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Dev Workshop: Endless Kuva Survival & Kuva Guardian Changes!


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27 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

Then there is the thing about kuva feeding into the riven/plat business. Kuva is not only a player resource, something a player uses only to try and improve their hard-earned riven. It is also part of the internal economy, since you can use kuva to increase the plat value of a riven (buy cheap/veiled, roll with kuva, sell for mucho plat). Currently this is somewhat under control (anyone can check the "trade channel" and compare the amount of plat/riven announcements to more game content related "get missing prime part" and wtt announcements). Adding a new, (much) more effective kuva resource than the existing ones would directly impact the internal economy, which already favors higher level players. Printing more money and increasing everybody's salary would make a lot of people happy IRL, but it still isn't really a smart thing to do (ask any economist, I think the consensus would be "it's beyond stupid" :smile:). Basically adding more kuva to the

I don't think you know what you're talking about there. Inflating the amount of kuva and reducing the Grind will result in genuinely better rolls and more competition for so called "GOD RIVENS" Unless everything I know about economics is wrong, it will result in a greater supply than demand. That can only result in reduced prices. making them effectively limited by the drop rate of rivens instead of the rolling cost.

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2 hours ago, fluffysnowcap said:

I don't think you know what you're talking about there. Inflating the amount of kuva and reducing the Grind will result in genuinely better rolls and more competition for so called "GOD RIVENS" Unless everything I know about economics is wrong, it will result in a greater supply than demand. That can only result in reduced prices. making them effectively limited by the drop rate of rivens instead of the rolling cost.

Yes, market economy-wise the price of "godly" rivens should come down if more such rivens got into the market (= not for personal use, but explicitly for sale).

However, in this case only experienced players will get more kuva, get more rolls, and produce more "godly" stuff. This wouldn't benefit new, casual and/or mid-level players at all, in fact their situation would be (even) worse, since all this happens outside their reach (plat-, gear- and mapwise).

Even if the plat-price of good rivens would come down a little bit (due to competition), the situation would be like a developing country (noob-mid) vs an industrialized one (high level). That is, high level players would buy "trash" and/or veiled rivens (raw resources) at low prices, use kuva on them and sell "good rivens" (the end product) back at (much) higher prices. If you want to know how this plays out for the developing countries, check around the world. In Warframe it would be the same.

Instead of having a game system that gives (even) bigger advantages to high level players (concerning rivens, plat & kuva), it should be the opposite. Not only for the actual game play itself, but also for DE. Giving more advantage to high level players is sort of the anti-thesis of keeping Warframe alive. This is especially true in the case of a system that would move more plat from "poor" players to the "rich" ones (regardless of any political connotations :smile:). Since you actually need some plat to advance in the game in a meaningful fashion (new weapon & frame slots, etc. etc.), this would make more players stop playing at certain points.

Now, just to make it clear, I have absolutely nothing against high-level players, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. One reason I got hooked on Warframe in the first place was that a lot of high-level players were really nice (when I was a lowly noob). And if Taveuni gave the double amount, I would be sitting on a pile of 500k kuva and could do a sh*tload of riven-rolling. I would of course like that, very much. But I still think that creating a more effective kuva-resource would be bad for Warframe, at least as the environment and the game currently functions. Now, if DE locked kuva for personal use only (you couldn't trade kuva-rolled rivens anymore, like with leveled weapons) things would be different, but I kind of prefer the current more open system.

Edited by Graavarg
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i think i know why the kuva doesn't scale, its because there taking into account with resource boosters, say it gave 50 bonus kuva each time, so that would be 200 250 300 350 then 400, but with a booster it would be 400 500 600 700, it would scale way too fast, but what if the bonus came at the end of the mission making boosters not affect the bonus, my idea would be every 5 minutes you get a extra 10 kuva that increases over time 

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  • 2 weeks later...

after seeing kuva survival myself and play it for 2 days when it was released i gave up on itwhen i saw that there is literally no point doing it, i get 1200 kuva in 3-4m from kuva siphon or 2400 from FLOOD(not even including kavat buff )  just by sitting at the  kuva place and stay invis and get free kuva. In the survival the kuva you get with booster is 400 and its Hp doesnt scale if you want to do long survival+ you sacrifice a life support. Its  something new  yes we know that `an alternative way to get kuva not a replacement` but its not worth doing given the difficulty difference.I used to spend all my day getting kuva and roll riven

i farm about 50k kuva daily by spending 3 hours
kuva survival at best you can farm 1 node every 5 minutes with life support  so 400x20= 8000 an hour (with booster ofc)

if i am to spend 3 hours clicking and  give so much efford i ofc want it to be worth and we end up 50% of the resources you can get from old meta.

 

No point spending long hours  since kuva support stations dont scale up Kuva/HP and give 1/3 of the kuva you can get from the easist kuva siphon.

End game o.O i dont think so
 

#Scale enemy reward DE

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On 2018-03-22 at 5:10 PM, [DE]Sheldon said:

Kuva awarded per successful Kuva Harvester does not increase as the Endless Survival mission progresses. Our intent is for Kuva Survival to mimic the mechanic of Excavation/Defense with the intensity of Survival.

We do not accept this. When will you introduce scaling Kuva?

Kuva Survival is not worth the effort nor time. We did not ask for endless kuva to have the same gains, we wanted more.

Grinding Kuva is long and tedious, as rolling rivens costs a bloody f-ton and results are VERY OFTEN very undesirable.

Edited by Acersecomic
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On 2018-05-13 at 8:23 AM, Acersecomic said:

We do not accept this. When will you introduce scaling Kuva?

Kuva Survival is not worth the effort nor time. We did not ask for endless kuva to have the same gains, we wanted more.

Grinding Kuva is long and tedious, as rolling rivens costs a bloody f-ton and results are VERY OFTEN very undesirable.

That's kinda the entire point of Rivens and Kuva, though. They're expensive end-game mods you can always invest more time into, so you always have something to grind.

I'd love more ways to get kuva, but I don't think handing out infinite amounts of free kuva for the lulz is really a good idea.

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5 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

That's kinda the entire point of Rivens and Kuva, though. They're expensive end-game mods you can always invest more time into, so you always have something to grind.

I'd love more ways to get kuva, but I don't think handing out infinite amounts of free kuva for the lulz is really a good idea. 

It's not really for the lulz considering how god damn awful riven rolling is and how almost all the time rolls end up being disappointments. So it's not an endgame grind, it's a waste of time. Of a lot of time. And it goes against everything DE says about Warframe, "players always get something in return for the time they invested when playing the missions". Well not in the case of Kuva farming. Amounts of Kuva earned are ludicrously low for the amount of time and effort put into them. I've got a guy in the clan who keeps rolling one riven to see how long he can go before he gets a DECENT roll, he's on 160 rolls at the moment.

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19 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

It's not really for the lulz considering how god damn awful riven rolling is and how almost all the time rolls end up being disappointments. So it's not an endgame grind, it's a waste of time. Of a lot of time. And it goes against everything DE says about Warframe, "players always get something in return for the time they invested when playing the missions". Well not in the case of Kuva farming. Amounts of Kuva earned are ludicrously low for the amount of time and effort put into them. I've got a guy in the clan who keeps rolling one riven to see how long he can go before he gets a DECENT roll, he's on 160 rolls at the moment.

They do get something for the mission investment; whatever they got besides kuva, as well as a piece of a chance to get a good mod.

It's not like you always get what you want when you play other missions.

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8 hours ago, NezuHimeSama said:

They do get something for the mission investment; whatever they got besides kuva, as well as a piece of a chance to get a good mod.

It's not like you always get what you want when you play other missions.

The TL:DR of what you said was "They get RNG BS as a reward"

I don't want to call you a idiot but that was a kinda dum conflating a spin of a slot meshing with the reward. Gambler's don't gamble to gamble, they gamble to win.

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2 hours ago, fluffysnowcap said:

The TL:DR of what you said was "They get RNG BS as a reward"

I don't want to call you a idiot but that was a kinda dum conflating a spin of a slot meshing with the reward. Gambler's don't gamble to gamble, they gamble to win.

And every online game ever with any kind of loot rng is gambling with your time, same as kuva. Kuva is just a steeper grind because it's OP end-game.

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Kuva is a time wasting activity of a slot meshine, as every other mechanic in the game that is total RNG has a net gain, every run regardless. On the outherhand kuve douse not give you a gain for every run outher then a chance to spin the wheel and pick that or old.

AKA a time wasting gamble. Now before you say relics, you always get something in that ecosystem even on a bad run.

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On 2018-05-21 at 12:30 PM, NezuHimeSama said:

They do get something for the mission investment; whatever they got besides kuva, as well as a piece of a chance to get a good mod.

It's not like you always get what you want when you play other missions.

What exactly? Resources we have so many off that you can't spend then even if they introduce a Hema clone? Or Orvius parts? Go Akkad 5 waves or 1 run of Index for tons more than you can sell parts for. What mods?! What will you get that will be worth your time with mods on Kuva? Sovereign Outcast? You get more in Plains. I GOT 3 IN ONE DAY!

Kuva farming sucks and survival literaly sucks air.

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  • 3 weeks later...

It's quite annoying to get a decent amount of kuva of 5200 kuva per 20 mins that is with booster. How about makes it 400 per kuva filter before the double resource. Sure the name is survival mission which some hardcore endgame players would want to try and run for more than an hour. But its not as rewarding and the fact that enemies get tougher and able to 1 shot the kuva filter makes this survival mission is run per 20 or 40min at maximum. Even 20-40 mins kuva survival is not rewarding enough without resource booster.

I honestly enjoy running 20 mins of survival than having to play siphon/flood, but i have to buy resource booster all the time to actually make that 20min run rewarding enough. Please just increase the rewards for each kuva filter (from 200 to 400) OR make it scale by 100 Kuva per 5 minutes up to 1000 Kuva per filter OR make it gives a random amount between 250-500 Kuva per filter. These are more rewarding than a mere constant 200 per kuva filter.

Please whoever DE devs team out there do check this thread again and read all the feedback written in here and read what your loyal players have to say about your Kuva survival mission.

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  • 2 weeks later...

and this statement here from SvenKajima "..but i have to buy resource booster all the time to actually make that 20min run rewarding" is why DE love the Kuva Survival as it is .. 

The amount of players who I have met that really want a Kuva mission .. just 1, that they can push themselves AND get better rewards by going longer.  Doesnt really seem unfair that we ask for this based on the Kuva consumption per roll .. for example: currently I have 90 rivens, most I have rolled 10-20 times, some a lot more :) anyway it equates to a S#&$ton of Kuva and missions.. really what is the harm to have 1 mission that we can team work together and get better rewards the deeper into the mission we go.. after 60 minutes it should be doubled per Kuva Tower and after 120 minutes again doubles .. that way if a team really wants to spend hours smashing through higher opposition, and in taking the risks they get better reward..  and for other players to say this is not good  blah blah .. well they wouldn't have to play the said "1 endless kuva mission" they could keep doing their own way :) everyone wins.. including DE .. and yes I always have boosters running and always will.  

Not that i think DE will do this.. something tells me they just don't want us running true endless missions.. sad. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, (PS4)owenslim said:

I've been hearing less about the kuva lately since other stuff came out, i still think that it should scale.

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If Kavat's can randomly gift you Kuva to a varying amount in specific missions/tilesets and resource boosters (or is it drop chance?) increase how much you can get from say, Kuva Survival then I see no point to this.

 

They want you to play the game. Not have everything handed to you.

Edited by Lahared
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5 minutes ago, Lahared said:
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If Kavat's can randomly gift you Kuva to a varying amount in specific missions/tilesets and resource boosters (or is it drop chance?) increase how much you can get from say, Kuva Survival then I see no point to this.

 

They want you to play the game. Not have everything handed to you.

they never said that they wanted free kuva,

he wants a reason to farm survival kuva.

for example : each 30 minutes after the initial 30 minutes you get 200 extra kuva per mission

thus giving it more of a incentive and a added fun factor to the game

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7 minutes ago, Platinum said:

they never said that they wanted free kuva,

he wants a reason to farm survival kuva.

for example : each 30 minutes after the initial 30 minutes you get 200 extra kuva per mission

thus giving it more of a incentive and a added fun factor to the game

Grinding and fun factor in a game? I'll let that sink in. There's a reason to farm kuva survival and believe it or not, It's a lot more simple than any of us would've realized: To get kuva. To then probably reroll rivens with that kuva.

 

I'm aware of what they're proposing, it just makes little sense when you have different things that benefit how much you can get, should you have them. Please re-read my original post to clear up any confusion you may have.

 

If we're going to be honest, every resource in this game is free. Unless you don't work for it, then you just don't get it.

Edited by Lahared
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4 minutes ago, Lahared said:

Grinding and fun factor in a game? I'll let that sink in. There's a reason to farm kuva survival and believe it or not, It's a lot more simple than any of us would've realized: To get kuva. To then probably reroll rivens with that kuva.

 

I'm aware of what they're proposing, it just makes little sense when you have different things that benefit how much you can get, should you have them. Please re-read my original post to clear up any confusion you may have.

 

If we're going to be honest, every resource in this game is free.

yeah the system is very simple. but very inefficient. 

I roll rivens on the daily. 

you get approx 400 kuva per minute with booster.

that is 9 minutes *per roll*

where as floods and siphons can be done in three minutes.

I'm just saying that it would give more incentive and challenge to the endless missions, considering that the enemy level scales, you should have scaling of kuva

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