MR 19 test needs to change.

[LupisV0lk]

It's a real pain  and is in order of a  change.

Edited March 8, 2018 by LupisV0lk

[Guest]

I disagree. I had more fun doing this test than any other. And it actually does TEST players.

[Urabask]

  If you don't feel like learning all the timing it takes just cheese it with Banshee+Redeemer.

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

It's actually the only test so far that felt like a test and not just a complete joke.

I've failed 3 times before I realized I'd need to actually put effort into it.
Learned how the enemies behave, their preferred pathways and the quickest route to reach my goal without killing every single one of them whilst efficiently killing enemies that I can kill.

Wanna know what the Mastery 20 test is?
3 seconds worth of archwing race, you heard me right, 3 seconds.

[RayxAyanami]

No.

[BL4CKN0ISE]

NVM 

Edited March 8, 2018 by BL4CKN0ISE

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

you just gotta dust off those legit stealth game techniques.
ill admit though id love to see some visual notification that allows you to know if you are being detected by an enemy, sort of like the notifications in the farcry series or mgs5.

And i know, we shouldn't nick things from mediocre, formulaic games (talking about farcry) but when it comes to QoL changes, DE shouldnt be afraid to look to other games for ideas.

[taiiat]

idunno i did it with Dual Ichor and Saryn back then (because they look cool, more importantly nothing special about them stealth wise). balance speed with hiding, and some patience when needed. you'll be fine.

36 minutes ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

ill admit though id love to see some visual notification that allows you to know if you are being detected by an enemy

Enemies in Warframe is more of a Binary thing though, especially when them seeing you is whether you fail, not if they alert others.
 

Edited March 8, 2018 by taiiat

[Leqesai]

13 hours ago, LupisV0lk said:

It's a real pain  and is in order of a  change.

You need to expand on this. Calling for change without any justification is not productive.

 

Why are you having issues with the mission? What solutions could you envision to fix the issues? Are these issues isolated to your ability or the mission itself?

[(XBOX)alf swarm]

Every Mr test should be this hard. Right now Mr means nothing but how much you're willing to grind.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

On 3/8/2018 at 3:42 PM, taiiat said:

Enemies in Warframe is more of a Binary thing though, especially when them seeing you is whether you fail, not if they alert others.

well, i mean, that also needs to change.

5 golden rules of stealth gameplay:

1. you must have a clear understanding of whether or not you are visible in general or visible to a specific enemy
2. the enemy shall have a delay between having you in their visual cone and actually realising they can see you (most games have short delay at close range, and a long delay when distant, for example)
3. there must be a delay between 1 enemy spotting you and all enemies becoming aware of you. (to allow you a moment to correct a mistake by killing said enemy)
4. enemies must clearly broadcast their alert level visually and audibly
5. NO UNPREDICTABLE 180 DEGREE TURNS!

[taiiat]

2 minutes ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

well, i mean, that also needs to change.

in principle i agree, except that traditional by the book Stealth Games - are just AFK'ing games. memorizing where to AFK and for how long. this is okay when a Player is choosing to at a point where Enemies have created a nonscripted situation where this is necessary, but traditional Stealth Games aren't loose and freeform.

no rather, Warframe style Stealth Gameplay is more like Shadow of Mordor. which does employ some of the traditional rules but does also throw some of the others out of the window to allow Stealth to also be aggressive.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

4 minutes ago, taiiat said:

in principle i agree, except that traditional by the book Stealth Games - are just AFK'ing games. memorizing where to AFK and for how long. this is okay when a Player is choosing to at a point where Enemies have created a nonscripted situation where this is necessary, but traditional Stealth Games aren't loose and freeform.

no rather, Warframe style Stealth Gameplay is more like Shadow of Mordor. which does employ some of the traditional rules but does also throw some of the others out of the window to allow Stealth to also be aggressive.

yeah like shadow of mordor or better yet assassins creed.

more potentially "agressive" stealth examples could include dishonored, deus ex (after youve unlocked most of the augs), mark of the ninja and the batman arkham series.

hell, even the latest entry in the thief series can be played pretty fast and hard

[DatDarkOne]

16 minutes ago, taiiat said:

no rather, Warframe style Stealth Gameplay is more like Shadow of Mordor. which does employ some of the traditional rules but does also throw some of the others out of the window to allow Stealth to also be aggressive.

Don't forget about Tenchu series.  Those games also allow for aggressive stealth while also rewarding patience.  

Those "5 Golden Rules of Stealth Gameplay" are complete bullshyte that isn't even true due to games like Tenchu not having most of those and it was the game that started the stealth genre.  And no it was not Metal Gear Solid as most tend to think.  Most of the stealth games I have played don't follow those rules either.  

Edit: Well number 5 is kinda a must have just to be fair. 

 

Edited March 9, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[SixDimensions]

Just brought Ivara for the enemy radar and covert lethality dagger. Not much of an issue

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

9 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Don't forget about Tenchu series.  Those games also allow for aggressive stealth while also rewarding patience.  

Those "5 Golden Rules of Stealth Gameplay" are complete bullshyte that isn't even true due to games like Tenchu not having most of those and it was the game that started the stealth genre.  And no it was not Metal Gear Solid as most tend to think.  Most of the stealth games I have played don't follow those rules either.  

Edit: Well number 5 is kinda a must have just to be fair. 

 

i dunno, tenchu had most of the rules too.

1. you must have a clear understanding of whether or not you are visible in general or visible to a specific enemy  ✔
   • In Tenchu, you knew you were pretty much invisible on the rooftops (unless enemies are actively searching for you)
      
2. the enemy shall have a delay between having you in their visual cone and actually realising they can see you (most games have short delay at close range, and a long delay when distant, for example)   ✔
   • In tenchu you can usually still perform a stealth kill if an enemy turns around and faces you if you try and attack them right as they turn
      
3. there must be a delay between 1 enemy spotting you and all enemies becoming aware of you. (to allow you a moment to correct a mistake by killing said enemy)   ✔
   • Tenchu actually takes this to the exreme by simply not magically alerting everyone without reason, enemies generally have to be nearby enough to hear the fight
      
4. enemies must clearly broadcast their alert level visually and audibly   ✔
   • tenchu alerts you of your enemies through means of an onscreen indicator with ?, !, !!, and !?
      
5. NO UNPREDICTABLE 180 DEGREE TURNS!   ✘
   • Tenchu fails this one though

[DatDarkOne]

Fair enough.  It was the wording on "delay" that where I was thinking you meant something slightly different/longer.  Thank you for going into more detail @DeckChairVonBananaCamel.  I appreciate that.   

Now to be honest about stealth mastery tests in Warframe.  They do need to be looked at again since the changes to enemy awareness and AI have greatly effected those tests.  I can do them because I like that type of thing, but it can be overly punishing for others.

Edited March 10, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[(PSN)El_Senior_Fats]

6 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Fair enough.  It was the wording on "delay" that where I was thinking you meant something slightly different/longer.  Thank you for going into more detail @DeckChairVonBananaCamel.  I appreciate that.   

Now to be honest about stealth mastery tests in Warframe.  They do need to be looked at again since the changes to enemy awareness and AI have greatly effected those tests.  I can do them because I like that type of thing, but it can be overly punishing for others.

You actually made a good point, you can do it because you like them, or because you have practice and are good at it, so others who are not so good at stealth missions will find it more difficult. 

But isnt that exactly the point of a MR test? you master something?

This test is far from requiring mastery to complete it but it will require a player to, the least, feel comfortable doing this type of missions. So if they are not, then they will need to practice and get better. 

This sums up perfectly what MR tests should be. All test require certain "mastery", call it bullet jumping, movement speed, endurance, etc. I think thats what they intended them to be. In my opinion that are too easy, they should be more challenging but they should not have 24h cooldowns, make it really challenging, have a lower cooldown.

[Blade_Wolf_16]

MR 19 test? Hard? Hmm, I have no memories of that...

To be honest, I simply used a full Parkour/Speed build with Ash (not very usefull, but at least I wanted to be prepared) and my Glaive to kill from afar. Just had to be patient and throw it while no one could see the body.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Blade_Wolf_16