Gara the Frame that was not meant to be...

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, phoenix1992 said:

In closure of this flow :

Gara farm on its own would not be nearly as bad, if bounties were not in the current state of "sad". I don't agree that they (DE) force me to spend plat for Gara, but due to Gara being hostage to a system that needs work (and in all fairness they are working on it), it does look like it.

Fair to say, I think...I just wish I was as certain as you about their motives for making frame grinds so tedious.

Kudos for not being as cynical as me.

[phantom16361]

played almost 40 times  lvl 5-10, 0 blueprints. common drop rate? Oh HELL NO!

[UncaIroh]

RNG is just that, RNG. I was grinding bounties for the rep, Gara just ended up in my inventory eventually. Took me... 3-4 days? It's not that bad. If 3-4 days of grinding is already crazy for you... maybe you should chill and fish for a while. ^^; 

Yeah, some of you are going to complain that the fishing is yet more RNG and grind. But I actually enjoy fishing, so it's not a chore for me.

Edited October 19, 2017 by TonyWong

[BlackCoMerc]

6 minutes ago, TonyWong said:

RNG is just that, RNG. I was grinding bounties for the rep, Gara just ended up in my inventory eventually. Took me... 3-4 days? It's not that bad. If 3-4 days of grinding is already crazy for you... maybe you should chill and fish for a while. ^^; 

Yeah, some of you are going to complain that the fishing is yet more RNG and grind. But I actually enjoy fishing, so it's not a chore for me.

Don't get me wrong. I'll get Gara when I get her. No hurry here. 

And fishing is fun, though it should not be required.

But DE need to step it up on Bounties. Or give Gara BPs a chance to drop from enemies and containers in the open world. Four Bounty missions...is a long way from sufficient variety to make this a focus.

[Oreades]

I'll be honest I have farmed every frame in the game but Gara is probably my least favorite farm of them all. 

I played quite a bit from launch and the lions share was trying to get her parts to drop. From starting when PoE launched (I want to say last thursday?) I got exactly nothing for all that grinding save a few (two to be specific) "common" set mods that because of the diluted loot table seem to drop more like rares. Then the game decided that it was time to give me RNG and dropped her whole set over the span of an hour or two. Did another hours or so worth of resource grinding, mostly fishing and honestly I don't mind fishing so that was actually somewhat cathartic for me. Tossed those in the oven, logged in this morning to toss her into the oven ....... and I'm taking a break from Warframe for a bit. 

Seems like most of the time when I say hers was my least enjoyed the people who I am talking to immediately say something like "Even over Equinox" or insert one of the other more grindtastic frame farms. My answer is still yes even over "Equinox" and here is why. 

Most frames, even those buried behind endless missions still reward you for your time in the form of resources/mods/etc. 9.7/10 The bounties do not, I get that they don't want to flood people with plains resources because they want people to play the plains..... but when the drop table literally has one thing on it of any real value and when you don't get it.... you really feel like you are wasting your time. Especially when the bounty reward you do get are so trivial, like super common plains resources in amounts you would have gathered more quickly if you had not done the bounty at all. 

The next killer for me was extraction time. Again with most frames your time to extraction is maybe ~10 seconds. The bounties slowly drag you farther and farther out into the boondocks. Then they expect you to bullet jump back to the gate which can take upwards of a minute+ then and only then do you get to sit through the loading screen. Twice if you end up taking another bounty, three times if you decide to do anything else on the starchart. Tho you normally sit through two loading screens when you are grinding frame blueprints, I can not think of another frame that required me to waste so much time to get to extraction. The closest equivalent I can draw would be if they turned the extraction point in normal missions into more of a "relay" point at which point you where expected to run back all the way to your insertion point. 

Spoiler

That gets into another issue that I had with the plains and that is Archwing, they really pushed Archwing as being super awesome during their demos but in practice it feels significantly less awesome. For starters the recourses required even tho reduced are still pretty high if you plan on using it liberally on the plains. Each bounty mission would in theory consume 5 charges minimum, assuming you didn't get hit with the archaic MMO dismount mechanic. Which means each set of 50 charges will only get you through 10 bounties. You can get a lot more mileage out of them if you only use them to get to extraction which does take a lot of the edge off of that..... but either way really just seems to relegates Archwing from something that makes the plains more awesome to something that just makes the plains less tedious. That doesn't even cover the outright removal of AW weapons (which I kinda understand) or the nerfing of AW abilities. 

I probably would have taken issue with her resource costs to some extent but by the time I finally had her I was rolling in all of them save for the eel chargers. I suppose I should be somewhat thankful that I didn't get her until after they changed the resource crafting recipes to work in multiples of 10. Cause if I had to sit at the foundry for upwards of 30+ minutes I definitely would have lost it at that point. Tho it also means that when you want to refine those resources in the future you better be able to do it in multiples of 10 even if you only need one or two more to meet your goal. This highlights why the foundry really needs some kind of queue system. For that I would suggest a per item queue limit of say 30 minutes. Which lets you queue every "quick" build item in the game but naturally disallows queuing things like forma since a single forma has a time that would exceed the 30minute item limit. As I think part of the reason they have avoided a queue is they don't want people queuing a bunch of forma and ditching the game for a month. 

 

All of that said, most of the issues I have with the Gara farm could easily be outright taken care of or at the very least mitigated significantly with some QoL changes. 

For bounties, change up the loot tables. It is possible to make a drop table that both helps new players and doesn't continually feel like it's slapping veteran players in the face with a Lung Fish. A less dilute table would be awesome but if you absolutely feel the need to keep it watered down then award something from the drop table at Evey checkpoint in the bounty. Just like you get a reward from each incursion. Bounties should also always award faction, it double kills motivation when you get what amounts to junk loot on top of not getting any faction for running a bounty for the nTH time. 

For the plains, a system that allowed you to take on new bounties or even repeat the current bounty from within the plains streamlines everything and eliminates to a large extent the loading times. Tho it would probably suffer from the same issues of needing to bullet jump over large distances to get to the new bounty. As far as Archwing goes, I get that they want a resource sink and it is really hard to do that and give people the freedom they need to make AW feel really good. At least rework the dismount mechanics somehow because getting grazed by an errant bullet should not drop you out of AW. 

[Anthraxicus]

2 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

The topic kinda devolves into something that is... technically not true.
Let me clarify things : when I buy frames with platinum, it is because either I want to keep my sanity, desire to get the frame naow, or to support DE.

In the case of Gara : The means to acquiring her is not nearly as bad as we blow it out of proportion. Out of the "classical" frames - Limbo, Chroma, Mesa, Vauban were a lot worse  - they have worse gating and RNG modifier. 

The reason why I really CBA to deal with Gara is due to... Kinda being boring frame, that does not fit PoE no matter how much Glass puns they can do? Bounties that are exercise in boring/buggy?

Like, let's not devulge into "DE wants us to pay for Gara, hence why she is so annoying to farm"
 

What you are saying makes no sense. Limbo and Chroma are very easy to get. The only problem on getting Chroma is part that you need parts of other warframes, and you basically need to be in a clan to BUY the Volt part required. No RNG involved. Chroma parts are rewards for completing junctions. Again, no RNG involved whatsover. You get it as part of the progression on the game.

The only three a bit more problematic for me were Mesa, Octavia and Harrow. For Octavia, her last part only drops on rotation C of Derelict Survival and has over 22% chance of dropping. I got it on my third try. Harrow last part drops on rotation C of Kuva Spy, and although it as lower chance of dropping, it still is higher than any of the Gara parts, plus you also get a reward for each rotation and can also get extremely useful rare mods while farming for the part, like Scorch, Frigid Blast and Thermite Rounds. Finally, the only problem I've encountered while farming Mesa is that I didn't farm Mutalist Alad nav coordinates before trying to get Mesa. If I had farmed those before, I would have no problems because killing the Alad is easy, quick and is guaranteed to drop a part. Super easy. 
Aside from getting all the parts, building them are no problem at all, as you probably have all the resources anyway, unlike with Gara.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Anthraxicus

[phoenix1992]

Just now, Anthraxicus said:

What you are saying makes no sense. Limbo and Chroma are very easy to get. The only problem on getting Chroma is part that you need parts of other warframes, and you basically need to be in a clan to BUY the Volt part required. No RNG involved. 

 

Oh let me be more specific.

I have to mention that i got the listed frames in 2015 - no focus, no specters of the rails, rivens or many other things ^^ 
And please - follow the rest of the topic.

[shoopypit]

What's the rush in getting her? I remember grinding for hydroid when he was first released. That was @(*()$ insane. Honestly the bigger issue is that the rewards are @(*()$ terrible. They're fun, but they take a while to complete leaving players not wanting to play them due to not having enough incentive.

[LordLokai]

10 hours ago, k05h said:

Okay, once again the depressing math behind a 7.37% drop chance.

This means you have to do 30 (thirty) bounty 1 bounties to have a 90% chance of at least one drop of Gara's chassi. And it also means you have to run another 30 (thirty) bounty 2 bounties to have a 90% chance of at least one drop of Gara's systems. And you might have guessed it, another 30 (thirty) bounty 3 bounties to have a 90% chance of at least one drop. 

Thirty each is 90 bounties altogether ... to have a 90% chance for a drop. If you want to min-max your time investment I would suggest farming other stuff and buy the frame directly. 

Here is the math behind it: http://wfsoc.larshaendler.com/?percent=7.37

My issue is i don't believe its 7.37% chance, i think it's lower... as much as i love DE as a company and i do they make such great titles, and Warframes shows what kind of passion they have for there games. But the issue is they basically filed a lawsuit to force data mining to stop, now the issue is this...

1: A company telling you numbers and having no way to verify those numbers is a problem, because what happens if they " lie " about the actual numbers

2: Filing a lawsuit against data miners effectively makes it appear as if they have something to hide...

3: They fudged numbers in the past and got caught doing it by data miners...

Basically i want to trust DE but, we all know it is in there BEST interest not to tell the truth, to set the drop chance MUCH lower and then tell us its 7.37% chance when its probably more like  1-2% chance because i've gotten everything on the bounty board except for the parts, and while i did finally get one part... getting 1 part out of 3 in like 5 days is fishy i've played a LOOONG time and i can tell you this drop rate is probably the lowest since ivara... and she was pretty abysmal to get... it's not just bad luck either i feel like they shut down data miners so they can hide the real RNG because if we knew the real chances we'd probably blow a gasket.

Edit:

To be clear i own ever warframe in the game outside of Excalibur prime as i wasn't paying 100+ dollars for founders pack on a game i felt at the time was under cooked (and i stand by that and am just happy it came so far) so i have never paid plat for a frame SOMETIMES i will pay plat for a part i am having bad look getting when it comes to primes. But even that's pretty rare. So when i say Gara is legit the worst frame to farm i don't say it because i'm having a bit of bad luck i say it out of experience...

I've farmed limbo the proper way

i farmed ivara the proper way

i farmed nidus the proper way

none of them and i mean NONE of them are as frustraitingly bad as Gara... and shes not even a frame i go ga ga over i just want her for my collection ...

Edited October 19, 2017 by LordLokai

[Rojeen]

I find farming for Prime parts more rewarding than this lul 

Why do they have to make her farming method hard? I mean her abilites are terrible since they dont scale much when fighting against grineer and her 3 is not even good CC against infested.

[----DB----DeepBluEgg]

6 hours ago, Rojeen said:

I find farming for Prime parts more rewarding than this lul 

Why do they have to make her farming method hard? I mean her abilites are terrible since they dont scale much when fighting against grineer and her 3 is not even good CC against infested.

Did you play with her ? I doubt that. She has great def line for survival games, kuva missions. Her glass wall holds pretty much everyhing except energy bubbled corpsus.

[Lievene]

On 19/10/2017 at 11:21 AM, Colyeses said:

I'm assuming that henceforth, DE will experiment more with time delays on farming warframes. They tried it with Ne Zha, but 24 hours per try was a bit too long, so now they're running it on Gara with 2.5 hours. The harder the warframe is to acquire, the better it is for DE, so expect them to make things worse for players as time goes on.

I've been farming for one part for over four days now. And if my luck holds up, I'll be farming for her for a couple weeks more. And all it does is make me not want to play Warframe, so I just log in, hit the bounty, and altF4 when the 5K credits, 100 Endo, or worse, the common mod drops. Can't even be bothered to head back to Cetus.

I am also not going to buy her specifically because I don't want to support this.

you don't have to wait till the bounty refresh to claim a reward from the drop table , you can do the sma ebounty over and over until you drop that part , you just don't get the standing for the try after the first ^^

 

[DiosGX]

Oh no I can't have the brand new thing RIGHT NOW.

 

How long did it take you to Farm for Mesa? Are you for real? Such impatience trying to rush though content that is so large it requires vast amounts of polish. But you want to be done with it before it's really got its last few coats of wax on? All this self-entitlement has no place in here, and only serves to make your (valid) points seem like childish complaining.

[0asu]

On 10/22/2017 at 5:23 PM, DiosGX said:

Oh no I can't have the brand new thing RIGHT NOW.

 

How long did it take you to Farm for Mesa? Are you for real? Such impatience trying to rush though content that is so large it requires vast amounts of polish. But you want to be done with it before it's really got its last few coats of wax on? All this self-entitlement has no place in here, and only serves to make your (valid) points seem like childish complaining.

It took me 3 days with an organized clan farm to get Mesa. I've been grinding Gara since PoE dropped and only have the systems blueprint

[Borg1611]

I farmed her in probably fewer missions than it took me to farm some others, but it was annoying for other reasons. It would have been less annoying if bounties gave standing when you repeat them. Then the repetitive farm for her parts would at least have had a meaningful consolation prize when you didn't get the BP, other than whatever useless crap I got that I cared so little for that I simply aborted immediately to get back to cetus faster (in theory it saved the rewards anyway when you complete a bounty according to patch notes, but whenever I care about something I always go back to town manually to be safe).

There's really no valid reason to only let you get standing from a bounty once per 3 hours when there's a daily cap. 

[HadouGun]

Tried farming for the Chassis just then, I got at least 4 [Intensify], lots of credits, Gorkgul, Pressure point multiple times. Still nothing good.

 

Need to find a way to AFK the first bounty tier because it's so boring.

[racooperii]

I actually don't mind the Gara grind, at least in comparison to Harrow. Having to do Defection to rotation C, when the AI is too stupid to know how to properly use a stair case is a bit...annoying to say the least.

[Lazer166]

I think that there should be a more reliable way of obtaining Gara maybe having it as part of the loot table for a boss such as Vor since all he drops is the Seer parts.

[Vesperos]

Well in compare to Ivara i obtained the parts for Gara way quicker so that i just need to do some mindless fishing and mining now to build her just to have it sitting in my foundry until i will have another 75% plat discount cus i don´t have any space to put more frames or weapons into my slots.

However if i would have not to count i think it took me nearly 15-20 times for each part to recieve them while on the other hand i still need Ivaras Chassis, Neuroptics and the Main BP even when i do around 10 Spy missions day in hope to obtain her stuff what requires all 3 data vaults hacked perfectly to have the CHANCE to obtain the BPS.

In compare to this the droptable for Gara is way better then the table for Ivara for me. Sure it might not have been the smartes move considering all this standing farming that needs to be done anyways cus some mats are required where you need the BP 1st to craft it anyways but still better then Ivaras stupid system.

[Zeranov]

I got Gara's parts by grinding bounties for Ostron standing, so I could level up and buy the Murkray bait I required for my Operator amp.

Took a week to assemble the amp and afterwards I already had two of her parts. So I think obtaining Gara is a longterm goal and in contrast to frames like Nidus or Mesa it can be done passively. Even had a good bunch of ressources left from farming towards the amp so I could also craft some of Gara's components, through the eel requirement was quite annoying.

And if everything fails... there is still RNGesus to blame. And this is coming from a guy who needed over 70 attempts to finally get a complete Equinox set, while my buddy got it in about 30.

By the way... I don't think DE is going full PWE since the newer frames. If you look at the way Banshee was obtained in the early days... yeah, let's rather say DE just isn't skilled in designing rewards vs. invested time. It certainly improved over the years, but PoE shows that they still have a lot to learn or to finally hire an economics designer.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Zeranov

[Lisztomaniac]

On 10/19/2017 at 2:06 AM, LordLokai said:

4k credits? REALLY try 40-50k and maybe it'd be worth it... but 4k? that's insulting!

Fix the !$@$% bounty drops already... its ridiculous!

MAYBE

cant fix the drops, cause it aint fishing, want quality content with regular updates, to its core mechanics, and fixes to its bugs? go fish.

[Lion]

I really don't mind the model, to be honest. Does it force you to buy the frame? Maybe. Can you get it with enough time invested and work? Probably.

To be honest, DE lets you play 100% of their updates absolutely free, and everything in their game (aside from tennogen/steam exclusives/cosmetics/etc) can be earned absolutely free. Does it suck for free players? Yes, but they need to make money somehow, because they aren't making it from paid expansions like other F2P games. And for every person unwilling to buy frames from the market, there are just as many that are willing to.

 

If she's too hard to farm regularly, then farm the plat it takes to buy her.

[Lisztomaniac]

25 minutes ago, Aveu said:

I really don't mind the model, to be honest. Does it force you to buy the frame? Maybe. Can you get it with enough time invested and work? Probably.

To be honest, DE lets you play 100% of their updates absolutely free, and everything in their game (aside from tennogen/steam exclusives/cosmetics/etc) can be earned absolutely free. Does it suck for free players? Yes, but they need to make money somehow, because they aren't making it from paid expansions like other F2P games. And for every person unwilling to buy frames from the market, there are just as many that are willing to.

 

If she's too hard to farm regularly, then farm the plat it takes to buy her.

nah dude, that the tipical excuse to avoid the problem rather than solving it, 2 years ago i would have been on your side. but things have changed so much and so little, that i find myself reconsidering my plat purchases more time after time.

 and its not that the quality or prices of the stuff they release has decreased, hell deluxe skins are the only reason i force myself for plat( if im going to leave this game eventually im going to leave the warframes i love with their deluxe skins), but looking at how as time goes by they just keep bloating the store and the loot tables and increasing RNG, all so that every update the games feels more and more tedious * instead of more fun, because if the player gets sick of it he will pay*  has made me disgusted at DE.    i get they have to eat, give me quality content (not just fashionfram), give me bosses that make me believe you took more than a week designing his battle, and ill funnel money into the game, but dont expect me to see a  expansion where you can fish, and nothing else, there is new S#&$, but you need to fish for all the other content which hardlt warrants the hours of fishing required, plus there is really still no engame, teralyst is hardly midgame.

 so as i say, i understand your "DE lets you play free", yeah thats cool ive been paying all these years and ive never considered "paying", because honestly i felt i was giving the game too little money for what it deserved, now ive played the same content for over 3 or 4 years, and i feel like for about 2 years now, the game hasnt changed at all, and ive been still giving money to the same game, and while i dont consider that a loss, now that i feel ive gotten my moneys worth with the game content, the lack of meaningfull new content just makes me want to take that money somewhere else, even a pack of "lootboxes"from any other game feels like a better investment these days.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Lisztomaniac

[Dragazhar]

Guys.. I know you are distraught about the drop rate.. but I do not think the rate is that bad, it just seems like bad luck. I got her after 3 days of doing buggy bounties over and over. I completely understand the frustration tho.. I have been farming for Hydroid Prime's blueprint relic constantly with a friend since he came out and could never get a decent amount of relics for it.. Meso n5. Not saying I did not get any.. I did get some.. and the void run would never produce the uncommon drop. My friend and I were very unlucky so we ended up buying the bp off the trade chat.

[Lisztomaniac]

7 minutes ago, Dragazhar said:

Guys.. I know you are distraught about the drop rate.. but I do not think the rate is that bad, it just seems like bad luck. I got her after 3 days of doing buggy bounties over and over. I completely understand the frustration tho.. I have been farming for Hydroid Prime's blueprint relic constantly with a friend since he came out and could never get a decent amount of relics for it.. Meso n5. Not saying I did not get any.. I did get some.. and the void run would never produce the uncommon drop. My friend and I were very unlucky so we ended up buying the bp off the trade chat.

oh i wasnt talking about gara, havent even tried farming her, i was talking about the game in general, the game in general is bloated with RNG ways to get stuff instead of dificult/fun/skill-demanding ways to do so, back in th days of the void at least that felt like endgame, it was eeasy eventually, but coming in as a new player and seeing that there was this awesome difficult map, that would literally throw prime parts at you, for doing good, it felt rewarding, it felt like a go to place to have fun, a place to aim (i guess in a sense it gave direction to the game) and even when some parts where RNG wasnt a friend either, but the farming wasnt a chore to do (arguably). now even tho primes are in my mind somewhat easier to get, they are just another chore to do, just with a better reward.

 

but this is offthread so ill end it here.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Lisztomaniac