Health Conversion Should NOT Exist

[JalakBali]

Wait, why does this mod "should not exist" simply because it's very good on Nekros and Oberon? Syndicate mods are good for particular warframes too... those shouldn't exist too?

 

If your idea is actually "change the game so this mod is useful in all situations" then you're advocating this to be a mandatory mod. Because the effect of this mod is very, very good. And if it could be applied all the time by any frame, then it would rank up there with Serration, Hornet Strike, etc, as a must have (read: mandatory) mod in any frame.

[Doomsknightmare]

2 hours ago, Get_Singed said:

It is actually very easy to kill enemies in high levels with Reckoning if you've built Oberon correctly as you can strip all armor permanently off of enemies with 1 or 2 casts. Assuming some efficiency, it's very easy to spam Reckoning for permanent crowd control of all enemies and an abundance of health orbs.

None of the complaints posted by the OP are a reason for this mod to not exist. It's good on Nekros and Oberon, and I also use it on Nidus and Inaros in certain situations, and it's useful for arena type maps too since there are always guaranteed health orb spawn locations. It's also a nice mod to throw into any Warframe build when you know you will have a Nekros on your team, like in endless farming missions. Just because it's a niche mod and you can't think of all of its potential uses that doesn't mean it should be removed from the game.

May I ask what's your definition of "high level" ? I mean it's at least Sortie 3 and Kuva Flood level, and it's very impractical to use a Health Conversion build for Oberon :

1.You wanna reach at least 170% strength to 100% strip enemies' armor with 2 casts of Reckoning with [Transient Fortitude] + [Power Drift]  

2.You need [Stretch] to maximize the range of Hallowed Ground + Reckoning  

3.You need [Streamline] + [Fleeting Expertise] + [Primed Flow] to keep spamming Reckoning to strip armor and kill (good luck with that, it took about 10 casts to kill a armorless lv 80 corrupted bombard and 20 casts to kill a armorless lv 80 corrupted heavy gunner lol; it may take less casts to kill Corpus, but due to Damage 2.0 it will also take many casts to kill lv80+Infested)

4. You're gonna need [Vitality] + [Rage] or [Hunter Adrenaline] to keep you alive in high level and make sure you have enough energy to "spam" Reckoning as you mentioned.

5. Oops, no available slot for [Health Conversion] !

[Get_Singed]

4 minutes ago, Doomsknight said:

May I ask what's your definition of "high level" ? I mean it's at least Sortie 3 and Kuva Flood level, and it's very impractical to use a Health Conversion build for Oberon :

1.You wanna reach at least 170% strength to 100% strip enemies' armor with 2 casts of Reckoning with [Transient Fortitude] + [Power Drift]  

2.You need [Stretch] to maximize the range of Hallowed Ground + Reckoning  

3.You need [Streamline] + [Fleeting Expertise] + [Primed Flow] to keep spamming Reckoning to strip armor and kill (good luck with that, it took about 10 casts to kill a armorless lv 80 corrupted bombard and 20 casts to kill a armorless lv 80 corrupted heavy gunner lol; it may take less casts to kill Corpus, but due to Damage 2.0 it will also take many casts to kill lv80+Infested)

4. You're gonna need [Vitality] + [Rage] or [Hunter Adrenaline] to keep you alive in high level and make sure you have enough energy to "spam" Reckoning as you mentioned.

5. Oops, no available slot for [Health Conversion] !

First of all yes, I am referring to 80-100+ level enemies.

Second, I did not say you would do that on a build with Health Conversion, simply that it is easy to kill enemies with Reckoning even at high level. My general use end game Oberon build uses 235% range and only 110% ability strength, and I'm able to kill enemies with Reckoning by simply spamming it nonstop. I have another build for when I want to go more melee and less caster with 214% strength and only 100% range and I can kill enemies with Reckoning there too. I could easily substitute Health Conversion into either build by removing either Steel Fiber, Hunter Adrenaline or Primed Flow, since Health Conversion would flat out replace Steel Fiber for armor and energy issues can be mitigated with pizzas. Keep in mind you don't need to kill EVERY enemy with Reckoning to get health orbs to spawn, you can kill just the weakest enemies and they will drop health orbs too. Saying it takes a lot of casts to kill a level 80 corrupted bombard means nothing.

[Xzorn]

Oberon caps out around lvl 400 Solo Survival and around lvl 500 Solo Defense.

You don't need 170% Power Strength to strip armor in two hits if you're using CP. You only need Intensify. 117% exactly if I recall.

I wouldn't bother with more than Vitality on Oberon and use his CC + Phoenix Renewal to cover the rest. If you're going to stack armor for a brawler setup be prepared to use Guardian sets and an Ancient Healer. That's about his best options Solo. Health Conversion is in no way reliable enough for him.

In groups he has other options.

[Doomsknightmare]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

Oberon caps out around lvl 400 Solo Survival and around lvl 500 Solo Defense.

You don't need 170% Power Strength to strip armor in two hits if you're using CP. You only need Intensify. 117% exactly if I recall.

I wouldn't bother with more than Vitality on Oberon and use his CC + Phoenix Renewal to cover the rest. If you're going to stack armor for a brawler setup be prepared to use Guardian sets and an Ancient Healer. That's about his best options Solo. Health Conversion is in no way reliable enough for him.

In groups he has other options.

Exactly, Arcane Guardian is a much better choice than the impractical Health Conversion gimmick, and to be honest Reckoning's Health Orb drop mechanics just need to be reworked, since currently it serves little purpose : In low levels Reckoning kills fast but nobody needs a health orb, while in high level Reckoning's damage is too low to effectively make a kill, even with 200%+ strength.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 23 Stunden schrieb kgabor:

The armor bonus from HC would be a waste on top of Arcane Guardian though, at that point more armor doesn't make much of a difference in dr, Shield of Shadows does.

Just noticed they made guardian static rather percentuall armor. 

Still a kinda weak argument. As alternative to Guardian rather then stacking it, it is still viable af. If one got it, it can be replaced. But you know, that there's an arcane doesn't mean that armor in any form becomes redundant. I mean how often was ash criticized for his invisibility despise Arcane trickery beein a thing? You can do eather on him as well or combine it. Doesn't make duration mods useless, does it?

Edited April 16, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(XBOX)Stryke 07]

i love health conversion it is a main mod in my build, its always up and makes me tanky as f**k. But i main Nekros a lot. thing is, not all mods are great in all frames, but thats what helps set builds apart. both health conversion & equilibrium are pretty much only used in my nekros. I also have mods in other frames that only suit them helps keep variety. wouldn't be much fun if every warfare used the same build.

[kgabor]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Just noticed they made guardian static rather percentuall armor. 

Still a kinda weak argument. As alternative to Guardian rather then stacking it, it is still viable af. If one got it, it can be replaced. But you know, that there's an arcane doesn't mean that armor in any form becomes redundant. I mean how often was ash criticized for his invisibility despise Arcane trickery beein a thing? You can do eather on him as well or combine it. Doesn't make duration mods useless, does it?

The Shadows have way more utility than just a dr stat, they draw aggro and deal quite a bit of damage with high ability strength and don't need to be recast every half minute with more duration, since Arcane Guardian already gives that armor stat and for essentially free, it's more beneficial to focus on something else and yes, armor after a certain value becomes redundant as 3000 armor doesn't give much more dr than just half of that.

[BiancaRoughfin]

Spoiler

 

On 14/04/2018 at 11:52 PM, Descent-of-Damocles said:

Short Story: Health Conversion is almost virtually unusable unless you have nekros or oberon.

I just maxed my standing and redeemed a Health Conversion mod for the sake of not overflowing on standing. I noticed some problems with this mod:
1. It requires 15 drain at maxed rank and it is absolutely unreliable
2. It requires health orbs which does not drop from enemies. You must find wild animals, lockers, containers, use broken scepter gimmick or warframe abilities to acquire health orbs.
3. It stacks 3 times and loses a stack every 3 seconds upon getting hit. These INSANELY rare health orb bonuses get consumed every 3 seconds in practical use. 15 drain... plz
4. People only use this on oberon and nekros because these are the only frames able to reliably make health orbs. I guess trinity too, but she's already invulnerable...
5. You cannot consume a health orb unless your hp is not 100%. This makes sense, but if health conversion can gain a stack, it should consume it anyways.

Why are these problems?
To effectively use this, it must be nekros/oberon, or you must play with them in your squad. You can only find health orbs from lockers, containers, wild animals, broken scepter and warframe abilities when you are hopefully not at 100% hp. You better not take any dmg while you do this...

How I've tried to stretch the use case:
Rhino's 2 prevents stacks from being lost upon taking damage.
Use a rank 9 Primed Regen mod, KYS if you cannot control the dmg (trigger regen and sentinel is now 95%HP), or somehow hurt your sentinel to remove at least 51 hp so you can consume 3 health orbs even if you're at maxed hp.
Bring a broken scepter, and drain health orbs from enemies.
This is highly impractical! Why is this so hard to make it barely useful?

What others will think:
-Bring concealed explosives and lose out on your secondary weapon choice
-Bring broken scepter and lose out on your melee choice
-Bring lenz, or any self damaging weapon and lose out on primary weapon choice
-Bring nekros/oberon and lose out on warframe choice
-NOT USE THE MOD AND SAVE THE SLOT FOR LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE
-Make an expanding brain meme for the above (Drake meme auger pact NO | magnum force YES while you're at it)

My suggestions:
-Maybe mobs drop health orbs too? (A lot of players expected this to be a thing)
-Maybe instead of health orbs, change it to something that is dropped by mobs such as mods/ammo/energy?
-Maybe instead of consuming stacks on damage, change it to damage on HP so shields do not consume a stack.
-Maybe provide outright 1 stack guaranteed so the mod slot isn't entirely wasted for 15 drain, and stacks up an additional 2. ei, 450 armor anytime, get 1350 armor if you somehow gain 2 stacks. Otherwise this is an oberon/nekros exclusive mod... as it's useless for anything else at 15 drain

 

 

Only mod currently in the game that shouldnt exist is Maiming Strike. I agree it should only lose a charge when damage is done to health and it would open the mod for more Warframes to use.

[RistN]

Health conversion is mod that works good only with Nekros.Same thing could be said for Arcane Pulse too.

There is a lot of mods and other things like arcanes that are complete garbage and that no one wants to waste a slot on.So having a mod that only works good on one warframe and one of his builds is fine by me.

Energy conversation is the same to me.I like my own way of building warframes so I can use more than 1 ability and only usage for this mod is on active abilities like Embers WoF to eliminate the usage of Blind Rage.

If Health conversation was activated in some more simple way I think I wouldn't bother adding polarity to any of my warframe because of it and more so because it is a D polarity.

Edited April 16, 2018 by RistN

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor einer Stunde schrieb kgabor:

 and yes, armor after a certain value becomes redundant as 3000 armor doesn't give much more dr than just half of that.

Pre nerf ice chroma says hi.

[Hyohakusha]

You know, my Loki doesn't take advantage of Intesify, so lets remove it from the game.

There is nothing wrong with Health Conversion. Every mod doesn't need to work on every frame, and there's no reason to remove one because it doesn't function the way you want it to. 

[(XBOX)RPColten]

Agreed on the whole "shouldn't lose stacks on shield damage", otherwise it's just a niche mod.

However, just because the effect can be triggered most reliably with a Nekros, Oberon or Trinity doesn't mean you yourself must play as the mentioned Frames. A Nekros, Oberon or Trinity in your squad can create the health orbs for you. Maybe this makes Health Conversion a 'use when there is a Nekros' mod, but it still has a purpose that can be beneficial in the right circumstances.

Just because something is niche doesn't mean it is useless, broken or irrelevant.

[tucker_d_dawg]

Not every mod is good for every frame.  Why force a square peg in a round hole?

The mod is fine for niche uses.