Good loot locked behind mundane tasks!

[GinKenshin]

28 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Juniormech777 said:

Is that even possible when Sorties reset everyday?

yes. I'll talk about my personal time zone here. sorties reset at 7 PM, while the daily reset is at 2 AM. so you can easily do the first 2 sorties and then save up the last one. when you get the login reward, go do the 3rd 

let's make things clear. as others pointed out, index isn't the only way to get credits. you say you don't like it then why the F*** do you do it then? go do a dark sector or swap between, sure it MIGHT not be as efficient but at least you're not not having fun. as for the index it self, you only need to die because of some people collecting loads of points, banking them and the time goes off by a lot. simple make a squad of clannies, friends ( doubt it) or recruit some, saying that you're only going for the 50 points cap and no need for overbanking bull you hate so much 

as for kuva. it's totally a side thing. idk why ppl *@##$ about this tbh. so what do you want exactly? to do the same mission, on the same tileset every single time until your brain melts? that was the old void farming and this will not be coming back. you better get used to this.....also doing missions you don't like? dude there's like 5-6 siphon missions active at all times, as for the flood, just stick it up for once

also, you want the siphon to just suck some kuva, then 5 sec later it'll try to suck more? dude....that's not how games work. there's some actual crap to deal with in these missions. you don't want to wait a min or two now? 


also, you got it backwards. people enjoy doing these random missions, they just didn't do them because they had no rewards. now they do 

[(XBOX)Mechanomaly]

2 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

yes. I'll talk about my personal time zone here. sorties reset at 7 PM, while the daily reset is at 2 AM. so you can easily do the first 2 sorties and then save up the last one. when you get the login reward, go do the 3rd

Different reset times? That makes a lot more sense now...

[(PSN)KingGuy420]

3 minutes ago, ActionPoohole said:

Enjoyment should be a reason? But obviously they're not enjoyable enough to do without reward. So why tag them onto KUVA farming for no apparent reason apart from laziness to create a new game mode.

In a game that's built around farming stuff, no I'm not going to play something just for enjoyment with no rewards. If I wanted that I'd go play something else. As it sits right now mobile defense, rescues, exterminations all reward nothing. Kuva gives them a reason to exist and be played, something they didn't have pre Kuva lol.

But it really doesn't matter. You didn't start this thread with the intention of hearing peoples opinions anyways, you just made it so people would hear yours. I came in here thinking this was to open conversation about it, not to listen to one guy whine lol. So I doubt I'll be back after this post.

[Mintaro]

Credits have plenty of ways being gained infact people in the millions before index. So switch things up.

Kuva missions are still the most reliable way due to sorties not being 100% getting same with bounties.

So in summary you got options for creds but not much in kuva but atleast that changes in missions.

You have some sense in your words but you are exploding this out of proportion in my opinion.

[Ada_Wong_SG]

Kuva is kind of boring at the moment, but it plays like any regular missions.

You can always wait for the Kuva fortress to move to other places, and the mission type changed to see what you like and play.
though that would take longer time, you can farm credits while waiting.

Credits is kind of very diversified, you can choose to run all the dark sector missions 
Akkad, Sechura which will give you 25k - 26k every 5 waves of mission, 
that double as resource and XP farm, seriously I only did index for The Glast Gambit quest and never touched it since.

Since index is a very different play style as you would do with other missions, your equipment might not be adequate to
handle index, if you geared up to play index, you might find other missions unsuitable for your equipment.

 

Then again, this game can be very grindy, if you are at your limits of your patience then take a break from your regular grinding.

Try to do some "side quest" like fishing in the plains of eidolon or try to explore the void missions for parkour rooms.
Those aren't as rewarding but can help you to break away from the grindy routine and most likely relax a bit.

[Yagamilight123]

1 hour ago, ActionPoohole said:

Should I expect more than unsubstantiated replies like this? I have been grinding the game like hell for 100s of hours... Grinding doesn't have to be this tedious.. There's nothing wrong with putting enjoyable mechanics into the grind... Please say something useful.

The makes us wait around ridiculously at the end for NO reason. We have already won, yet there is this stupid timer... So we have to gather more points and then get ourselves wrecked on purpose. That is completely illogical, counter intuitive, slow, probably goes entirely against game lore and is just wrong... What game rewards you for getting wrecked? It's just ridiculous... Defense missions are decent, Survivals are great. Spy missions are fine if you're in the mood for them...

But when you're thrown into an arena that makes you win the game, then forces you to wait around AFTER WINNING... Which then forces you to do it all again and then get yourself killed like idiots... Why on earth are we getting ourselves killed on purpose? It's just madness and horribly designed.

As for KUVA... It's the same missions again, except we don't get to enjoy said style of mission as you have to cut it short. Example: Run a survival KUVA... Finish the survival and leave.. We can't stay longer to attempt to gather more KUVA?  ... We have to wait around for the Siphon to point in directions... It's just a purposely designed time sink jammed smack bang in the middle of a random mission... Why would we have to break into data vaults to allow us to take the KUVA home? It makes no sense and it's boring.... It takes multiple missions of this boring and time consuming farming to do a single roll after you've done 10... It takes a lot of rolls to get a specific roll. It seems that this horrible design is there to keep plat sales going... There are better ways to reward players than this... People charge an exorbitant amount of plat for something that someone else could luck out and get in less than a couple of rolls.

The system stinks... There is obviously a better way to allow everyone to enjoy Riven mods and etc... It doesn't have to be so boring.

Survival missions are not at all boring for me and my friends, but when we want to do Riven mods or buy stuff from Baro... It's always back to Index or Kuva... and we all hate it to death and often neglect that portion of the game... The portion that is so fun to enjoy... But so horribly awful to achieve... I've never heard anyone say "I love the index" or "I love Kuva farming"..

I always hear people say "I love survival" or "I love defense missions"  ....

Please say something constructive.. Because obviously a break is needed from this utter boredom.

 

"Should I expect more than unsubstantiated replies like this?"

 

There is no other answer ... you dislike half of the game haha , choose another game . Things are not going to change just because and your friends are lazy or just dont like it .

[ActionPoohole]

1 hour ago, Xion said:

Playing a survival mission for countless hours doesn't qualify as grinding if you're not doing it to obtain something that gives you some type of gameplay advantage. Your sprees in survival are just your way of having fun. One could even argue that, depending on the type of survival missions you do, that's the biggest time sink that you've put yourselves into.

THIS is grind, that repetitive nature of one specific grueling task is what everyone who plays this game needs to get used to. Now, I'm not saying that I think Kuva missions are designed well or even the acolyte resting period after each appearance, believe me when I say that I know the struggles of sitting around and waiting for a good mission to pop up in the fissures. I'm just saying that grinding is a part of the game that you absolutely need to accept and get used to or else you'll just end up falling behind.

Excuse me, but who do you think you are making up assumptions about what I’m doing Survivals for?

I run survivals for hanging with friends, testing weapons while I earn relics so I can sell parts for plat or ducats or keep them for myself. If I wasn’t enjoying myself for the larger percentage of my gameplay time then what kinda weirdo little sad sack would I be?

You seem to be pointing out enjoyable aspects of the game as pure time sinks and the tedious aspects to be the pinnacle of whatever point it is you’re trying to make ( I still haven’t worked that out yet and I’m discussing it with my friend here and we are both confused about why you are even posting )

You also seem to be intent on making null points and defending boredom/frustration as a requirement. Yes, The game is the way it is and no one is going to dispute that point. My friends and I don’t classify fun as a time sink and to do so would be a horrible mindset to live in; and for that I feel sorry for you.

I am quite dumbfounded by your intention. I understand your words as I am an intelligent person, but I am hoping a point would be made about the enjoyment (and overall).

I suggest to stop writing to me as though I am unaware of what grind is. I have done so with many hack and slash, mmos and rpgs. Repetition is not the problem, it is tedium. I also suggest to stick to that point when providing your next response.

Please make a point rather than telling me exactly what I know in some sort of strange opposition to my point combined with agreement.

Do you find kuva farming tedious or fun?

If you find it tedious then it would be logical to state so... explaining to me a facet of gameplay of which I may have more hours of experience than you is not constructive at all.

If you agree then why say to accept it. That’s just not very useful input at all.

I believe you need to have a think about what you are posting and why.

Games are meant to be fun, even if grindy. If they do not achieve this task then I can guarantee you that there is a better way to execute the gameplay, if you even attempt to dispute this then I’ll know you are just arguing for fun.

That’s entirely NOT what I play games for.

Riven re rolling is essentially gambling and further adds to the tedium if luck is not on your side. The kuva gathering experience needs an overhaul as it is not a positive aspect of the game’s overall design.

Maybe you’re just better equipped at being bored than me.

 

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

I wanted to disagree with you, but the more I think about it... ...yeah, you're right.

But let us compare notes first. Are you a solo player? I am and that's usually why I get bored, but the I find that playing with other people is stressful. My point is that doing something like the index or 5-wave Dark Sector defenses for credits would probably be more exciting if we had kindred spirits to chew the fat with.

As far as kuva, I just managed to complete all the challenges on my rivens, literally, yesterday (had been putting them on the back burner for a while) and haven't really needed kuva since introduction of War Within. So basically, kuva siphon is still pretty exciting for me. I do think it would be wise for the devs to add kuva rewards to all the kuva nodes on the kuva fortress.

No human developer could ever come up with something that will continually capture the human mind. We're just not wired like that. Instead, we're hard-coded to gather data and conquer whatever comes across our paths. Once we've conquered it, we get bored with it. Unless the devs create a completely new mission experience on a daily basis, we will never be satisfied.

The true Warframe end game, for me, is getting to the point where every activity is on the level of muscle memory or natural genetic encoding for me, being able to do endless missions beyond 2 hours without cheating or exploiting,  and being able to help new players with all aspects of Warframe without referring to the Wiki.

[JohnKable]

just do index when you get a credit booster, even with a 3h booster you can stockpile a pretty nice amount of credits. Also do medium index, it is faster and mindless grind. maybe its not enjoyable but doing it for 2h hours straight when you have a booster on saves double the time of farming when youll actually need credit and dont have a booster.
Also do sorties everytime you see the 3 missions are pretty quick, youll get good credits and usually a decent reward for the time you spent.
In all that the only thing i would really change is the index mechanic: it should simply end the match when the score mark is reached

As for Kuva i agree, i dont like farming for it so i prefer farming for valuable stuff, sell it and then buy good rolled rivens from people that like to do kuva farming. And there's alot of people out there that like kuva farming.

Overall its not that bad, you should just farm with intelligence. Farm seriously when double credits/resources are available and stockpile for the times of need and spend the rest of the time doing stuff you like.
And here talking a very casual player, but even as a casual player i have all the relevant mods maxed out, same goes for frames, weps etc. always sitting on atleast a couple millions of credits and always atleast enough endo to max out 3-4 primed mods if needed.

[saradonin]

As someone who did several 100-200k kuva marathons (with booster and Smeeta) to roll rivens for some of my favourite weapons, I can partly understand your frustration. They're still not perfect, so work in progress. WORK, literally. Farming large amounts of kuva feels like work - something I actually enjoy doing for short period of time, but what becomes tiresome after a while and I have to force myself to do it in order to achieve the intended goal or profit. So, yeah, I feel you, but...

Nothing is locked behind it.
You've made it look like you HAVE TO do it to play the game. Here is the news - you don't. Rivens are not needed for any part of the game. Every single thing there is to be done, can easily and casually be done without it. Perhaps your struggle to achieve the perfect stats and loadouts pushed you to the point you believe it's mandatory. It's not. Don't make it your work, take a deep break after work and enjoy the game.

[Kuestenjung]

If you feel the need to actively farm credits then the problem is with you and not the game. You are getting credits everywhere. I have never, even once, farmed credits.

If you don´t think the missions you mentioned are fun then don´t do them, it´s that simple. Tha´s why I am not owning Harrow for example and probably won´t.

Kuva is the same, although here you need to farm it, but you have several different missions to get Kuva. There are at least 4 different Kuva siphon missions, then you have the bounties on Cetus and Sorties too.

 

[ActionPoohole]

6 hours ago, Mintaro said:

Credits have plenty of ways being gained infact people in the millions before index. So switch things up.

Kuva missions are still the most reliable way due to sorties not being 100% getting same with bounties.

So in summary you got options for creds but not much in kuva but atleast that changes in missions.

You have some sense in your words but you are exploding this out of proportion in my opinion.

Sorties give you 6000 Kuva.. That's enough for less than 2 rolls which is a pretty unrewarding and inefficient way of getting KUVA. So any point about KUVA from that standpoint doesn't hold much merit even if Sorties were available all day long.

Exploding out of proportion is subjective.

2 hours ago, (PS4)supernova_girlie said:

I wanted to disagree with you, but the more I think about it... ...yeah, you're right.

But let us compare notes first. Are you a solo player? I am and that's usually why I get bored, but the I find that playing with other people is stressful. My point is that doing something like the index or 5-wave Dark Sector defenses for credits would probably be more exciting if we had kindred spirits to chew the fat with.

As far as kuva, I just managed to complete all the challenges on my rivens, literally, yesterday (had been putting them on the back burner for a while) and haven't really needed kuva since introduction of War Within. So basically, kuva siphon is still pretty exciting for me. I do think it would be wise for the devs to add kuva rewards to all the kuva nodes on the kuva fortress.

No human developer could ever come up with something that will continually capture the human mind. We're just not wired like that. Instead, we're hard-coded to gather data and conquer whatever comes across our paths. Once we've conquered it, we get bored with it. Unless the devs create a completely new mission experience on a daily basis, we will never be satisfied.

The true Warframe end game, for me, is getting to the point where every activity is on the level of muscle memory or natural genetic encoding for me, being able to do endless missions beyond 2 hours without cheating or exploiting,  and being able to help new players with all aspects of Warframe without referring to the Wiki.

Not a Solo player at ALL.

My friends demeanour changes after being in the index for more than an hour... Doing other aspects of the game generally doesn't do that. KUVA farming does the same sort of things. My friends would rather do something else than go KUVA or Credit farming. Everyone sounds similar in their voices after doing Index and also after the Acolyte event... Unhappy to pretty much annoyed and tired. It's not a good aspect of the game and needs to feel like less of a time sink.

"No human developer could ever come up with something that will continually capture the human mind." - I believe the more you limit yourself with this specific rule in place the more this will further hinder any progress towards bettering entertainment value. I think your comment about creating a completely new mission experience on a daily basis is ridiculous stretch from the truth.

People thrive on interactivity which is why the modding system gets so much entertainment value. The same goes for Fashion frame, it allows people a lot to tinker with... These aspects get the most entertainment out of people.

As for modes? The most popular game modes are Defense and Survival... Why is this? Due to the endless nature that doesn't give us as much chance to get bored. We can leave when we want or we can attempt to go further... It's fun because the challenge gets harder and harder. The same can NOT be said for KUVA or INDEX. The challenge of these stops once you reach the goal. KUVA stays at a set difficulty, Index scales up to a certain point. It doesn't reward you anything except some form of efficiency in earning and even then you are limited by a forced countdown timer that has a stupid forced suicide mechanic built into it.

You don't need to introduce a new game mode daily to keep people happy and enjoying themselves... You just have to list a few times to complaints like this and gather some suggestions on how this could be improved... Make an intelligent compromise between developers and players to create an outcome that both sides can agree on then move forward. It's really simple and straight forward.

I'm sure everyone's end game is different... For me it's making interesting weapons capable of more and using Riven mods to do that. It's my way of interacting beyond a limited toolset of standard mods. The riven stats are not there to make weapons just help to kill beyond level 500 enemies, they're there to make the weapons work in different ways for added interactivity.

I'm really not sure why everyone in here seems to be so limited in their thinking about this subjective. I'm not here doing anything except complaining about a negative aspect of the game and the best responses I seem to get are the ones that can barely compliment Index or KUVA farming at all.

There is a way for these tasks to be enjoyable, and eventually repetitive yet still enjoyable. Survivals and Defense are missions are like that! So why not KUVA? Kuva makes you Start, stop... Star, Stop... Do boring mission, again... Again.. Again... Survival makes you encounter heavier enemies and gives you a yardstick to measure your weapon / warframe progress.

Sure, you don't need Riven mods but they are a huge portion of the game that adds a great deal of interactivity to the weapons. To gain access to this content more thoroughly a new system needs to be introduced. Limited thinking on this matter is not good for anyone imo.

1 hour ago, saradonin said:

As someone who did several 100-200k kuva marathons (with booster and Smeeta) to roll rivens for some of my favourite weapons, I can partly understand your frustration. They're still not perfect, so work in progress. WORK, literally. Farming large amounts of kuva feels like work - something I actually enjoy doing for short period of time, but what becomes tiresome after a while and I have to force myself to do it in order to achieve the intended goal or profit. So, yeah, I feel you, but...

Nothing is locked behind it.
You've made it look like you HAVE TO do it to play the game. Here is the news - you don't. Rivens are not needed for any part of the game. Every single thing there is to be done, can easily and casually be done without it. Perhaps your struggle to achieve the perfect stats and loadouts pushed you to the point you believe it's mandatory. It's not. Don't make it your work, take a deep break after work and enjoy the game.

Where did I say or make it look like you HAVE to do Rivens to play the game? I didn't say that... I specifically came in and said that KUVA and INDEX are horrible tasks, never did I say that you HAVE to do Rivens. That's your interpretation of what I said and I did no such thing. In no way would you ever need Riven mods to complete sortie missions.

So no, I never said you HAVE to do Rivens... I said you HAVE to do horribly tedious and boring missions to thoroughly work this system to enjoy them. Heck, you don't HAVE to do WARFRAME if you don't want.. But we are doing it right? Why? Because it's fun to play? If it was an awful task to partake in then we probably wouldn't be doing it.

Warframe has so much good going for it, but it's soured up by some really horrible design choices. I don't play games to do things easily, I give myself a challenge which is why I like to run survivals with certain builds in play to see how long they last... Using Riven mods is a tool to allow added interactivity in gaining more progress within these self imposed challenges... But they are my own challenge that the game survival or defense system allows by 'endlessly' increasing the difficulty.

The sortie missions are easy and most of us with a little experience know this. They are no longer the challenge... The challenge after this is gathering platinum for fashion frame or getting Riven mods for extra weapon strength and customised builds. I didn't make it work, INDEX and KUVA farming directly makes it work by being itself. They are the primary reasons for not only my own frustration, but for many others. I think people need to discuss their opinions on KUVA farming and INDEX farming rather than ranting on about what they think I think about the game. My opinions on what I think about the game are positive for most aspects... I came here to complain about specific issues and I think it's a bit rude to start dissecting how I enjoy the game and essentially telling me that I should be enjoying the aspects available to me rather than opening up a discussion on how to improve enjoyable access to aspects of the game that many people find to be essential to their end game experience. They are given as sortie rewards yet the system to re roll them completely sucks.

If you didn't have to spend all afternoon on possibly STANK rolls after doing BORING missions then maybe said STANK rolls wouldn't feel like such a horrible endeavour in the first place.

So yes, there is something locked behind it... A tool to allow a greater and more customised PUSH through the only real challenge this game gives us, and that's to see how far our gear we spend so long farming for will actually take us... 

And of course to have fun with custom builds that directly entail the use of Rivens. With normal mods you will hit the same wall as everyone else... With Rivens you can do more, or do it differently.. That is where fun for many of us comes from. Why lock it behind such a horribly mundane time sink like KUVA farming.

I am yet to see anyone praise it like they do survivals, defense or even SPY missions...

It needs work.. Perhaps we could stop talking about ME and dissecting what I think when you guys really have no idea and are way off the point of this... And start focusing on what you think about KUVA and INDEX farming and if you think it could be improved... and HOW?

Stop taking my comments everyone and skewing your own meaning into them... No one has yet cared to ask me any questions, instead have this predetermined view of anyone complaining as "needing a break" or "wrong perspective" ... My perspective is fine... and I share this view with many of my friends. Most of them telling me they'd rather not do KUVA or INDEX unless entirely necessary... And that is very disappointing.

Edited January 2, 2018 by ActionPoohole

[ActionPoohole]

1 hour ago, Kuestenjung said:

If you feel the need to actively farm credits then the problem is with you and not the game. You are getting credits everywhere. I have never, even once, farmed credits.

If you don´t think the missions you mentioned are fun then don´t do them, it´s that simple. Tha´s why I am not owning Harrow for example and probably won´t.

Kuva is the same, although here you need to farm it, but you have several different missions to get Kuva. There are at least 4 different Kuva siphon missions, then you have the bounties on Cetus and Sorties too.

 

First of all, if you used the plain's bounties to farm KUVA you would take probably weeks of endless farming to do maybe a couple of rolls at most. There are a bunch of different rewards and a measly 300 KUVA is one of them. It's also a lower chance reward. If you went to the Plains for KUVA specifically you would be there a LONG time before getting any decent rolls on a Riven mod... So that is just ... ugh... Really? You're much more likely to get a headache than KUVA if you went to the plains specifically for KUVA... At least you can get something worthwhile from the Plains, but that's only an attempt to justify the poor KUVA rewards.

As for 4 different KUVA siphon missions? Different? Well, not really.. They are the exact same task plonked in the middle of old content. For no reason can I see us being unable to leave with the KUVA till we hack three terminals... Or till we capture a target or whatever... These missions are not tied together... Go in, grab the KUVA and Leave. Why do we need to hack terminals and help people when the task is KUVA. It's Just stupid and not well thought out... and Lazy!

Let me elaborate on my thoughts of YOUR lazy post now:

Your reply is the most limited thinking, thoughtless and backwards response. 'If you don't like it then don't do it' ... Do you have anything useful to actually add to the discussion?

Harrow farming is something you only have to do until you have gained access to Harrow. After that point you need not farm Harrow anymore... Am I correct? KUVA farming is essential to make use of arguably one of the most interesting and/or interactive aspects of Warframe weaponry modding.

Making a comparison like you did between your laziness and/or boredom to farm for Harrow and my complaints with KUVA farming is just RIDICULOUS. Harrow farming is a task that can be stopped upon completion. KUVA farming is something that will arise every single time you are rewarded or purchase a RIVEN mod. KUVA farming is a tool in order to customise and enjoy your riven mods properly. Harrow can be done with once Harrow is completed. KUVA extends far beyond access to a single Warframe. Once you gather KUVA it is consumed with the very high possibility of ZERO reward.. This can happen time and time and time again. Even once you get a great roll... This task will arise yet AGAIN any time you want to customise a NEW weapon.. Something that is a CORE experience for many of us. Sure, Fashion frame and etc is fun... But Weapons and Frames should be the main reason to play Warframe. Gunplay and wrecking stuff. I could play Warframe easily if it was all about weapon and frame customisation... But I could NOT play it if it was all about Fashion frame only.

So, Farming for Harrow until it's completed and DONE? Vs the ENDLESSLY Arising need for KUVA farming.... Comparing these 2 tasks is just so far from reality it hurts my brain. 

'If you don't like then don't do' ... Come on man, seriously? If this is the sort of response that people only have access in their minds to then I have come to the wrong place for discussion... I seriously am starting to regret this because I am yet to see any constructive feedback. Everyone dissecting how I enjoy the game, saying to take a break or saying I don't have to do them... If you take me for some kind of an idiot then just say it... But don't talk to me like one and act like you're adding to the conversation

I think I'm gonna bow out of this ridiculous conversation if comments like this persist.

Make some positive constructive comments rather than just saying to not do things. That's just entirely counterproductive. If people don't find it interesting, then just say so... Don't try and shred me for complaining about it like fanboys. I love Warframe, but come back down to Earth please.

Edited January 2, 2018 by ActionPoohole

[Yagamilight123]

53 minutes ago, ActionPoohole said:

Sorties give you 6000 Kuva.. That's enough for less than 2 rolls which is a pretty unrewarding and inefficient way of getting KUVA. So any point about KUVA from that standpoint doesn't hold much merit even if Sorties were available all day long.

Exploding out of proportion is subjective.

Not a Solo player at ALL.

My friends demeanour changes after being in the index for more than an hour... Doing other aspects of the game generally doesn't do that. KUVA farming does the same sort of things. My friends would rather do something else than go KUVA or Credit farming. Everyone sounds similar in their voices after doing Index and also after the Acolyte event... Unhappy to pretty much annoyed and tired. It's not a good aspect of the game and needs to feel like less of a time sink.

"No human developer could ever come up with something that will continually capture the human mind." - I believe the more you limit yourself with this specific rule in place the more this will further hinder any progress towards bettering entertainment value. I think your comment about creating a completely new mission experience on a daily basis is ridiculous stretch from the truth.

People thrive on interactivity which is why the modding system gets so much entertainment value. The same goes for Fashion frame, it allows people a lot to tinker with... These aspects get the most entertainment out of people.

As for modes? The most popular game modes are Defense and Survival... Why is this? Due to the endless nature that doesn't give us as much chance to get bored. We can leave when we want or we can attempt to go further... It's fun because the challenge gets harder and harder. The same can NOT be said for KUVA or INDEX. The challenge of these stops once you reach the goal. KUVA stays at a set difficulty, Index scales up to a certain point. It doesn't reward you anything except some form of efficiency in earning and even then you are limited by a forced countdown timer that has a stupid forced suicide mechanic built into it.

You don't need to introduce a new game mode daily to keep people happy and enjoying themselves... You just have to list a few times to complaints like this and gather some suggestions on how this could be improved... Make an intelligent compromise between developers and players to create an outcome that both sides can agree on then move forward. It's really simple and straight forward.

I'm sure everyone's end game is different... For me it's making interesting weapons capable of more and using Riven mods to do that. It's my way of interacting beyond a limited toolset of standard mods. The riven stats are not there to make weapons just help to kill beyond level 500 enemies, they're there to make the weapons work in different ways for added interactivity.

I'm really not sure why everyone in here seems to be so limited in their thinking about this subjective. I'm not here doing anything except complaining about a negative aspect of the game and the best responses I seem to get are the ones that can barely compliment Index or KUVA farming at all.

There is a way for these tasks to be enjoyable, and eventually repetitive yet still enjoyable. Survivals and Defense are missions are like that! So why not KUVA? Kuva makes you Start, stop... Star, Stop... Do boring mission, again... Again.. Again... Survival makes you encounter heavier enemies and gives you a yardstick to measure your weapon / warframe progress.

Sure, you don't need Riven mods but they are a huge portion of the game that adds a great deal of interactivity to the weapons. To gain access to this content more thoroughly a new system needs to be introduced. Limited thinking on this matter is not good for anyone imo.

Where did I say or make it look like you HAVE to do Rivens to play the game? I didn't say that... I specifically came in and said that KUVA and INDEX are horrible tasks, never did I say that you HAVE to do Rivens. That's your interpretation of what I said and I did no such thing. In no way would you ever need Riven mods to complete sortie missions.

So no, I never said you HAVE to do Rivens... I said you HAVE to do horribly tedious and boring missions to thoroughly work this system to enjoy them. Heck, you don't HAVE to do WARFRAME if you don't want.. But we are doing it right? Why? Because it's fun to play? If it was an awful task to partake in then we probably wouldn't be doing it.

Warframe has so much good going for it, but it's soured up by some really horrible design choices. I don't play games to do things easily, I give myself a challenge which is why I like to run survivals with certain builds in play to see how long they last... Using Riven mods is a tool to allow added interactivity in gaining more progress within these self imposed challenges... But they are my own challenge that the game survival or defense system allows by 'endlessly' increasing the difficulty.

The sortie missions are easy and most of us with a little experience know this. They are no longer the challenge... The challenge after this is gathering platinum for fashion frame or getting Riven mods for extra weapon strength and customised builds. I didn't make it work, INDEX and KUVA farming directly makes it work by being itself. They are the primary reasons for not only my own frustration, but for many others. I think people need to discuss their opinions on KUVA farming and INDEX farming rather than ranting on about what they think I think about the game. My opinions on what I think about the game are positive for most aspects... I came here to complain about specific issues and I think it's a bit rude to start dissecting how I enjoy the game and essentially telling me that I should be enjoying the aspects available to me rather than opening up a discussion on how to improve enjoyable access to aspects of the game that many people find to be essential to their end game experience. They are given as sortie rewards yet the system to re roll them completely sucks.

If you didn't have to spend all afternoon on possibly STANK rolls after doing BORING missions then maybe said STANK rolls wouldn't feel like such a horrible endeavour in the first place.

So yes, there is something locked behind it... A tool to allow a greater and more customised PUSH through the only real challenge this game gives us, and that's to see how far our gear we spend so long farming for will actually take us... 

And of course to have fun with custom builds that directly entail the use of Rivens. With normal mods you will hit the same wall as everyone else... With Rivens you can do more, or do it differently.. That is where fun for many of us comes from. Why lock it behind such a horribly mundane time sink like KUVA farming.

I am yet to see anyone praise it like they do survivals, defense or even SPY missions...

It needs work.. Perhaps we could stop talking about ME and dissecting what I think when you guys really have no idea and are way off the point of this... And start focusing on what you think about KUVA and INDEX farming and if you think it could be improved... and HOW?

Stop taking my comments everyone and skewing your own meaning into them... No one has yet cared to ask me any questions, instead have this predetermined view of anyone complaining as "needing a break" or "wrong perspective" ... My perspective is fine... and I share this view with many of my friends. Most of them telling me they'd rather not do KUVA or INDEX unless entirely necessary... And that is very disappointing.

So , you want to change a lot of things just because are bored for you (and your friend) ... and all other people are the "subjective" ones . Dont like index? , farm in another place ... credits farm goes back a lot before index . Dont like farm kuva? , buy a rolled mod . Want to be lazy ?  , buy another game .

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

3 hours ago, ActionPoohole said:

 

"No human developer could ever come up with something that will continually capture the human mind." - I believe the more you limit yourself with this specific rule in place the more this will further hinder any progress towards bettering entertainment value. I think your comment about creating a completely new mission experience on a daily basis is ridiculous stretch from the truth.

People thrive on interactivity which is why the modding system gets so much entertainment value. The same goes for Fashion frame, it allows people a lot to tinker with... These aspects get the most entertainment out of people.

 

What is this rule we speak of? Are you balking at, at least, 2000 years of experiment and experience about how the human mind works? 

Yet here we are in a thread which you've created, mind you, that is making the complaint that "good loot is locked behind mundane tasks." Emphasis is mine, of course. If what I wrote wasn't true, then this thread would not exist.

Grand Theft Auto V and Grand Theft Auto Online exist. Combined there's practically nothing that you can do in real life that you can't do on GTA. Yet compared to the first two years of its release, there's hardly anyone playing it and many other video games have been created since its release, have gotten decent player bases and then have fallen off. Why do you think this is true?

Like I originally said, I wanted to disagree with you, but you're absolutely right, the tasks are boring. I especially agree with your statement about how the devs could make kuva farming more interesting instead of just plopping it down in the same tired missions. BUT...

Everything cost time and money. We tenno want new quests, new gear, new modes; new changes to the user interface, dojo, orbiter, etc. These things cost time and money. Warframe is on THREE platforms. Pre-Calc: Limits exist. I'm still wondering when the console bubble burst will happen, the PoE update seems to have pushed my PS4 to the brink. AND...

Once all of these things are added and changes are made, we will still be bored after we've completed all the content, because nothing; at least not at the moment, can truly compare to real life.

 

 

[Vanille]

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)Juniormech777 said:

Is that even possible when Sorties reset everyday?

Yes. You run the first 2 sortie missions and save the 3rd one after daily reset. Sortie/Syndicate daily missions reset at a different time than daily tribute/standing/first mission bonus.

[Vanille]

Uh...double post x.x

Edited January 2, 2018 by Kiwinille

[(PSN)watt4hem]

12 hours ago, (Xbox One)Juniormech777 said:

Is that even possible when Sorties reset everyday?

Yes. In my time zone (gmt +7), the daily reset is somewhere around 8 am ish (never really pinpointed it), and the sortie reset is at 11pm. I just do sortie 1 and 2, wait for tomorrow, then do the 3rd sortie. Later that night i'd do the 1 and 2 again.

[Miser_able]

13 hours ago, ActionPoohole said:

 I am sick of fun things being locked behind the most mundane tasks. 

Congratulations. You just described the very essence of life. 

[Bao]

Coming from someone who has played grind intensive games, if your complaint is that the game is a bore when it comes to Kuva or credit farming you have a whole different boat coming at you as you've seen from numerous previous posts. If you think spies are boring, going stealth, solve the ciphers, then get out, try using a different frame to challenge yourself. Instead of Ash/Ivara/Loki/Limbo why not some absurd frame like Rhino or Nezha? Can't deal with the grind that is Index? Look at Hieracon. It's the perfect mixture of credit farming, endo farming, relic farming, and exp farming if you so choose and challenges your load outs and weapon builds. It won't be in inexorbant amounts like Index or other farming methods, but I turn to Hieracon plenty times to give me a break from monotony. I do agree with you that there could be adjustments made to the terror that is Kuva farming, but for credits? There is no justification to increase or change mission rewards to grant more credits. Have you heard of Secura Lecta? Sure, they may have nerfed it somewhat, but take that to any mission and whip extra credits out of the enemy. I've also heard Chroma's 4th also makes mob drop more credits when it kills enemies, so you can quite easily take him to defense missions, park it on the point, and watch the credits fall. Index is not the only option to gain credits, it's the most efficient in terms of time and reward. 

 

Put it this way: a three day credit booster is 40 plat. You can find a couple of gold mods or prime parts, sell for that amount, and then take a weekend or whenever you have a stretch of free time to do credit farming. High risk index awards you 200k profits, but with a booster you receive 400k instead. A good team can complete a run of index in 10 minutes or under, and I myself have probably been running it wrong if I average 10 minutes a run. In one hour, you would have earned a whopping total of 2.4m credits. And you have a 3 day booster so you don't even have to do it all in one sitting. Even primed mods, the most costly of all mods to rank, take  1.9-2m credits from unranked to max and still leaves you with plenty to work with. 

 

I have friends who also run Semini on Ceres. 5 waves of quick defense nets you about 25-30k a run, plus lith relics to burn for prime parts. Takes at most 5 minutes, and you come out with 200-300k an hour, or more. It's the best to cover something you're just barely short on, so you don't have to do the big grind that is index. If you have a booster, double those numbers. 

 

Sorties and raids, as many have mentioned previously, also award a good amount of credits for the challenge of the mission. Raids will net you somewhere between 200-400k credits for a run that takes on average 30 minutes, and sorties also give you rewards like the rivens you covet so much. Or if you're the unlucky sap, an ayatan statue instead of 4k endo but hey you're going to need that endo for our lovely 40k endo per primed mod builds. Or if you're super unlucky, an exilus  adapter for those who witnessed the little oppsie by [DE] Rebecca, but I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. And you might just be super lucky to get the elusive Legendary core which removes ALL endo and credit costs for a mod and fully maxes it out. 

 

I think the main issue here is that you want the reward table of regular missions altered to drop somewhat rare resources, and for other missions to substantially increase their credit reward so you can do more with as little effort as possible. If you argue for kuva you have to argue for Nitain, Tellurium, Orokin Cells, Neural Sensors, Neurodes, Oxium, and a few others I've probably missed. I could see the complaint being more justified with Nitain, considering that Nitain shows up on alerts at least 4 times a day (less for the working man) and the drop chance for it is 1%on the third found cache on the Kuva Fortress or Lua. Frames use it, helmets use it, weapons use it, and hell even dojo research requires it. Tellurium is used mostly on archwing weapons, a game mode only the dedicated play. Orokin cells are used for everything and often cost 5-10 to make most primed items, and for new players is quite a struggle. Neural Sensors and Neurodes are perhaps a little more common than the rarer sort but still share the same conundrum of being out when you need them. And Oxium is needed in inexorbant amounts for weapons, Vauban Prime, gear, etc. 

 

Now, Kuva itself is not at all a rare resource. If anything, it is a readily available resource that changes from planet to planet, and increases the difficulty of mobs to levels not seen often outside of raids, sorties, and endurance missions. They could have a reason to have the rerolls cost so much and the rewards just enough to do it once or twice, if you've hit the max cap of 3.5k kuva per reroll. It could skyrocket or depreciate the value of rivens because everyone has a higher chance of hitting that sweet spot, but the thing with rivens you need to understand is that they're not designed to overpower your Opticor, Tigris Prime, Vectis Prime, etc. They are meant to make older, less popular weapons more viable in late game content, and it shows. You'll see Daikyu performing at a reasonable level as the ever popular Dread. Braton Prime stands side by side with Soma Prime. Tipedo can keep up with Orthos Prime. To name a few of course. Kuva /should/ drop from the Kuva fortress honestly, while well still being available as siphons and floods. How much begs the question at that point, and how willing are people going to be to spend a lot of time running through a mostly vertical labyrinth when most missions outside of the fortress are horizontal and straightforward? Who else would be willing to dedicate themselves to rivens that much, outside of those who've already rerolled their rivens 70, 80, 90 times? What about the especially dedicated players, who farmed well over 8 million Kuva since its release? What would they have to say about Kuva suddenly being as common as Nanospores? (I'm joking about the last question, if we had that much Kuva,  riven trading would a different animal than today) 

Warframe in itself is inherently a grind of a game. Yes, parts of it still needs a lot of work and some of its systems have been overshadowed by other things. But overall as a game, it is a grind where you feel that the effort you put in gets you somewhere. Nothing you do in warframe is considered a waste (unless you're my poor friend putting a potato on a MK1 Braton, but then again I know a person who put a ridiculous number of forma on a MK1 Braton) and you are constantly working towards a point where you feel that work come to fruition. Yes there are days where you won't be able to stand it as you are describing now. But time rewards those who are patient and especially dedicated. DE takes a platform where you're not instantly given everything and made overpowered right off the bat. You struggle, you find ways to persevere, you learn and adapt. You become better and you work on yourself to be stronger. That is the Tenno way, and will always be that way. Sure they've given out free stuff like Soma Prime and Frost Prime, that might give new players an advantage, but it doesn't mean they're automatically better than you. They still have to learn the frame, the abilites, how to play the game and such. Most games will give out a set of gear at the start that'll carry you to level 20 before the next set at 30, so on and so forth. Not warframe, and that is what it makes it unique. 

You want to complain about grind? Take Maplestory for example. You sit on one platform, spam one ability to kill mobs, and watch as you gain about 10% experience after 2 hours. Or how about those endless raids in WoW or Final Fantasy for that singular piece of gear that may not drop with the best stats?  Granted these are different kinds of games but compared to those, warframe grinding seems so insignificant and not an inconvenience at all. 

 

TL;DR: Kuva drop locations should change. Try different missions for credit farming. Take breaks when you feel you need a break. If DE changes something, it's usually because the community as a whole has given enough feedback to warrant that change. If Kuva/credit farming is so intolerable, get your friends together and spread the word on what could be done better. Be the originator of ideas and innovation, not a rabble rouse because of your frustrations. 

 

And this a new year. Smile, say hi to the sun, and don't let a single moment of ire be the reason you start off on the wrong foot. Make this year great for yourself! 

 

Edit: End game is not kuva and credit farming. They are components of it and assist in reaching that goal, but they also are an integral aspect of the game throughout. Kuva isn't just used for rivens, it is also needed to build things. Case in point: Harrow, Orvius. 

Edited January 2, 2018 by Bao
Read original post again. Noted other things.

[phoenix1992]

Grind in Warframe?

[Mach25]

23 hours ago, ActionPoohole said:

...

It needs work.. Perhaps we could stop talking about ME and dissecting what I think when you guys really have no idea and are way off the point of this... And start focusing on what you think about KUVA and INDEX farming and if you think it could be improved... and HOW?

Stop taking my comments everyone and skewing your own meaning into them... No one has yet cared to ask me any questions, instead have this predetermined view of anyone complaining as "needing a break" or "wrong perspective" ... My perspective is fine... and I share this view with many of my friends. Most of them telling me they'd rather not do KUVA or INDEX unless entirely necessary... And that is very disappointing.

Welcome to the Warframe forums, where serious discussion and collaboration are not quite so highly valued as the previous behavior mentioned. You'll find this very often, where one would seek to discuss mechanics and make viable alternatives, you will have talkers with nothing to say, a poor way to be indeed.

I will send you a message privately.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Mach25

[ActionPoohole]

On 02/01/2018 at 3:02 PM, (PS4)KingGuy420 said:

In a game that's built around farming stuff, no I'm not going to play something just for enjoyment with no rewards. If I wanted that I'd go play something else. As it sits right now mobile defense, rescues, exterminations all reward nothing. Kuva gives them a reason to exist and be played, something they didn't have pre Kuva lol.

But it really doesn't matter. You didn't start this thread with the intention of hearing peoples opinions anyways, you just made it so people would hear yours. I came in here thinking this was to open conversation about it, not to listen to one guy whine lol. So I doubt I'll be back after this post.

You say that the game is about farming and you seem to be intent that there is nothing more to it unless you get loot at the end. Well there is more to it than that. The reason why mods are there is to allow us to customise how we take our journey. It's not all about the end result, but how we get there and I think you need to remember that.

The game will only get better if you have an open mind about all aspects rather than the end result. Saying that everything is pointless unless there is loot at the end completely ignores the point at hand. You are ignoring that some of the journeys to said loot actually SUCK, and that is a huge problem. You spend a lot of time doing "boring" grinding to get cool loot, yet you are using said loot to do more of the boring. That's a pretty bad loop to be on. So fix the issues of the boring journey and people are more likely to enjoy the overall experience.

So you need to open your mind up to all aspects rather than just being locked gun ho into your limited thinking pattern.

KUVA farming needs to be less tedious and not tied into missions that are repetitive and so easy. That's just monotony. My friends and I did a 10 hour long KUVA farm and we were so mentally wrecked that it leads us to less than 16 rolls on a Riven mod. The journey was not fun, we only were able to get through it by hanging out as friends. But we were all quiet at the end and people were ready to flop in depression. It's not a nice experience, alleviated only by our camaraderie.

Take a look at the journey and pretend there is no loot at the end... Only then will you be able to work out how to make the game better. Excusing the journey due to the reward is a weak point of view and needs to be scrapped from your thinking pattern (IMO).

[ActionPoohole]

2 hours ago, Mach25 said:

Welcome to the Warframe forums, where serious discussion and collaboration are not quite so highly valued as the previous behavior mentioned. You'll find this very often, where one would seek to discuss mechanics and make viable alternatives, you will have talkers with nothing to say, a poor way to be indeed.

I will send you a message privately.

I know, it's really disheartening to come onto these forums and have people trash you when they haven't even spoken about the point at hand.

I came in here for discussion, but instead I am getting critiqued about every single point except the points which I raised.

[ActionPoohole]

On 02/01/2018 at 2:56 PM, GinKenshin said:

yes. I'll talk about my personal time zone here. sorties reset at 7 PM, while the daily reset is at 2 AM. so you can easily do the first 2 sorties and then save up the last one. when you get the login reward, go do the 3rd 

let's make things clear. as others pointed out, index isn't the only way to get credits. you say you don't like it then why the F*** do you do it then? go do a dark sector or swap between, sure it MIGHT not be as efficient but at least you're not not having fun. as for the index it self, you only need to die because of some people collecting loads of points, banking them and the time goes off by a lot. simple make a squad of clannies, friends ( doubt it) or recruit some, saying that you're only going for the 50 points cap and no need for overbanking bull you hate so much 

as for kuva. it's totally a side thing. idk why ppl *@##$ about this tbh. so what do you want exactly? to do the same mission, on the same tileset every single time until your brain melts? that was the old void farming and this will not be coming back. you better get used to this.....also doing missions you don't like? dude there's like 5-6 siphon missions active at all times, as for the flood, just stick it up for once

also, you want the siphon to just suck some kuva, then 5 sec later it'll try to suck more? dude....that's not how games work. there's some actual crap to deal with in these missions. you don't want to wait a min or two now? 


also, you got it backwards. people enjoy doing these random missions, they just didn't do them because they had no rewards. now they do 

I am not going to read past your swearing because it's clear you have nothing to add to the discussion. Come back with a cool head and talk to me like a human being otherwise your posts have no merit. I stopped reading at " then why the F*** do you do it then?"

Don't you dare speak to me like that.