This game needs an auction house.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

I wish they just added a terminal on Maroo's bazaar where you could, let's say, put up to 10 sets of items for sale at a fixed price.... Then you're free to leave and play the game and people are free to browse the items you left there and purchase them. You get a message in your inbox when a trade occurs.

At this point, the only reason I can see why there isn't an auction house of some sort is because DE probably fears that if they make an auction house, people will try to undercut existing prices, which will result in people posting their items cheaper and cheaper to get a sale, which in turn means items will cost less and DE will make less plat... That said, they fail to see the fact that people would do way more trades overall, so I'm guessing they would make just as much profit overall, because it's quite a chore currenty to lurk in trade chat for hours to get a seller of the thing you want ,and people just give up getting some items because they don't want to suffer through this.

And while yes, there are websites for trades, truth is , as console tenno, sadly there's very few people using the websites , and the people there tend to overprice stuff, which suck...

Edited January 16, 2018 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[Uthael]

• RNG upgrade system - We have that. Transmuting mods. it could use some work, though. Might as well give it a chance for legendary and riven mods. That'll increase the demand through the roof!. ... Even though buying legendaries from Baro might turn out to be cheaper.
• Crafted consumables - check. Clem, cyphers, pizzas,...And feel free to add glitter consumables. What if I want reddish
• Perpetual old=obsolete schema - Some games failed because of that. Not needed.

Some tweaks on the first two points + AH cuts for voiding plat (getting rid of inflation) should be enough.

[Volinus7]

Warframe trade chat is "obscured market" and doesn't expose any "supply and demand", it accommodates ripping off and scams because there's no public trade result graph. 

[PatternistSlave]

 

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

it is possbile to calculate and reduce it to a minimum.

Which DE have done by not having an auction house.

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

Botting is one thing - but there are enough ways to make boting unefficient.

Which DE have done by not having an auction house.

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

Price Manipulation? I would call it free-marked-system. It's a thing that happen with any open trading system.

I'm not posting a tutorial on how to break a game economy.  Suffice to say your opinion is from a place of blissful ignorance and that you should educate yourself before designing your next trading system.

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

Please understand that implementing an auction house would transform the game significantly. DE relies on the rarity of items, and the obtuseness of trade, to stretch out the grind and provide the "meat" of the effort and engagement in the game. Hence they can't just add one without addressing core aspects of the game.

 

That's why it would be easier, and in keeping with the intent of the Devs, do adapt the existing dtore mechanics and merely allow players to post all items in a way that facilitate easy search, contact, and transaction. You could create a singular instance where everyone is visible, but if you ever played EVE Online, something persistent like that is taxing. That's why it would be easier to have a separate instance for both seller and buyers, and remove an animations or gfx but pair it down to the already existing UI's that being used for Barro and Darvo.  This would allow people to use the trade interface at the same time with little to no lag or bandwidth issues.

[ObviousLee]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

Please understand that implementing an auction house would transform the game significantly. DE relies on the rarity of items, and the obtuseness of trade, to stretch out the grind and provide the "meat" of the effort and engagement in the game. Hence they can't just add one without addressing core aspects of the game.

 

That's why it would be easier, and in keeping with the intent of the Devs, do adapt the existing dtore mechanics and merely allow players to post all items in a way that facilitate easy search, contact, and transaction. You could create a singular instance where everyone is visible, but if you ever played EVE Online, something persistent like that is taxing. That's why it would be easier to have a separate instance for both seller and buyers, and remove an animations or gfx but pair it down to the already existing UI's that being used for Barro and Darvo.  This would allow people to use the trade interface at the same time with little to no lag or bandwidth issues.

Or just use the existing features and have some patience so that DE can focus on possibly fixing known issues, releasing new and engaging content, or refining existing content. 

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

1 minute ago, ObviousLee said:

Or just use the existing features and have some patience so that DE can focus on possibly fixing known issues, releasing new and engaging content, or refining existing content. 

How about they evolve the game to allow for a more sophisticated user experience which drive growth and player engagement. Instead of the obtuse frustrating experience in which the only people who enjoy it or benefit are people who are patience and devious.

Plus this is a big secret issue in the game and lies at the core of people's complaint about boring and repetitive grind. Creating a more sophisticate player economy would open the path to DE addressing grind mechanics instead of relying on loot rng as the only method of keeping people playing.

[ObviousLee]

37 minutes ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

How about they evolve the game to allow for a more sophisticated user experience which drive growth and player engagement. Instead of the obtuse frustrating experience in which the only people who enjoy it or benefit are people who are patience and devious.

Plus this is a big secret issue in the game and lies at the core of people's complaint about boring and repetitive grind. Creating a more sophisticate player economy would open the path to DE addressing grind mechanics instead of relying on loot rng as the only method of keeping people playing.

Because impatience shouldn't be rewarded? In no functioning system or society is being impatient a good thing. If you're impatient that's your issue to remedy, not others job to accommodate. If you want to make a profit in trade you're going to have to observe the trends and take steps to set yourself up for gain. Also the system is set up in such a way that if someone's "devious" behavior gets the better of the trade, it's your fault for not paying attention. Pain retains, amigo. 

[EinheriarJudith]

59 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

Or just use the existing features and have some patience so that DE can focus on possibly fixing known issues, releasing new and engaging content, or refining existing content. 

still waiting for DE to do this. scaling is a mess, RNG in rivens are a mess, archwing needs more expanding, plains needs a better form of transportation since parkour is irrelevant there (calling down the archwing is not enough it breaks the flow), there are numerous old systems DE refuses to address and fix but keeps piling on new content. we all would like for them to fix current and old but too much has already been swept underneath the carpet. if you never played eve online you wont understand how auction houses are done properly.

Edited January 16, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[Urabask]

9 hours ago, Somi_xD said:

Dude - this i no reason at all.
It's not like people are forced to lower the prices.
Items which are rare stay rare, and even if people sell for lower prices to be the more attractive seller - but nobody willgo TOO low in price.

There are many ways to design it well.
You can limit the AH-Slots for every player, let's say 3 slots for each player?
It is weird that it works in other games but shouldn't work if it is made to fit warframe.

Seriously?  Seeing stuff like this makes it seem like people have selective amnesia.  If you have ever played a game with an AH you would know that people undercut each other so savagely that the moment an item enters the game it doesn't hold any value unless it has a 1% or worse drop rate per run.  Relics let us get up to a 33% drop rate on items that are worth 30+ plat.  And each successful run adds four of them to the game's supply.  Items are in such high supply in Warframe that the only thing keeping prices as high as they are is the lack of an AH.  When you ask for an AH what you are asking for is to have your time spent playing the game valued less and money spent on plat valued more.  Warframe relies on letting players easily get plat to function at all so messing around with the balance DE has reached will have undoubtedly negative consequences.

57 minutes ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

How about they evolve the game to allow for a more sophisticated user experience which drive growth and player engagement. Instead of the obtuse frustrating experience in which the only people who enjoy it or benefit are people who are patience and devious.

Plus this is a big secret issue in the game and lies at the core of people's complaint about boring and repetitive grind. Creating a more sophisticate player economy would open the path to DE addressing grind mechanics instead of relying on loot rng as the only method of keeping people playing.

You're basically asking for DE to create a paywall and calling it a more sophisticated player economy.  

Edited January 16, 2018 by Urabask

[Spectre-8]

People like the OP are just lazy , it is what it is such people would just complain even if we had an AH .

[Fallen_Echo]

4 hours ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

Please understand that implementing an auction house would transform the game significantly. DE relies on the rarity of items, and the obtuseness of trade, to stretch out the grind and provide the "meat" of the effort and engagement in the game. Hence they can't just add one without addressing core aspects of the game.

 

That's why it would be easier, and in keeping with the intent of the Devs, do adapt the existing dtore mechanics and merely allow players to post all items in a way that facilitate easy search, contact, and transaction. You could create a singular instance where everyone is visible, but if you ever played EVE Online, something persistent like that is taxing. That's why it would be easier to have a separate instance for both seller and buyers, and remove an animations or gfx but pair it down to the already existing UI's that being used for Barro and Darvo.  This would allow people to use the trade interface at the same time with little to no lag or bandwidth issues.

All they need to know is put plat tax on ah sales, by doing that they create a constant mass used plat-sink what will drive people into buying more plat why also keeps the economy healthy.

[Fallen_Echo]

3 hours ago, Urabask said:

Seriously?  Seeing stuff like this makes it seem like people have selective amnesia.  If you have ever played a game with an AH you would know that people undercut each other so savagely that the moment an item enters the game it doesn't hold any value unless it has a 1% or worse drop rate per run.  Relics let us get up to a 33% drop rate on items that are worth 30+ plat.  And each successful run adds four of them to the game's supply.  Items are in such high supply in Warframe that the only thing keeping prices as high as they are is the lack of an AH.  When you ask for an AH what you are asking for is to have your time spent playing the game valued less and money spent on plat valued more.  Warframe relies on letting players easily get plat to function at all so messing around with the balance DE has reached will have undoubtedly negative consequences.

I played with games with AH and undercutting stops after a time.

We had an item what was dropping once a week for 10-15 guys only and randomly. Everybody knowed the item was rare as hell and extremely important so no one ever put it in ah and even the ones who did never placed it for less than 1000 gold ( which was exactly the same price as you ask for in the trade chat).

Undercutting only happens on common items what are already cheap as hell.

[GeoffFromAccounting]

As much as Warframe needs a replacement for the god awful trade chat, I don't feel like the traditional AH is the best way to go about it. Instead what I suggest is a Trade Post similar to what Guild Wars 2 has (and is, in my opinion, the best form of "AH" I've seen in any MMO). For those of you who've never played Guild Wars 2, the Trade Post functions in the sense that sellers can list their item for the price they want to sell at, and buyers can place an order to buy items they want. Where this differs from an AH is that for one, there's no bidding involved: if you agree with the price you see you can sell/buy immediately, and if not you can place a sell/buy order for the item and wait for someone to buy your item/sell you the item. It also differs by the fact that while an AH holds your item for, say, 72 hours, while a Trade Post will hold your item/plat indefinitely until the order is fulfilled or you cancel the order (in which the item/plat is then refunded to your account). The Trade Post will also let you see what how many buy orders there are and how much each one is willing to pay, and the same for sell orders. This way you can judge the supply and demand of an item without guessing or going to external sites (which if you ever have to do that for a game, for any reason, you have failed at your job as a game designer or UI/UX designer).

For an example in Warframe terms, say someone wants to sell a Saryn Prime Set. They could look at the Trade Post, and see that there's buy orders that are willing to buy it for 200 plat at most. At this point the seller could either immediately sell there item for 200p, or they could place a sell order for a higher price and wait for someone to buy that. In that case, the set would be held by the Trade Post until the order is fulfilled (in which the plat that is owed would then go to their account) or the order is cancelled (in which the items are then returned to your inventory). This also works for buyers. Using the same example, someone could see that the cheapest someone is willing to sell a Saryn Prime set is 300p. At that point they could either buy immediately, or place a buy order at, say, 200p and wait for someone to sell it at that price. At that point, the plat would be held by the Trade Post until either the order is fulfilled (in which the items that are owed would go to their account) or the order is cancelled (in which the plat is then refunded).

This works for both sellers and buyers, and gives players the most control over their merchandise and how it's handled. If the seller is impatient and wants immediate plat, they can always sell for less immediately, but if they're willing to be patient and wait for it they can place a buy order for more. Same goes for buyers. If anyone is concerned that both the sell orders and the buy orders will end up at the same price, I encourage you to look at Guild Wars 2 Trade Post prices, and even Warframe's very own Warframe Market prices. In those cases, the sell orders are always higher than the buy orders. People want to buy for as little as possible, while sellers want to sell for as much as possible. If anyone is worried about prices crashing, again, look at Guild Wars 2 Trade Post prices. The rarer or more valuable an item is, the more gold it'll be worth on the Trade Post. That'll still most likely hold true with Warframe. Some prices might go down, but those will typically be for the really common things that no one wants (like a Fang Prime set).

[P0Pz]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb (PS4)HurricaneHugo76:

I also think an auction house would improve the economy greatly, but I doubt DE will ever implement one.

It would require a complete rework of drop rates to make sure it doesn't get exploited, and they are probably desperately paranoid about plat farmers and sellers.

However, I keep pointing out this idea and alot of people seem to like it, I wonder why DE hasn't thought of it too:

Adapt the existing market UI to allow for players to list items they have for sale and what they are looking for in return. Allow the same restrictions currently in place, restrict total number of trades by MR per day and require an active account to host the store and allow the items to be visible. Make it part of Maroo's Bazaar as this is sorta what they have in place. Instead of having discreet instances that limits the number of players, create a "seller" and a "buyer" instance. The sellers spawn in one instance and just have the ability to post items for sale. Buyers spawn in an instance where they open up the interface and can look for items for sale. All buyers have access to all sellers and vice versa, kinda of what the intention of the trade chat was supposed to be. They implemented this with NPC's, Barro and Darvo essentially do this, there is no reason why it can't be adapted to allow players to do the same thing.

But the most critical thing that should be part of this system is an API which allows players to take the Database of items for sale and sales data and allow them to post this on 3rd party websites. This allows fro real market price checks and allows people to see which items are being manipulated and which are being traded fairly.

At this point it's lazy development and their desire to emphasis Loot RNG as the primary method of item acquisition that prevents something like this from being implemented.

Packet sniffing ~> Bots ~> need to be secured from happening.

Only if online ~> AFK ~~> AFK check and auto LogOut after x minutes no activity.

Trade Tax ~> Must have ~> x % from selling amount.

Game needs item sink ways ~> for each item that can be sold.

EXtern PRIVAT tradingwebsites ~> for a game enabling trades, is showing up, it's missing it's own content. Private hosted websited 'can' manipulate prices. Egg creating false player accounts and sell/buy via bot mechanics fictive stuff to increase/lower the prices by site owner and other persons or directly manipulate statistics. Stay away from such sort of not officical content. This is no solution to the source of problem ingame. 

Tons of times talked out. This "Tradingplatform" requesting is p0ping up since i played WF. 

Go make one. But with deep thoughts...

 

[PatternistSlave]

32 minutes ago, P0Pz said:

Tons of times talked out. This "Tradingplatform" requesting is p0ping up since i played WF. 

They can make all the "Herp a derp, why isn't there an auction house?" threads in the world, but (Lotus willing) they'll continue to be ignored because the more convenient the system becomes the easier it becomes to exploit.  Is a little bit of convenience really worth the possible destruction of what's been acknowledged as a superb game economy?

[GeoffFromAccounting]

14 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

They can make all the "Herp a derp, why isn't there an auction house?" threads in the world, but (Lotus willing) they'll continue to be ignored because the more convenient the system becomes the easier it becomes to exploit.  Is a little bit of convenience really worth the possible destruction of what's been acknowledged as a superb game economy?

I have never, in my entire gaming history, seen someone abuse an AH or a Trade Post like the one I suggested above. The closest I've seen is with something akin to CS:GO skin gambling, and that's a whole different mess which would be nigh impossible to bring to Warframe due to the lack of a competitive nature (Conclave does not compare). Besides, that's already possible anyway with our current system, an AH/TP would do nothing to change that.

If you're worried about plat farming, let me ask you this: how would you farm plat? This isn't like your typical MMO where gold is both what drops from mobs/quests and what's used in the AH/TP. In order to get plat you have to either buy it or sell stuff. If they're buying it, then who cares? That's money straight to DE, and that's always good. If they're farming stuff to sell, then what's so different about people who do that now? Hell, even I do that occasionally when I need plat for something, and if that's what people want to spend their time doing then what's wrong with that? This is Farm-frame after all, where the only actual end game is to either make your stuff look as pretty as possible, or get all the loot possible.

To your last point: Warframe's economy is terrible. It is incredibly unstable and has huge ranges between minimum and maximum prices, and most of the time you have to guess the worth of an item because there's nothing else to base it off of (or go to Warframe Market, but like I said before: if the only information about something is only available on a third party website, the game has failed). What you feel is 100p because of the items power and the amount of time you spent farming it, might only be worth 20p to someone else. That's not even including the fustercluck that is Rivens. What a Trade Post  (like the one I explained above in my last post) would do is allow prices to finally stabilise, as such improving Warframe's economy.

DISCLAIMER: I've only really read the last few and the very first posts of this thread, so if you've said information that I've gone past that is relevant, I apologise

[PatternistSlave]

8 minutes ago, Ninjaboy00 said:

I have never, in my entire gaming history, seen someone abuse an AH or a Trade Post like the one I suggested above.

Really?  Because Google leads me to believe Guild Wars 2 has a rather severe bot issue.  Took me  a few seconds to find a trading bot.

12 minutes ago, Ninjaboy00 said:

Warframe's economy is terrible

Based solely on your not liking a barter system.  Believe it or not a game economy involves more than an interface.  I sure haven't played the f2p game that values time and money to the extent WF does.

[Urabask]

5 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I played with games with AH and undercutting stops after a time.

We had an item what was dropping once a week for 10-15 guys only and randomly. Everybody knowed the item was rare as hell and extremely important so no one ever put it in ah and even the ones who did never placed it for less than 1000 gold ( which was exactly the same price as you ask for in the trade chat).

Undercutting only happens on common items what are already cheap as hell.

Undercutting happens on items whose price is not in line with its supply/demand. This is basically every item in the game outside of some event drops.  You can't really have a functioning economy based on selling maiming strike or some such.  Nothing that drops from a relic could hope to maintain its current prices if we had a more transparent view of the supply in game.

15 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

Based solely on your not liking a barter system.  Believe it or not a game economy involves more than an interface.  I sure haven't played the f2p game that values time and money to the extent WF does.

This is what I don't get about the calls for an AH.  I've NEVER seen another F2P game where getting even $1 worth of premium currency was so easy.  Usually those sorts of gains are capped even.  In Warframe the main barrier to selling/buying something is being willing to talk to another person.  Blows my mind that people would rather massively increase the grind to get plat than talk to other people.

37 minutes ago, Ninjaboy00 said:

To your last point: Warframe's economy is terrible. It is incredibly unstable and has huge ranges between minimum and maximum prices, and most of the time you have to guess the worth of an item because there's nothing else to base it off of (or go to Warframe Market, but like I said before: if the only information about something is only available on a third party website, the game has failed). What you feel is 100p because of the items power and the amount of time you spent farming it, might only be worth 20p to someone else. That's not even including the fustercluck that is Rivens. What a Trade Post  (like the one I explained above in my last post) would do is allow prices to finally stabilise, as such improving Warframe's economy.

  There are clear patterns for the values of most items. Non-Riven mods and relic drops all follow some pretty easily discerned patterns.  Riven mods have a much more random value because there's a lot more room for players to attribute more value to them than other players.  An auction house wouldn't really change this much since there's so much variation between Rivens.  The only really guaranteed outcome is that prices would drop across the board.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Urabask

[(PSN)TheHypothes]

Maybe not an auction house, but possibly some kind of in-game advertising board that lets people list items and how much they want to buy/sell it for.

 

Then people could go to the board, search said item, and everyone who has a listing that's online pops up with the ability to message them for a trade, but the actual transaction has to be done in the current fashion instead of it all being automated.

[Uthael]

Everyone who has played for a long time now and is against AH probably got used to trading via chat and is doing just fine monopolizing the market with only 5% of the game's population as competition.

If DE implemented an NPC vendor who'd buy my stuff for half the average price from the market and sell me mods and blueprints for double the market price, I'd use it. Just so I don't ever have the need to trade in person. No AH needed in this case.

But yes... Guild Wars 2. That's what I meant when I said Crossout. They're similar. However, Crossout's AH deals are only in plat.

I don't care about AH bots. In fact, I'd welcome them! That would mean that someone is greedy enough to risk being banned to profit. In the end, they probably will end up banning themselves. But until then, they help voiding plat to auction cuts (which is good for economy). And they keep the prices balanced for anyone wishing to buy OR sell anything. I'd say those are all good outcomes.

If there are 10 people monopolizing the AH with bots, that means many other people are more encouraged to play than trade for hours. That's how it should be.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Uthael
reordered paragraphs

[PatternistSlave]

17 minutes ago, Uthael said:

If DE implemented an NPC vendor who'd buy my stuff for half the average price from the market and sell me mods and blueprints for double the market price, I'd use it. Just so I don't ever have the need to trade in person. No AH needed in this case.

I'll do this for you right now.  I wouldn't say a word to you or I could say stock dialog about how smart you are.  Whichever you prefer.

As for the rest, you'd welcome bots.  If that doesn't exemplify the sort of short-sighted, egocentric ignorance of basic game design that DE should go out of their way to avoid I don't know what does.

[Urabask]

22 minutes ago, Uthael said:

If there are 10 people monopolizing the AH with bots, that means many other people are more encouraged to play than trade for hours. That's how it should be.

Tradebots are almost always run by goldsellers. So it wouldn't really matter to them that their account gets banned, that's just the cost of business.  They'd get a lot more new players banned when selling their ill gotten gains though.

 

25 minutes ago, Uthael said:

If DE implemented an NPC vendor who'd buy my stuff for half the average price from the market and sell me mods and blueprints for double the market price, I'd use it. Just so I don't ever have the need to trade in person. No AH needed in this case.

Yeah, that's never happening because the trade currency is their premium currency.  They're not creating a system where plat just spontaneously enters the economy without money being spent on it.

49 minutes ago, (PS4)Vagnar said:

Maybe not an auction house, but possibly some kind of in-game advertising board that lets people list items and how much they want to buy/sell it for.

What is so hard about using Warframe.market? You just copy paste links to whisper someone who has posted an item and get it in a few minutes. 

[P0Pz]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb PatternistSlave:

They can make all the "Herp a derp, why isn't there an auction house?" threads in the world, but (Lotus willing) they'll continue to be ignored because the more convenient the system becomes the easier it becomes to exploit.  Is a little bit of convenience really worth the possible destruction of what's been acknowledged as a superb game economy?

Let me tell you one thing, i tryed to be as neutral posting as possible to avoid persons which nonstop void talking, trying to spread fear or are scared losing their profit with implementing an "Tradeplatform". You sir, pick a part out of my post to bolster yours up. Sick.

Let me tell ya...

18 <~~ 18 years ago an AH was created so good it is the grandfather of any modern one.

 

The AH & Broker System

No wonder that WoW started to copy this AH:

AH & Brokerbsystem is nothing what WF directly needs. It's an additional different way to sell/buy content. But not needed. A Tradeplatform it selfe is needed InGame.

 

The "Player Store":

You could be online or AFK. While online you could still shout the "old way" WTS XYZ... but had also  risc of getting scamed when trading "manuel".

Store ~ While you setup a store, put in the numbers of amount of each items you wanted to sell. Setup the price of each item and then let players passing by, look at ya store and buy direct out of it if they like it for your price. If not they walk away and look at another "shop" whats in there...

Also the other side arround. You could set a player store where YOU searching for something and put in the amount you want to pay for it. So who ever pass by could sell it to you. Blue shop names where selling and yellow shop names buying.

Online/AFK did not care there...

 

And both worked 100% perfectly with never a single problem.

 

• If you want me to stop here, don't answer me. Don't quote me. All good then.

Good day sir.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, Urabask said:

Undercutting happens on items whose price is not in line with its supply/demand. This is basically every item in the game outside of some event drops.  You can't really have a functioning economy based on selling maiming strike or some such.  Nothing that drops from a relic could hope to maintain its current prices if we had a more transparent view of the supply in game.

The relic system prices are controlled with the vaulting process mainly.

Currently there is only two main items what keep our economy rolling event items and rivens.

But as i said if the undercutting is really that much problem all DE needs to do is a plat tax tied to the ah/tradeboard system and that will stop undercutting fast as items cant go under a certain price without losing profit.

1 hour ago, Urabask said:

In Warframe the main barrier to selling/buying something is being willing to talk to another person.  Blows my mind that people would rather massively increase the grind to get plat than talk to other people.

Nope thats not it, the main barrier is how these communications end up. Just look up some old threads about the toxicity of the trade chat.

Currently to buy anything you need to be online in a place where you have trade chat access. You need someone who has that item online accessing the trade chat when you posted the message. You need to pm them your price or accept their sent price and be prepared to raise your price because undercutting theirs mostly ends the chatting.

Barter is non-existant and be prepared to be bombarded by scammers if your message even slightly suggest that you are new to the game.

I gave up on using the trade chat, its an overall mess almost hurts my eyes to read it and the chatting part feels like im trying to communicate with the most toxic and salty team on the loser side in a lol match.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Fallen_Echo