Khora rant

[(XBOX)Nightseid]

14 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

You do know enemies caught in it have aggro put on them and enemies from outside will only fire at them , right? 

I know.

For me at least, thermatically the ability does not fit - 1,2,3 are moble offensive abilities then you have strangledome an defensive-like ability. Frost makes sense he slows enemies, and vauban lays down traps. I feel like Gara suffers from the same issues.

This is simply my opinions and maybe folks have managed to find perfect play style.

[Threa]

I read through your post and some of the replies and I have to disagree with many of you. She is not broken but she is not fine either. I'm genuinely happy if some of you feel good about her current state and have made her work for you by matching her to your playstyle. In her current state, she just isn't sufficient nor worth bringing unless you don't care much about your performance or min/maxing like I do.

If they wanted to make her a low damage/cc frame then her CC wouldn't feel clunky and the interactions wouldn't feel forced as they do now. Her abilities should work well independently and really shine when combined, I call that synergy. As others have said, the best CC is death so for the star chart, the plains, and even lower sorties she is fine but in more challenging content I expect more from her and from any new Warframe. 

She can provide some support through Venair's healing posture which I like. However, she needs to excel at something, jack-of-all-trades Warframes are not sufficient in my book. I can respect that for some of you, she is complete and fine but for some of us in the player base, we have higher expectations for new Warframes, especially when frames like Gara, Octavia, and Harrow have raised the bar so high. I would highly suggest some of you take her into higher level content and then reflect again on if her damage or healing and CC is enough. Any frame, including Khora, can work in sorites and Onslaught but that doesn't mean they can shine, or excel in there. She needs a lot of work and I just hope all of you are willing to let a decent Warframe become great by pushing DE to make her great. 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

3 hours ago, NPC said:

Always when I see these rant walls of texts I can't help but wonder about how can this be so important to someone. Beats me. 

If I don't like something I move on. I don't understand the "I don't like this so it should be changed" selfish mentality. 

When something has taken a good few years of your life it tends to become something important to you rather than just a hobby

3 hours ago, Madway7 said:

Ok... you should have put this in their comment section where it probably belongs.

 

I have.

3 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Death is best CC tho.

True.  But cc shouldn't be written off if it's not killing everything.  And it's why warframe is about player choice and not optimal behavior.

3 hours ago, Sajochi said:

This feels familiar cough Mag cough. honestly, most warframe CC's are morons that jump on the nearest hype or hate train. The ones that put effort and research into their stuff are overshadowed and that's the sad truth.

Mag is in my top 5 frames.  I don't player her nearly as much as I want simply because people dislike my bubbles.  So probably going to pick up that new polarize augment so people don't screech at me mid mission.

2 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Soooo this isn't actually a rant, it's a meta-complaint?

I can't decide whether that makes it better or worse...

Meta complaints are just as bad and I do apologize for it.  I really just needed to let it out.  Tried to be as constructive as possible.

2 hours ago, MarcusGraves said:

I don't like playing with one atm just cause the new dangling enemy effect on strangledome is super annoying if it catches a problematic enemy that needs to die, like a tanky energy leech eximus. Started shooting and it wildly bounces around making it take longer to get rid of, reminds me of the old zephyr tornado problem.

I really do hope they tone back the dangling physics some.  This was an issue with hydroid as well and i'm not sure why they didn't learn from that.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Meta complaints are just as bad and I do apologize for it.  I really just needed to let it out.  Tried to be as constructive as possible.

I'll let you off. 

You at least raised some points, rather than complaining and only complaining. So props for that.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

8 minutes ago, Threa said:

I read through your post and some of the replies and I have to disagree with many of you. She is not broken but she is not fine either. I'm genuinely happy if some of you feel good about her current state and have made her work for you by matching her to your playstyle. In her current state, she just isn't sufficient nor worth bringing unless you don't care much about your performance or min/maxing like I do.

If they wanted to make her a low damage/cc frame then her CC wouldn't feel clunky and the interactions wouldn't feel forced as they do now. Her abilities should work well independently and really shine when combined, I call that synergy. As others have said, the best CC is death so for the star chart, the plains, and even lower sorties she is fine but in more challenging content I expect more from her and from any new Warframe. 

She can provide some support through Venair's healing posture which I like. However, she needs to excel at something, jack-of-all-trades Warframes are not sufficient in my book. I can respect that for some of you, she is complete and fine but for some of us in the player base, we have higher expectations for new Warframes, especially when frames like Gara, Octavia, and Harrow have raised the bar so high. I would highly suggest some of you take her into higher level content and then reflect again on if her damage or healing and CC is enough. Any frame, including Khora, can work in sorites and Onslaught but that doesn't mean they can shine, or excel in there. She needs a lot of work and I just hope all of you are willing to let a decent Warframe become great by pushing DE to make her great. 

Fine implies she's good where she's at right now which i'm certainly not stating.  It's more or less me arguing against the "uinwefiuaneeriufn Khora sux because she's not nuking" or "wuenfeirfunerfen Khora sux cause no exalted whip" plus There are some aspects of her kit people actually are un aware of.  like her dome bumping damage for all and ensnare being able to store propagations.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

I'll let you off. 

You at least raised some points, rather than complaining and only complaining. So props for that.

Thanks Based Monkey god <3

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

People do this any time there's a non nuke frame so ehh just ignore it n prove em wrong by bringin khora into the tough stuff.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

5 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Ensnare works with allies better.

Because a CC that only lasts for about 2 seconds when your ally sees a glowing enemy that isn't moving and deletes it with his Tigris Prime (or any other one-hit-kill weapon) is clearly good for group content.

Now, if every enemy it spread to counted as a new spread point, then maybe it would be worth using, as it would last for its full duration unless there were no enemies nearby.

Edited April 30, 2018 by -AoN-CanoLathra-

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

3 hours ago, Remedyheart said:

Lol. Silly. Trying to turn a support frame into a dps frame. Here's a good question for you. When was the last time we got a dedicated support frame? 

 

It's been a while is the answer right there.

If by 'dedicated support' you mean a mix of Support and CC, then the answer is Harrow. He has no damage in his kit, and can provide CC as well as provide health/energy/invulnerability/crit chance.

If by 'dedicated support' you mean a frame with Support and nothing else, then I don't think we have had one of those, ever. Even Trinity can be a DPS or a Boss-Killer.

[Remedyheart]

24 minutes ago, Roll__Fizzlebeef said:

I understand what you are trying to say, but in the end, you are the one targeting posters. I posted a harmless Bingo card joke, which is a running gag on this forum. In hindsight, I actually did fail to see that the post wasn't actually complaining about Khora. But thats just because I assumed it was based on the title being "Khora rant." 

And I was asking not to post such jokes in my own comedic way.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Remedyheart
Addition

[Remedyheart]

26 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

If by 'dedicated support' you mean a mix of Support and CC, then the answer is Harrow. He has no damage in his kit, and can provide CC as well as provide health/energy/invulnerability/crit chance.

If by 'dedicated support' you mean a frame with Support and nothing else, then I don't think we have had one of those, ever. Even Trinity can be a DPS or a Boss-Killer.

Good point. I stand corrected. Though she is a very healthy addition to that role as well dontcha think?

[Gharsan]

She is a jack-of-all trade. She can CC, she can do decent damage if modded right AND (what many people forget to mention) has a great survivability. Those CC, Venari cat, Venari cat healing, and armor boost? You rarely die even on Sortie T3. This make her quite unique and fun to play in her own way.

Not all frames have to be fully dmg or CC. I don't want another RQ Banshee or Hysteria Valkyr. She is more than capable if modded and used right in right circumstances. She's more "nuanced" frame, and I like that.

I have been reading a lot of negative feedback, and while some of them were constructive, a lot of them stem from a "meta" mindset that she is not one of those "cheese-ables" in a lazy way.

Is she perfect? No, she can be improved here and there. May be a base radius increase for strangledome and ways to utilize Venari a bit more. But she is NOT even close to being as bad as a lot of players (most of them who sound like they haven't even used her yet and just there for the hate-train) describe her to be. Then again, Khora in this forum as of now, has already crossed the border from critical feedback to nit-picking just to hate.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Gharsan

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

1 hour ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Because a CC that only lasts for about 2 seconds when your ally sees a glowing enemy that isn't moving and deletes it with his Tigris Prime (or any other one-hit-kill weapon) is clearly good for group content.

Now, if every enemy it spread to counted as a new spread point, then maybe it would be worth using, as it would last for its full duration unless there were no enemies nearby.

In comparison to nidus's group thing yes.  it's more team friendly.  

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

1 hour ago, Remedyheart said:

Good point. I stand corrected. Though she is a very healthy addition to that role as well dontcha think?

I wouldn't know. I primarily run her as a Tank due to it being the only build I could actually get comfortable with. Full Health, Full Armor, Full Efficiency (because that affects Venari's damage for some reason), and Hunter Recovery+Pack Leader on Venari and a Smeeta. Run with good weapons and you are almost impossible to kill.

I only use her 4 and 2 as emergency CC when I need to command Venari to hit something to heal me.

[Remedyheart]

2 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

I wouldn't know. I primarily run her as a Tank due to it being the only build I could actually get comfortable with. Full Health, Full Armor, Full Efficiency (because that affects Venari's damage for some reason), and Hunter Recovery+Pack Leader on Venari and a Smeeta. Run with good weapons and you are almost impossible to kill.

I only use her 4 and 2 as emergency CC when I need to command Venari to hit something to heal me.

I only go full efficiency if I wanna cheese defense missions and interceptions. Go full ranhe efficency and set Venari to attack. Enemies walk it and venari kills them. You literally stand still and semi afk the entire time. Though it only works on low level missions.

[zNightWolfz]

Nothing wrong with khora at all she is fine,,

 

[LupisV0lk]

Greetings fellow cult of Khora member, I myself found the whole community reception to the Khora update to have been rather nihilistic and negative. For valid and not so valid reasons. *cough* Onslaught bugs *cough*

The youtuber community spurred this on since Khora doesn't fit the consigned meta mould. From the few i'm subscribed to, Rob from AGGP was the only one who didn't go on a negative tirade with the entire update.

As a Cult of Khora member myself i am finding her to be a strange frame to build for. Am half tempted to just go full tank mode and focus solely on survival. It seems that many had a wrong vision of what she was and we're not happy with the final product. I too think she could do with some tweaking (like all frames) but i don't think she's this "mastery fodder" like some "arbiters of the community" have proclaimed.

Edited May 1, 2018 by LupisV0lk

[WhiteCr0w]

10 minutes ago, LupisV0lk said:

I too think she could do with some tweaking (like all frames) but i don't think she's this "mastery fodder" like some "arbiters of the community" have proclaimed.

Those claims are ridiculous. I really hope DE don't take such criticisms to heart, or even lend them much credit at all for that matter. This game for whatever reason compared to most has one of the worst loud minorities I have ever encountered, and I'm not sure what it stems from. It mainly crops up on these forums and youtube, as the Reddit community for the game is far more constructive and empathetic.

It's just embarrassing to witness sometimes. You have a company of people pouring their hearts and souls into something, with countless hours of blood, sweat and tears, and your loudest form of feedback are garbage posts on the forums rife with thoughtless complaints and entitlement. Some people here have become so jaded and spoiled they don't even realize; the amount of quick fixes and iterations DE make in response to feedback go unappreciated.

[LupisV0lk]

1 minute ago, WhiteCr0w said:

Those claims are ridiculous. I really hope DE don't take such criticisms to heart, or even lend them much credit at all for that matter. This game for whatever reason compared to most has one of the worst loud minorities I have ever encountered, and I'm not sure what it stems from. It mainly crops up on these forums and youtube, as the Reddit community for the game is far more constructive and empathetic.

It's just embarrassing to witness sometimes. You have a company of people pouring their hearts and souls into something, with countless hours of blood, sweat and tears, and your loudest form of feedback are garbage posts on the forums rife with thoughtless complaints and entitlement. Some people here have become so jaded and spoiled they don't even realize; the amount of quick fixes and iterations DE make in response to feedback go unappreciated.

Tis be the way of internet forums really.

You think it's bad here. Try MechWarrior Online's forum and be A. a Clanner (one of the two main factions) and B. tell people that maybe it's not the weapons that are OP but thier lack of skill. You'll be roasted for days.

Another one is Elite: Dangerous. It's PvE community is just THE worse. They're so hard up on PvPers that they'll happily dox them, for the crime of engaging in PvP against a PvE player who's in the open game world.

Quite frankly i think some people just want to play their way and so they try to enforce a status quo.

[WhiteCr0w]

7 minutes ago, LupisV0lk said:

Quite frankly i think some people just want to play their way and so they try to enforce a status quo.

Yeah, that's extremely common here. You have a group with this personalized notion of what "endgame" is, and should be in Warframe. In their tunnel vision no other form of endgame is viable or worth while, and anything that isn't what they want is abject failure and incompetence on behalf of DE. It's beyond ridiculous, and I'm quite sure they don't even read their own posts or consider what it is they are asking for.

[LupisV0lk]

29 minutes ago, WhiteCr0w said:

Yeah, that's extremely common here. You have a group with this personalized notion of what "endgame" is, and should be in Warframe. In their tunnel vision no other form of endgame is viable or worth while, and anything that isn't what they want is abject failure and incompetence on behalf of DE. It's beyond ridiculous, and I'm quite sure they don't even read their own posts or consider what it is they are asking for.

Yeah, this update brought it to a whole new level.

I mean just look at the reaction to the new "end game" mod.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

10 hours ago, LupisV0lk said:

Greetings fellow cult of Khora member, I myself found the whole community reception to the Khora update to have been rather nihilistic and negative. For valid and not so valid reasons. *cough* Onslaught bugs *cough*

The youtuber community spurred this on since Khora doesn't fit the consigned meta mould. From the few i'm subscribed to, Rob from AGGP was the only one who didn't go on a negative tirade with the entire update.

As a Cult of Khora member myself i am finding her to be a strange frame to build for. Am half tempted to just go full tank mode and focus solely on survival. It seems that many had a wrong vision of what she was and we're not happy with the final product. I too think she could do with some tweaking (like all frames) but i don't think she's this "mastery fodder" like some "arbiters of the community" have proclaimed.

I'm like 90% sure it's because khora had an exalted weapon at some point which the community goes bonkers for.  and since it got removed everyone's just been rather pissy about it.  AGGP is pretty much the only sensible content creator on a consistent basis that I watch aside from h3adshot and distant observer.  Potato is usually pretty fair but his recent video about khora annoyed me because of his ignorant claim about bastelle being better than strangle dome.  I get that the guy only scripts for like 7 minutes and he kind of just blitzes through with short quick comments because his channel isn't really about major open discussion.  He's a short and sweet kinda guy.  but it still annoyed me.  But he's not the one who pissed me off the most.  But i'm not going to call him out.  But i'm pretty sure anyone could hazard a safe guess on who it is.  Dude's pretty much negative about any rework or new frame that's released unless it's stupidly strong for no reason what so ever.

[IceColdHawk]

11 hours ago, LupisV0lk said:

Rob from AGGP was the only one who didn't go on a negative tirade with the entire update.

He never does. Except when people disagree with him, then he goes on a negative tirade. So i'm not sure if that's a point we can go for.

11 hours ago, LupisV0lk said:

The youtuber community spurred this on since Khora doesn't fit the consigned meta mould.

Pretty much sums things up. She has CC and damage that are so mediocre, that you might as well forget that they exist. Granted, her 1 can deal some nice damage depending on your melee mods but then again, this is just another damage dealing melee scaling first ability so nothing special. Moving on to strangledome, it doubles the damage that caught enemies can take but for what? You are barely even able to hit their head anymore since they're awkwardly laying on the ground or dangling in the air. This pretty much hinders the whole damage bonus to take effect. And venari? We all know in what kind of place pets currently are so i don't think i have to go very deep in here. At least pets 2.0 is in the works so that might change something up. Other than that, marking a single target to do some stuff in a horde game sounds kinda silly if you ask me.

It's not that she has to be meta. All that has to be done is to make sure that people don't think "Oh khora in my team, wasted team slot *sigh*". People would like to have another frame in their roster to play with and use without feeling they're just taking away a potential frame spot for nothing. Especially after that long content drought, i don't think it's too much to expect a fun AND good frame to have.

@WhiteCr0w Would you like to actually provide some arguments as to how khora should or should not be changed instead of just stomping the community away as "bad" and DE as always being perfect? You have a company of players pouring their hearts and souls into coming up with ideas and solutions on how to bring khora to a better spot, and yet you mark everything as being "thoughtless complaints and entitlement".

[Greedygreen]

She's extreemly grindy to make and FORMAte

First of all her parts have to be farmed in the Onslaught missions, and guess what 2 of her parts are in rotation C so minimum amount of zones you have to do to get all her parts is 16, while maximum can go from 100 to infinity

Secondly all her parts need kavat genetic code, and it is very painfull to try to farm them if you don't have the sands of inaros quest

Third her to have her in her best shape you will have to forma her kavat too which can add up to a pretty big amount of forma. But at least venari shares a potato with khora

 

All that grind make people a lot more judgementall tovard her, and i'm kinda not that surprised about all that backlash because of it

[Patzer]

Kind of like her but my biggest gripe is current synergy with Whipclaw and Strangledome.

"Crack Whipclaw on the dome to further damage any trapped enemies."

113980 Whipclaw crit => 193 damage (unmodified) to rest dangling enemies. Feels kind of pointless.