feedback from a 4 years dedicated loser

[Grimm]

i loved this game since i found it in 2014 and i played it nearly everyday. im mr 25.

i miss endgame

with the removal of void keys, veterans have seen the steady decline in endgame content being endless and rewarding.
i understand why the void keys system was removed in exchange for the relic system, its alot nicer for players who cant play the game as often as others. but you have left those who do with nothing really to do anymore. 

The Void:
void keys allowed 4 players to go on 1x key and come out at 100 waves with 20 items each.
relics allow 4 players to go in on 4 relics and come out at 100 waves having used 80 relics and come out with 20 items each. 
i loved doing endless missions because it paid out and it had difficulty to it, but now i dont even open relics anymore. instead i sell the relics as its more reliable.
if you added some incentive to go endless (a better incentive as the current one is new player friendly not veteran friendly) 
something like every x number of rewards you could take more then one of the displayed rewards, or even making that current incentive of you get a rad relic into you get a vaulted relic, bolstering the value of doing endless.

The Trails
i was happy to see the back end of raids, you could tell the devs didn't like trying to fix them anymore, i agree that they needed taken out, completely overhauled then reintroduced when they are a lot more refined. i hope to see them return with new arcanes or new rewards entirely. as one of the players who was there for that content right out the gate, it was amazing, it sucks its became so niche in the end. i know myself i stopped playing them because trying to teach newer players to do them was getting harder with the bugs getting worse and worse. 

Relics
i think you need to do something about the dilution in the gather of relics. currently you can go to a node and get any of an era, that worked fine with void keys because there was so few, i feel there is more rng on gathering the parts you want at that level then there was in the entirety of the old system, yes getting the put you wanted out of a key was a lot harder but that was half the fun for those who had the time, but i think relics should be split up more between nodes, going to one node gives you x relics from and era instead of all relics from an era, it allows for more dedicated farming of what your looking for instead. 

The Void Left Overs
i happy you left the tiles in. but they dont really feel worth going to, and you left the fun of primes get free energy there. i think myself the void should be the continues back end of fissures allowing players to always go there to open relics, as well as making each node have different resources, relative to where the fissures are out side the void. giving the void more reason to be used. its a beautiful tile set and i hope ballas takes us there for the coming quest.

Old Lore Touch Ups or explanations 
currently alot of the older lore is very ambiguous and with the hands on state of the quests effecting lore, revisions in the old content needs to be made or at least more information revealed. as of right now i can not figure out which tau system the sentient where sent towards on there journey to craft the solar rail path to a habitable star system. as the closest tau system that is habitable is tau ceti, but there are no blue stars between tau ceti and sol to explain the blue star war in mag codex and lotus chat about mirage. the only way i can explain lotus having knowledge of such things is if the war of the blue star is a memory of marg not natah, which could be the point of why she became so mad at with the first lore depiction of one of her children dying in combat for the orokin. as well as the way characters speak of the void in that old content is as if it was a failure not the basis of their culture. im sure that man with davis in the rhino prime entry is ballas tho, it has to be.

End
but yea im pretty bored with warframe right now, i am loving all the fix's to broken content etc. but im sad there is no real endgame right now, as the eidolons are fairly new non vet content, more of a mid game content, i hope the other plains allows for harder sentient. 
right now im playing other games until warframe picks back up, and i have noticed alot of my fellow long term players doing the same. i hope the coming content is enough to give us long term veterans a reason to play regularly again. thank you.

[Rawbeard]

22 minutes ago, Grimm said:

void keys allowed 4 players to go on 1x key and come out at 100 waves with 20 items each.
relics allow 4 players to go in on 4 relics and come out at 100 waves having used 80 relics and come out with 20 items each. 

I agree, relics are fair to everyone, unlike keys. you are correct about this being a great change!

[trndr]

18 minutes ago, Rawbeard said:

I agree, relics are fair to everyone, unlike keys. you are correct about this being a great change!

Yea it's fair since no matter what you do you also get the reward.

It's also fair everyone gets a gold throphy in things that are called events.

Also everyone should get Excal Prime cos that would be fair.

Clan tech should be free so everyone got it.

Potatos and Primed Chamber should be rewarded for doing weekely missions where you 1v1 a lvl 1 charger so everyone gets enough.

There should be 50 modslots on frames so all builds can be used all the time.

And last but not least forma should add not replace polarities.

[Xzorn]

Well, in 5 years I've never heard DE quote the phrase " The new direction of Warframe ".

So it seems they've looked at the numbers since PoE. Think that's what players want, what makes money and will continue on this course of casual casino game play. I think it's safe to assume anything we've liked about the game in the past 5 years in terms of play styles, mission types or methods is no longer going to be supported. Most of it will still be there but from my experience it will be forgotten like DE has done with a lot of content in the past.

It's a shame cuz PoE isn't bad for a week or so but the rest of the game is what's kept me here for 5 years.

I'm kinda tired of watching this Players Vs. Devs Farming Nerf War too.

[_Vortus_]

1 hour ago, Grimm said:

 

End Game and the Void

Not sure there has ever really been an end game.   The first time I remember high level enemies in an event was when Tempo Royale was introduced.   After a fail, we did it right at the start, and it was awesome.   And heard about some that did it solo (regardless of how, they still did it).  Then red text.   They made it easier due to the tears.   Pretty much a synopsis on higher level content from then till now.   Also think players remember the Void being better than it actually was.   Spending way more keys to get a part than currently what it takes to get a part.   And the drops from relics....  blue cores (rough equivalent of 15 endo....), useless mods and my favorite, Ocells as a 4th wave rewards.... there were nice things but in others it was crap.    And back to the end game, even then it took an hour to get to interesting enemies just like now.   With the Void, and other tiles, each needs a reason to go there imo.   Be it a specific relic that drops there or something else.   The rewards are pretty diluted as of now. 

 

And yeah, I would love for them to polish the base game itself in all aspects.   As, at least imo, there is more than enough content as is for new to intermediate players to run through.   Months of play time at a minimum to clear the currently available content.   New content should be focused on advancing the tiers of game play.   As sooner or later the current new players will be finished and sitting where we are as well.    The path needs to progress.   Each new stage of the game should be progressively harder and the option to crank up enemy levels on older content would be nice to.    But, I am not wishing for anything that has not been asked for before in way or another.    So, ill continue to play like always because I still enjoy the game even as it is.    Been playing a long time as well.   Still do a few times a week.  More when new content comes out.   But, nothing wrong with taking breaks, playing other games and coming back. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by _Vortus_
snipped out qoute, no need to scroll through all that again

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

Ballas is cool'n all but I suspect Vor will be back with more power. He isn't dead, still, no matter how many times we cut him in half. 

Mark my words, Vor is a classic antagonist that never truly dies, and is the main antagonist.  I truly hope some badass stuff happens with Ballas, and Vor come from literally nowhere and backstabs him. " Look at my power TENNO (10-oh)"

Vote for Vor 2018

[RoninJed]

I've been playing since 2013 and have around 3k hours in. I think DE keeps making the game better with every new update. 

 I was there for the trails too when they were new but I never thought they were amazing and don't miss them at all. The trails were not "endgame".

 They were long boring missions that required you to use specific frames and spam one ability over and over. Sure the second trial was better but still boring and broken.

 The only thing the trails were good for was making platinum. Which was wrong because it was the only place to farm arcane attachments. Locking items behind boring broken missions was only good for those who could stand playing it hehe.

 In my opinion that dosent make you a "vet" and shouldn't count as "endgame". 

 

[trndr]

1 minute ago, RoninJed said:

They were long boring missions that required you to use specific frames and spam one ability over and over. Sure the second trial was better but still boring and broken.

And moving arcanes to shorter more broken missions with much stricter frame requirements was a fix?

Sure you can now get 9-12 arcanes in 50 min compared to 3, but that just devalues the boring grind.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I concur that the game has been made to be more friendly for early-mid game.

Hoping for Endless Kuva Floods or even Nightmare Axi Void Fissure missions, would work for me.

Other than that, we do have the proposed Endless "Gate" missions. Just hoping DE does this with tailored starting enemy level to appease.

(I wish we could at least scale the whole Star chart to current Simulacrum MR-enemy level cap)

As for rewards:

-I think MR should be tied to individual Affinity multiplier bonus (Even if MR was 1% affinity per MR level it would cap at MR30 so 30%)

Rewards are a bit trickier, but I would like to see Darvo or some other NPC offer up the ability to run special Void Fissure Missions that are Trace -Independent and allow a player to run the Fissure mission at 150 enemy starting level but all Relics would be opened as being Radiant.

 

I think the affinity multiplier and letting Host scale enemy starting level like Simulacrum, could inject some life into random Starchart Nodes.(Sort of miss when some levels/enemies would scale from groups CR)

[(PSN)MrNishi]

9 minutes ago, trndr said:

And moving arcanes to shorter more broken missions with much stricter frame requirements was a fix?

Sure you can now get 9-12 arcanes in 50 min compared to 3, but that just devalues the boring grind.

I am hoping Operators become more independent, even if it is only for Sentient combat.

To me it would make sense that Operators would Battle Sentients rather than the Warframes. Even though Warframes are technically a weapon/tool used by the Tenno. 

DE could make it where Grineer and Corpus are more Warframe bias as it has been traditionally, along with Corrupted.

Infested being Warframe or Operator neutral.

Senitent being more Operator bias to the point where an MR30 Operator (Since technically our Mastery Rank level is supposed to be our Operator...not sure how DE will marry* those together. They could have had MR scale our health/Armor/Energy like it does with Warframes. Technically loadslots, Extractor deployment (wish it was not capped at 3(4 (or5?) if Founder or have purchased Prime Access), and newer Unleveled Mod capacity are tied to MR. Making it somewhat similar to leveling a weapon/Warframe for capacity.

 

There are a lot of placeholders with Warframe: We still have yet to have the Relays fully unlocked/opened, among a long list of other promised content/expansion.

Hoping DE does decide to just surprise us with some content. (Like not hype or talk about it, and just throw it in and wait for the response.) 

2nd Dream sort-of felt that way and so did Apostasy Prologue. 

I would flip if DE just gave us Simulacrum Enemy level control of Star chart missions just out of the blue, with no warning/preview.

Something subtle like putting it in the Gameplay Menu Settings : Toggled Mission Enemy Mission level then desired number.

4 hours ago, Grimm said:

im sad there is no real endgame right now, as the eidolons are fairly new non vet content, more of a mid game content, i hope the other plains allows for harder sentient. 
right now im playing other games until warframe picks back up, and i have noticed alot of my fellow long term players doing the same. i hope the coming content is enough to give us long term veterans a reason to play regularly again. thank you.

I actually started alt-accounts, as I was getting bored.

My experience strongly reflects that it is much easier for new players to get caught up with Veteran players in terms of items and to be efficient at the current content. Milestones aside*

With no drive or incentive to hone playstyle for level Multi-hundred or multi-thousand enemies, because there is really only self-accomplishment and not a decent in-game valued reward.

*Event (hard mode)milestones, Stratos milestones, even John Prodman 1hr Index Milestone; are decent examples of implementing some higher-end reward. (I think we are overdue for a new event)

Like level 9999 Tennocon Survival but they should have allowed for endless (even if Warframes were immortal) Could have let players set a endurance or kill-count record/milestone.

 

Hopefully DE will come up with rewards for high-level content. Possibly exclusive cosmetics or something. 

Maybea poll for what high-level endurance players would like as a reward.

And another poll for what rewards would interest Veteren players to keep playing between content releases.

[RoninJed]

2 hours ago, trndr said:

And moving arcanes to shorter more broken missions with much stricter frame requirements was a fix?

Sure you can now get 9-12 arcanes in 50 min compared to 3, but that just devalues the boring grind.

Hehe "devalues the boring grind" ...you just proved my point about trials. The only "vets" complaining about lack of "endgame" after the trails got removed were only mad because they lost their platinum honey hole. 

 You seriously think the eidilon hunts are more broken and have stricter frame requirements then trials....hehe no.

Edited March 13, 2018 by RoninJed

[Rawbeard]

5 hours ago, trndr said:

Also everyone should get Excal Prime cos that would be fair.

no it would not.

[trndr]

14 minutes ago, RoninJed said:

Hehe "devalues the boring grind" ...you just proved my point about trials. The only "vets" complaining about lack of "endgame" after the trails got removed were only mad because they lost their platinum honey hole. 

 You seriously think the eidilon hunts are more broken and have stricter frame requirements then trials....hehe no.

I did'nt sell any arcanes so not my plat pit.

 

Lets go over a good Eidolon setup:

Trin required.

Volt required.

Harrow can be replaced with Oberon or Limbo.

Chroma can be replaced by Octavia or Rhino.

So 2/4 frames are required 2/4 frames have alternatives.

Weapon choices are Lanka, Vulkar Wraith, Rubico, Vectis Prime and Euphona.

 

Lets compare that with a good JV setup.

Nekros nice to have.

Speed Nova nice to have.

2/8 frames had prefered picks

Weapons what ever you could do damage with.

 

Eidolons are plauged with altars not getting enabled, random teleports, low end PCs not being able to join without goin though cetus, and randoms joining if the game is set to friends only.

 

JV had a golumn that buged out at times due to abilities, but rarely so bad it messed up a run.

 

Trials got removed for no other reason than to force players to use the node DE put work into, and hyped beyond what it actually is. And quite frankely they were milking the Plains cow way too hard before adding 2 more colour variants of eidolons.

[Viges]

They said they were working on some endless challenge like replacing dark sectors but now it's separate thing.

 

So soon™

[Xzorn]

2 hours ago, RoninJed said:

 They were long boring missions that required you to use specific frames and spam one ability over and over. Sure the second trial was better but still boring and broken.

 The only thing the trails were good for was making platinum. Which was wrong because it was the only place to farm arcane attachments. Locking items behind boring broken missions was only good for those who could stand playing it hehe.

 In my opinion that dosent make you a "vet" and shouldn't count as "endgame".

 

" The only thing X is good for was making Platinum " - This statement can be made for just about every activity in Warframe.

Except those which are not good for Platinum in which case they're not really good for anything. Earning Plat is what gives lasting value to content. Without an unending progression system that's all you can do in this game for progression when you're a veteran that has everything. The Focus system was supposed to help solve this.

Wait till you have 10 mil extra Focus with nothing to use it on AND there's little plat to be earned.

Arcanes on Eidolons are far worse for creating lasting content players will come back to. They'll hold the same value as Vault runs and I think the last time I did a Vault run was 3 years ago because I have the items and it's not enough plat to attract me. Raids had a community that lasted years because of that plat value.

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 2 heures, Xzorn a dit :

Raids had a community that lasted years because of that plat value.

Not just that, Raids also were the single most socially active community in the entire game. Nothing that's left comes even close in terms of generating more traditional MMO social structures. 

And imo that's something this game truly lacks since the removal of Dark Sector Conflicts first and Raids second. 

We have possibly the most extensive and the coolest clan infrastructure of any MMO out there and absolutely nothing to devote it towards. 

[RoninJed]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

Wait till you have 10 mil extra Focus with nothing to use it on AND there's little plat to be earned.

Hehe I'm already there. After the focus rework I was maxed in all schools. Heck I have like six or seven million extra focus xp in naramon alone right now. I have everything expect Excalibur Prime and his stuff and you know what...im still here and play the game (almost) every day.  

"Raids had a community that lasted years because of that plat value"

Hehe and DE wants to keep that small percentage of players that horde platinum because???

6 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

Not just that, Raids also were the single most socially active community in the entire game. Nothing that's left comes even close in terms of generating more traditional MMO social structures. . 

 Im sorry to say this but you pro trials people are just being drama queens. For having such a great and amazing community your numbers were always small. It was more of a exclusive club for "vets" then it was a welcoming community that was open to all players.

 

[RistN]

10 hours ago, Grimm said:

The Void:
void keys allowed 4 players to go on 1x key and come out at 100 waves with 20 items each.
relics allow 4 players to go in on 4 relics and come out at 100 waves having used 80 relics and come out with 20 items each. 

Everyone who is fan of old void is mentioning that you needed only one key to run endless.That wass only good thing about it.But what about tediousness of it that got it changed to fissure missions?What about certain parts having low drop chances that were droping on certain rotations and you having to spend 20-40 min to have one or two slim chances of getting it( and usually got forma bp)?

As for endless missions I find it more enjoyable to play on different tilesets and against different factions.Void tileset is kind of boring to me after playing it that much and all missions seemed kind of same to me.

[Kimimoto]

9 hours ago, RistN said:

That wass only good thing about it.

The best thing about it was it rewarded you for playing well, and actually incentivised you to face a challenge rather than leave at C rotation. I wouldn't mind relics as much if there were ANY alternative content that incentivised me to stay in the mission and challenge myself rather than leave.

[StabbyTentacles]

18 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Well, in 5 years I've never heard DE quote the phrase " The new direction of Warframe ".

So it seems they've looked at the numbers since PoE. Think that's what players want, what makes money and will continue on this course of casual casino game play. I think it's safe to assume anything we've liked about the game in the past 5 years in terms of play styles, mission types or methods is no longer going to be supported. Most of it will still be there but from my experience it will be forgotten like DE has done with a lot of content in the past.

It's a shame cuz PoE isn't bad for a week or so but the rest of the game is what's kept me here for 5 years.

I'm kinda tired of watching this Players Vs. Devs Farming Nerf War too.

Brass tacks/the whole story here.  ^

18 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I think it's safe to assume anything we've liked about the game in the past 5 years in terms of play styles, mission types or methods is no longer going to be supported. Most of it will still be there but from my experience it will be forgotten like DE has done with a lot of content in the past.

Can't help but see the missed opportunity, sure Warframe has become dull and monotonous. 

If anybody from DE even reads any of this... Yes, it's dull and monotonous. That does not mean your work is finished. When things are dull and monotonous, that's when you need to make some changes... advance, refine, add some imagination.

[RistN]

1 hour ago, Kimimoto said:

The best thing about it was it rewarded you for playing well, and actually incentivised you to face a challenge rather than leave at C rotation. I wouldn't mind relics as much if there were ANY alternative content that incentivised me to stay in the mission and challenge myself rather than leave.

We all look at things differently.In old void I always left on  wave 20 and didnt mind spending keys for another faster run.For me,staying beyond 20 min/wave was pointless and it meant longer and longer waves.I only gone past 20w if some rare T3 key was used.