Does anyone actuality enjoy beam weapons right now?

[Buzkyl]

16 hours ago, Ketec said:

The ramp up time + reset puts them int o a  trash tier category compared to  most other weapons 

I want you to actually go and test this out and actually come with hard evidence than your knee jerk reaction to a nerf.

[(PSN)GrottanGo]

I'm sad for the loss of native punchthrough in the ignis family. was my go to weapon for medallions/ayatan farming... now a punch mod is mandatory, pfff

[Racter]

I think this thread is split between people who got to play them after they first got buffed and people who only played them after the hot fix nerfed them. Most of the beam related feedback threads I've looked at have been like this as well.

 

For anyone who missed the one day they were great, they were all (as a class) roughly 2x as good as they are right now. While they're still mostly better now than they were a week ago, having played for that day (and of course wasting about 10 forma and ~40k Kuva into them and their rivens for their new stats) I honestly have no desire to use them post hot fix. Substantially less fun and effective.

 

Having the ramp up mechanic take even longer and affect each enemy individually just sucks. While the Amprex (because let's be honest, it was only the Amprex this was really an issue with) did far too much damage, the rest of them actually felt like they were in a good place. Instead of just numerically kneecapping the Amprex, they changed the mechanics to make them all less fun and effective, and more than a few of them didn't need it. This is basically the Synoid weapons all over again.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Racter

[ikkabotz]

20 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Nice try exaggerating in order to make a point. Of course I enjoy them now. Especially the Phage and Embolist, which have so much damage potential if you bring mobs close together it's not even funny. If you classify weapons only into tiers of "top of the meta" and "everything else is useless", that's nobody's problem but your own. The ramp up creates a window for other non beam weapon types to shine if your tap damage isn't enough and you're too impatient/your gun too inefficient to keep firing.

 

Wow, another Nydus player because Nydus. What was the point of changing Tonkor if we can do stuff like this? 

I think the issue with stuff like changes to beam weapons is it sends a conflicting message out to the playerbase. Particularly if certain elements of the game are stripped of effectiveness and a more recent change might show the exact opposite approach. Example for me was the Bow weapon that explodes things, that's a pretty sick weapon. .but why did we ever change Tonkor if there's another weapon set that basically does what the tonkor did? 

Cheese is the name of the game, so why strip a fan favorite of it's ability to cheese? I actually would be happy with far less cheese, but that is obviously not the direction the game is crafted for the time being. In other words I'd like to see more emphasis on an area in the game to apply the powerful weapons and loadouts before it all melts away.

Edited February 24, 2018 by komoriblues

[ikkabotz]

Double post

Edited February 24, 2018 by komoriblues

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, (PS4)GrottanGo said:

I'm sad for the loss of native punchthrough in the ignis family. was my go to weapon for medallions/ayatan farming... now a punch mod is mandatory, pfff

Uhm... why? If you are Ayatan and medallion farming you will enter the rooms either way most likely so the "object/wall" punch through is pointless. The weapon still has 100% punch through vs enemies, just not objects, walls and doors anymore.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, komoriblues said:

Example for me was the Bow weapon that explodes things, that's a pretty sick weapon. .but why did we ever change Tonkor if there's another weapon set that basically does what the tonkor did? 

To be legit about it, the Lenz does blow you up if you stay in its blast radius.

DE shouldn't have nerfed the Tonkor crit chance or damage output, just make self damage normal.

[(PSN)xxBeard--blackxx]

Yeah I enjoy beams quite a bit- maybe in part for the aesthetic, but nonetheless, Convectrix and Atamos are destroying the competition. I dig it.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

New Beam Weapon Mod:

Accelerated Ramp-Up

...or do fire rate mods perform this function?  (Console Tenno)

 

[White_Matter]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

New Beam Weapon Mod:

Accelerated Ramp-Up

...or do fire rate mods perform this function?  (Console Tenno)

 

Thats a good question. 

Can that 1 second ramp up time modified by attack rate mods ? 

[ikkabotz]

28 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

To be legit about it, the Lenz does blow you up if you stay in its blast radius.

DE shouldn't have nerfed the Tonkor crit chance or damage output, just make self damage normal.

I know it does have blast too, and thought that would come into argument. .but you just shoot at further distance for a similar result which to me doesn't really factor in much personally but that is true

[(PSN)Silverback73]

36 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

Thats a good question. 

Can that 1 second ramp up time modified by attack rate mods ? 

I'm putting you in charge of testing.

I'd like your report in this thread by morning.

[Nesodos]

imo it feels like on the one hand every "beam" weapon that affects more than one target got a buff because they can stack the ramp up on a crowd of enemies at once but on the other hand all the single target/single beam weapons are just trash compared to non beam weapons that can take on groups of enemies much easier

one might say "then use the single target weapons to shred the stronger enemies", but why? the multi target weapons deal just as much damage on single targets and are more useful overall

sadly guns like glaxion are still utterly useless even with good rivens

[Cloud]

The only thing flux rifle is good at is killing my will to play.

[KotoKuraken]

Considering the Amprex, Ignis Wraith, Cycron, and Synoid Gammacor all kill a lvl 150 Corrupted Bombard in less than 50 "shots",

I'd say the OP probably didn't test the weapons before making this post

Edited February 24, 2018 by KotoKuraken

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

В 23.02.2018 в 23:20, Ketec сказал:

The ramp up time + reset puts them int o a  trash tier category compared to  most other weapons where you can get full damage every shot on every enemy  regardless if you miss or not.
You run across hallways/plains, shoot a target, move on - that's the style of gameplay warframe has - not stop, aim, shoot, wait, move on.

Lmao you should try Quanta Vandal after the buff.

Kills 3 lvl 145 corrupted HG in 1 mag.

Just avoid putting fire rate mods on beam weapons now because you will waste ammo due to the fixed damage ramp up time.

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

5 часов назад, White_Matter сказал:

Thats a good question. 

Can that 1 second ramp up time modified by attack rate mods ? 

No. They just waste ammo during the ramp up period.

[Khift]

49 minutes ago, KotoKuraken said:

Considering the Amprex, Ignis Wraith, Cycron, and Synoid Gammacor all kill a lvl 150 Corrupted Bombard in less than 50 "shots",

I'd say the OP probably didn't test the weapons before making this post

The only person who hasn't tested anything is yourself. The per-enemy ramp up nerf has dropped the whole weapon set back to pretty much straight garbage tier in actual gameplay. Yes, for enemies that live long enough for the beam to ramp up they have good kill times - but that doesn't describe actual gameplay at all. What makes matters even worse is that if your cursor wanders off target for even an instant, now you need to ramp back up again.

Ramp up on weapon fire makes sense and was balanced. Ramp up per enemy does not make any sense, and isn't balanced.

[KotoKuraken]

5 minutes ago, Khift said:

The only person who hasn't tested anything is yourself. The per-enemy ramp up nerf has dropped the whole weapon set back to pretty much straight garbage tier in actual gameplay. Yes, for enemies that live long enough for the beam to ramp up they have good kill times - but that doesn't describe actual gameplay at all. What makes matters even worse is that if your cursor wanders off target for even an instant, now you need to ramp back up again.

Ramp up on weapon fire makes sense and was balanced. Ramp up per enemy does not make any sense, and isn't balanced.

In the Simulacrum, it handled very well, just as I stated before. That was no fluke.

After that, I took some beam weapons out into actual missions. I took the Cycron into the sortie today, and it killed literally everything like it was nothing. The Ignis Wraith also performed remarkably well against Eximus units. Don't even get me started on Amprex, that thing is a monster.

Maybe you should actually try out the beam weapons. There's a whole lot of us telling you it's good, and there's plenty of proof that they are. Seriously, go pick up a beam weapon, level it up, potato it, and give it a whirl. It won't hurt and you might actually like it, instead of theorizing how they might perform.

 

[Khift]

1 minute ago, KotoKuraken said:

In the Simulacrum, it handled very well, just as I stated before. That was no fluke.

After that, I took some beam weapons out into actual missions. I took the Cycron into the sortie today, and it killed literally everything like it was nothing. The Ignis Wraith also performed remarkably well against Eximus units. Don't even get me started on Amprex, that thing is a monster.

Maybe you should actually try out the beam weapons. There's a whole lot of us telling you it's good, and there's plenty of proof that they are. Seriously, go pick up a beam weapon, level it up, potato it, and give it a whirl. It won't hurt and you might actually like it, instead of theorizing how they might perform.

 

I have done exactly what you suggest. The difference between the beam weapons pre-hotfix and post-hotfix is like night and day. There's no theory here; when you have to swap targets, or when you can't always stay on target, they're garbage now. Better than they were, sure, but garbage compared to a hitscan weapon with equivalent investment.

Why should anybody, ever, bring a weapon that takes 1 second - per target - to ramp up to the same damage output that a comparable hitscan weapon does instantly - in a horde shooter of all genres?

[KotoKuraken]

Just now, Khift said:

I have done exactly what you suggest. The difference between the beam weapons pre-hotfix and post-hotfix is like night and day. There's no theory here; when you have to swap targets, or when you can't always stay on target, they're garbage now. Better than they were, sure, but garbage compared to a hitscan weapon with equivalent investment.

Why should anybody, ever, bring a weapon that takes 1 second - per target - to ramp up to the same damage output that a comparable hitscan weapon does instantly - in a horde shooter of all genres?

Well firstly, 1 second is not that long. Most enemies under lvl 50 die instantly even with half damage. Secondly, the fire rate. Beam weapons have an incredible firerate that allows them to do multiple hits per second, which means that even for that microscopic moment of ramp up, you'll be doing the same or a lot more damage than your full auto weapons. Lastly, you're complaining about a feature that you'd only need to kick in if the enemy is incredibly tanky, like above lvl 60 Bombards. As I said about bringing them into sorties, they killed everything like they were nothing.

Now maybe the way the beam weapon "feels" is a different story, not everyone enjoys the type of weapon. But trust me, beam weapons are certainly not lacking in the DPS department

[Khift]

1 minute ago, KotoKuraken said:

Well firstly, 1 second is not that long. Most enemies under lvl 50 die instantly even with half damage. Secondly, the fire rate. Beam weapons have an incredible firerate that allows them to do multiple hits per second, which means that even for that microscopic moment of ramp up, you'll be doing the same or a lot more damage than your full auto weapons. Lastly, you're complaining about a feature that you'd only need to kick in if the enemy is incredibly tanky, like above lvl 60 Bombards. As I said about bringing them into sorties, they killed everything like they were nothing.

Now maybe the way the beam weapon "feels" is a different story, not everyone enjoys the type of weapon. But trust me, beam weapons are certainly not lacking in the DPS department

1 second is not that long? You're kidding, right? Most weapons, under normal horde-shooter circumstances, get multiple kills per second. And yet a beam weapon is expected to ramp up over a significantly longer time-on-target than it takes hitscan weapons to even kill a target.

And no, even during the "microscopic" amount of ramp up time, you wont' be doing more damage than hitscan weapons. Even when fully ramped, beam weapons - even the best of them - do less damage than hitscan weapons. What makes them good now is their status proc rate. But that's a totally different discussion.

And again you cite sorties. I've brought them to sorties too. They're okay. They're serviceable. With enough investment they get the job done. But there's literally zero argument, outside of overperformers like the Amprex, that they're as good as a proper hitscan weapon now. None. They just do a straight half damage during the type of gameplay the game actually has, which is frantic, multi-target horde shooting.

[KotoKuraken]

2 minutes ago, Khift said:

1 second is not that long? You're kidding, right? Most weapons, under normal horde-shooter circumstances, get multiple kills per second. And yet a beam weapon is expected to ramp up over a significantly longer time-on-target than it takes hitscan weapons to even kill a target.

And no, even during the "microscopic" amount of ramp up time, you wont' be doing more damage than hitscan weapons. Even when fully ramped, beam weapons - even the best of them - do less damage than hitscan weapons. What makes them good now is their status proc rate. But that's a totally different discussion.

And again you cite sorties. I've brought them to sorties too. They're okay. They're serviceable. With enough investment they get the job done. But there's literally zero argument, outside of overperformers like the Amprex, that they're as good as a proper hitscan weapon now. None. They just do a straight half damage during the type of gameplay the game actually has, which is frantic, multi-target horde shooting.

I feel like you're taking this personally. I'd rather you don't.

I'm wondering if maybe your builds are just not properly built for the type of damage, status, and crit of each particular weapon. Utilizing the correct status built and elementals makes these weapons pretty powerful. Again, enemies in sorties with the Cycron and Synoid Gammacor melt instantly with these two pistols, and the rifles are pretty much the same story. There has to be some reason why they're melting for me and not for you, but that could be anything like different builds, aiming and consistently hitting faces, adding punchthrough, etc. Whatever I'm doing, they're melting instantly for me in all three sortie missions.

Which beam weapon specifically are you having trouble with?

[Khift]

1 minute ago, KotoKuraken said:

I feel like you're taking this personally. I'd rather you don't.

I'm wondering if maybe your builds are just not properly built for the type of damage, status, and crit of each particular weapon. Utilizing the correct status built and elementals makes these weapons pretty powerful. Again, enemies in sorties with the Cycron and Synoid Gammacor melt instantly with these two pistols, and the rifles are pretty much the same story. There has to be some reason why they're melting for me and not for you, but that could be anything like different builds, aiming and consistently hitting faces, adding punchthrough, etc. Whatever I'm doing, they're melting instantly for me in all three sortie missions.

Which beam weapon specifically are you having trouble with?

Let me get this straight - you accuse me of taking this personally, and then you immediately jump into ad-hominem and insinuate that I don't know how to mod weapons?

We're done here. Get some class, man. Also learn how to actually make points.

[KotoKuraken]

1 minute ago, Khift said:

Let me get this straight - you accuse me of taking this personally, and then you immediately jump into ad-hominem and insinuate that I don't know how to mod weapons?

We're done here. Get some class, man. Also learn how to actually make points.

I offered to help you out with the builds, and which beam weapon you have a problem with, since you generalized them all and never really specified which beam weapon you thought sucked.