Opinion on the new "generation" of warframe players?

[blueboy90780]

If you have looked at the steam chart on warframe recently, you'd know that warframe player base has been booming recently. The total playtime has reached it's peak ever since the release of Plains Of Eidolon. A lot of old veterans are coming back and I'm no exception - and I'm glad to say that, the new state of this game has returned my the hype I felt during my first year of warframe, really brings back the nostalgia. However, with the new update - the main contributors to the high playerbase are the new players that have been coming into warframe lately. And you can noticeably distinguish these players throughout the game, it's because of this group that has made me concerned for this game. This, ladies and gentlemen, is what I wish to discuss about today.

Warframe has a friendly community, I'm daring enough to say that it is the very least to have the most friendly community in the MMO category out there. However, this state is a fragile state - it can be easily be toxicated if enough players starts doing it. Which is what happens to many game. My concern lies on the basis that these new "generation" (as I like to call it) of warframe players does not entirely comply or at the very least be able to distinguish this key feature in the game. I don't know about you guys, but a lot of the new players that I have met so far are extremely rude and yet immature, they look down on their seniors and get angried when they do not get revived throughout the game. I mean, hell, I've seen a MR4 calling a MR24 a "noob" just because he did not help him, when that MR24 was the one carrying our whole team to victory. There were also other scenarios in which the new players shows no sense of respect whatsoever to other players.

I've talked to several of these new warframes and found out they came from popular MMO, such as Dota and LoL... I'm not going to elaborate any further on this in fear that I may get banned for something that I'm unaware of or of something unreasonable. But this is simply what I wanted to talk about, what are your experience with these new players so far and how do you find them?

Edited November 7, 2017 by blueboy90780
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[4thBro]

Every interaction I've had with people has been pleasant. Speaking as a newcomer.

I also wish to confess my sins that a couple times in public games, I've called people useless

[METAHUMVN]

4 minutes ago, blueboy90780 said:

I mean, hell, I've seen a MR4 calling a MR24 a "noob" just because he did not help him, when that MR24 was the one carrying our whole team to victory. There were also other scenarios in which the new players shows no sense of respect whatsoever to other players.

I have the same fear. 

I don't just fear that a lot of the classic toxic MMO crowd is getting into Warframe. I fear that the existing community is becoming slightly toxic as well, mainly due to burnout. I also fear that many of the new players coming into the game, like you mentioned, don't really understand what Warframe stands for, mainly because they weren't here during the "hard times". In full disclosure, I joined around the same time that The Second Dream came out (during DE's big marketing push over the 2015 holiday season) so I'm sort of part of the new crowd per se, albeit not. However, I still learned the dynamics of the community and try to be a good member of it. 

I think this fear can be addressed by analyzing what made the Warframe community great in the first place. Was it the insane grind? The lack of a robust PvP culture? The kickbots? The type of people who have the patience to play a slow-burn game? The character of the devs? Rebecca's lovely voice as Space Mom soothing us all? Cute Ordis? Annoying Vay Hek? There are a myriad of reasons. And once these reasons start to go away, we can assume that the community will begin to become toxic. 

To be honest, I don't really care though, because at the end of the day, Warframe is a game about power and skill, and there's no way that an MR4 noob is going to beat an experienced MR24 player in terms of sheer ability. Yeah I know about the Draco-theory and how there are lots of MR20+ players who are still unskilled at the game, but tbh 99% of the players whom I have met who have reached Eagle rank (MR16+) know what they're doing most of the time and have endgame-level gear. 

I think this is an extremely important topic that you brought up; hopefully the community can talk about this and address this in a constructive manner. 

[Lady_Xenomorph]

Any new blood is welcomed here "shrieeeeek". No matter where they come any new player who cathed by the game and interests hold them long enough in this game is a good sin for the game. Some of my friends said warframe has weird atmpshere and the first 5 minutes not cathed their attention so not give any further chance to this game. I thinked about how this could be solved and make the game more catchy. The beginner tutorial level is nice for new players but maybe they need to rework the intro and give a different view on the game to catch those peoples whom could be cathed in the first five mins. A lot of potential player leave or not give a try to the game because the atmosphere and the story is not well written.

I am also relatively new player but I played less this game because of my life circumstances but I like this game and recently progressed so much.

Also the new players can give more variety to the table and more player to play with. 

[SpoonyBrad]

9 minutes ago, blueboy90780 said:

what are your experience with these new players so far and how do you find them?

I really haven't had much trouble with new players being trolls; not understanding their abilities, sure, but we were all new once. As to "how do you find them", that's pretty simple: look for the Frost Prime with a Soma Prime (who isn't MR 20+ from playing for years before those items were vaulted). There's your newbie.

[Totorochan]

9 minutes ago, blueboy90780 said:

...the new players that I have met so far are extremely rude and yet immature... get angried when they do not get revived... a MR4 calling a MR24 a "noob" just because he did not help him, when that MR24 was the one carrying our whole team to victory.

- carrying whole team

- not helping members of team

Well which is it? It can't be both.

Anyone else seeing a whole lot of red flags here?

In answer to your question: no, quite the opposite. Mostly I see veteran players waxing poetic about the things they used to accomplish, demanding respect for no other reason than 'I've been playing the game longer', and otherwise acting rude for the sake of feeling superior and elite.

[dEjAvU5566]

How do you judge so called new player? Mastery rank?

Maybe that rank 4 dude is a grandmaster founder 

Just saying.

[blueboy90780]

Just now, Totorochan said:

- carrying whole team

- not helping members of team

Well which is it? It can't be both.

Anyone else seeing a whole lot of red flags here?

In answer to your question: no, quite the opposite. Mostly I see veteran players waxing poetic about the things they used to accomplish, demanding respect for no other reason than 'I've been playing the game longer', and otherwise acting rude for the sake of feeling superior and elite.

I should have elaborated on that, he didn't revive the player when he was bleeding and he was right next to him. Mainly because he was surrounded by like 40+ level 80 enemies and had to gradually kill them all of before he can safely revive the guy.

[METAHUMVN]

1 minute ago, Totorochan said:

In answer to your question: no, quite the opposite. Mostly I see veteran players waxing poetic about the things they used to accomplish, demanding respect for no other reason than 'I've been playing the game longer', and otherwise acting rude for the sake of feeling superior and elite.

I do see what you're saying too. I feel like there comes a time when people have played Warframe a little too much that they become kind of jaded, per se. They get lazy. They'd rather sit in a corner and just press 4 while dropping a few nrg pads here and there to do whatever they're doing. I'm guilty of doing the same, especially when I'm tired or frustrated at something the game is doing. That could be why, and some tryhard noobs won't understand this sentiment. Once they get where we are though, they will come to understand just how exhausting this game can be. 

[blueboy90780]

1 minute ago, dEjAvU5566 said:

How do you judge so called new player? Mastery rank?

Maybe that rank 4 dude is a grandmaster founder 

Just saying.

Yes through mastery rank, why? Because it's the only source we have to make quick unreliable judgement on a player. Also, my post is relating to all of the new players, so it wouldn't change much if he was a grandmaster founder, since the examples I've provided where one of many...

[SilvaDreams]

4 minutes ago, blueboy90780 said:

I should have elaborated on that, he didn't revive the player when he was bleeding and he was right next to him. Mainly because he was surrounded by like 40+ level 80 enemies and had to gradually kill them all of before he can safely revive the guy.

I've run into that situation many times, it's either keep up the fight or die trying to revive the downed person.

I never understood why people get pissed at not getting revived at those moments, do they not see the horde of enemies that flattened them anymore?

The ones that annoy me are the ones who ignore you being downed completely and head off even though you killed everything while being down.

Edited November 7, 2017 by SilvaDreams

[blueboy90780]

Just now, SilvaDreams said:

I've run into that situation many times, it's either keep up the fight or die trying to revive the downed person.

In ever understood why people get pissed at not getting revived at those moments, do they not see the horde of enemies that flattened them anymore?

The ones that annoy me are the ones who ignore you being downed completely and head off even though you killed everything while being down.

I know, but he had good reasons to not revive him - it was for his own damn survival. He probably said that because he thinks he could survive a horde of enemies while reviving or maybe he didn't thought that far ahead of the consequences for reviving fallen players. But the main reason is most likely is that MR4 is arrogant and only wants to be revived not caring for his seniors that's trying to lead him

[METAHUMVN]

33 minutes ago, blueboy90780 said:

I've talked to several of these new warframes and found out they came from popular MMO, such as Dota and LoL... I'm not going to elaborate any further on this in fear that I may get banned for something that I'm unaware of or of something unreasonable. But this is simply what I wanted to talk about, what are your experience with these new players so far and how do you find them?

I have a few more thoughts, as I begin to read the other insightful responses. 

TBH, I think that we could be in the wisp of something. You see, Warframe is primarily a PvE game, and I think that's what sets us apart. Other players who came from PvP backgrounds are going to try to drag their ideas into the game, but to no avail. There will probably be a big schism between the "older crowd" and the "young crowd". But who knows.

The real issue is longevity. I don't know how many of the new players will actually stay in the game once they realize just how demanding this game can be. Of course, that's up to DE and how well they continue to update and upgrade this game, especially when it comes to new player experience (NPE), economy balancing, grinding methods, economic incentives, and community management. 

From my personal experience, I've been hitting up a lot of new Warframe streamers on Twitch (the ones that joined onboard during the Twitch drop event) and playing with them in-game, both on and off stream. Most of them express just how overwhelmed they are the initial kindness of the community, while equally acknowledging the inherently exhausting and opaque nature of the game.

They've also already complained a few times both to me and to their audiences about the "meta players" who are telling them that there's "only one way to do something". I feel them too, because honestly, even as an MR16+ player, there are times that I wish players could just focus on the game and stop criticizing inconsistencies in someone's build. But hey it's all fair game. But yeah, it does concern me that new players are already seeing the type of meta-obsessed toxic players and aren't really reacting to it well. 

I think it will all fizzle out well, but we all have to remember that most of these "issues" if they can be called such, result directly from the opaque, arcane, and eclectic nature of the game. Not everyone will understand this, especially in today's MMO/PvP-dominated gaming community. Furthermore, Warframe makes people tired after a while, and sometimes even I don't have the patience to explain to someone how to do something. I'd rather just have someone who's already meta to play with so that I can save time and energy. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, and sometimes these kinds of sentiments are actually counterproductive to the general health of the community. 

Edited November 7, 2017 by UMBRACORP

[blueboy90780]

3 minutes ago, UMBRACORP said:

I have a few more thoughts, as I begin to read the other insightful responses. 

TBH, I think that we could be in the wisp of something. You see, Warframe is primarily a PvE game, and I think that's what sets us apart. Other players who came from PvP backgrounds are going to try to drag their ideas into the game, but to no avail. There will probably be a big schism between the "older crowd" and the "young crowd". But who knows. The real issue is longevity. I don't know how many of the new players will actually stay in the game once they realize just how demanding this game can be. Of course, that's up to DE and how well they continue to update and upgrade this game, especially when it comes to new player experience (NPE), economy balancing, grinding methods, economic incentives, and community management. 

 

mmmhmm, you have a good point there. But even if most players do leave, the ones that most likely to remain would be the toxic one - especially those who have competitive gaming backgrounds. If you think about it, these type of players will try to reach endgame no matter what, if they discovered the hardship about this game - this would only encourage them more to continue playing and to be able to beat the game itself - as a way to prove their dominance to their peeps and other players. Even if toxic players do leave the game, the trials they leave behind would remain (most likely) - their toxic treatment of other players would spread and other players would eventually pick up on them leading to an evergrowing and non-stopping loop.

I mean, this is just a wild-guess, but the one that I feel most confident about. 

[SpoonyBrad]

7 minutes ago, blueboy90780 said:

Yes through mastery rank, why? Because it's the only source we have to make quick unreliable judgement on a player. Also, my post is relating to all of the new players, so it wouldn't change much if he was a grandmaster founder, since the examples I've provided where one of many...

You know you simultaneously admitted that MR is a bad measure and argued that it's the best measure of skill available. Could there be better ones, sure.

By definition, a grandmaster founder isn't a new player; they may be rusty if they haven't touched the game in a while, but new? Not so much.

[METAHUMVN]

2 minutes ago, blueboy90780 said:

mmmhmm, you have a good point there. But even if most players do leave, the ones that most likely to remain would be the toxic one - especially those who have competitive gaming backgrounds. If you think about it, these type of players will try to reach endgame no matter what, if they discovered the hardship about this game - this would only encourage them more to continue playing and to be able to beat the game itself - as a way to prove their dominance to their peeps and other players. Even if toxic players do leave the game, the trials they leave behind would remain (most likely) - their toxic treatment of other players would spread and other players would eventually pick up on them leading to an evergrowing and non-stopping loop.

I mean, this is just a wild-guess, but the one that I feel most confident about. 

I agree with your logic. However, I feel that it takes a certain kind of person to just want to beat a game. I don't think the PvP crowd will really find this game attractive, primarily because PvP junkies thrive on that competitive energy that can only arise when you're playing against someone else who's real and isn't just some NPC in a powersuit. Like I said, it's primarily a PvE game, and tbh if I was into PvP I wouldn't spend half the time I do playing Warframe. 

[o.0-]

Hmm... maybe a good time to have some more Conclave events?

[o0Despair0o]

Well, as someone who's been here for ~3 years, that's kinda hard to say.

I've had both, good and bad experiences with the "new kids in town";

 

Good:

-Often listen to my "feedback", and are willing to improve the way they play specific frames (Frost, etc.). Not always, though.

-Usually pretty nice when talking to them. I recently spent more time on Lith, Earth and talk to the new guys.

-As a native german playing on the english client, I'm suprised how many germans I run into. :s

-Our clan grows fast.

 

Bad:

-Some people are, to put it nicely, dense as f----. They do the same, obvious mistakes 20 times in a row.

-Apparently Frost is hard to play. Some people place their globe mid-air and block half my shots during defense missions.

-I'll be honest here, some of them just ask way too many questions. I know DE only explains like 4% of what you need to know, but it's getting....sad. All the time someone in my clan goes asking "HOW DO I DO X, WHY DOES Y NOT WORK????"

-Some people are just rude. I try to talk to them and they go straight to insulting me, sometimes even in a language that I don't understand. (what's the point in insulting someone if he/she doesn't understand the insult, anyway? Like, I speak german and english, and 2-3 words polish. And some just called me "kur*a". 

 

[o0Despair0o]

12 minutes ago, SPARTAN-187.Thanatos said:

Hmm... maybe a good time to have some more Conclave events?

I like the way you think... :s

[SilvaDreams]

17 minutes ago, SPARTAN-187.Thanatos said:

Hmm... maybe a good time to have some more Conclave events?

Well that is certainly a good way to scare them off.....

[----Legacy----]

46 minutes ago, dEjAvU5566 said:

How do you judge so called new player? Mastery rank?

Maybe that rank 4 dude is a grandmaster founder 

Just saying.

How does that matter? It could be a cb/obw gm founder account, but if it has less than 100 hours in game or just a handful of missions played, chances are the guy still doesn't understand the game mechanics or doesn't have gear viable in late game.

Tldr: Status and titles don't make skill and knowledge.

Edited November 7, 2017 by ----Legacy----

[Podge]

i honestly dont have much experience with the latest influx of new players, but with all the previous bunches, they were usually pretty cool. there's always a few who are a pain in the butt to deal with but for the most part people who have just joined the game and don't know what they're doing seem to try not to piss off the people who could teach them.

and yes, there are people who just dont learn well, and make the same mistake over and over again, and there are people who ask dumb questions that have been answered before, and there are people who are seemingly incapable of looking at the wiki or doing research, but the majority of new players that i've met seem to be pretty chill. the only issue is that it's the annoying ones that happen to be the loudest.

also, i dont think that mastery rank is a good way to judge how new a player is. it took me almost a year to reach MR 5, but one of my friends who i introduced to the game hit MR 22 in about a month and was figuring out endgame builds within a week or so of playing.

[xLUONG]

Interesting.
Can't say that I've had a similar experience so far. But I've only been pubbing Eidolon capture since the plains launched, so that could be the reason.

I'm a typical competitive "PVP" player. Started with Unreal Tournament/Quake, then it was Counter Strike and ended with Battlefield and Blacklight Retribution (another f2p. but with a very toxic community)
My only MMO experience was vanilla WoW up until I quit shortly after Cataclysm launched. And also Aion (rip).
In both games it was all about PVP for me.

Then I started with Diablo after some pressure from friends. Found out I really enjoy mindless farming for some weird reason.
Enter Warframe, a perfect combination of shooting stuff and endless farming.

Rambling here lmao, but my point is this: The Warframe community has been the most friendly so far. I was actually quite baffled for a long time just how friendly people were in general. My theory always hinted towards the PVE VS PVP mentality. Sure Warframe has PVP, but it's not the main mode by a long shot.
So yeah, I doubt this will suddenly change with a new wave of players - but it would be a damn shame if it did.

[o.0-]

2 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

Well that is certainly a good way to scare them off.....

Some of the previous Conclave Events were fine though, and if there is an influx of naturally competitive players, they could see for themselves how Conclave works and choose to try it or not.

Sure there are issues with it, but if these new players are coming from PvP, they may even prefer the mode to PvE as it can be a challenge and something that players may enjoy.

[Shifty_Shuffler]

I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill here. I've have returned after a long break and have put in the hours over the past few weeks. I haven't seen any toxicity in all that time, just a few bad eggs leeching in games. Community still seems as spot on as when I last played the game.

Yes there are probably a few players behaving like d*cks, but they are few and far between. Maybe players from other games with infamously toxic communities just need some time to readjust lol :P