Nullifier bubble stacking

[yles9056]

I don't mind having few nullifiers in high level missions. It makes the mission a bit more challenging and adds some variety.

But having a nullifier inside another nullifier's bubble inside another nullifier's bubble is just unfair(that's 3 layers of nullifier bubble). I can't even see where the nullifier drones are.

IMO Nullifier shouldn't be able to stack their bubble. That is, if a nullifier is inside another nullifier's bubble, his own bubble should be temporary disabled. Only one should remain active.

[Andele3025]

Id rather see nullies pause abilities (and let buffs tick without effect) so that people just rush in and kill the sods while they are still in the bubble (if they are close enough to do any harm).

[Kalvorax]

to bounce off the bubble stacking....arctic nullifier NEEDS to go....having to fight down a nullifier bubble and then an ice bubble (during which the nullifier bubble has increased back to its normal size) is absolutely ridiculous.

had a few of these in one of the recent corpus sorties...it was bad....

Edited March 9, 2018 by Kalvorax

[IfritKajiTora]

Nullifier with bubble should not be able to enter another nullifier buble. So each nullifier buble should be as a wall for each other.

[SteamlordD]

Or, get this... A decent spawn director. Enemies like Nullifiers and Bombards and Ancients all being more of a threat, but spawning one at a time within waves of regular enemies, acting like mid-boss enemies, instead of just another faceless dude you see hundreds of.

Edited March 9, 2018 by SteamlordD

[AlendasNaro]

Also I think continuous effects having weapons on an area should be allowed to make the bubble to shrink. Things like Nightwatch Napalm. It would be really nice if that is allowed. After all thing is dealing damage why not allow it to do that? Also I agree on my friend's statement that this is the most rage inducing thing ever that the bubbles can stack and it would be nice that if there is some kind of synergy stuff between the nullifiers. Like that two nullifiers together will make bigger bubble. It would be something quite nice but I think then you should nerf the unit a bit.

Edited March 9, 2018 by AlendasNaro

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Nullifiers need to be much more rare entirely. Make Scrambuses and Combas more common in their place. Nullifying certain types of abilities and not also blocking your weapon attacks makes much more sense for a common enemy. As is, no one freaks out when they see an occasional Scrambus, but a single Nullifier can be the death of a team and we've got the buggers stacking bubbles on top of each other. <.<

Making the Scramus and Combas more common would allow them to potentially stack their auras blocking off a variety of abilities in an area but we can still fall back on weapon skills. 

[Nitro747]

You didn't even mention how common they are and the fact their huge bubble clip through any walls, ceilings, obstacles, etc, making any corpus mission a chore. Also, lets remember of our Artic Eximus friends who have an ice bubble inside their nulifier bubbles :DD

 

Also, that drone where you supposedly deactivate the bubble instantly if it gets destroyed is buggier than the entirety of Warframe. Lots of times it clips behind a wall or ceiling, or it gets stuf inside the bubble, its just plain bullS#&amp;&#036;. It also makes hard hitting guns completely impossible to use in any Corpus mission. Even the plasmor that has innate punch through and a huge aoe is incapable of reliably destroying the drone.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Nitro747

[Nitro747]

56 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Nullifiers need to be much more rare entirely. Make Scrambuses and Combas more common in their place. Nullifying certain types of abilities and not also blocking your weapon attacks makes much more sense for a common enemy. As is, no one freaks out when they see an occasional Scrambus, but a single Nullifier can be the death of a team and we've got the buggers stacking bubbles on top of each other. <.<

Making the Scramus and Combas more common would allow them to potentially stack their auras blocking off a variety of abilities in an area but we can still fall back on weapon skills. 

Only problem is that Scambuses and Combas often times have a bug where they deactivate all of your abilities, not just one or two. Also, you always get caught by surprise but it is already a no-brainer in the community that they are much better designed as an enemy than the nullifiers. They are much more fun to fight against. They actually dodge and leap and do stuff towards you while the nulifier just walk and snipes you to death.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

5 minutes ago, Nitro747 said:

Only problem is that Scambuses and Combas often times have a bug where they deactivate all of your abilities, not just one or two. Also, you always get caught by surprise but it is already a no-brainer in the community that they are much better designed as an enemy than the nullifiers. They are much more fun to fight against. They actually dodge and leap and do stuff towards you while the nulifier just walk and snipes you to death.

They definitely are more interesting enemies.

As far as the bug, that just means DE needs to fix the bug. And even with that bug, I'd take a Scrambus/Comba accidentally turning off all of my abilities over a Nullifier intentionally blocking all of my abilities and weapons for him and all his entourage any day.

[Dornez]

I am going to play the devils advocate here. I hate bubbles just as much as the next guy

Nullifiers are not new. You know what type of mission you are going into and who you are fighting ahead of time. THere are plenty of weapons that will absolutely demolish a bubble. Equip one of them. 

If you are stuck with the idea that your 1 favorite loadout will get you through every type of mission and every faction of enemy, I have bad news for you. 

[Nitro747]

2 hours ago, Dornez said:

I am going to play the devils advocate here. I hate bubbles just as much as the next guy

Nullifiers are not new. You know what type of mission you are going into and who you are fighting ahead of time. THere are plenty of weapons that will absolutely demolish a bubble. Equip one of them. 

If you are stuck with the idea that your 1 favorite loadout will get you through every type of mission and every faction of enemy, I have bad news for you. 

You are not playing "devil's advocate" you are just giving a lame excuse for a lame/broken enemy to wander around. As I said before, there are a very good reason people hate nulifiers but never say a word about Combas/etc. Those things are buggy asf and make the entire experience a chore rather than just being a hard enemy. The fact that a lot of our frames and weapons gets nulified (pun not intended) simply because of one broken unit says a lot about it. One thing is having the optimal frame/weapon for doing a certain job. Another thing is having a plethora of frames of weapons made useless because one guy will make them useless.  

[DiabolusUrsus]

2 hours ago, Dornez said:

I am going to play the devils advocate here. I hate bubbles just as much as the next guy

Nullifiers are not new. You know what type of mission you are going into and who you are fighting ahead of time. THere are plenty of weapons that will absolutely demolish a bubble. Equip one of them. 

If you are stuck with the idea that your 1 favorite loadout will get you through every type of mission and every faction of enemy, I have bad news for you. 

Nope.

DE encourages loadout favoritism with lenses and Focus.

They also deliberately accommodated low RoF weapons by adding the bubble drone in the first place.

So when bubbles stack enough to conceal the drones, that is obviously an oversight and not working as intended. It should be rectified.

So let's not get up on a tacti-cool "I can strategize better than you plebs" high horse to defend something that doesn't need to be defended.

[Nitro747]

6 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Nope.

DE encourages loadout favoritism with lenses and Focus.

They also deliberately accommodated low RoF weapons by adding the bubble drone in the first place.

So when bubbles stack enough to conceal the drones, that is obviously an oversight and not working as intended. It should be rectified.

So let's not get up on a tacti-cool "I can strategize better than you plebs" high horse to defend something that doesn't need to be defended.

you forgot to mention that if you are a client the drone will not be destroyed 99% of times and as a host they tend to get stuck behind ceilings/walls or inside the bubble itself :D

[Dornez]

Just now, DiabolusUrsus said:

DE encourages loadout favoritism with lenses and Focus.

Fair point

[DiabolusUrsus]

2 hours ago, Nitro747 said:

you forgot to mention that if you are a client the drone will not be destroyed 99% of times 

Can't really comment on this; not normally a client and haven't encountered it.

2 hours ago, Nitro747 said:

andas a host they tend to get stuck behind ceilings/walls or inside the bubble itself :D

I look at the ceiling/wall thing as more of an issue with the tileset design. The same snags that hide the drone tend to get in the way of parkour. IMO the wall hitboxes should just not include those pipes, etc.

The inside the bubble thing definitely sucks though.

[yles9056]

@Dornez

I use Burston Prime. It breaks single bubble pretty fast. But against 3 layers of bubble, it takes a lot more ammo and time to break them. Often times, one of them will start regenerating when you are dealing with other nullifiers.

 

@Nitro747

Nullifier drone is a problem as well. It's supposed to encourage precision aiming. But in reality, it doesn't.

-Its health scale so fast that you won't be able to kill it in few shot.

-It's a small target that takes time to aim. But you really don't have time for that when everything is in chaos and countless of guns are shooting at you.

-It can only be seen from the front.

Edited March 10, 2018 by yles9056

[_Vortus_]

And you are ok with multiple Tenno stacking their powers with each other?   But enemies cannot do the same?

[yles9056]

Just now, _Vortus_ said:

And you are ok with multiple Tenno stacking their powers with each other?   But enemies cannot do the same?

Yep.

This is not a PvP game where things need to be fair for both Tenno and enemies.

[_Vortus_]

1 minute ago, yles9056 said:

Yep.

This is not a PvP game where things need to be fair for both Tenno and enemies.

Weak sauce.   Being fair has nothing to do with it.   Being interesting does.   Hard enemies are interesting.  

[True_Naeblis]

5 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

Weak sauce.   Being fair has nothing to do with it.   Being interesting does.   Hard enemies are interesting.  

Not when the mechanic is broken. The drones float in the edge of the bubble and aren't able to be properly targeted, and it's even worse if you have bubbles on bubbles on bubbles. If it all worked correctly it might be fine, but it doesn't, so it's not.

[_Vortus_]

3 hours ago, True_Naeblis said:

Not when the mechanic is broken. The drones float in the edge of the bubble and aren't able to be properly targeted, and it's even worse if you have bubbles on bubbles on bubbles. If it all worked correctly it might be fine, but it doesn't, so it's not.

Odd that it works fine for some but not for others.    

[ikkabotz]

How high lvl are you talking? Just curious where people feel the effects in complaints like these, was playing with a group on Mot the other day and we got to around lvl 157 ~80 minutes in and still were managing without much issue. Or maybe it was a different mission type combined with the nullifier, but on my side despite finding them obnoxious at times I feel like anyhting beyond what they are would make them effectively meaningless.

They're meant to be particularly devastating to abilities, but I've always felt there's three ways of managing them quickly. .beam weapons on the bubble seem effective, sliding melee attacks, or one shot to their bubble. Yes, having a trifecta of nullies sounds terrible, but I feel that reinventing approach most the time can preemptively avoid those things described.

It's not that I love the concept of nullifier, it's just that to diminish them just strips another layer of an already pretty static form of playing at higher levels. People talking about the health scaling of the nullifier being too fast and the precision aiming to one shot their bubble is too hard in the chaos, I'm not seeing the difficulty as described, and just to be an opinion on the opposite side of the coin I like the precision aiming. .really from my own experience it's just best to take a nullifier down fast, which is rarely hard to do. .in my opinion 

Edited March 10, 2018 by komoriblues

[yles9056]

@komoriblues

It was Corpus sortie 2 survival with element enhancement. Sortie and alert missions seem to have higher spawn rate for heavy and special units than usual missions. I finished the mission and replayed it several times to try out different loadout combination. It's totally doable. Just annoying.

I don't have maiming strike and don't want to risk my life against dozens of Corpus techs inside the bubble so guns are my preferred solution. But triple nullifier bubbles takes a lot of ammo and time to break let alone how frequently they are spawned. This really hurts frames that relies on applying debuff/cc to enemies to survive such as Equinox, Nova, Banshee, etc.

Most players I saw choose to stay in a room with only one entrance. Then spam slide attack with their whip. I assume they either have maiming strike or +crit on slide riven. That makes things a lot easier, but staying in the same tiny room all the time is a bit boring tho.

Edited March 10, 2018 by yles9056

[Paradoxbomb]

I think the most ideal solution to this problem would be to simply control their spawn rate so that they don't regularly arrive in droves, and maybe even update them to be a heavy/miniboss type enemy with an appropriate spawn rate (it would be neat if they replaced the generic Sniper Crewman with one of those upcoming spider drones or something). Heck, maybe they could even alleviate the issue by simply making weapon swapping fast by default so that switching to a fast-firing sidearm, popping the bubble(s), and then switching back to your heavy-hitting weapon isn't such a hassle.

But yeah, having Nullifier bubbles combine into a singular, larger bubble when they come into contact with each other would be a neat little mechanic that could make taking down multiple bubbles a bit less of a pain, even if it'd require a bit more work on the Devs part to implement.