Why is everybody complaining about the Tigris Prime?

[(XBOX)Artakka]

First off, I would just like to say that this is all of my own personal opinion. Of course everybody is entitled to their own opinion and it's not my place to say what is fact and what's not. The thing I can't get past however, is why are so many people upset about how strong the Tigris prime is? I can understand how players would get upset about the fact that the Tigris prime is a pure upgrade over the sancti, but arguably requires more work to acquire. This is not an issue for me, as I'm not affiliated with New Loka, but I can see how this may be an issue for those who are. Regardless of which requires more work, the Tigris Prime is still not "easy" to acquire. I have only just recently become Mr13 and acquired the Tigris, and I'll tell you it took a hell of alot of grinding and using crappy mastery fodder. The Tigris prime is a weapon that requires hundreds of hours of gameplay and experience before this weapon can be assembled. There are those who bought it along with the prime access, but that day is far behind us, and now requires a grind worth noting. The sancti is unfortunately locked at Mr12, and in my personal opinion, should be lowered (or the Tigris prime increased) in terms of MR. The Tigris prime is op. Let's be honest, 100% status is godamn ridiculous on that thing. The Sancti is a fantastic shotgun, but not quite it's prime counterpart. I concur that instead of nerfing the hell out of the Tigris prime, why not simply increase its mastery rank requirement? I believe that 15 or 16 is a reasonable and warranted requirement, while leaving the sancti at 12 (potentially 11). The Tigris prime doesn't need a nerf, it just needs to be less accessible to the general population. This gun should require work and dedication, and should not be so close in level to the sancti. I hate the term "power creep" but its unfortunately evident here, as I can say for myself I will likely never chase after the sancti due to possessing the Tigris prime. However a simple fix is possible, with just increasing the MR requirement of the Tigris prime. Thanks for reading, and try not to show too much salt in the comments. That's the main reason i quit playing Destiny :p.

[(XBOX)Artakka]

Also, the Tigris prime has about a 24% increase in terms of base damage against the Sancti, it's not that much better, it's just the ridiculous status that propels it foward.

[Eljureo]

Now regular.and Sancti can be built for status aswell.

There must be about 10 other shotguns capable of status 100.

Besides it is a prime with high MR, it should be damn powerful.

[Ragingwasabi]

i rarely see people complaining about the tigris prime

the tigris p isnt even OP. you spend more time reloading than you do shooting. its not  a room clearer either.
ie single target, high damage weapon. nothing OP about that.

[Xion]

When a shotgun can outsnipe our snipers, you know that there's a problem somewhere.

I wouldn't say it's THAT overpowered, it's just when people test out its power, they test it in the most optimal conditions possible. That is, a single high lvl enemy, 3m away from the face and in a controlled environment. You'll hardly ever see that and you'll rarely ever need that much damage packed into a single burst like that.

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Xion

[(XBOX)Artakka]

Just now, Ragingwasabi said:

i rarely see people complaining about the tigris prime

the tigris p isnt even OP. you spend more time reloading than you do shooting. its not  a room clearer either.
ie single target, high damage weapon. nothing OP about that.

I read alot of posts with people complaining about it, it certainly isn't a room clearer you're right, but it does put level 150 enemies on their ass. There are certainly contenders that go against the Tigris, but this post was focused more on how the Tigris prime and the sancti are unbalanced in terms of the relation to eachother.

[o.0-]

So the suggested solution to a perceived problem is raising the MR requirement on the Prime? As the OP is a big chunk of text I just want to make sure I'm understanding what I'm reading.

Also, the syndicate primaries are not likely to see an MR reduction, and I'm curious if you've had a chance to use a weapon with a syndicate AoE proc?

[Thrymm]

Honestly, I don't even particularly like the thing.

Yeah, it'd kill a level 200 enemy in one shot, sure.  Its damage potential is so high that you can throw a full punch through on it and blow a hole in everything directly in front of you.

But it's clunky to use, overkill for the vast majority of content without a way to make it less clunky, and has a very small spread so almost everything else will clear out groups more quickly---including many sniper rifles.  The reload is slow for the magazine size, and it isn't all that great from point blank range because it has a tendency to miss without a couple feet to line it up. 

Unless a person actually likes single, slowish shots to kill enemies on a per unit basis(and don't get me wrong, if I need that in slash brand I'll still use it), I'm not even sure why they'd bother to equip this.  Fapping to simulacrum numbers isn't how you mow down five hundred grineer to keep life support rolling.

 

[Sasquatchias]

1 hour ago, Thrymm said:

Honestly, I don't even particularly like the thing.

Yeah, it'd kill a level 200 enemy in one shot, sure.  Its damage potential is so high that you can throw a full punch through on it and blow a hole in everything directly in front of you.

But it's clunky to use, overkill for the vast majority of content without a way to make it less clunky, and has a very small spread so almost everything else will clear out groups more quickly---including many sniper rifles.  The reload is slow for the magazine size, and it isn't all that great from point blank range because it has a tendency to miss without a couple feet to line it up. 

Unless a person actually likes single, slowish shots to kill enemies on a per unit basis(and don't get me wrong, if I need that in slash brand I'll still use it), I'm not even sure why they'd bother to equip this.  Fapping to simulacrum numbers isn't how you mow down five hundred grineer to keep life support rolling.

 

Yeah honestly I was pretty disappointed with the Tigris and it's variants because they felt awful to actually fire.

Like one of the biggest reasons it feels so awful to me is how fast each shot goes, with a fairly weak-sounding / visually unimpressive burst for each one whereas it should be the opposite with a bit of a delay between firing each barrel but each blast just outright shredding a mob of enemies with it's power.

[(XBOX)Artakka]

2 hours ago, SPARTAN-187.Thanatos said:

So the suggested solution to a perceived problem is raising the MR requirement on the Prime? As the OP is a big chunk of text I just want to make sure I'm understanding what I'm reading.

Also, the syndicate primaries are not likely to see an MR reduction, and I'm curious if you've had a chance to use a weapon with a syndicate AoE proc?

I'd prefer to not see either buffed or nerfed, so yes, based on what I've read among others posts about how it's annoying that the Tigris prime and sancti are so close in mastery, that it's pointless to rank up with new loka (I'm not saying it's pointless, just quoting what I've read), I believe that simply increasing the mastery rank of the Tigris Prime would solve this issue, and put a gap between two weapons that aren't equals.

[(PSN)Croewe]

I find I tend to use the Sancti Tigris more than the Primed version. As mentioned the prime is overkill and I'm a sucker for the heal it puts out. If you want a similar damage build for the Sancti go for a crit, hunter munitions build. I don't know how the build differs now on PC after the updates but this has served me well into the old sortie 3 defense/survival before they reduced how long you needed to be there for.

Edited February 16, 2018 by (PS4)Chris_Robet

[o.0-]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Young Boy HT said:

I'd prefer to not see either buffed or nerfed, so yes, based on what I've read among others posts about how it's annoying that the Tigris prime and sancti are so close in mastery, that it's pointless to rank up with new loka (I'm not saying it's pointless, just quoting what I've read), I believe that simply increasing the mastery rank of the Tigris Prime would solve this issue, and put a gap between two weapons that aren't equals.

Uh, ok? Still fuzzy. And I don't want to detract from a productive discussion, as the Tigris family of shotguns does hold a certain mystique about them.

And so, I have both and have continued to use them, and even recently gained a Tigris riven from Sorties that needs rolls, so that's another detail to factor in my personal bias. 

Also, according to my Profile, my top Primary is the Veykor Hek, followed by the Sancti Tigris. I can take a screen cap if necessary, just trying to poorly say that I'm not clear on how such MR adjustments bring positive changes, like from MR 12 to MR13 hunting relics (and/or going straight to trade purgatory) in a meaningful-enough way between the two double-barreled punt guns.

And I lovingly say how my sawed off doubled-barreled punt gun is a fun mechanic to have within the context of other fine weapons; and here's one fun video where I could share how there are doubled barreled guns that do have a capability to tell the difference between a fired and unfired shell to modify the reload process and animation with an minor yet significant enough difference in holding onto an un-fired round

 

[(XBOX)Artakka]

3 minutes ago, SPARTAN-187.Thanatos said:

Uh, ok? Still fuzzy. And I don't want to detract from a productive discussion, as the Tigris family of shotguns does hold a certain mystique about them.

And so, I have both and have continued to use them, and even recently gained a Tigris riven from Sorties that needs rolls, so that's another detail to factor in my personal bias. 

Also, according to my Profile, my top Primary is the Veykor Hek, followed by the Sancti Tigris. I can take a screen cap if necessary, just trying to poorly say that I'm not clear on how such MR adjustments bring positive changes, like from MR 12 to MR13 hunting relics (and/or going straight to trade purgatory) in a meaningful-enough way between the two double-barreled punt guns.

And I lovingly say how my sawed off doubled-barreled punt gun is a fun mechanic to have within the context of other fine weapons; and here's one fun video where I could share how there are doubled barreled guns that do have a capability to tell the difference between a fired and unfired shell to modify the reload process and animation with an minor yet significant enough difference in holding onto an un-fired round

 

It was just a simple idea, me giving a potential solution to an issue that I've seen come up quite a few times. My thought process behind the situation is, if players don't want to see any decrease in mastery rank requirement for the sancti, but yet dislike how close in mastery rank the two shotguns are, because those who haven't ranked up with new loka are going to see the sancti as pointless in grinding for, then the only solution I can think of is increasing the mastery rank requirement of the Tigris, as to further separate the two shotguns and their accessibility. There are of course other possibilities and solutions, but this the only one I can think of without changing the stats of either weapon or lowering the sanctis MR requirement.

[o.0-]

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Young Boy HT said:

It was just a simple idea, me giving a potential solution to an issue that I've seen come up quite a few times. My thought process behind the situation is, if players don't want to see any decrease in mastery rank requirement for the sancti, but yet dislike how close in mastery rank the two shotguns are, because those who haven't ranked up with new loka are going to see the sancti as pointless in grinding for, then the only solution I can think of is increasing the mastery rank requirement of the Tigris, as to further separate the two shotguns and their accessibility. There are of course other possibilities and solutions, but this the only one I can think of without changing the stats of either weapon or lowering the sanctis MR requirement.

Want to state upfront, thank you for responding to my commentary.

As I've thought about the Tigris family from my own experience and how newer players would thus evaluate the weapons, as I stated earlier is worthy of discussing to see how players feel about these weapons.

And as I've gone about learning more on how these weapons can be made to function, I've learned that some real-world ejectors can discriminate between spent and un-fired rounds, where in Warframe could plausibly be an adjustment in mechanics or a brand new weapon featuring such mechanics if firing and reloading (could be as simple as  a modified Strun reload to something more exotic).

In summary Mastery Rank is a tool available as Warframe evolves, and I hope to also provide ideas for either future weapons and/or existing weapon mechanics that can be interesting and help keep a nice diversity in what weaponry we take to beat-up on out enemy.

And so shotguns in general, there is this:

 

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

9 hours ago, Xion said:

When a shotgun can outsnipe our snipers, you know that there's a problem somewhere.

I wouldn't say it's THAT overpowered, it's just when people test out its power, they test it in the most optimal conditions possible. That is, a single high lvl enemy, 3m away from the face and in a controlled environment. You'll hardly ever see that and you'll rarely ever need that much damage packed into a single burst like that.

 

I’ll be honest, back when Chroma had the old Vex Armor calculations I tried using the Tigris Prime against Sortie 3 Raptors and haven’t even taken a portion of their health off with a single pull of the trigger. I wasn’t one-shotting them either with a +200% Power Strength build. I stripped their armor, sure, but nowhere did my damage had any effect on their health that would classify as out-sniping a faraway target compared to any other gun. Shotguns have damage fall-off, the Tigris family is no different. Hell, I still remember back in the day when the Hek had no damage fall-off and had the smallest cone of pellet shots of all guns in the game (which was perfect for sniping) and that was patched.

I’m very bewildered why people can claim that the Tigris family of guns, even the Tigris Prime, can outsnipe other guns due to their damage potential or guaranteed status output. The latter is a valid claim, but that’s all it did. It did not one, two, or even three-tap faraway targets in which any other gun, especially snipers, would have been more appropriate.

Edited February 16, 2018 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[Sloan441]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

I’m very bewildered why people can claim that the Tigris family of guns, even the Tigris Prime, can outsnipe other guns due to their damage potential or guaranteed status output. 

People claim a lot of things. A lot of it has no firm attachment to reality. 

The TigrisP has a fairly good reach for a shotgun since its base damage is so high it can still kill with a few hits at fairly extended ranges. However, if you're fighting lvl100 enemies, you won't be killing much of anything at those same ranges. It's still a sledgehammer up close, but it's no sniper. 

[Peter]

Tigris is the best sniper in the game, or shotgun... or both?

Jokes apart, Tigris have the best burst in the game, the only issue of this monster is the reload... It would be nice if you could have 4 shots per magazine.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Zanakeph

[Lord_Yawgmoth]

projectile flightspeed solves a bit of the fall off problem these guns have but it will use up a mod slot which could have potentially filled with dmg

where i like to use the tigris prime is the index because the weapon can kill the enemy even with a big point difference 

it doesnt feel good to use vs lined crowds though

[Guest]

Please, please, put seeking fury on it. No regrets once you do so.

It might be less overkill, but at least it is more useful against conga lines.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

Who is this "everybody"?

 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Everybody? Like never heard a single complaint till this thread.

[Soulexploder999]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb (Xbox One)Young Boy HT:

First off, I would just like to say that this is all of my own personal opinion. Of course everybody is entitled to their own opinion and it's not my place to say what is fact and what's not. The thing I can't get past however, is why are so many people upset about how strong the Tigris prime is? I can understand how players would get upset about the fact that the Tigris prime is a pure upgrade over the sancti, but arguably requires more work to acquire. This is not an issue for me, as I'm not affiliated with New Loka, but I can see how this may be an issue for those who are. Regardless of which requires more work, the Tigris Prime is still not "easy" to acquire. I have only just recently become Mr13 and acquired the Tigris, and I'll tell you it took a hell of alot of grinding and using crappy mastery fodder. The Tigris prime is a weapon that requires hundreds of hours of gameplay and experience before this weapon can be assembled. There are those who bought it along with the prime access, but that day is far behind us, and now requires a grind worth noting. The sancti is unfortunately locked at Mr12, and in my personal opinion, should be lowered (or the Tigris prime increased) in terms of MR. The Tigris prime is op. Let's be honest, 100% status is godamn ridiculous on that thing. The Sancti is a fantastic shotgun, but not quite it's prime counterpart. I concur that instead of nerfing the hell out of the Tigris prime, why not simply increase its mastery rank requirement? I believe that 15 or 16 is a reasonable and warranted requirement, while leaving the sancti at 12 (potentially 11). The Tigris prime doesn't need a nerf, it just needs to be less accessible to the general population. This gun should require work and dedication, and should not be so close in level to the sancti. I hate the term "power creep" but its unfortunately evident here, as I can say for myself I will likely never chase after the sancti due to possessing the Tigris prime. However a simple fix is possible, with just increasing the MR requirement of the Tigris prime. Thanks for reading, and try not to show too much salt in the comments. That's the main reason i quit playing Destiny :p.

Yeah? Try to use the Tigris Prime in a low level mission and you will notice how slow you're with it. The Tigris Prime is pretty much jyst for high level missions. Punch trough doesn't help it and you shouldn't look just at the damage numbers.Because at the end you will be doing less damage than someone who has an Ignis wraith. And low level mission are what you mostly play in this game. The sancti version is even better than the prime. The syndicate proc makes it better for low level mission and gives healing and the sancti makes just slightly less damage. 

[NinjaZeku]

17 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Everybody? Like never heard a single complaint till this thread.

This.

I've seen Tigris Prime being compared to other weapons plenty of times,
but that was more to show how those other weapons could use a buff or twenty,
I honestly can't remember anyone demanding a TP nerf.

*shrug*

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

I tried the Tigris Prime with yesterday’s Sortie 3 Lephantis Assassination with Enemy Elemental Enhancement toward Blast damage. People are claiming that this shotgun is a sniper, so I used a high Power Strength Jetstream Zephyr (max Blind Rage + Transient Fortutude) to boost the projectile speed up so that there won’t be any damage fall-off.

First shot on the mini-boss section for Lephantis: 21 on yellow crit, 1-2 digit white numbers. 

Sortie 3 Lephantis, imho, is a good baseline for high level content, or a good representation on how some guns perform with it. Tigris Prime was pretty pitiful against Lephantis, imho, and Zephyr didn’t help with mitigating its damage fall-off.

[(XBOX)Artakka]

6 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

This.

I've seen Tigris Prime being compared to other weapons plenty of times,
but that was more to show how those other weapons could use a buff or twenty,
I honestly can't remember anyone demanding a TP nerf.

*shrug*

I've seen it come up recently among the forums, while I was digging for the posts you mentioned above, as well as my clanmates (we are a huge clan) have been complaining about it as well, everybody was a poor choice of wording, but you know what I mean.