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What are some Enemies in the game that needs balancing the most?


Duality52
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5 minutes ago, Checht said:

I don't watch LifeofRio so I don't get your point. If you're saying that you want to play high levels to seek more challenge, then why are you advocating for enemy nerfs then? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Well, Buffing the Enemies = More Broken at high level. Nerfing the enemies = Fixing them at high level.

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Just now, VPrime96 said:

Well, Buffing the Enemies = More Broken at high level. Nerfing the enemies = Fixing them at high level.

I'd rather see it as Buffing Enemies = no need to wait 60+ minutes for any sort of challenge.

Nerfing enemies = wait even longer before you encounter any sort of challenge.

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38 minutes ago, Checht said:

I'd rather see it as Buffing Enemies = no need to wait 60+ minutes for any sort of challenge.

Nerfing enemies = wait even longer before you encounter any sort of challenge.

Buffing Enemies...so you're saying that people should get one shot by a crewman or lancer on first excavator/ Wave 2/ 3 minutes etc? As if people didn't have more of a reason to leave the game already, making it unbearable on the first rotations isn't really gonna do the community any favours. Incremental levelling for enemies on endless missions is there so you can get used to the buffs over time as the rotations pass. Start Bere with 30-40s, reach Rot D with 60-70s or whatever and so on. Immediately buffing enemies all across the board won't do anyone any favours since starting off you'll be facing enemies that one shot you

Nerfing enemies = stupidly easy gameplay

Selectively nerfing enemies, especially in regards to their notable issues = mediated and fair gameplay. The Napalm's AoE, it was one of the most annoying factors regarding Plague Star since the toxin mixer had no survivability even in Limbo's rift if the AoE erupted anywhere near it, and neither did most frames, especially ones spec'd as casters with like 300 or so Health and Shields and <100 armour like Ember or Banshee

The Scrambus and Combas are cool enemies to fight in general and sure they're easy to dodge...on open tilesets like planetside Neptune and Pluto, try reviving, hacking or activating Life Support on Jupiter in a Hallway or that two storey indoor area when there's nullifiers, Scrambuses and whatever else

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27 minutes ago, (XB1)Lightning Silvr said:

Buffing Enemies...so you're saying that people should get one shot by a crewman or lancer on first excavator/ Wave 2/ 3 minutes etc? As if people didn't have more of a reason to leave the game already, making it unbearable on the first rotations isn't really gonna do the community any favours. Incremental levelling for enemies on endless missions is there so you can get used to the buffs over time as the rotations pass. Start Bere with 30-40s, reach Rot D with 60-70s or whatever and so on. Immediately buffing enemies all across the board won't do anyone any favours since starting off you'll be facing enemies that one shot you

When did I advocate for buffing enemies to the point where they can one-shot you? I've specifically said that I do not wish the "endgame" to be balanced at the point where enemies one-shots you, and am using level 80-100 as the standard in my earlier post. Strawman argument does not help your point. Besides, my main point is enemy nerfs are not needed, not enemy buffs are needed. With level 80-100 set as the standard, enemies are fine as they are.

The buffs that I've talked about is necessary only if DE doesn't want to introduce more missions at level 80-100 outside of Sortie 3 and Kuva flood. Currently it takes about 40 minutes for enemies to scale up to level 80, which is boring. If no more level 80-100 missions are to be introduced, then I'd like to see level 40-50 enemies buffed to level 80-100 in terms of stat, which is equivalent to introducing more level 80-100 missions. The former choice is more preferred, of course.

1 hour ago, (XB1)Lightning Silvr said:

Selectively nerfing enemies, especially in regards to their notable issues = mediated and fair gameplay. The Napalm's AoE, it was one of the most annoying factors regarding Plague Star since the toxin mixer had no survivability even in Limbo's rift if the AoE erupted anywhere near it, and neither did most frames, especially ones spec'd as casters with like 300 or so Health and Shields and <100 armour like Ember or Banshee

The Scrambus and Combas are cool enemies to fight in general and sure they're easy to dodge...on open tilesets like planetside Neptune and Pluto, try reviving, hacking or activating Life Support on Jupiter in a Hallway or that two storey indoor area when there's nullifiers, Scrambuses and whatever else

For these enemies, they are still easy to handle at level 80-100. I don't see a need to nerf.

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30 minutes ago, Checht said:

When did I advocate for buffing enemies to the point where they can one-shot you? I've specifically said that I do not wish the "endgame" to be balanced at the point where enemies one-shots you, and am using level 80-100 as the standard in my earlier post. Strawman argument does not help your point. Besides, my main point is enemy nerfs are not needed, not enemy buffs are needed. With level 80-100 set as the standard, enemies are fine as they are.

The buffs that I've talked about is necessary only if DE doesn't want to introduce more missions at level 80-100 outside of Sortie 3 and Kuva flood. Currently it takes about 40 minutes for enemies to scale up to level 80, which is boring. If no more level 80-100 missions are to be introduced, then I'd like to see level 40-50 enemies buffed to level 80-100 in terms of stat, which is equivalent to introducing more level 80-100 missions. The former choice is more preferred, of course.

If you want to deal with lvl 80 - 100 enemies, MOT is the best place for that. 300% damage Modifier is what makes them hit so hard at high level. No enemies in this game got the same Damage Scaling as MOT. So the game is easy compare to them. Even Sorties in the Void.

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5 hours ago, Checht said:

I'd much prefer the game to be balanced at around level 80-100, where players can still respond to attacks. Thus, I've been arguing with level 80-100 enemies in mind.

 

A defined level range isn't possible in Warframe because of the way DE makes sales through Prime Access and entices players to do new content.

Power Creep both Offensive and Defensive is a constant so the level range cannot remain the same without resorting to cheap tactics like DE has done in the past. 4 Years ago people who did lvl 100 content were called tryhards. Now lvl 100 is done every day. A year from now lvl 300 and so on. The bar is always going up and usually faster than DE cares to acknowledge.

Majority of frames in this game can hit lvl 300 Solo. Let alone in a group where they can combine multipliers.

This is the biggest reason I do most my endurance runs Solo these days. In order for enemies to tax a full group of well geared players the level needs to go into the thousands and the problem with this is it takes longer and longer to hit that point. 4 years ago an hour Solo run was considered good. Now it's 2-3 hours and it's become an unacceptable amount of time to wait just to see if your builds are good or need more tuning.

As a side note though. Buffing an enemy doesn't always relate to broken at later levels. Their mechanics play a key role as well. Ideally one-shots the player has a fair chance to avoid are acceptable but things like a single hit-scan bullet or a 10m AoE that goes through walls is not acceptable design. That's why my original post had both enemy nerfs and buffs. Some enemies need a buff while others need better mechanics that consider scaling.

Edited by Xzorn
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12 hours ago, Checht said:

For these enemies, they are still easy to handle at level 80-100. I don't see a need to nerf.

Just because you can handle the Comba/Scrambuses easily, doesn't mean everyone else can do the same.

Every player will have a different experience with those enemies; you can't just generalize everybody's thoughts with your own perspective.

Edited by Duality52
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5 hours ago, Duality52 said:

Just because you can handle the Comba/Scrambuses easily, doesn't mean everyone else can do the same.

Every player will have a different experience with those enemies; you can't just can't generalize everybody's thoughts with your own perspective.

The only thing that needs to change on these filthy bastards is the removal of buffs, debuffs can still be removed, but suddenly having your buffs stripped off with very little warning as they suddenly dynamic entry onto the scene is extremely cheap.

Preventing access to abilities, removing debuffs from allies and being high speed is more than enough, they also packing some pretty serious firepower sometimes too. Buff removal needs to stop.

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15 hours ago, Checht said:

Define high level. I am arguing all these points with the current "endgame" at around level 80-100. If these enemies need to be at high levels, let's say level 150+, to be enough of a threat, they are not overpowered to begin with, are they?

And yes, I do play high levels, I've reached 110 minutes on Mot with Volt, where enemies scaled up to level 300, and the reason we extracted was because my friends have already ran out of Axi relics to open. However, I don't enjoy it, because the difficulty purely comes from enemies being able to one-shot you, and players rely mostly on brainless abilities like CC-lock or invis to survive. I'd much prefer the game to be balanced at around level 80-100, where players can still respond to attacks. Thus, I've been arguing with level 80-100 enemies in mind.

Did you even noticed that over the course of this topic you contradicted yourself at least 4 times? 

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4 minutes ago, Meowfied said:

dargyn pilots in poe. ffs theyre just too op even theyre shooting from like 70m away

They aren't too bad compared to most other things on the Plains. They tend to just chuck a straight line air strike at you most of the time before making a wide circle back and doing the same thing, Nothing a roll dodge, blocking or defensive/evasive abilities can't handle. I get where you're coming from though, Bounty 5 with support frames can leave you pretty open to them, especially during Revives or if 2 or more followed you to a Drone or bomb collar hack :/

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)Lightning Silvr said:

They aren't too bad compared to most other things on the Plains. They tend to just chuck a straight line air strike at you most of the time before making a wide circle back and doing the same thing, Nothing a roll dodge, blocking or defensive/evasive abilities can't handle. I get where you're coming from though, Bounty 5 with support frames can leave you pretty open to them, especially during Revives or if 2 or more followed you to a Drone or bomb collar hack :/

nono i mean the pilots, after the dargyn destroyed. 1 hit shield gone, 2nd hit dead

Edited by Meowfied
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Just now, (XB1)Lightning Silvr said:

Wait what??? They can do that? I mean normally I blow up the dargyn then finish off the pilot while they're falling using Akstiletto or my Tigris so I haven't really noticed this

mm yea they can, usually ppl dont notice because they fell and need time to get up and get killed before they can. but if they fell far far away and you walked away, later they will magically find u and 2-shot you from nowhere.. :(

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4 minutes ago, Meowfied said:

mm yea they can, usually ppl dont notice because they fell and need time to get up and get killed before they can. but if they fell far far away and you walked away, later they will magically find u and 2-shot you from nowhere.. :(

Sounds broken as hell. Might have to test this myself later today...you're sure it was a Dargyn Pilot? Not a random Ballista quickscoping you or a random Lancer?

Edited by (XB1)Lightning Silvr
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Just now, (XB1)Lightning Silvr said:

Sounds broken as hell. Might have to test this myself later today...you're sure it was a Dargyn Pilot? Not a random Ballista quickscoping you or a random Lancer?

surely not, happened many times to me :/

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aye, Napalms have an AoE that is MASSIVELY larger than the VFX for their Firebomb projectile.
if you scaled the Projectile up to match the AoE size of their Firebomb, it would be clipping through walls all the time because the Radius is huge.

Bombard Missiles are basically stealth missiles. you can't hear them coming unless the Bombard is literally the only Enemy on the map. Tusk Bombards solved that problem though.... you can definitely hear their Rocket Launchers. but Bombard Missiles are still advanced stealth technology.
(some of the Modular Corpus Enemies have the same problem in part - stealth missiles that deal very high Damage. you can only hear them firing their Detron Missiles if you're close by, the Missiles themselves are basically silent)

Damage Scaling of some Enemies don't match their Combat role, XP value, Weapons they have Equipped, or the other Enemies around them.

  • normal Shield Lancers have Vipers but deal more Damage than like 4 Elite Lancers put together does? that doesn't make sense. same goes for the Viper Equipped Arid Seekers.
    • Kuva Shield Lancers are more reasonable, sorta. while the Damage is a bit alarming it's atleast the right type of Weapon for that. though you could probably reduce their Rate of Fire a bit.
  • Detron Missile Equipped Modular Corpus deal the same or more Damage per Shot than Bombards, yet fire in clusters of.... actually how many is that? 6? 8?
  • Scorches got fixed, but Hyekka Masters did not.
  • Kuva Guardians have an Attack Rate that is slightly faster than the Recovery Animation. meaning if one cheats and like, charges directly backwards to an unsuspecting Player, or jumps through the ceiling to smash an unsuspecting Player, they can be almost stunlocked forever until they get lucky with spamming movement keys to hopefully get the necessary movement started before another Knockdown hits.
  • Ancient Disruptors drain Energy as a Percentage of their Damage. meaning higher Level ones can take >1000 (so as far as we're concerned, infinity) Energy in a single hit. or any of the Enemies buffed around them. why it isn't a fixed Percentage of the Energy Bar idunno.
    • and it's not even the Damage the Enemy actually deals...
  • Mutalist Power Cell Carriers apparently intentionally had their Toxin Sniper Rifle converted into a Toxin Burst Sniper Rifle. effectively quadrupled Fire Rate but unchanged Damage. pick one or the other, guys.

Enemies with Special Abilities (so yno, a lot of them). mainly Grapple Hook sort of Abilities but it affects all Enemies. if their Special Ability is off Cooldown, and the targeted Enemy is within the appropriate place to activate their Ability, they will always use it, instantly. that ofcourse is what leads to getting Grapplehooked before you even see that Enemy, or hit by Special Abilities over and over one after another, Et Cetera.
you'd actually buff Enemies in part if this was addressed, as a group of 20 Ancients or Heavy Gunners wouldn't all blow their Special Ability at the same time and waste it on the Player. instead only one of them would use it at a time and the rest could still use theirs....
also Shield Lancers are still missing their Cooldown on the Shield Bash Ability - it had a Cooldown for years and suddenly didn't several months ago.
and Modular Corpus Auras while fine in general, as has been a complaint for quite some time, lack any sort of Telegraph.

the Juggernaut should have its other Abilities given back (why did 90% of its Abilities apparently get removed???). the only problem, and what has always been the problem, was the Shotgun Ability that would get fixed and get unfixed a week or two later. taking full Damage if you get hit by any number of Pellets, shooting through walls, that sort of stuff was what made Juggernaut problematic. because that Ability was constantly broken.

i don't remember anything else off the top of my head. a lot of Enemies, i don't necessarily remember them all staring at the Forums rather than when playing.

 

On 4/11/2018 at 1:09 AM, Xzorn said:

 

  • Kuva Heavy Gunners need to bother with charging Drakoon at times otherwise they're not very dangerous.
  • Corrupted Crewman could use a decrease in damage output.
  •  
  • Prod Crewman need a speed increase or gap closing improvement. They're not dangerous at all.
  • Infested Crawlers should not be Eximus.
  •  
  • Railgun Moa should not have infinite Punch-Through but instead do more damage.
  •  
  • Volatile Runner should be Volatile and actually do notable damage.

 

hmm, Charging their Drakgoon, interesting. that would give them long Range effectiveness, though i'm not sure it they're supposed to be a dedicated Close Range Unit with that Weapon (because the Weapon does do a lot of Damage, so long as you're close - i think you alluded to finding that out already though, hehe)

i think i'd prefer lower Accuracy for Corrupted Crewman myself if something was to be adjusted.

i mean, that's why Prod Crewman are phased out at mid Level (15? 20? one of those i don't remember). okay for Excalinewb but not dangerous for anyone else.
is that for Codex reasons? Crawlers don't Spawn above Lv40 thesedays, so for combat performance reasons they do get phased out to make the Faction harder already ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

while i do remember the dark days of Railgun MOA's oneshotting Players from two Tiles away through all of the walls - their Targeting Range (and probably require LoS if i was to guess) thesedays makes them pretty reasonable i think? their Accuracy is even... sorta comical at most Ranges. a constant potential threat but also generally not dangerous most of the time. but holds that potential, especially since they do deal fairly substantial Damaage. idk i think that's interesting. 

would you settle for moderate Damage and a decent Chance for Knockdown or Stagger? 

- - - - - 

 

@Checht as noted already, it's not about making Enemies easy - but being fair for the most part. Enemies that are cheating aren't difficult. the ideal for every Video Game is everybody abides by the same rules and laws. the same rules apply to both Players and the Enemy.
that doesn't mean every game should be Dork Souls* - it just means every game should be consistent and not be too lax or too tight on anything in the game. because that's how you create difficult situations that are rewarding to overcome. otherwise you have what we have now in the game - bland and generally uninteresting situations because Skill is actively punished while Idling is encouraged more and more.
partly because Idling is more efficient(and always has been, but it continues to get more and more efficient) but also because the game punishes Players that don't cheat (whether that be Abilities/things that turn off all Enemies forever or delete them before they can cheat on the Player). that's just objectively a much less satisfying and meaningful Gameplay experience than the alternative. so everybody loses, including people that say they like it that way. you can feel powerful and have powerful things while still have interesting engagements.

 

*:though they do a relatively good job of 'everyone lives by the same rules' - Dork Souls isn't perfect either though and there's an attack from an Enemy here and there that has Range or Damage or Timing that feels quite unfair amidst many that are excellent.
in particular of what i've played in Dork Souls III so far (lots of games, time has to get split up - though i've seen quite a few areas by now and done all of the optional Bosses), Ravenous Crystal Lizards are probably still my favorite Enemies in the game. the attacks are animated clearly and don't all but teleport part way through the Animation, they have varied Attack styles that keep you constantly on your toes, they deal fairly substantial Damage so getting hit is super undesired - but all in all they're extremely fair while being fairly complex (which makes them difficult to Kill smoothly).
they and their attacks also look wicked awesome. a front cover sort of Enemy to showcase what the franchise has to offer, in my opinion. and why i applaud that there's one in an optional area in the Tutorial section honestly - a Player can instantly see an outstanding example of an Enemy. i happily Killed that before leaving the tutorial area for the first time. took a while with starter gear but it was very fun and because the attacks didn't pull any :| tricks, i died once or twice but Killed it flawlessly after that.

Edited by taiiat
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3 hours ago, (XB1)Lightning Silvr said:

Wait what??? They can do that? I mean normally I blow up the dargyn then finish off the pilot while they're falling using Akstiletto or my Tigris so I haven't really noticed this

The Darygn Pilots use the Kraken (the two-burst pistol), which is identical to the ones used by Seekers (Kuva, Tusk). The issue is that pistol can easily outdamage even Grineer weapons like the Karak and even the Heavy Gunner's Gorgon in a short period.

Seekers, Shield Lancers, the Darygn Pilots and to a lesser extent, the Tusk Mortar Bombard, all have this absurd burst damage that can kill you faster than a Heavy Gunner at around even the level 40s, which makes no sense due to them being support units.

Edited by Duality52
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14 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

The Darygn Pilots use the Kraken (the two-burst pistol), which is identical to the ones used by Seekers (Kuva, Tusk). The issue is that that pistol can easily outdamage even Grineer weapons like the Karak and even the Heavy Gunner's Gorgon in a short period.

Seekers, Shield Lancers, the Darygn Pilots and to a lesser extent, the Tusk Mortar Bombard, all have this absurd burst damage that can kill you faster than a Heavy Gunner at around even the level 40s, which makes no sense due to them being support units.

OK wtf. The Kraken, as ok as it is in terms of Pistols, should never have a damage potential that high, even in comparison to other enemy weapons :/

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2 hours ago, taiiat said:

hmm, Charging their Drakgoon, interesting. that would give them long Range effectiveness, though i'm not sure it they're supposed to be a dedicated Close Range Unit with that Weapon (because the Weapon does do a lot of Damage, so long as you're close - i think you alluded to finding that out already though, hehe)

i think i'd prefer lower Accuracy for Corrupted Crewman myself if something was to be adjusted.

i mean, that's why Prod Crewman are phased out at mid Level (15? 20? one of those i don't remember). okay for Excalinewb but not dangerous for anyone else.
is that for Codex reasons? Crawlers don't Spawn above Lv40 thesedays, so for combat performance reasons they do get phased out to make the Faction harder already ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

while i do remember the dark days of Railgun MOA's oneshotting Players from two Tiles away through all of the walls - their Targeting Range (and probably require LoS if i was to guess) thesedays makes them pretty reasonable i think? their Accuracy is even... sorta comical at most Ranges. a constant potential threat but also generally not dangerous most of the time. but holds that potential, especially since they do deal fairly substantial Damaage. idk i think that's interesting. 

would you settle for moderate Damage and a decent Chance for Knockdown or Stagger? 

- - - - -

 

I'm not 100% what roll Kuva Heavy Gunners are meant to have. I can only say I fear a Shield Lancer over them at any range. I've done full melee runs in Kuva Survival and found the most dangerous up close or in general were Napalms > Shield Lancer's Marelok > Trooper's Hek. The Heavy Gunner didn't even make top 3 against a melee build so if they're supposed to be close range Heavy units. Two medium/light units have them beat.

Drakgoon would certainty do a lot of damage changed up though it's a projectile so ideally if there's an audible sound que from their given direction and they don't use movement prediction; it would be acceptable. A lot of scaling problems in Warframe could be solved by giving the player a fair chance to avoid damage. It's not the one-shots that suck as much as the one-shot you couldn't do anything about.

Corrupted Crewman are in a weird place. It's a shotgun so obviously it should hurt up close but they can also end up killing you with a single pellet and the spread covers a huge area which reduced accuracy might make even more problematic. Maybe lowering their attack range in general so they don't just try to cover the screen in glowing yellow pellets. Right now they end up one of the most if not THE most dangerous enemy in the Void which is a little silly.

In terms of map progression I'm pretty sure you're right on Prod Crewman but if you happen to be doing a long run on the planets they spawn in they will still spawn though in lesser amounts as other enemies take their place. My biggest concern with Crawler Eximus is they often go idle or get stuck somewhere and drain your energy until you take a moment and go hunt them down. It's sometimes because of how an Osprey drops them off though I'm not 100% if those can be Eximus when spawned.

Railgun Moa do miss a comical amount but RNG one-shots just have to go. All of them. They do need line of sight these days but enemies with a charge up attack like them can keep target for up to 3 seconds after losing line of sight which can effectively punish a player for taking cover. It works similarly to Mesa's Peacemaker. I thought of going back and saying something like a wider beam to make them harder to dodge but I think a Stagger or Knockdown is a better idea. I'm not sure if you meant that for Volatile Runners or not. With them it's players using anti knockdown/CC tactics to deal with Infested hooks so runners just end up as background noise. Perhaps just increasing their speed a bit would help.

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Nullicancer projector drones are far too tanky (something like 10x the HP of the crewman which carries it), and their hitbox is far too large when they're sitting on the crewman's head. This results in you battering down the shield, and then spending ages standing in front of the crewman itself flailing ineffectively against the drone with your melee weapon until it finally pops.

They need to be not targettable when sitting on the crewman's head, and they could really do with a HP reduction.

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4 hours ago, Duality52 said:

The Darygn Pilots use the Kraken (the two-burst pistol), which is identical to the ones used by Seekers (Kuva, Tusk). The issue is that pistol can easily outdamage even Grineer weapons like the Karak and even the Heavy Gunner's Gorgon in a short period.

Seekers, Shield Lancers, the Darygn Pilots and to a lesser extent, the Tusk Mortar Bombard, all have this absurd burst damage that can kill you faster than a Heavy Gunner at around even the level 40s, which makes no sense due to them being support units.

Oh the Seekers, those guys can do a good amount of damage to your health even in low level. Napalm would always be my worst enemy. He can literally melt you at close range at lvl 125.

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9 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I'm not 100% what roll Kuva Heavy Gunners are meant to have. I can only say I fear a Shield Lancer over them at any range. I've done full melee runs in Kuva Survival and found the most dangerous up close or in general were Napalms > Shield Lancer's Marelok > Trooper's Hek. The Heavy Gunner didn't even make top 3 against a melee build so if they're supposed to be close range Heavy units. Two medium/light units have them beat.

Drakgoon would certainty do a lot of damage changed up though it's a projectile so ideally if there's an audible sound que from their given direction and they don't use movement prediction; it would be acceptable. A lot of scaling problems in Warframe could be solved by giving the player a fair chance to avoid damage. It's not the one-shots that suck as much as the one-shot you couldn't do anything about.

 

Corrupted Crewman are in a weird place. It's a shotgun so obviously it should hurt up close but they can also end up killing you with a single pellet and the spread covers a huge area which reduced accuracy might make even more problematic. Maybe lowering their attack range in general so they don't just try to cover the screen in glowing yellow pellets. Right now they end up one of the most if not THE most dangerous enemy in the Void which is a little silly.

 

Railgun Moa do miss a comical amount but RNG one-shots just have to go. All of them. They do need line of sight these days but enemies with a charge up attack like them can keep target for up to 3 seconds after losing line of sight which can effectively punish a player for taking cover. It works similarly to Mesa's Peacemaker. I thought of going back and saying something like a wider beam to make them harder to dodge but I think a Stagger or Knockdown is a better idea.

mmh since it flies at a middling speed a Charge Shot may be fine. their Accuracy at point blank could be tightened if you had to as well.

sure, i'll take Crewman not firing at things that are too far away for their Spread to atleast get a decent hit on.

lots of ways to skin a cat so my 5 second suggestion would be... fires a Beam with width, but can't change Aim while Charging or only slightly.
while being able to shoot through anything isn't really necessary i would agree - they definitely should still be able to pierce thin cover/walls. and their space magic nature letting them pierce Snowglobe&co. (as far as i remember, hasn't changed IIRC) is also a good thing i think, since there's not many of them and they stand still with a distinct Charging sound.

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