Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[DeadMansChest]

If anything actually, all this WoF nerf is gonna do is promote WoF activation spam but I guess that's fine because that'll make it so much more interactive, yeah?

[MasterControl]

Sounds mostly good. I still advocate for Mag's Polarize to strip defenses by percentage and lose the damage, but that's just me. Bladestorm changes look good, but still doesn't fix the requirement to have a seizure to effectively target enemies. Please please please make targeting a cone, if that interferes with adding multiple stacks just have staring at an enemy for a bit add more stacks. The community has asked for ages to allow Chroma to swap elements mid-mission. If we could get the ability to do that, and perhaps have a look at what those elements do in the meantime. Ice chroma is fine, Fire is fine, Shield Chroma should be able to generate overshields for himself and his team in some fashion, and perhaps allow Toxin to regenerate health, as Chroma is required to take damage but has no natural way of regaining that hp, you'd have to turn off your ice armor buff, which should balance this. Zephyr is looking good, however her augment for tornadoes will likely need a change. Perhaps for the aug, make tornadoes static, and allow you to spawn one at a time? Sort of like Atlas' bulwark aug. That way you have the option to make them immobile if you don't want to fiddle around with controlling the tornadoes. Air blast is interesting, I'm curious to see how it behaves in practice.

Edit: For Ember, if you guys are going to buff her 1/3, remember: you introduced chargeable abilities with Gara's 1. Perhaps Fireball could receive the same treatment, making it act like a Napalm grenade that travels in an arc when charged. As for her 3, so long as it has enough defensive utility to replace what she is losing from firequake, problem solved.

That is my two cents.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Mastercontrol98

[StarCommanderVong]

I use her first all the frickin' time, and her third is pretty effective, when you have a crowd or need to defend an objective for a little bit.

Ironically, I actually use her four pretty rarely.

But I like the passive idea you have, and the Charging mechanic from Hydroid should really get spread around more, that's a nice little thing.

[Guest]

Considering toggling WoF deals as much damage as fireball to 5 times the enemies for double the cost, well, yeah.

Doesn't make Ember's 3 or 1 more usable either.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Guest

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

I'm an Ember main, so I'll just lay my salt out now.  But what the heck are you guys thinking exactly?

I understand you seem to think the Toggle is cheese - but your response to it is disproportionate.  

You were kind, and gave us heightened damage over time.   This was countered by 2 things, both cost and range - and that's where my problem is.  Why would you impose TWO penalties while giving us only 1 benefit to the new change?

Increased cost makes alot of sense, and will help with the "cast and forget" (as you call it.)  However the decreased range is just a kick in the chops and pretty damn unfair to impose.  I don't use range mods, so what... I'm just going to go to -60% range in no time and have flames on my feet only?  While paying double energy at that...

It just seems like a disproportionate response to what otherwise is a non issue - I mean seriously, wasn't it only a year ago you turned Nekros into a toggle "cast and forget" frame.  You gonna nerf him next in the same way?  Why is it your idea of a fix for one frame - but you consider it a problem for this one???   I can't speak for every Ember player out there, but I already toggle on and off all the time for various reasons - so I might be able to mitigate some of the rampant energy costs.

Let's look at this as a big picture.  Without toggling, Ember's WoF with P. Flow and Streamline can currently easily last 6-8 minutes assuming ground pickups are good.  This will effectively cut that to 3-4 minutes, probably less because of energy pickups.  So not only are you stripping me of 4+ minutes... you are lowering my range by -60% (max negative range afaik). 

You've basically just turned my favourite frame for the last 4 years into something I won't use anymore at this rate.  I bought Ember in  the first PA we ever had on console, she has a special sentimental spot for me... and so this change HURTS.  

I feel even worse for low level players, because it's they - without good mods, and without going up against high level enemies - who are going to suffer the most.  How is it fair that an MR2 player on Earth is now going to burn out of energy within some 20 seconds lol.... they don't need increased damage against some level 10 grineer.  It's going to paint their view of Ember as a crap frame from the early get-go.  

I really hope you revise these changes before they roll out.  Again, I'm fine with the ever-increasing cost - but the decreasing range seems like a punishment to Ember players.

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by (PS4)lagrue

[(XBOX)RVN World News]

So, can someone tell me which frames got nerfed this time so I can shelf them now before changes come to console?

[ThymeL0rd]

I am very happy the Devs are taking their time to do a *Warframe * overhaul, tweaks/ QOL and whatnot style update. It is something that I personally have wanted for the longest time!-

[yles9056]

This is a feedback to Chroma's upcoming changes.

Vex Armor is getting some changes and fixes. The damage buff in the future will not be as extreme as its current state.

Damage buff is the primary reason why people play Chroma. Now that it's getting changed/nerfed, Chroma is going to need some compensation. Let's take a look at what DE is going to give to Chroma:

12 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Spectral Scream - Removed walk speed and jump restrictions You can now freely move while this is active! Damage output is now also affected by the Vex Armor's Fury bonus!

Being able to move fast is certainly a good change. Having higher damage is also welcomed. But plain damage is going to fall off quickly as enemy level rises. Spectral Scream needs more CC and utilities. Otherwise, there's still no reason to use it. At least make its status effect duration scales off power duration.

 

12 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Vex Armor - Fixed a longstanding issue with number calculation being multiplicative. Boosts now apply before upgrades instead of after, making the ability consistent with all other damage boosting abilities. Overshields are now considered for Vex Armor. Chroma's Vex Armor remains one of the top performing damage-multipliers in the game - and it's now an aura! Instead of just being focused on Chroma, it can now benefit allies in range.

I'm not sure if players will use Vex Armor to buff teammates. They'll probably use Narrow Minded as usual and use Vex Armor as a self buff ability.

 

 

In short, I don't think these changes are enough. There are still many things that needs to be changed:

-Spectral Scream: I don't think players are going to use it if it's not getting further changes.

-Afterburn: Augment that adds plain damage is not useful at all.

-Elemental Ward: It needs to have each element type balanced and larger radius if DE wants players to use it as an aura not a self buff.

-Everlasting Ward: An augment mod that doesn't benefit the user should be an Exilus mod.

-Vex Armor: It needs larger radius if DE wants players to use it as an aura not a self buff. And maybe some mechanic that encourages Chroma players to buff teammates. For example: damage to teammates also contributes to Vex Armor.

-Vexing Retaliation: Not sure how to change it, but it simply isn't an appealing augment mod.

-Effigy: It costs way too much energy! 10 per sec is too much!

-Guided Effigy: It's a cool augment mod, but costs way too much energy and Effigy's AI is terrible. Please make it as smart as tenno specters.

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by yles9056

[DarkRuler2500]

Lets see how fast the Ember Prime price drops.
I'd say no one buys the prime vaults packs now anymore.

[throwaway987654321]

Completely agreed. People use Ember because she lessens the tedium of "Alert - X reward. Enter. Run 2km across the entire map while killing, or staying in one place for 10 minutes while killing. Leave mission. Wait for next alert. Repeat."

Higher-level alerts should give higher rewards. Seeing my alerts screen filled with 4,500 credit "rewards" on a level 40-50 Orokin survival is anger fuel and usually enough to make me minimize the game and find something else to do until an important alert.

Please don't nerf Ember. We're just trying to enjoy the game.

[Nirune]

@[DE]Connor

On Atlas, I'm looking forward to the buff/change. I feel some things weren't explained or i missed them so a few question and 1 concerned mentioned on stream but needs to be explained. With enemies effected by Path of Statue augment count towards rubble (please yes). On the stream the petrify colors were mentioned, I've been playing atlas A LOT since the oberon rework something i've learned while being the "ore gaze" guy is petrify has 2 energy colors Yours and a yellow energy. Most of the time as playing atlas i don't see it unless my ping is high to the host. However many of the people i've ran claimed i was giving them seizures or massive head aches, I tried helping by changing my energy to black but that made it worse because it was BLACK YELLOW BLACK YELLOW and so on which was MUCH WORSE because of the dark/bright strobe effect. Now as much as i enjoy raves i know some people can seize and die.. obviously an extreme case. Atlas is not a commonly played frame, most low levels ask me "How the hell did you beat jordas" mean these people have never even had the chance to see/use the strobe petrify. Those who have atlas typically don't use it because of this reason/announce of using it. Now i'm going to keep playing atlas regardless but I'd Highly suggest lowering the flash speed to more of a slower/ a wave based light animation instead of strobe.

[DarkRuler2500]

I am totally agreeing with you here.

If the ability would have insane costs I'd be cool with it.
I am not fan of "turn on and forget" skills. But reducing the range reduces the total effectiveness of the skill as a whole.
With halved ability range you're somewhat 10 meters with 145% and if you go 235% range you loose to much dps.

DE, please consider the range reduction and only make the energy consumption higher over time!

[(PSN)Nyxn607]

I can see your side of this, and from your point of view ... yes it is kind of a S#&$ deal.

From a different point of view ... new players that get stuck with a ember player that casts her 4 and just kills everything, ruins the experience for someone trying to learn the game and actually work on their skills.  From this point of view, the reduced range makes sense to help with the new player issue.

I didn't get a chance to watch the dev stream ... can you just recast it, in order to reset the range?  I would assume so.  If this is the case, then it is just a minor annoyance to have to actually press the button more than once.

[GinKenshin]

tbh, at this point they should just scrap the ability. the concept is just not working

it's kinda hard to know where she'll fit without reworking the rest of her kit (for god's sake remove fireball for something else) but I sorta agree with you. she's been one of my fav ever since I started back in 2014 (dem thighs doe <3) 

 

imo, she's a 'necessary evil'. I mean, there's a lot of times I just don't wanna deal with enemies and just farm for medallions or ayatan or something

and I don't think the increased dmg is even worth it, she'll maybe be able to deal decent dmg at lvl50 or something and that's it 

I know she can gain energy through being on fire but that rarely happens

[Cryptix123]

If the devs want to make it so WoF becomes less of a "kill everything on the map steadily" ability and more "cleanse enemies nearby for a quick getaway", why not make it so that enemies who get damaged give her armor?

[LuckyCharm]

>.> i still think she should get a new ability.. Like a meteor rain around her that leaves fire patches everywhere it randomly hits. I want to light the world on fire. Not merely have pops of color appear around me 

[Chipputer]

Increased damage with a more focused range so you actually hit the immediate threats instead of that guy across the room. This is nothing but a boon to high level Ember play. Increased costs barely factor in. 3-4 minutes of up time on a skill like WoF is absurdly good.

[jiminatorx]

This is how you permanently solve the CC frame issue, otherwise you have the same issues with octavia, saryn and so forth.

[Wrathael]

I'd like to propose a TINY valkyr change! casting her one totally kills her momentum at the moment, I would love it if when you cast it for mobility (on a wall or ledge or something) it would just carry over her current speed and actually make her faster.

[(PSN)TertulSee]

Ember was the first frame I got after my starter was maxed. I skipped Rhino and immediately jump to her because I thought that she would be really cool. To this day, I don’t mind Ember at all. Yeah she’s kinda cheesy but she’s only good because of the fact that she can kill enemies without a flinch. I hope that DE reconsider this change or make additional changes to her other abilities to make all her abilities worth using. How about, using other abilities will increase the strength of WoF for a short time that can stack. This is the wrong direction because Ember can still fall off even with increased damage.

Edited February 3, 2018 by (PS4)godlysparta

[AFluffySpaceShark]

The ONLY thing here I don't like is the Ember change but even that isn't all that bad. At minimum drain her WOF takes like .75 Energy/sec so doubled that won't be very high. Plus more damage.

[GinKenshin]

the plus side of the scream is that it applies CC with cold/electric procs, and also some awesome buffs for condition overload....it's a neat first ability now imo 

for vex armor, I wouldn't scratch the aura buff so easily. yes there's narrow minded, but the same thing can be said for rhino's roar, but you don't see a narrow minded roar build.....imo, this is to counter the FIX in the calculations. for example, in an eidolon hunt, you'll need a range+strength chorma, so you'll also buff your team to do the dmg against the weakspot.....so narrow minded in that case is bad. since you're trading dmg (done by your team) for duration (which only benefits you) 

for elemental ward, tbh I don't really care....the crappy base range needs a straight buff if they really want it as a support and to be removed all together 

for effigy, totally agree with you. it need more work  

*cough* maybe they'll look deeper into him when his prime will come out this year *cough* 

[HRD654]

10 hours ago, Ocerkin said:

give her her overheat back if they want her to get up in enemies faces, she cant survive

 

as it is she wont be able to handle anything, i mean look at the stream they had a modded out ember that died in 4 minutes at MOT, are you kidding me? 4 minutes in you should be able to atleast manage yourself, good lord... she is not built for up close and personal, they stole her overheat to ensure she couldnt do that, they wanna shatter her range lets get a reworked overheat back in here then, lets make her actually useable

I have always thought it would be a great idea to build overheat (or something like it) into WoF and have it provide more damage reduction the longer the ability is toggled on. The catch is, the damage reduction would not start until AFTER you turn WoF off. In this way people would be incentivized to not use WoF until the end of time. They could also keep the planned changes. My idea was more along the lines of giving her invulnerability to go with her phoenix inspiration, but DE would probably not go for that.

Edited February 3, 2018 by HRD654

[Aeromancer]

1 hour ago, jiminatorx said:

This is the ember problem in a nutshell. See what happens when energy hits 0 and firequake turns off:

 

 

I'm pretty sure that was ramped up for demonstrative purposes.  Right...?

Edited February 3, 2018 by Aeromancer

[throwaway987654321]

5 hours ago, IDontKnowAName said:

Do you people even want to play the game? Or is it just the want to feel stupidly overpowered against everything? Is it wrong for DE to balance the game the way they want? What is the point of having so much content, if only a very limited set of gear is going to be used? Personally, I feel like this will be a good change for the game. Might make you "press 4 to win" players think about trying a different Warframe for once.

We want to play the game and have *fun* with it. Not do the exact same missions over a hundred times each month without any new content. This game is a hoard shooter, and hoard shooters aren't fun when you can't kill hoards of enemies. There's no "press 4 to win". Too many frames' abilities are useless or become useless after the first few levels because of the broken enemy-player scaling, so please don't ask for more of them to be made worthless.