would People be fine with a completly unbalanced Game?

[Jeoxz]

For a Sense of progress it's absolutely fine. Weapons from higher MR should be more powerful, the problem arises when there's a meta hat everyone follows. At the moment we aren't in a bad spot. There's powerful weapons like the tigris but they have drawbacks and I rarely see those when playing pub, an changes in IPS are coming so hype.

The biggest problem we had before was in frames, Hydroid, Oberon, Limbo, even though they had their small niches they couldn't compare to the meta. Now after reworks only Zephyr is left, and then saying any frame is terrible is gonna be a hard argument.

[Miser_able]

No. There needs to some form of balance in order to keep people from using just 1 meta load out. 

Though some balances are a bit heavy handed, rip gara. 

[(XBOX)EX NEVEC EDN 3]

Warframe isn't about balance if you look at it from a lore standpoint , if all frames,weapons mods ect the great war would still be going on they sentinels and Orokin would still be fighting if everything was balanced, the orokin made the warframes to fight the sentinels,  so power creep is needed to end somethi g that is trying to kill you 

[Twilight053]

there needs to be a balance in pve games

but DE's balance is 90% nerf and 10% buff which gets infuriating

[(PSN)Unstar]

8 hours ago, Spartan336 said:

What is this "Balanced Game" thing you talk about?

Came here for this.

[FashionFrame]

Things that I consider "unbalanced" is stuff that makes the game not fun for others. A perfect example was Mirage with the synoid simulor. She would kill everything and her team mates would just have to follow behind thinking "boy this is fun, let's do absolutely nothing."

Or an even better example: Ash bladestorm spam. 

Now there are those people that are happy with others doing all the work for cheap and easy exp, but from the past mirage/ash debacle, and the current examples like ember WOF and Spin2Win atterax, people grow tired of these players taking away the fun of killing things. 

Inb4 "just get ember and an atterax then!" 

Sorry, I don't like to be a jerk to my squad. If I'm going to gets those, I'm going solo mode. 

Edited December 18, 2017 by FashionFrame

[Kinetos]

Balance doesn't mean everything is the same and doesn't mean there are no niches or roles that some things do better than others. 

Unbalanced, many frames/weapons are literally useless compared to one or a few frames/weapons that are literally better in every scenario even if they are the wrong theme. 

Ignis vs Plasmor? Unbalanced would be Plasmor vs infested always beating Ignis vs infested *in spite of* doing radiation which is supposed to be less effective than heat vs infested. Balanced would be Ignis working better vs infested and Plasmor working better vs Grineer, but the difference not being so great that you *can't* use Ignis vs Grineer if you prefer it to Plasmor and don't mind a little less efficiency. It's almost like rock paper scissors, but unlike in actual rock paper scissors, sufficient skill can overcome stats. If it's unbalanced, paper might always win whether the opponent throws rock or scissors. If it's balanced, throwing scissors *will* statistically beat throwing paper over millions of samples, but sufficiently skilled paper can beat scissors of less skill. 

That's balance for choice of gear in PvE, or for PvP in general. 

Balance is also not 1 Tenno = 1 ai Grineer Lancer with the same exact DPS and EHP, though it would be nice if they were a little bit closer so reflected and mind controlled damage actually did things (enemy team damage), and team/self damage was less lethal (Tenno team damage), without changing the interaction between Tenno and enemy directly, or adding special features to team damage. We can have balance and still feel powerful, like a lever balanced on an off center fulcrum with different weights at different distances. 

That's balance vs an AI for PvE and is not dependent on gear choice assuming that is balanced. 

Balance is necessary but may not be what a lot of people think and it takes nerfs and buffs to do it, and which is used depends on the situation and which would take less work, and on current circumstances not past circumstances or actions, especially with balance between gear where all that needs changing is a few numbers on the gear. 

Though at some times it might be better to do a systemic change if making spot changes has resulted in a mess of spaghetti, and simplify. For example team damage, it would be simple to add a couple of multipliers that affect everything, but that would make future work harder because the system is more complex. Long term it might be easier to tweak base stats for enemy hp and Tenno weapons directly even though it would take more time up front. And btw it would be an instance of numbers being made smaller (REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...) but getting a buff in reality. (...eeeeeee but mah numbers...) 

Specific instances of poor attempts to make things more balanced do not invalidate the need. Perfection will never be reached but that is no reason to never try to improve at all. 

PvE and Conclave balance can remain separate too, there's no way some abilities can be balanced for both and that's fine. 

The game is currently not balanced, but I think it can be balanced without destroying it, and I think it would be improved for it. I am willing to take temporary losses (weapon/mod investment) for long term gains (better game). If systemic balance changes improve the game, I will adapt.

[R3b3ll10n90s]

9 hours ago, Scharfohr said:

After reading trough the Forum I was wondering about the following:

I saw People again and again complaining that DE nerfed/balanced things and were saying something like "Why do they nerf things/attempt to balance in a PVE Game" and more along that line. ( Some People are pissed if somebody even remotly says something about balance/Nerf)

And while I agree that not every balance/rework attempt turned out fine, would People really be fine with completly unbalanced Game?

Lets say DE brings everything back that they nerfed (indefintily corpus map cleaning mag, auto turret Mesa, Map Stunning Mirage and so on) would people really be fine with such a game if DE threw out all attempts of Balance and intruduce more 1 button map cleaning?

While I am one of the Players too that abused such things from time to time (for some Missions you have to do it, thanks to the wacky Enemy Balance) i probably would drop the Game in the end it would probably become too boring for my taste. ( already turned to a more Weapon heavy Gameplay because i started to dislike ability spam)
 

Looking forward to see your Opinions on this.

Dude, what do you expect support frame likes Trinity, Octavia, or Equinox to do? Go Rambo with primary? No way, my last game with Octavia we stayed for 45 min on Assur and everyone spam their abilities, excessively by me playing Octavia who suppose to keep the music turned on so everyone get benefit. When you playing with support frame(s) ability spam is inevitable even if it mean to get the best result in most categories intentionally or not as well as CC frame because the only way CC frame can CC better than spamming left click with explosive weapon is via ability. And I thinks you know my opinion about DPS and tank frames.

This game is balanced for me, in short.

[Kletse]

1 hour ago, FashionFrame said:

Things that I consider "unbalanced" is stuff that makes the game not fun for others. A perfect example was Mirage with the synoid simulor. She would kill everything and her team mates would just have to follow behind thinking "boy this is fun, let's do absolutely nothing."

Or an even better example: Ash bladestorm spam. 

Now there are those people that are happy with others doing all the work for cheap and easy exp, but from the past mirage/ash debacle, and the current examples like ember WOF and Spin2Win atterax, people grow tired of these players taking away the fun of killing things. 

Inb4 "just get ember and an atterax then!" 

Sorry, I don't like to be a jerk to my squad. If I'm going to gets those, I'm going solo mode. 

Why won't you be the banshee sonar to support the one with atterax then? That's real teamwork.

Real fun for me and the people i know is teamsynergy. Not the fact that everyone needs to kill something too.

 

[phoenix1992]

Fashion is balanced.

[FashionFrame]

5 minutes ago, Kletse said:

Why won't you be the banshee sonar to support the one with atterax then? That's real teamwork.

Real fun for me and the people i know is teamsynergy. Not the fact that everyone needs to kill something too.

 

Not everyone feels that way though. Many players prefer to get kills in. Thus why Ash and the synoid simulor was nerfed. Also Mesa's Ult. Not everyone wants to stick to just to banshee to help feed the meta even further.

[VoidMask]

I hate people who cry for nerfs, I really do.

 

No this isn't because I enjoy the meta, but because the people who cry for nerfs just enforce the meta even more.

 

"Oh S#&$ people can use Gara instead of frost?!?!!? NERF NERF!1!!1!"

 

"Oh S#&$ people are using valkyr to cheese S#&$ that literally every other frame cheeses? NERF!!!!!"

 

"Operators can revive people safely? NERF NERF!!!!"

 

It's frustrating, it's irritating, and it's hurting the game. You people need to stop, I doubt half of you play the S#&$ you cry nerf too! And when it does get nerfed you don't play them then either! You just sit there and play your meta-frames and smirk as no one plays the frame you hate because now it's S#&$. 

 

All in all, game breaking things need to be hammered out 'balancing' frames you don't care for is not. 

 

Buff terrible S#&$ to be good, not the other way around.

[Syln]

Define "people".

[VoidMask]

2 hours ago, Syln said:

Define "people".

peo·ple

ˈpēpəl/

noun

 

1. 1.

   human beings in general or considered collectively.

   "the earthquake killed 30,000 people"

   synonyms:

   human beings, persons, individuals, humans, mortals, (living) souls, personages, men, women, and children;  informalfolks "crowds of people"
2. 2.

   the men, women, and children of a particular nation, community, or ethnic group.

   "the native peoples of Canada"

   synonyms:

   race, (ethnic) group, tribe, clan "the peoples of Africa"

    

    

    

   There ya go.

[DrBorris]

Where's that trusty ole' post that shuts down the "Balance is not necessary in PvE" argument...

 

Oh, here it is.

 

Balance is to protect players from themselves, glory be to the nerfs.

[Syln]

il y a 49 minutes, Kindred-VoidMask a dit :

peo·ple

ˈpēpəl/

noun

 

1. 1.

   human beings in general or considered collectively.

   "the earthquake killed 30,000 people"

   synonyms:

   human beings, persons, individuals, humans, mortals, (living) souls, personages, men, women, and children;  informalfolks "crowds of people"

    
2. 2.

   the men, women, and children of a particular nation, community, or ethnic group.

   "the native peoples of Canada"

   synonyms:

   race, (ethnic) group, tribe, clan "the peoples of Africa"

    

    

    

   There ya go.

The game is already unbalanced anyway but asking if "people" will be fine with X or Y is kind of pointless, some will be and some won't, there will never be any consensus on any subjects.

[SunsetChaos]

Yes. Damage 1.0 was the best. 100% elemental procs. Being able to shock,freeze,burn,poison enemies all at once was so fun to see.

[Misgenesis]

Many would be for selfish reasons. ''Its a PvE game'' isnt an argument when DE's livelihood is partly tied to player progression, not to mention that your actions ingame can and will affect other peoples enjoyment.

''Its a PvE game'' applies to singleplayer games.

[(PSN)TheHypothes]

Fun is most important. I want to enjoy myself above anything.

 

Balance is good, but it should always come second to fun.

 

People can deliberately nerf themselves if they want more challenge, but when the options are limited to meta just to get stuff done, it hurts more than helps. I rarely use full blown meta builds, but I'm glad they're there when I want them.

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

I just don't like Use a single ability and one shot everyone and thing

[o0Despair0o]

There's one thing I don't understand:

Warframe is a PvE game, so what's the point in nerfing things that only the player can use? It's not like the AI is going to complain about it...

Seriously, I'm trying to take on a whole army on my own, why do people want to make the tools I'm given even weaker? It makes no sense!

 

I mean, sure, it would be boring if I could annihilate said army with one single bullet, but making me, a Tenno, a magical space-teeny with the power of a god struggle to take down a oversized cat isn't exactly "balanced", either. Just look at the Amps our Operators are given. They're tools designed to make our powers stronger. So what if people are going to ask for a nerf just because they one-hit killed a level 5 enemy? It would make the whole concept of the Amps pointless.

 

Nerfing a weapon because it can one-shot the strongest enemy in the game is something I can understand, but nerfing weapons that already struggle past level 40 is just complete BS.

 

EDIT; Look at the (OP-)ticor. Combine it with chroma and BOOM you can basically one-shot an Teralyst, one of the strongest enemy in the game. But did anyone ask for a nerf? NO! Did they nerf it anyway, because it`s the new meta? Nope, they didn't. Yet they nerf weapons that can't even take on a level 50 enemy.

Edited December 19, 2017 by o0Despair0o

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

5 minutes ago, o0Despair0o said:

There's one thing I don't understand:

Warframe is a PvE game, so what's the point in nerfing things that only the player can use? It's not like the AI is going to complain about it...

Seriously, I'm trying to take on a whole army on my own, why do people want to make the tools I'm given even weaker? It makes no sense!

 

I mean, sure, it would be boring if I could annihilate said army with one single bullet, but making me, a Tenno, a magical space-teeny with the power of a god struggle to take down a oversized cat isn't exactly "balanced", either. Just look at the Amps our Operators are given. They're tools designed to make our powers stronger. So what if people are going to ask for a nerf just because they one-hit killed a level 5 enemy? It would make the whole concept of the Amps pointless.

 

Nerfing a weapon because it can one-shot the strongest enemy in the game is something I can understand, but nerfing weapons that already struggle past level 40 is just complete BS.

I just find murdering everyone in one hit in games unless your suppose to boring at times

Edited December 19, 2017 by (XB1)Solargeo

[YUNoJump]

5 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

Fashion is balanced.

Fashion is pay-to-win man, all the best stuff comes from Prime Access

[FashionFrame]

34 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Fashion is pay-to-win man, all the best stuff comes from Prime Access

That's very subjective. 1. Not all fashion is bought through just plat, it can come from events and baro. 2. Just because there's cosmetics behind a $50+ purchase doesn't suddenly make them the best looking thing ever invented. In so honesty I find most PA armors and syandanas to not be that appealing, especially for how expensive they are, but hey. That's my opinion. As I said, very subjective. 

[rudman88]

there is no such thing as balance when you can modify you stuff.

1. They introduce a powerfull thing

2. Ok lets make that

3. forma it

4. SOme guys say Is OP

5. they nerf it

then DE will make you repeat step 1 to 5. to become lazy.

no new lore, no new stuff.

There is no such thign as balance. Is just how hard you forma it, what you mod it with.