Focus 2.0: Focus Exp = Not Fun

[racooperii]

11 minutes ago, SnowCat84 said:

Worst part - they don't give us any other alternatives, players just have to find new ways to abuse gameplay mechanics.

At least Draco was fun all-out-shoot-out :(

It's a case of the Developer trying to enforce their ideal play style. It almost always does far more harm than good as they don't address the source of issue driving players to mindlessly play one map over and over.

[John_LV]

In my opinion large amount of focus could get by using operation in missions, by using their abilities without any lenses. With focus lenses you could get additional focus. It could be good way to incentivise payers to use operators. 

 

P.S. sorry if someone mentioned something similar, I don't want to read 9 pages :D 

[DiabolusUrsus]

The diminishing returns from the stream is actually brilliant, but makes removal of convergence even more imperative. 

[MirageKnight]

At least they're discussing finding alternatives to Convergence, so I guess that's a good sign.

[racooperii]

2 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

At least they're discussing finding alternatives to Convergence, so I guess that's a good sign.

Discussing and doing are different actions, and until I see some kind of road-map or plan to fix it I have zero confidence in them...especially after trying to farm for Harrow again and the pure frustration of Defection AI. Seriously, how long has it been since that game mode came out and they still haven't fixed that AI? I shouldn't have to run Trinity to keep them alive long enough to figure out how to use a god damn stairwell....

[ProfessorLitmus]

15 minutes ago, racooperii said:

Discussing and doing are different actions, and until I see some kind of road-map or plan to fix it I have zero confidence in them...especially after trying to farm for Harrow again and the pure frustration of Defection AI. Seriously, how long has it been since that game mode came out and they still haven't fixed that AI? I shouldn't have to run Trinity to keep them alive long enough to figure out how to use a god damn stairwell....

indeed, lets not forget that they "discussed" mutagen drops and then did nothing about it back with the Hema. after all Steve seems to think a drop in the desert is rain so any focus xp at all is probably a huge amount in his eyes.

[Oreades]

Whelp I have to say everything I heard from the devstream in regards to Focus gains makes me hopeful. I just hope it bears fruit. 

[MirageKnight]

27 minutes ago, racooperii said:

Discussing and doing are different actions, and until I see some kind of road-map or plan to fix it I have zero confidence in them...especially after trying to farm for Harrow again and the pure frustration of Defection AI. Seriously, how long has it been since that game mode came out and they still haven't fixed that AI? I shouldn't have to run Trinity to keep them alive long enough to figure out how to use a god damn stairwell....

Oh I completely agree with you. This is why we need to keep pestering them about this issue - and publically so that they can't just ignore the issue, but actually have to do something about it.

8 minutes ago, ProfessorLitmus said:

indeed, lets not forget that they "discussed" mutagen drops and then did nothing about it back with the Hema. after all Steve seems to think a drop in the desert is rain so any focus xp at all is probably a huge amount in his eyes.

Don't remind me...that's still a sore point I have with Steve and Scott, their willingness to dig in their heels and blow us off, even at the risk of angering players that are also their source of revenue. That's...chutzpah right there.

[DiabolusUrsus]

14 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Whelp I have to say everything I heard from the devstream in regards to Focus gains makes me hopeful. I just hope it bears fruit. 

I'll look forward to reviewing that discussion myself, then; all my info is currently secondhand.

DE should realize they can capitalize on perpetual beta for this one... If they can respec twice they can respec 3 times if need be.

Just test out promising solutions and go from there.

[racooperii]

19 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Whelp I have to say everything I heard from the devstream in regards to Focus gains makes me hopeful. I just hope it bears fruit. 

Wish i was able to hear that part, only snippet I got to listen to sounded like a list of excuses on why this update turned out as it did. Needless to say hearing that and then trying defection again with that ‘brilliant’ AI left a poor taste in my mouth.

[Satchii]

id love to remove the stupid focus cap focus have been there so long that i just want it done, before i get tired of the game, the main problem ive had is that i never managed to get to apoint where i can experiment, for now, i recoment to everyone to only unock affinity booster on naruman if you want faster tenno go for that, then go vor the usefull schools vazarin will increase your hp to 650 and give hp regeneration, zenuric for energy pool and regen for void shift, madurai for amp ammo cap and regen, then just have passive lenzes on for rest of dawn of time and unlock whatever you get after that this will still take about 150 days tho

 

[Kalvorax]

3 minutes ago, Satchii said:

id love to remove the stupid focus cap focus have been there so long that i just want it done

they are going to be doing exactly that, go see the devstream overview

 

[Satchii]

how bout making plains the most efficent place to farm focus since it has the most verience of mission types in a sence and add a flat focus that scales with level of enemy so that i dont have to play so many exterminates with stealth afinity, I like the occational stealth take down sneaky aproach some times but it feels forced since its the most effective focus gain

could always add an mission type that worked like kuva that was constantly moving

suggestions are for most part pointless i gues

[Fleuria]

Eh... I had millions in each tree from Focus 1.0 and I stopped playing like almost a year before 2.0 came out, I am back now because of 2.0 and am sort of regretting not doing sorties between then and now. (But I am maxed out on Riven storage, so I sort of do not regret stopping, also.) But, also, I did not really understand the waybound system initially, and I re-spent a lot of that in ways which I now think conflict with optimal investment.

I am not all that great of a focus farmer, either. I rarely get 50k in a day (sometimes I try, but I usually get bored playing longer than that).

But... anyways... if this is one of those topics which cannot really be explained, I guess I should just go away or something. But, also, I do not feel any obligation to hit the cap (and I expect to have most of the waybound passives I care about unlocked within a few weeks).

[Rinteru]

Il y a 10 heures, Fleuria a dit :

Eh... I had millions in each tree from Focus 1.0 and I stopped playing like almost a year before 2.0 came out, I am back now because of 2.0 and am sort of regretting not doing sorties between then and now. (But I am maxed out on Riven storage, so I sort of do not regret stopping, also.) But, also, I did not really understand the waybound system initially, and I re-spent a lot of that in ways which I now think conflict with optimal investment.

I am not all that great of a focus farmer, either. I rarely get 50k in a day (sometimes I try, but I usually get bored playing longer than that).

But... anyways... if this is one of those topics which cannot really be explained, I guess I should just go away or something. But, also, I do not feel any obligation to hit the cap (and I expect to have most of the waybound passives I care about unlocked within a few weeks).

All depends on the school however and how much points you've got saved up. Cuz for example zenurik waybounds costs around 2-3milion focus each to unlock not mentioning pools, so if you started from the scratch it would take you between 40-60 days if you get 50k focus each day for each node. If you hit the cap it would take you 8 to 12 days thou same for one node. Ofc not counting eidolon shard cuz it depends on oneself time to do those and not counting that you have to also upgrade the pool.

Personnaly i dont mind getting a node with a week or 2 of farming. But month or 2 is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay tooo much and gains we get by obtaining a node are negligible.

 

Edited November 12, 2017 by Rinteru

[Wolfchild07]

Remove focus gains from combat and stop forcing people to bring high damage frames. Add it as mission rewards or something else. Lenses can still give you a bonus if they're equipped.

[Fleuria]

It does seem odd that Focus 2.0 requires varying amounts of "pool points" for every point of focus ability. I do not understand that part of the system.

It also seems odd that the Focus lens mechanics push players towards specializing in just a few weapons which is in direct conflict with the Riven mechanics stated goal of getting players to branch out and use non-meta weapons.

I do not know if there are any good solutions here.

[Nez-Kal]

Dear Diary:

I have once again left my squad to die, and abandoned the mission objective, just to try and squeeze out a little more juice from the poorly timed Convergence Orb. I have to say, maybe there was a chance they wouldn't have died nearby that Kuva Siphon, but once those Stalker flickers started I knew the best direction for me to go in was actually away from them, not towards them to help, and into the biggest, most enemy filled room I could, as I only had 20s left on the orbs very short life span. I'd have to say, this was cruel, but it certainly didn't top the time I blew out a window in the Corpus Ship Tile Set right behind me in order to trap the World on Fire Ember so that my Mirage's Prism could get more kills in the connected rooms ahead of me, or the time in an Eximus Stronghold Mobile Defense when I literally avoided shooting enemies near my team-mates while Focus Farming with Mesa's Peacemakers with the hope, which did come to fruition, that they would be downed by those enemies, thus allowing me to have more enemies to kill myself. Every day I find myself growing more cold, and more toxic towards other Public Squad members, as I root for their failure and my own success, instead of attempting to lift them up with me. If there was a way to Rad Proc one's self, I know I would certainly do it, just so I could down all those Focus Stealing Tenno Skoom, and take it all for myself.

 

With love, "I can feel my Heart growing darker and darker" Valley

Edited January 14, 2018 by Tangent-Valley

[(PSN)Musicopia]

3 hours ago, Tangent-Valley said:

Dear Diary:

I have once again left my squad to die, and abandoned the mission objective, just to try and squeeze out a little more juice from the poorly timed Convergence Orb. I have to say, maybe there was a chance they wouldn't have died nearby that Kuva Siphon, but once those Stalker flickers started I knew the best direction for me to go in was actually away from them, not towards them to help, and into the biggest, most enemy filled room I could, as I only had 20s left on the orbs very short life span. I'd have to say, this was cruel, but it certainly didn't top the time I blew out a window in the Corpus Ship Tile Set right behind me in order to trap the World on Fire Ember so that my Mirage's Prism could get more kills in the connected rooms ahead of me, or the time in an Eximus Stronghold Mobile Defense when I literally avoided shooting enemies near my team-mates while Focus Farming with Mesa's Peacemakers with the hope, which did come to fruition, that they would be downed by those enemies, thus allowing me to have more enemies to kill myself. Every day I find myself growing more cold, and more toxic towards other Public Squad members, as I root for their failure and my own success, instead of attempting to lift them up with me. If there was a way to Rad Proc one's self, I know I would certainly do it, just so I could down all those Focus Stealing Tenno Skoom, and take it all for myself.

 

With love, "I can feel my Heart growing darker and darker" Valley

That was a very well thought out and elegant necro and I can see the inner turmoil is really starting to wear on you.

 

My condolences, 

A Fellow Focus Farmer 

[Lluid]

What do you guys think of a system where focus gains would be 10x higher than now, but with a decreasing efficiency for each warframe/weapon ?

It would be balanced so that it would take the same total affinity as now to reach the daily focus limit with one warframe+weapon, but would be much faster if you're using a variety of warframes and weapons.

Example of how it could be calculated (be prepared for complex sentences) : With n an integer, after reaching a nth of the total focus at a 10*r rate (r is the current rate), the rate of the focus gains for one lens would be reduced to
r * (n-1)/(n-1/10)

Numeric example: for n=4 and one single lens, you'd get one forth of your daily focus gains at 10x rate, then it would be reduced to 77% of the current rate if you stick with the same lens, reaching the daily cap in the same amount of total affinity. But if you switch the warframe/weapon between missions 4 times, you'll reach the total 10x faster.

A more reasonable example would be n=16, meaning you'd need 4 complete sets of {warframe + 3weapons} equipped with lenses to reach the cap 10x faster than now, while with only 1 complete set it would be reduced to 90% after a 16th of the daily cap for each weapon, reaching to daily cap as slowly as now in total.

[BlackVortex]

I finished maxing out all my trees and pool, I think it should remain the same, because it would be rather unfair I had to suffer for two years and everyone else who hasn't finished it yet gets a free pass

[Vryheid]

3 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

I finished maxing out all my trees and pool, I think it should remain the same, because it would be rather unfair I had to suffer for two years and everyone else who hasn't finished it yet gets a free pass

I've never been a fan of this argument because it reeks of "back in my day we had to walk two miles through a foot of snow to get to school" while simultaneously saying you clearly didn't like it. If you honestly thought focus farming was "suffering", why do you want to keep the system exactly the same? Don't you think it should at least be a little better than that?

[BlackVortex]

7 minutes ago, Vryheid said:

I've never been a fan of this argument because it reeks of "back in my day we had to walk two miles through a foot of snow to get to school" while simultaneously saying you clearly didn't like it. If you honestly thought focus farming was "suffering", why do you want to keep the system exactly the same? Don't you think it should at least be a little better than that?

it's like you play an mmorpg, you take 2 years to get to level 100 playing every day for 8-10 hours. Then when you finish, they release a quest that instantly makes any character jump from any level to level 100. It's just unfair.

Is the current system a suffering? It is if you want to max everything out in one day.

it takes long to complete everything yes, but there is no hardcap anymore on how much focus you can farm in a day.

I can reach my focus cap(250K) in 2-3 extermination missions without an exp booster. And I non stop farmed the Teralyst to get another 2-3KK focus a day.

I do agree its a pain that you need to do the focus grind every day and you cant skip a day or you will practically have lost the opportunity. For that I would say, add a focus ticket(250K) in the game, that if you played enough on a day, you get to earn that ticket.

With that ticket you get a one time increase of the amount of focus you can gain, so you can also save up those tickets to do it all in one day.

This way you will not be able to go faster than 250K a day, but you will be able to get that focus on any day you desire.

for people who don't like the cap, just spam Teralyst like I did.

for people complaining the focus gain is too low I only have this to show:

one extermination run on Sedna>Adaro with an affinity booster yielding 202.058 focus

[Lluid]

il y a 2 minutes, BlackVortex a dit :

people complaining the focus gain is too low I only have this to show

What you don't understand is that we don't want to be forced to play Adaro for focus. We don't like that kind of farming. In my case, it was only enjoyable until I figured out how to max it, and then it became a chore. I can't do it.

Similarly, I enjoy fighting the Teralyst once per day, maybe twice. Can't have fun doing more than that, so I don't. But there's no point in looking for brillant shards anyway since I don't even reach 20% of my daily focus although playing for hours.

il y a 2 minutes, BlackVortex a dit :

It's just unfair.

The more examples we have of "unfair" changes, the more I think they are fair. We can consider there are two populations of veteran players who are deeply invested in the game :

- those who want everything, maxed, as fast as possible, and would play any boring mission to get what they want. The grind can be fun in that sense, for them.
- those who play more casually and get everything slowly, keep playing for fun and end up maxing things without noticing, without getting bored.

When new objects are added to the game they require quite some farming, which is perfect for the 1st group. But the risk is loosing the 2nd group, so the developers reduce the grind and they come back, so everybody gets the game experience on a different level. It is fine ! Because in the end, although you feel betrayed, you spent hours and hours to get something and you got it. Your hours were not lost. You kept playing and must have had fun doing so. Else you should consider joining us in the 2nd group, we're quite numerous.

The problem with focus farming is that the 2nd group will never reach the end, because of the "abysmal" gains during normal gameplay. But in my case, it was the same when PoE was launched : Ostron and Quills standing was too tedious, I simply got bored and left for 2 months. They changed the system to make it more accessible and now I have a feeling of progression when going to the plains so I'm enjoying it.

Is it fair ? Yes because every player gets a gaming experience that suits his own requirements. We don't compete, we don't compare. What's important is to make sure the game can offer hours of fun gameplay, while satisfying our completionist tendencies, for everyone who loves it.

 

 

 

 

 

[BlackVortex]

6 minutes ago, Lluid said:

What you don't understand is that we don't want to be forced to play Adaro for focus. We don't like that kind of farming. In my case, it was only enjoyable until I figured out how to max it, and then it became a chore. I can't do it.

Similarly, I enjoy fighting the Teralyst once per day, maybe twice. Can't have fun doing more than that, so I don't. But there's no point in looking for brillant shards anyway since I don't even reach 20% of my daily focus although playing for hours.

The more examples we have of "unfair" changes, the more I think they are fair. We can consider there are two populations of veteran players who are deeply invested in the game :

- those who want everything, maxed, as fast as possible, and would play any boring mission to get what they want. The grind can be fun in that sense, for them.
- those who play more casually and get everything slowly, keep playing for fun and end up maxing things without noticing, without getting bored.

When new objects are added to the game they require quite some farming, which is perfect for the 1st group. But the risk is loosing the 2nd group, so the developers reduce the grind and they come back, so everybody gets the game experience on a different level. It is fine ! Because in the end, although you feel betrayed, you spent hours and hours to get something and you got it. Your hours were not lost. You kept playing and must have had fun doing so. Else you should consider joining us in the 2nd group, we're quite numerous.

The problem with focus farming is that the 2nd group will never reach the end, because of the "abysmal" gains during normal gameplay. But in my case, it was the same when PoE was launched : Ostron and Quills standing was too tedious, I simply got bored and left for 2 months. They changed the system to make it more accessible and now I have a feeling of progression when going to the plains so I'm enjoying it.

Is it fair ? Yes because every player gets a gaming experience that suits his own requirements. We don't compete, we don't compare. What's important is to make sure the game can offer hours of fun gameplay, while satisfying our completionist tendencies, for everyone who loves it.

I agree with most of what you say, but you still have no valid argument to say how its fair for the people who have worked in the current system and had to undergo all the troubles. How will they be compensated?

its the same thing if rivens where to be able to get stat locks on rerolls.

certain people have spent 3-5K platinum on an item because it was unique, but with a stat lock system it wouldnt be anymore and that person would just have wasted his platinum if a week or two later everyone can have the same thing for only 50p