The Temporary Future of Warframe Trials

[WolfTitan]

If DE staff engaged with WFRSB and fielded thoughts from daily/frequent raiders, they would have seen the most resilient communities of Warframe, ones that they should value and strive to keep at all cost because they are the ones providing sustained income for DE. These communities consist of the most dedicated, loyal players of Warframe, and by shuttering trials, DE has given them a middle finger.

This decision threatens communities upon which clans were built and where deep friendships were made. I expect much of them to leave Warframe if DE were to follow through. How do I know this? I have asked, and I have heard. I know that 80% of my daily raid group will leave the game because there would be nothing left for them to do. DE is so blinded by their push for PoE that they have lost sight of what players enjoy and what they do not. Players want less grind, not more of it. Eidolons can be killed as many times as a player wishes, and that is grind. Raids each give arcanes once per day, and that isn't grind.

I once again strongly urge DE to reconsider their potentially fatal decision here.

[(XBOX)DarkHart1]

On 2/7/2018 at 4:26 PM, [DE]Megan said:

temporarily put to rest, much like the Dark Sector Armistice

@[DE]Megan That's a pretty horrible example. The Dark Sectors have been removed to be reworked for over 2 years now & quickly approaching 3 years & still aren't back yet.

Is this the same time frame you all have in mind for raids?

Although the trials/raiding community is just a small percent of you guys playerbase, do the minority population have no voice or place in Warframe since outnumbered?

There isn't a viable 5-8 player co-op mission alternative in Warframe. Players will & are planning to search for that experience & content elsewhere.

Is conclave next? Why haven't lessons learned from the now defunct Amazing Eternals been applied to conclave?

Sincerely,

DH1 

[schilds]

If it's true that they need to remove raids to fix them, then I think this is basically an admission that DE's coding practices require improvement, that there are many entangled systems in their game and when they change one thing they break other stuff. If you think about it, that's often what happens. Every time they change one part of the game, a whole host of seemingly unrelated things break. That means just keeping part of the game in is not free (as most people seem to expect), even if they don't change that part, its upkeep is forced by changes elsewhere.

 

* Noticed someone already said this above, but I've already typed it so going to leave it in :-P.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, TheOldOne said:

Actually, you sound a lot like the players who turned me off playing raids. "Unacceptable and poor excuse"?  Who are you to judge me over how I choose to spend my free time, and with whom?

Not only did I find a lack of help, I found many raid players to be so abrasive that I didn't want to go back.  So before you start berating me for my choices, please consider that I am not required to do a single blessed thing in this game that I don't find interesting, pleasant or amusing.

While he does sound pretty rude I do believe that if you'd had the luck to run into the RSB early on when you tried the Raids you'd have a much different experience. They're a lot more chill and friendly about the whole thing and try to help a whole lot more than the random people you may find on Recruit chat. To be honest Recruit chat is just pretty bad in general. Lord forbid you ask for help with Eidolons, someone might shoot you. I feel like whatever experience you had tainted your opinion of Raids and that's a shame because they can be really silly, even if I don't do them, I've seen a lot of funny gimmick runs and been told stories too.

[TheOldOne]

10 minutes ago, Omega1084 said:

While he does sound pretty rude I do believe that if you'd had the luck to run into the RSB early on when you tried the Raids you'd have a much different experience. They're a lot more chill and friendly about the whole thing and try to help a whole lot more than the random people you may find on Recruit chat. To be honest Recruit chat is just pretty bad in general. Lord forbid you ask for help with Eidolons, someone might shoot you. I feel like whatever experience you had tainted your opinion of Raids and that's a shame because they can be really silly, even if I don't do them, I've seen a lot of funny gimmick runs and been told stories too.

I do believe that you're exactly right, in every bit of what you wrote. :)

The thing that I suspect, though I don't have more than a gut feeling to go on, is that with high prices for arcanes comes greed - at least in some minds.  And there's that whole thing about the love of money being the root of all evil...  But then I'm just a cantankerous old man who insists on enjoying the game he plays. :D

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, TheOldOne said:

I do believe that you're exactly right, in every bit of what you wrote. :)

The thing that I suspect, though I don't have more than a gut feeling to go on, is that with high prices for arcanes comes greed - at least in some minds.  And there's that whole thing about the love of money being the root of all evil...  But then I'm just a cantankerous old man who insists on enjoying the game he plays. :D

You may ant to give them a shot, while they're still around, with the RSB. I realise Arcanes are extremely expensive and it's a decent idea to move them to something more hmm.. "accessible" isn't right because Newbies run into Eidolons with no idea what to do and have to play 100 hours till War Within to even dent them.. anyway~
The Vets themselves, many of them at least, have voiced their opinion that they don't care about Arcanes so long as they got to keep running their raids. For a large portion of them, maybe the majority, it's the mission itself that they enjoy for the social and interactive aspects as opposed to the Arcanes, though I'm sure no one's complaining about those.

[TheOldOne]

1 minute ago, Omega1084 said:

You may ant to give them a shot, while they're still around, with the RSB. I realise Arcanes are extremely expensive and it's a decent idea to move them to something more hmm.. "accessible" isn't right because Newbies run into Eidolons with no idea what to do and have to play 100 hours till War Within to even dent them.. anyway~
The Vets themselves, many of them at least, have voiced their opinion that they don't care about Arcanes so long as they got to keep running their raids. For a large portion of them, maybe the majority, it's the mission itself that they enjoy for the social and interactive aspects as opposed to the Arcanes, though I'm sure no one's complaining about those.

I've been meaning to, actually - they sound like a good crew to run with, and completely unlike the raid players I've met before.  Might as well seize the day...

[Guest]

1 minute ago, TheOldOne said:

I've been meaning to, actually - they sound like a good crew to run with, and completely unlike the raid players I've met before.  Might as well seize the day...

Mhm, I do hope they manage to undo whatever damage the rude people you met before did. This is a valuable piece of content the Vets and Newbies alike are crying out in unison to stop from dying. More voices may help, but this is DE, so hope is low.

[phoenix1992]

Thanks for the 1 minute disclosure, during the stream.

[WolfTitan]

So from Devstream #106, trials will be going away because they said that trials and the arcane market are "rotting." They still have not defined "temporary" and leaves open the possibility that it will never return. What a response. What a shame.

 

[TheOldOne]

1 minute ago, Omega1084 said:

Mhm, I do hope they manage to undo whatever damage the rude people you met before did. This is a valuable piece of content the Vets and Newbies alike are crying out in unison to stop from dying. More voices may help, but this is DE, so hope is low.

It all depends on what DE's plan is.  The ICE Alliance broke Dark Sector Conflict - just before they self-destructed - by starting a 100% tax regime on the relays they seized.  It was a pity, because I thought that Rail Conflict was much better than Conclave; now if there had been the chance for a peasants' revolt back then, things might have been different.  I get the feeling that raids are relatively high-maintenance parts of the game, and the dev hours could go to better use in other things for most players.  That'd be another sad accident of history.  I wonder, though, what is slated to replace raids*?

* Exploring drifting, abandoned airships in Jupiter's atmosphere?  A man can dream...

[Aer0phys]

I think this is not a good time. They should add another good endgame mode BEFORE removing the Raids. But again, after these removals, a lot of people will expect them to work very VERY fast on new Raids. Because they are actually killing a part of the community.

[WolfTitan]

4 minutes ago, TheOldOne said:

I wonder, though, what is slated to replace raids*?

In the Devstream, they indicated that there is currently nothing in the plans to replace raids. The sentiment in the Devstream was just to shrug off and get away from this topic as fast as possible, because it's clear that discussing this in the Devstream made them uncomfortable: How would you define "temporary" for trials? "Iunno." What will replace it? "Iunno." "I'll just say that it's rotting away just like us." "Let's seg-way to another topic."

Thanks DE for making this clearer by spending a minute taking about it and not directly answering Rebecca's questions.

[phoenix1992]

4 minutes ago, TheOldOne said:

I wonder, though, what is slated to replace raids*?

 

The "Dark Sectors" are not meant to replace raids, they are just meant to replace raid mechanics.

If raid mechanics was using spin 2 win macro with atterax in order to kill level 26 enemies fast.

[Key]

13 minutes ago, WolfTitan said:

So from Devstream #106, trials will be going away because they said that trials and the arcane market are "rotting." They still have not defined "temporary" and leaves open the possibility that it will never return. What a response. What a shame.

 

I wonder what they call "a small part of the game" talking about people who do raids, how many we are? I saw some here talking about 15k, is that small?

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

2 minutes ago, WolfTitan said:

In the Devstream, they indicated that there is currently nothing in the plans to replace raids. The sentiment in the Devstream was just to shrug off and get away from this topic as fast as possible, because it's clear that discussing this in the Devstream made them uncomfortable: How would you define "temporary" for trials? "Iunno." What will replace it? "Iunno." "I'll just say that it's rotting away just like us." "Let's seg-way to another topic."

Thanks DE for making this clearer by spending a minute taking about it and not directly answering Rebecca's questions.

and Reb even said to some its permanent.  And scotts humming and hawing about their future shows a clear lack of thought or consideration for any future Trials.

 

[Licitaqua]

Just now, Key said:

I wonder what they call "a small part of the game" talking about people who do raids, how many we are? I saw some here talking about 15k, is that small?

the 15k people are refering to is only counting players a part of rsb server, thats ignoring the likely 100s of clans specifically geared to raiding communities. assuming half full clans averaging mounting and counting maybe 4k inactive players in rsb (not accurate but lets assume) i place it around 20+k members they are screwing over here

[ikkabotz]

50 minutes ago, Omega1084 said:

I'm upset that DE is pushing away long-time players who gave the game the life it no longer deserves. I don't play Raids, I'm not interested in them, but they're breaking promises and going back on their word. Even if we put away the Raid argument this is just anti-consumerism and dishonesty.

Yes, the inaccurate numbers they pulled out, loaded to support their arguments and reasoning and have people defend them, if you actually listened and did the Math it wouldn't add up, the sample size and comparisons are not fair or even at all. Of course people play Raids less, because they can't be played more, because they have a daily hard cap, 1 run daily of each of the 3 Raids. If the RSB was able to do more than 3 daily raids they'd be doing them a lot more but that's not possible and that's why the numbers are skewed that way. To add to that, DE never advertised or pushed for people to do the Trials or properly taught anyone anything about them unlike the Plains or every other mission, of course people won't play them if they don't know that they exist. If normal missions were that way the numbers would be far different. I'm starting to think you're actively dancing around the points I'm making.

Either way, you yourself said it, it's its own content cloud separated from the game, they're taking them away to work on them, it doesn't make any sense to do that though. It doesn't affect the majority of the players right? They haven't been bugfixing them as often because they're much stabler now right? That means that they're not that big a drain on resources now, that means that they can just focus on other things. So the only reason that remains is that they want to push the Plains even harder. With how accessible and fun RSB is making Raids the far more boring Eidolons wouldn't pull enough people, that's the play here, not a lack of resources or manpower. 

Exactly, I didn't play raids often but can recognize this is a shifty move by DE...again

[WolfTitan]

Just now, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

And scotts humming and hawing about their future shows a clear lack of thought or consideration for any future Trials.

 

That's a better way to put it. 

Scott: Let me keep shrugging and twitching uncomfortably in my seat as I try to avoid all of your questions because I don't have an answer for our players. Can we seg-way to Dark Sectors now?

[phoenix1992]

Just now, WolfTitan said:

That's a better way to put it. 

Scott: Let me keep shrugging and twitching uncomfortably in my seat as I try to avoid all of your questions because I don't have an answer for our players. Can we seg-way to Dark Sectors now?

To "Dark Sectors", not to THE Dark Sectors.
They don't even know if they want to keep the name.

[TheOldOne]

2 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

The "Dark Sectors" are not meant to replace raids, they are just meant to replace raid mechanics.
 

I think that DS actually pre-dates raids, and the big thing with raids when they started was the whole working things out under pressure.  The toxicity came later.

[HunterH]

And all the veteran player ir dead

[Key]

Well I guess that no matter how much we beeg for not doing this cleary all the players who love and enjoy the raids mean nothing for them.

[phoenix1992]

I am gonna say the same thing I said in the stream.

DE are not going Bungie, they are going EA - all the fluff and removing content from previous instances of the game. 

[TheOldOne]

2 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

I am gonna say the same thing I said in the stream.

DE are not going Bungie, they are going EA - all the fluff and removing content from previous instances of the game. 

Ouch, that's pretty harsh.