Votekick AFK Leeches - Solution for abusing

[DreisterDino]

Hey guys,

 

I've seen that there are already some threads requesting a vote kick function ingame, and i have always read that it will be abused.

And i ofc agree that nobody wants a system where people can get kicked because they use a frame the others dont like or stuff like that.

But, imo afk-leeches are a big problem sometimes and since the afk timer can be bypassed easily by a makro, we have to find a solution.

 

To start off, just 2 scenarios where leeching is really annoying:

- Bountys: Hostage spawns at afk person and will not move, i had this problem in a group in stage 4, only thing we could do was abort the mission without getting the rewards.

- Kuva: Afk-leeches get lots of kuva for doing nothing and are therefore able to reroll rivens alot and then sell it for high amount of Plat with no effort put into it..thats fair right?

 

Now, what can we do to prevent a kick feature being abused?

- first, i only want a feature to kick afk players, nothing else.

- all 3 people have to vote yes

-when all 3 people voted yes, give the person who is accused for being afk a chance to prove he is not afk: Popup a window for 5 to 10 seconds on which he has to click manually

that way people wont get kicked just because they use a frame the others dont like

- on addition, give us a timelimit on how often we can start a votekick, maybe once every hour. If the votekick is succesful, the timer gets a reset instantly, if the votekick fails you have to wait.

 

I think with this system there is no real chance of abusing it. Also, since DE is changing frames lately to prevent afk farming, i think they should have at least some interest in preventing those methods. You might be right when you say "just go solo" "just play with your clan", but thats not a solution, its closing your eyes and restricting your own game experience because there are people like that. You might be right when you ask "why do you even care, just ignore those players", but i think when it gets to rewards that can get you a lot of plat and so on, it should be as fair as it can get with all the RNG. Why should someone who leeches himself through kuva missions the whole day be able to reroll rivens until he gets stupid amounts of plat for that with no effort when a person who really plays like 6 syphons to roll a riven once to get bad stats again?

 

BTW, it might sound like that, but i dont have problems with getting plat, acutally at the moment i dont even know what to buy next with the plat i have, but i think this is really unfair.

Let me know if you see any flaws with this system or what you would add. Imo this system is better then a report system because DE does not need to check all the reports.

And besides, if you play a little, you dont want to take screenshots, make videos, start forum threads and wait weeks until something eventually will happen.

 

Greetz

[Lewdcifer]

4 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

give the person who is accused for being afk a chance to prove he is not afk

Back when I played Maplestory, auto macro hogging map with afk farm is a really big problem. One of the server gave you as another player an option to prompt a captcha-like window popup in front of the other player for them to complete in order to prove they're not afk farming. And it worked.

+1. I think there are different aspects to think about in a proposed change, but this one I already have witnessed a solid system that WORKED. So yeah.

[DonGheddo]

Terrible ideea, such a system can be abused really bad ^^ 

[DreisterDino]

Can you also say how it will be abused?

[[DE]Grzegorz]

11 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

- first, i only want a feature to kick afk players, nothing else.

It's not uncommon to be marked AFK despite actively playing the game, Mesa comes to mind just like certain strategies that involve Banshee or Trinity. First it would be needed to completely redefine what being AFK means in the scope of the game, because it might as well be a coinflip for any player that hasn't moved more than 5 meters within the last minute.

 

You know what you'll get with the current implementation? People using macros to run in circles so they don't get flagged while they get all the mission rewards.

[polarity]

9 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

Popup a window for 5 to 10 seconds on which he has to click manually

That the AFKers bot software can detect and click for them.

[DreisterDino]

Would propose to read everything i have written^^

Zitat

-when all 3 people voted yes, give the person who is accused for being afk a chance to prove he is not afk: Popup a window for 5 to 10 seconds on which he has to click manually

That way, no one will get kicked because he is using Mesa, he can just quickly click on the popup and he is done

and Makros wont help because at least i think that it will be hard to write a macro that clicks on a popup for you, running in circles wont help

 

Zitat

That the AFKers bot software can detect and click for them.

If its really that easy (i dont know) put in a captcha like the first responder said

Edited February 22, 2018 by DreisterDino

[Ferah_Frithu]

Why always go after the people? Far too much hassle for something that could be fixed in a more elegant manner.

Using your scenarios as an example: Scenario 1 - Just make it so the hostage follows the person closest to the extraction point. Scenario 2 - As far as I know, actual AFK players get nothing at the end, due to inactivity. People who circumvent that by moving every now and then get nothing either, from what I read in some threads. You actually have to land at least a few kills to be considered "active".

You see, it's far more complicated and stressful to develop measures that get rid of AFK players. It's a lot better (imo) to fix the gameplay in a way that you can't leech, as with Scenario 1.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

5 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

That way, no one will get kicked because he is using Mesa, he can just quickly click on the popup and he is done

Which does in no way resolve the issue of an active player getting marked AFK.

5 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

and Makros wont help because at least i think that it will be hard to write a macro that clicks on a popup for you, running in circles wont help

I could write you a triggerbot in AHK within 10 lines of text, placing the window in random position of the screen wouldn't work either nor would QTEs because at that point, you are creating mechanics that would actively spite players wrongly marked as AFK and would result in plenty of falsepositives due to unnecessary skillcheck or mission failures because now Mesa cannot shoot because the player needs to press 5 keys in sequence while the popup floats over the screen.

 

Resource and mod drops from enemies are an anti-afk on their own as anything to alleviate that would fall under botting  (which on itself is illegal in this game), design the game to be hard to AFK for benefits instead of tacking on mechanics that hardly get their job done while being annoying to general populace.

Edited February 22, 2018 by JuicyButthurt

[xBelgabor]

I fully agree, I rather have the occasinal Leech now and then than a system that doesn't work or is abusable. Also as long as the game has issues for a lot of people that could make them appear AFK I would consider it unfair.

vor 19 Minuten schrieb DreisterDino:

- Bountys: Hostage spawns at afk person and will not move, i had this problem in a group in stage 4, only thing we could do was abort the mission without getting the rewards.

- Kuva: Afk-leeches get lots of kuva for doing nothing and are therefore able to reroll rivens alot and then sell it for high amount of Plat with no effort put into it..thats fair right?

 

The bounty thing is imo a bug that plagues all hostage/rescue type missions in the game. The hosatge should follow someone predictable, aka the one who frees them. Especially not someone who is farther away from it that anyone else.

The Kuva thing I personally don't really care about since it doesn't affect my ability to succeed the mission at all and all ideas on a solution I have might unfairly punish people who do nothing wrong or are easily circumvented by a leech.

[DreisterDino]

vor 1 Minute schrieb JuicyButthurt:

Which does in no way resolve the issue of an active player getting marked AFK.

I could write you a triggerbot in AHK within 10 lines of text, placing the window in random position of the screen wouldn't work either nor would QTEs because at that point, you are creating mechanics that would actively spite players wrongly marked as AFK and would result in plenty of falsepositives due to unnecessary skillcheck or mission failures because now Mesa cannot shoot because the player needs to press 5 keys in sequence while the popup floats over the screen.

That was why i added a timelimit to start votekicks, so people dont spam it whenever something doesnt goes the way they like to.

Hell, make the timelimit 8 hours instead of one, might be still fine as long the timer resets for succesful votes.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

3 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

That was why i added a timelimit to start votekicks, so people dont spam it whenever something doesnt goes the way they like to.

Hell, make the timelimit 8 hours instead of one, might be still fine as long the timer resets for succesful votes.

Which is still irrelevant because an actively playing player has been marked as AFK in the first place and are now subject to all kind of annoyances of anti-afk system.

Maybe instead of penalizing people who may or may not be AFK start to incentivise active players?

Edited February 22, 2018 by JuicyButthurt

[DreisterDino]

Why would someone mark a Mesa that is actively playing as afk?

And do you really think all other players would vote yes (which is the requirement for all further actions to happen)?

I'll repeat myself: As long as not all players have voted yes, nothing will happen to the player accused of being afk.

How often will that happen? Do you really have no faith in the playersbase and think everyone is gonna start trolling everyone?

Edited February 22, 2018 by DreisterDino

[Sajochi]

 How to deal with afks and leechers:

1. Block the bugger

2. Take a screenshot using F6 showing where they are to send to support. 

3. Quit mission and squad up with the cool people.  Send screenshot to support after mission. 

Takes all of a few little clicks. Blocking them means you're no longer gonna see them, unless they somehow join to a third party or you're not the host. The screenshot taken also has meta data that can be tracked easily by support to prove of the offending player is actually doing the things you claim. 

Your system can still be abused. It has a very obvious flaw.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

Just now, DreisterDino said:

Why would someone mark a Mesa that is actively playing as afk?

Because the whole system fundamentally relies on the game guessing who's playing the game?

Just now, DreisterDino said:

And do you really think all other players would vote yes (which is the requirement for all further actions to happen)?

People do all kinds of dumb stuff out of spite, why would you want to give these people a mechanic to abuse and let them decide who has just wasted few minutes of their time.

Just now, DreisterDino said:

How often will that happen?

Have you ever played Mesa?

Just now, DreisterDino said:

Do you really have no faith in the playersbase and think everyone is gonna start trolling everyone?

Do you keep your passwords in plain text somewhere because you believe people won't do anything to harm you? It will take only a few people to make the system an annoyance and a threat to players instead of a solution to afk and leeching.

[chaotea]

Rather than a vote to kick, would a automatic reporting feature be better to combat repeat offenders? Have an option to report for AFK, and if that person gets too many, the get lower priority matchmaking forcing them to play with other afk'ers until they complete a number of matches. Alternatively, as a punishment they get their AFK timers shrunk drastically and the rewards penalization strengthened.

 

Of course to prevent abuse of this system, people should get a limited amount of report tickets. Should action be taken against a reported individual, you get your tickets back.

Edited February 22, 2018 by chaotea

[[DE]Grzegorz]

Just now, chaotea said:

Rather than a vote to kick, would a automatic reporting feature be better to combat repeat offenders? Have an option to report for AFK, and if that person gets too many, the get lower priority matchmaking forcing them to play with other afk'ers until they complete a number of matches. Alternatively, as a punishment they get their AFK timers shrunk drastically and the rewards penalization strengthened.

DE hadn't had enough storage to keep riven storage free but you believe they'll keep gameplay profile of every player out there?

[Kuvakei]

I'd rather see other changes in the game mechanics that don't reward afk/leeching behaviour, such as not having additional rewards from fishing, mining and resource caches on Tier 5 bounties.

 

I've played other games with similar vote/kicking/Troll behaviour such as Payday or EVE online and I really don't want to see a repeat of the abuse witnessed. I don't trust the playerbase to be anything other than malicious if trolling becomes possible.This is why several frame mechanics have and are being changed.

[chaotea]

5 minutes ago, JuicyButthurt said:

DE hadn't had enough storage to keep riven storage free but you believe they'll keep gameplay profile of every player out there?

They do anyway. They track things like stalkers, ect.

And its a very different type of storage. Rivens are massive data piles.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

Just now, chaotea said:

They do anyway. They track things like stalkers, ect.

And its a very different type of storage. Rivens are massive data piles.

There's a difference between a single bit to mark whether a player is marked by any of 3 assassins and keeping sum of their whole playtime history.

[kgabor]

I would just like the matchmaker to be remade so that whoever i ignored i can never be matched with again ever (and before anyone says, it obviously doesn't work like that currently, i get matched occasionally with people i blocked ages ago-on a side note, most of those are still annoying and i won't ever regret blocking them, some of those i actually noticed only because i wanted to put them on ignore again), i would never encounter afk. leechers more than once that way since every time someone is leeching i leave the squad and put the leecher on ignore.

Or maybe just add an option to host all the time and set your matchmaking preferences including sorting out ignored. (and maybe fix solo mission spawn rates so that they would be actually playable and not a waste of time)

Simple enough and a permanent fix not something like the person gets a one week ban or nothing at all or whatever most online games use as "punishment", they would just be removed from my matchmaker and they wouldn't be a problem for anyone using the ignore list properly.

[polarity]

I'll leave the simple fact that DE gave every player the ability to place another 1200 ship cosmetics when they added personal quarters, as evidence that they are being far from honest when they talk about storage capacity in relation to things like rivens and loadouts.

[Dama73]

I've been vocal about my being against a votekick for warframe in the past, mostly due to past experiences in games where people will kick another player for some pretty petty reasons, all the time you would see arguments for it, being there to punish leechers or griefers, but then you get players who would abuse that system in order to kick someone from a game for no reason other than it amuses them to do so.

 

But I will freely admit whenever I see a player go afk for 99% of a final sortie mission and then only start moving around in the last minute or so, I have never wanted the option to kick someone out of a game so badly.

 

But despite that I do maintain my stance on being against a votekick, purely on the grounds that I know damn well it will be abused.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Nova73

[Bl4zko]

Votekick, reminds me when I'm playing GTA:Online, people votekick for reasons like not liking when you kill them or they just hate your guts.
Same in Warframe, I could see for example many salty players trying to votekick other players for bringing warframes they dislike into missions.

Big No.
Simple solution is to just use recruiting chat to avoid this and later report the player with evidence of him leeching the mission.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Bl4zko

[Sziklamester]

It won't work. Imagine a scenario, where you are the only player who plays the game and the others afking. How would you kick those if you need 3 votes atleast? Also the reporting not a solution because you can report accidentaly peoples whom just afk for 1 min max or half a sec and was busy to call someone. There is a lot of ways how this system could be abusable and I don't want to spend my time to watch my back against the 3 other player which who will kick or report me for something, what I didn't do?

The matchmaking or auto matchmaker would be a better idea to put you into a different instance where there active players. A timer need to built in and if the players still afk then you can push the timer and after that you can jump into a different instance. Still the implementation is difficult at least sounds difficult, but the other options are not really useful. Leaving is a solution but that is most likely a bandaid. The best if you choose a dedicated group or friends/clanies to do certain missions. I know it is hard because the recruit chat cancerous and many peoples have ghost clans and often plays alone and those peoples cannot find normal groups so they go instead to public groups. It is massively matchmaking and detection problem.