gonna take to grind.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Ceadeus

[Ceadeus]

1 hour ago, Deraios said:

Then we wouldn't have this outrage about the removal of Energy Overflow because it would have been balanced.

How is the removal of something balanced because people are stupid and complain about balanced things not something that would cause outrage?  You wanna know how you can really tell something was unbalanced?  Naramon.  Have you seen a single post trying to claim that old Naramon didn't need to be changed?  No.  Because everyone knew it was actually OP.  Go ahead and count the threads for Zenurik though, because the rest of the community understands that 4 energy/s without needing to recast every 30 seconds is in no way broken, doesn't allow "spam" any more than the energy pizza spam, arcane energize, or even a good equilibrium mod do.  Especially when the thing replacing it gives the same amount of energy, just with tedious hoops to jump through just for the sake of it.

How anyone can try to defend this change is beyond me.  "Yeah I love having random basic functions of the game I already had access to suddenly locked behind a random task that needs to be repeated CONSTANTLY."

How about next we make it so you need to perform a QTE for every bullet you wanna fire?  Maybe make every key need to be pressed twice to "prime" it first?  Let's put Capcha verification on every chat post, no matter what channel!

Honestly... What?

[Ceadeus]

5 hours ago, Redthirst said:

Most of those overpowered Warframes were overpowered because they could ignore energy costs.

No, they couldn't.  The people who say this stuff have NO IDEA how energy usage or regen during powers works.  The most OP frames are channeled frames, meaning they don't regen energy from any source except raw energy orbs anyway.  So please tell me how something that can't give you energy during these tasks suddenly makes them able to completely ignore energy costs.  Any other abilities can get the exact same effect from energy pizzas, arcane energize, or equilibrium.

I'd also love to hear how long you think it took old Zenurik to fill a completely depleted energy bar.  I can tell you it wasn't quick.

[Ceadeus]

2 hours ago, Xydeth said:

so much negativity...why dont u all first try it completely and then rate. while i dont know if uve already maxed out every school i dont think 1 day in is the right time to "rage" about it already. personally i dont find the idea bad and the only think thats completely gone from what i can tell is the naramon stealth on melee crit for the warframes. all others are different but at least not worse. zenurik energy regen for instance is much better if u actually use the operator once in a while from what i can tell...which honestly is no big deal. the only real issue that was already visible from streams is the fact that it aims too much at operators. if DE implements a similar system for warframes to individualise them a bit more its np, like a mastery tree for warframes in general. right now tho the focus (badumTZZZ) is a bit too much on operator, agree. the operator is supposed to use the warframe for power, thats why they have warframes to begin with, right ? giving them some power is not bad so its fine that the focus system with the "schools" is for them, especially logically and lore wise it fits. but warframes need something similar imo. the costs are a pain too, agree. some costs are just....

See the post I made to Emissary.

[Redthirst]

18 minutes ago, Ceadeus said:

No, they couldn't.  The people who say this stuff have NO IDEA how energy usage or regen during powers works.  The most OP frames are channeled frames, meaning they don't regen energy from any source except raw energy orbs anyway.  So please tell me how something that can't give you energy during these tasks suddenly makes them able to completely ignore energy costs.  Any other abilities can get the exact same effect from energy pizzas, arcane energize, or equilibrium.

I'd also love to hear how long you think it took old Zenurik to fill a completely depleted energy bar.  I can tell you it wasn't quick.

I'm talking about energy regeneration in general. Pizzas/Zenurik/EV - combination of it makes the energy system entirely useless. Zenurik wasn't the biggest issue, as energy restores are stronger, but all of it had to be nerfed.

[Omnimorph]

Oh for crying out loud can't you people stop this perpetual whining?  You've got a free game that's amazing and has just had an amazing update, and you're whining about the loss of something the game didn't even have for most of its life.  Learn2build ffs, up your efficiency and sacrifice something else if power spamming is what you love.

[DrBorris]

3 hours ago, MichaelSD said:

Because I am fed up being the beta tester for yet another subsystem DE can not get right over the years?

I disagree... and I have a feeling nothing I will say will convince you to open your mind to being wrong, so I will just leave it with that. 

[Fallen_Echo]

24 minutes ago, Omnimorph said:

Oh for crying out loud can't you people stop this perpetual whining?  You've got a free game that's amazing and has just had an amazing update, and you're whining about the loss of something the game didn't even have for most of its life.  Learn2build ffs, up your efficiency and sacrifice something else if power spamming is what you love.

Full of bugs, insane grindhell, many changes what are either nerfs or unnecesseary completely.

Even if i decide to not care about zenurik and naramon the focus update is still a mess and nerfed stuff what was not even needed and added extra clunkiness to it.

[Reynard_Fox]

As a controller user, do you have any idea how infuriatingly sloppy and tedious it is to use the new Zenurik? I have to scroll to the transference mode to use the new bubble, that's actually more of a nuisance than throwing down a pizza, and I already despise having to do that.

Energy Overflow was not OP, there were plenty of things to suck the energy out of you especially at high level. It was just a better QoL bandaid for a bad energy system and all Focus 2.0 has done is make me want to use my abilities less and in turn, I'm having far less fun now that I was before.

Also not giving us a universal focus rebate to use on any new school we choose just feels like a kick in the teeth.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Reynard_Fox

[VoxGray]

@Ceadeus Make no mistake, I don't think the old constant regen was a problem. Honestly, I wish that were the norm regardless of Focus, and the Zenurik buff was just an addition to that. I've made quite a few posts regarding that, actually.

[Scharfohr]

12 hours ago, alexorcist said:

what's more, ALL games come with a DECENT way of regenerating energy.

 

Yeah but most Games are balanced somewhere so that you cant lock down the whole game with it. (Yes i know it works with EV/Pizza too but that doesnt make the balance here any less of a mess)

[Xolgys]

frames need some automatic regeneration. right now the difference between zenurik / not zenurik is so huge...with zenurik its great, without u feel helpless at times. in my opinion nerfing that to buff the others indirectly is not helpful so i would give all frames some means to regain energy. not totally silly quick but i would give each frame a stat like armor or movements speed are also default stats. lets say average frame 1.5 energy reg per sec, a frame which is caster like and squishy but more reliant on abilities 2.0 and others who arent supposed to be too spammy 1.0 as an example. that would impove the energy topic by a lot imo. one thing to note tho, to be fair, many containers drop much energy and enemies drop energy lots too, but its still something hardly reliable in a blazing battle since theres so much going on at times, talking plains as an example now.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Xydeth

[Omnimorph]

1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Full of bugs, insane grindhell, many changes what are either nerfs or unnecesseary completely.

Even if i decide to not care about zenurik and naramon the focus update is still a mess and nerfed stuff what was not even needed and added extra clunkiness to it.

It's not a nerf, it's a huge buff to the Operator.  Trust me, I've been as sceptical of the Operator gameplay as anyone, but DE have made it work really well and really fluidly with game of taking down the Teralysts, which is a lot of fun.  So it's time to think of the Focus trees as more related to the Operators, with just a few sideline buffs for frames. 

It's not like frames and weps aren't already OP as hell anyway fercryinoutloud.

The only things that were of value in the previous Focus trees for most players (unless you took a shine to some other odd things here and there) were the Zenurik passive and the OP Naramon thing, and the Zenurik passive, while nice, was never essential.  It's perfectly possible to play Warframe without the Zenurik passive as that's what everybody did quite happily for 2 years before it came in.  

The first Zenurik unlock, the EoT from orbs is quite sufficient to replace the former passive if you're killing a lot - I can see it dropping off in usefulness in ultra-high end, where the orbs drop less, but for the bulk of the game including sorties, you get enough orbs to sustain something similar to the old passive for the average mission or sortie.  And the Energy Siphon is actually more powerful than the old passive, but you have to work for it a bit more, which is fair enough.

[Rakosta_Kai]

9 hours ago, Acos said:

Then I think you probably have a spending problem that really isn't fair to hold DE accountable for. 

Yes, I have a problem having been marketed an item and encouraged to purchase it only to have it changed for no reason.

It is entirely fair for me to hold DE accountable for that and allow it to shape future purchasing decisions on my part.

Good going Sherlock...You cracked the case.

[Ketec]

This added another layer of useless micromanagement.
Constantly having to jump into emo mode - cut wrists and back to get some energy. Bulk of the passives/focus nodes boosting the emo mode which just plainly sucks and breaks the game flow.
They keep addign stuff and keep on killing any fun this game had.

You login, expecting an amazing update and then walk from npc to npc to see layers upon layers of grind. Check focus and see that every point you had stored is now worth 400% less.