Melee: Present and Future goals!

[derLoko2]

i hope stance combo attacks will be get more useful, i never really used them because it didn't seem worth the effort...

In general, melee was too much button-mashing for my taste (button-mashing can be fun, but it shouldn't be as effective as it is)

[FreeWilliam]

1 hour ago, Sesaline said:

Yes, it does feel badass to slide through a mob that is busting up my team and making them start to sweat whether or not we can handle level 50 enemies.

Isn't it more fun to fight them all face to face instead of having them die several meters to the right while butt scooting past them?

I'm not saying that everything has to be in hugging distance (and melee should be just as viable as an Amprex or Ignis...we're taking more risks after all), rather that there's a middle ground and I'd rather the mobility be provided via. maneuvers while I'm standing tall and tearing through a crowd and feeling them push back.

[Sesaline]

50 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

Isn't it more fun to fight them all face to face instead of having them die several meters to the right while butt scooting past them?

I'm not saying that everything has to be in hugging distance (and melee should be just as viable as an Amprex or Ignis...we're taking more risks after all), rather that there's a middle ground and I'd rather the mobility be provided via. maneuvers while I'm standing tall and tearing through a crowd and feeling them push back.

Fun is subjective. For me, I enjoy quick melees and slide melee because it is a nice, smooth movement and transition between gunning, running, and slashing. 

Melee is good to a certain point, which is why I don't get this change. It seems like we're getting melee 3.0 to cater to people who A) don't have access to plat or the mods to do it, B) think it's cheesing, or C) find it boring that someone in the team can sweep down a mob of level 70s. Issues with all of these, imo, is that I do not play to satisfy someone else's idea of the proper way to play this game. People cheese with skills and guns constantly, and those are useful well beyond the scope of melee in endless missions. Also, melee is risk vs reward as compared to abilities and guns with range. 

You don't see players in 1hr, 2hr, 3hr+ survivals using melee. You just don't. And that's because of the high count of eximus units with debuffs and the AoE splash damage from their weapons being extremely dangerous. So at the end of the day, we're nerfing melee crit sliding to appease the players who are 'bored' of their teammates slashsliding in low level content. Frames are more effective than melee at those enemy level ranges. So why is this happening? Are AoE ability frames next? And after those are nerfed hard like Ember was, everyone will scrutinize the frames that weren't nerfed for being 'too good', 'op', etc.

Before you know it, we're all playing a dumbed down, boringframe. This game is supposed to be about slaying hordes and power tripping. And imo, if the team ultimately succeeds in the mission, then everyone wins. Melee 3.0 is literally mind boggling to me because aside from ripping the rug out from under those that enjoy it, they are doing it for .. what reason, exactly? To make low end content slower to progress through (I'd just bring Saryn or someone with AoE nukes for that then. Hell, and ignis wraith even) and melee in endgame more impossible than it already is?

 

Edited this to say that a one hit heavy depleting the combo meter in a horde style game is just insanity levels of counter-intuitive. Melee spam is no less a thing than skill spam, or weapon spam. I don't get upset with my teammate blasts everything in front of me with their arca plasmor or first skill. I don't whine if someone is doing well. I learn from them and let them continue doing their thing because obviously they are doing something right in that moment. A win is a win regardless, which is why all of this doesn't add up. Some special snowflakes want melee to stop being relevant so they can praise themselves when they have the orange kill count at the end of a mission. For me, it isn't about getting the most or performing the best out of everyone on my team; it's about enjoying myself and bringing what I can to the table to ensure that my team succeeds. Some people may get annoying with their slide attacks, some may get annoying with spraying their 6 forma ignis all over the map, and some may skill spam and kill things before you can even reach them. Unless DE removes all of these things, they shouldn't be biased about just melee to this degree, end of story. Without all three of these things, are we even playing Warframe anymore?

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

A little less spammy melee would feel nice. 

[FreeWilliam]

42 minutes ago, Sesaline said:

It seems like we're getting melee 3.0 to cater to people who A) don't have access to plat or the mods to do it, B) think it's cheesing, or C) find it boring that someone in the team can sweep down a mob of level 70s.

I actually find it boring to kill high level mobs without hitting them a few times, There's a variety of ways to handle them without sliding past them.  Like so.

I build so that I can go easy and just slow down if things are in 'instant one-shot' territory.  No reason to go all-out until people start getting killed, more fun to let the other Tenno play some. There are about five ways to melee in this game, not just one.

42 minutes ago, Sesaline said:

You don't see players in 1hr, 2hr, 3hr+ survivals using melee. You just don't.

I don't think anything that takes over an hour to get to should be a focus here. Most people don't do that, lots of people don't even have the option. 

31 minutes ago, (XB1)Architect Prime said:

A little less spammy melee would feel nice. 

Egads yes.  I mean, I'm having fun but having a hard time making more than two different maneuvers work consistently depending on the stance.  There are too many speed accelerators out there for timing-based maneuvers to work well.  I'm hoping we get button combos to add in new maneuvers.

I generally end up derping about and making my own fun (I love my Tiny Rumblers, they're my mini-bros!) while building so that if people want to stay longer I can keep up with the action (Generally a combination of rage+healing return+channeling with no combo counter duration support so that it goes away when the Eximus Units aren't around...I like feeling like I gave everyone a chance to hit me once or twice).  

Thanks to all the mobility there's still a lot to do, so even with only one or two options it's not like I'm feeling unstimulated (I LOVE Hieracon!  Lots of reasons to move around and if people hang around the enemies get really challenging), but I do admit I just ignore any 'pause' or 'hold' combo...they only happen by accident.  

Still, it can be fun!  (I'm nowhere near a decent computer this week...I'd record something better otherwise, but this approach has been working pretty well and feels decently interactive...I do tend to lean on whatever block combo my stance has though because after a while it's easier to move the mouse around while holding the right mouse button too...carpal tunnel is bad)

 

[Sesaline]

1 minute ago, FreeWilliam said:

I actually find it boring to kill high level mobs without hitting them a few times, There's a variety of ways to handle them without sliding past them.  Like so.

I build so that I can go easy and just slow down if things are in 'instant one-shot' territory.  No reason to go all-out until people start getting killed, more fun to let the other Tenno play some. There are about five ways to melee in this game, not just one.

 

See, here's the thing.. this is your preference. And it works for you, and it would work for me and many others if we wanted to do it too. Your preference is no less valid than mine or anyone else's. Letting the other Tenno play some is... I mean, I did mention that I only bust through with my melee when my team is really in trouble in a previous post. I respect my teammates. I ask before I go ham with Saryn on Hydron. There have been missions when I did not use her 4 even though I had rank 0 weapons equipped. I am observant and respectful of my team. Is everyone? No. No, they are not, and that's not a problem with the game; that's a problem with a player's own selfishness and lack of cooperation with their teammates/friends/colleagues/family/etc. DE cannot fix how a person is. No matter what they nerf, these people will always find another way to hog up all of the enemies for themselves.

Talking about end game does matter, because we are talking about an overhaul to an entire means of damage in this game. Melee is just as important as skills and guns. End game content is where we truly test the limits of builds. Running 5-15 minute defense/survival etc is not going to showcase anything special about your builds. This area of the game is no less important than the more commonly played ones, and that is where you have truly lost me in this brief conversation. You cannot omit an entire populace just because they are the minority. 

Balance is important. Some people hate slide critting. Some hate people who use long range, hard hitting guns. Some hate AoE nukeframes. None of these are less valid than the other. The balance comes into play when you start asking yourself how changing things would affect the overall game, and in my eyes this melee change is not conducive to a horde-style shooter. It will hinder melee in a way that could render it useless to those who enjoy testing end game limits, or even those who just wanted to get to extraction so they could start their 11th run for a specific drop. It's removing something that a lot of people enjoy and replacing it with another method that is nowhere near the same and very limiting.

[FreeWilliam]

1 hour ago, Sesaline said:

I am observant and respectful of my team. Is everyone? No. No, they are not, and that's not a problem with the game; that's a problem with a player's own selfishness and lack of cooperation with their teammates/friends/colleagues/family/etc. DE cannot fix how a person is. No matter what they nerf, these people will always find another way to hog up all of the enemies for themselves.

I think they're just trying to remove the temptation. 

It's easier to make a melee build that can destroy rooms with maiming strike than it is without but far from impossible, and really that's more of a 'nuke' approach than directly meleeing with an opponent...it just happens to use a melee weapon.  I saw pretty quickly why it was becoming unpopular and went in a different direction in groups.  

I've got plenty to be nervous about too.  Enduring Affliction is my go-to for handling 'extra hard' targets and I love Dispatch Overdrive...I've got no clue what's happening to them.

However, I DO see that there's a huge number of weapons and stances that are barely used and the range variance is a bit much.  It's very difficult to get much mobility with most stances (Hence the popularity of crit sliding as well as the stances that scale movement with attack speed like Tempo Royale and Final Harbinger) and that's at least as much of a factor as range. 

Melee 3.0 is IMHO an important step in Warframe's development and I don't think DE's taking it lightly.  People here are mostly trying to make sure their voices are heard, but change is part of the game and we need to accept that.

[SirSovereign]

5 hours ago, DreadWarlock said:

Combo is spent but it builds up much faster, normal melee will work wonders for status procs while Heavy attacks will kill. THis is what you guys are forgetting. Losing combo meter is only a problem when the combo meter takes whole centuries to fill up 

You dont lose combo where you actually have use for the combo counter lol... hopefully they keep the acolyte mods the same and then I'll just only use a heavy attack on bosses.

[Sesaline]

1 minute ago, FreeWilliam said:

I think they're just trying to remove the temptation. 

It's easier to make a melee build that can destroy rooms with maiming strike than it is without but far from impossible, and really that's more of a 'nuke' approach than directly meleeing with an opponent...it just happens to use a melee weapon.  I saw pretty quickly why it was becoming unpopular and went in a different direction in groups.  

I've got plenty to be nervous about too.  Enduring Affliction is my go-to for handling 'extra hard' targets and I love Dispatch Overdrive...I've got no clue what's happening to them.

However, I DO see that there's a huge number of weapons and stances that are barely used and the range variance is a bit much.  It's very difficult to get much mobility with most stances (Hence the popularity of crit sliding as well as the stances that scale movement with attack speed like Tempo Royale and Final Harbinger) and that's at least as much of a factor as range. 

Melee 3.0 is IMHO an important step in Warframe's development and I don't think DE's taking it lightly.  People here are mostly trying to make sure their voices are heard, but change is part of the game and we need to accept that.

See you in tomorrow's stream then! I'm not nervous about losing my melee playstyle as much as I seem to be. I just want some clear-cut answers as to why and what all will be changed, but tomorrow will hopefully shed some more light on these things. Now to see if they will be showcasing the new melee against only level 30-50 enemies in actual missions, or if they will do it in a controlled environment (simulacrum) against lower/higher level enemies. Personally I would like to see them test the new melee system against higher level enemies outside of the simulacrum to give the most realistic explanation and examples of how this will work.

[FreeWilliam]

See you in tomorrow's stream then! I'm not nervous about losing my melee playstyle as much as I seem to be.

Oh, I think we're all a bit nervous and riled up, this is a big change!

15 minutes ago, Sesaline said:

Now to see if they will be showcasing the new melee against only level 30-50 enemies in actual missions, or if they will do it in a controlled environment (simulacrum) against lower/higher level enemies.

One of my larger concerns about the changes is I'm not sure how the removal of the combo counter and channeling scaling will allow a build to engage with 20-40 level enemies AND 150-200 level enemies without either constantly one-shotting all the low level ones or else struggling against the higher level ones.  

We can't switch builds mid-mission after all, and I design my melee builds to get better the tougher the enemies get. 

I'm a bit worried about creating the opposite scenario, where we have to choose between

• Melee builds that aren't any fun until we've gone through several waves, or
• Melee builds that start out fun but fall apart far more quickly than they do now against stronger foes.

[ganjou234]

8 hours ago, Sesaline said:

Basically, why the heck is this necessary? Because some people get upset in PUBLIC queue about someone else outperforming others? Because they feel 'bored'? Well then maybe they need to get some better setups on their weapons and frames and stop crying because another person is having fun. Who cares about number of kills? Who freakin cares. If you do, then you need to reevaluate public queuing with the expectation that everyone should play as you deem fit. This is all ridiculous and very over the top. I hate manually using just the melee weapons in this game. They aren't fluid and most times doing this is what gets me killed, quite frankly. Making the combo meter deplete on one heavy attack is a terrible idea in both theory and practice.

What makes you assume that my setup isn't geared towards AOE and killing hordes? What makes you assume that my setup sucks? The only reason that the map nukers are out performing me is because they literally have to do 0 effort to do so.

The fact that a overly tuned and maxed out setup can be nullified by dumb things like Map Nuking Frames is a hint of bad design.

This is a horde shooter not a "AFK-they-die-around-me-hurr-durr-I'm-soo-OP". You're supposed to actually shoot and do something.

Who cares about number of kills?

You do know that this is also a shooter game. We play to kill and shoot things. WE HAVE TO KILL THINGS.

How can people play when everything in the entire damn map is gone before anyone even attempts to aim down sights?

How can people kill things when they're using fist weapons as opposed to whips, when whips are basically room wipers? "Well, hurr durr then dont use fist weapons hurr durr they suck hurr durr  follow whip meta lol".

In regards to melee, this is also a ninja-horde-hack-and-slash game not "beyblade-spin-to-win-macro-keybound-dumbness"

Melee 3.0 is the only way to make every melee weapon actually usable anywhere at any level, from fists to whips.

[Sesaline]

1 minute ago, ganjou234 said:

What makes you assume that my setup isn't geared towards AOE and killing hordes? What makes you assume that my setup sucks? The only reason that the map nukers are out performing me is because they literally have to do 0 effort to do so.

The fact that a overly tuned and maxed out setup can be nullified by dumb things like Map Nuking Frames is a hint of bad design.

This is a horde shooter not a "AFK-they-die-around-me-hurr-durr-I'm-soo-OP". You're supposed to actually shoot and do something.

Who cares about number of kills?

You do know that this is also a shooter game. We play to kill and shoot things. WE HAVE TO KILL THINGS.

How can people play when everything in the entire damn map is gone before anyone even attempts to aim down sights?

How can people kill things when they're using fist weapons as opposed to whips, when whips are basically room wipers? "Well, hurr durr then dont use fist weapons hurr durr they suck hurr durr  follow whip meta lol".

In regards to melee, this is also a ninja-horde-hack-and-slash game not "beyblade-spin-to-win-macro-keybound-dumbness"

Melee 3.0 is the only way to make every melee weapon actually usable anywhere at any level, from fists to whips.

Who hurt you?

 

Zero effort is a lie. I play a bunch of frames. I have 26 unlocked so far and enjoy them all in their own regards, besides Nyx and Ember. I never assumed any of those things. I never said any of those things. A map nuking frame requires a good setup too. You need mods that aren't given by just any old means just like with a good melee or gun setup. You argument could use a bit more work to make sense.

If you play to kill to shoot things, then do that. Play and shoot. Kill things. 

The issues with fist weapons vs whips or heavy swords orrrr polearms is that you are outright choosing to embrace your inner Atlas and punch things in the face. Don't be upset when you go into public queue and your teammates don't want to do that. That is on you, and not them.

Ninja? Is Saryn a ninja? Is Volt a ninja? What about Titania? Is she a ninja? Why does everything need to be a careful tip-toeing ninja for it to be accepted? If you choose that playstyle and jump into a pub match, that really is on you. Try doing that for a sortie rescue mission. You'll be left way back in room one while everyone is seconds from extraction due to a Volt's 2. Honestly, you seem angry. You seem really riled up, as if I am personally coming at you with my statements. I don't know you or how you play. Want ot know something funny? Neither does anyone else in pub matchmaking. You don't know their playstyles or preferences either. The game does not revolve around you or me or them. It's a group effort if you choose for it to be, and you will have to work with what you are dealt or leave and try again, simple as that.

Whiplashing isn't spin to win. Winning is winning. it's using guns, skills, swords, fists, whatever you and everyone wants to use to win. I wish you would tone it down and speak like a mature adult instead of saying that players who use whips and the like are "hurr-durr-ing" dumb macroing meta followers. We use what we like, just as you do. I prefer whips. I like the smoothness in a quick slide melee. You like to crack corpus jaws. Who cares? I don't care what you or anyone else does as long as we make it to extraction and get our rewards. It's not up to you to decide what everyone does. Don't like how they play? Don't play that way.

[Sesaline]

34 minutes ago, ganjou234 said:

-snip-

Also, I would like to further my point about AoE nuke frames being more interactive than you're over here spouting off about. Their survivability balances out the casting role they serve for your team. They can't take very many hits. In order to not die (in challenging content) they are usually pretty mobile, or staying within the safety of their team's space. Their nukes are usually a buildup of several skills (Saryn) or soaking up their damage dealt (Equinox). It's not as easy or brainless as you're painting it to be. They need to keep moving and managing their energy pool in order to do these things. It is vital that they know where the enemies are and how many of them are coming their way, too. Their loadout is pretty crucial as well in their overall performance. Their mods, weapons, and even companions all come into play. Interestingly enough, the same can be said for any other frame out there, and any other playstyle you can imagine. I can tell that this playstyle truly is not for you, even to the point that you frown down upon and belittle the users that do enjoy it.

Now, if you're upset about your teammates nuking in low level missions... you can breathe on a level 20-40 enemy and they die. What about weapons that do the same thing? Now that is potentially zero effort: just point and hold down left click. Mow down everything in front of you and proceed. Most times you wouldn't even stop advancing through the map while firing off weapons anyway. So do you think that weapons are acceptable but caster frames are not? I don't see any mention of them and wonder what your stance is on weapon usage as well. 

Do you want every frame to be the same? Would you be happiest if all caster frames were removed from the game to fit your idea of a warframe ninja utopia? Additionally you could try joining a clan or finding people to play with that also enjoy your kind of playstyle instead of going into public matchmaking. I know It's kinda crazy! but you can do this, you know, by not playing with randoms. You have the power to decide who you play with. Sure it may take a little bit of startup time to build a friends list of people who are likeminded, but if it means you'll enjoy the game more then I would say it's worthwhile to do.

Variety keeps things interesting. Maybe you should try fighting more challenging enemies if you are concerned with map nukers or "hurr-durr" crit sliders; they only get so far before they need a crutch to lean on. If they can go farther, then they are skillful and have a great understanding of the map, their limitations, and their enemies. 

 

My biggest issue is that people can't seem to understand that public matchmaking is a mixed bag. You do not know what you're going to get for your team comp. So why opt into that and then complain? If you need public on, then you are either relying on the others for affinity or support for completing that mission. Why be so spiteful of someone who is there doing their own thing too and having a good time however they choose to? Seriously.

 

[ganjou234]

18 minutes ago, Sesaline said:

Zero effort is a lie. I play a bunch of frames. I have 26 unlocked so far and enjoy them all in their own regards, besides Nyx and Ember. I never assumed any of those things. I never said any of those things. A map nuking frame requires a good setup too. You need mods that aren't given by just any old means just like with a good melee or gun setup. You argument could use a bit more work to make sense.

No. It is the truth. (Saryn) 1. Slap mods on 2. Stand on one point 3. Press 1&4 (alternatively bind 1 and 4 on a macro loop).

Three other frame join in to kill things and find that everything dies before they could even aim down sights.

Did their setups suck? No.

Loot ends up too far to pickup and you spend most of the time trying to run around and get it rather than killing things.

Costly to setup - YES

Effortless when setup - YES

Just like old Limbo Stasis - YES (by preventing people from killing things)

24 minutes ago, Sesaline said:

If you play to kill to shoot things, then do that. Play and shoot. Kill things. 

Yes, this is a shooter and I intend to shoot things.

25 minutes ago, Sesaline said:

The issues with fist weapons vs whips or heavy swords orrrr polearms is that you are outright choosing to embrace your inner Atlas and punch things in the face. Don't be upset when you go into public queue and your teammates don't want to do that. That is on you, and not them. 

Actually it's fist weapons & heavy swords & polearms vs whips. Strangely, I find that heavy swords and polearms less annoying than whips. The problem here is the same as the Nuke Frames, everybody else cant kill anything (although only to a lesser extent since whips aren't map nukes).

TBH I dont really mind whips, I just hate macro spinners/spin spammers. Maybe I just dont like people that wanna be beyblades.

35 minutes ago, Sesaline said:

Neither does anyone else in pub matchmaking. You don't know their playstyles or preferences either. The game does not revolve around you or me or them. It's a group effort if you choose for it to be, and you will have to work with what you are dealt or leave and try again, simple as that.

Whiplashing isn't spin to win. Winning is winning. it's using guns, skills, swords, fists, whatever you and everyone wants to use to win. I wish you would tone it down and speak like a mature adult instead of saying that players who use whips and the like are "hurr-durr-ing" dumb macroing meta followers. We use what we like, just as you do. I prefer whips. I like the smoothness in a quick slide melee. You like to crack corpus jaws. Who cares? I don't care what you or anyone else does as long as we make it to extraction and get our rewards. It's not up to you to decide what everyone does. Don't like how they play? Don't play that way.

The thing that ticks me off is posts that defends bad design by saying, "it's a pub match, you cant tell em what to do". That's the reson people have abused map nukers and spin macro ever since.

That's how I received your post, it seemed like you were the assumption that the people that complained about getting lower kills have bad setups.Thats the reason that I got quite riled up and aggressive in my response. The differing play-styles shouldn't ever bog down one another.

[Sesaline]

1 minute ago, ganjou234 said:

-snip-

I don't think it's bad design. There is balance in these frames' kits, though it can seem like they are OP/borked on lower level missions. Saryn has been reworked 4 or 5 times now, for instance. Lots of people really love to use her because her kit is fun. Her status procs are also a free enemy radar essentially. When I say that people could use better setups, I don't mean that they need my setup. I mean that they need to work on maximizing their own preferred setup and playstyle. If someone is standing on the cryopod and spamming abilities (Mag, str/range Limbo, Saryn, Volt, Banshee, etc), move away from their range if possible and pick off enemies as they step out. Or I guess you could just leave even though it's not fun to do that. It's a waste of time to load in and then hate the experience so much that you would rather leave. Some missions I see people throw down energy pads like crazy and literally spam. Like, legit nonstop spamming their abilities. It happens, and it's kinda weird but whatever. The mission only lasts so long and you can dip on wave 5.

 

Anyways, I feel like I've strayed from the melee 3.0 topic now and am going to leave this at that. We don't have to agree about public matchmaking but I do understand where you are coming from. Melee 3.0 is on the way and I am looking forward to the stream tomorrow about it. It could be awesome or it could suck (for me), but I won't know until I actually try it out.

 

[ganjou234]

16 minutes ago, Sesaline said:

What about weapons that do the same thing? Now that is potentially zero effort: just point and hold down left click. Mow down everything in front of you and proceed. Most times you wouldn't even stop advancing through the map while firing off weapons anyway. So do you think that weapons are acceptable but caster frames are not? I don't see any mention of them and wonder what your stance is on weapon usage as well.

That's the difference. Nuke in a direction vs Nuke the whole bloody map. Directional vs Map Wide.

The other allows your other teammates to do their thing while another hogs gameplay.

20 minutes ago, Sesaline said:

My biggest issue is that people can't seem to understand that public matchmaking is a mixed bag. You do not know what you're going to get for your team comp. So why opt into that and then complain? If you need public on, then you are either relying on the others for affinity or support for completing that mission. Why be so spiteful of someone who is there doing their own thing too and having a good time however they choose to? Seriously.

So I guess everybody queuing up for pub gotta go support now huh? What happened to minding our own business? I thought players should play what they wanna play? Maybe stasis shouldn't have been reworked?

Maybe the game should be designed in such a way that players dont step on each other's feet?

27 minutes ago, Sesaline said:

Why be so spiteful of someone who is there doing their own thing too and having a good time however they choose to? Seriously. 

You dont think people going pub doing what they wanna do but cant because of one player is bad? If people should be able to do what they wanna do then they should be able to do so.

[(PSN)TheRallykiller]

...maybe then we can start to talk about test servers and community testing outside of DE's internal QA?

I love ❤️ DE's various streams and their incredible transparency and clarity (when compared to the game industry "average").  I'm just of the mind that the content release process of internal QA->PC launch->PC feedback->PC hotfix->console launch->console feedback->console hotfix might be streamlined with a public test server (PC).

I mean, I have to think that it's a cost-benefit situation, and the current process just "works" because it's the process everyone's used to.

But...

By this point, an early Melee 3.0 build could (theoretically) have hit the PTS (public test server), and put DE ahead of the curve in the content release/adjustment process.

Ideally, I would think that real community feedback—as opposed to theory and assumption—would take the place of the last 20 or so pages of "passionate guessing" and inter-community arguing, and thus, tighten the loop on feedback and make it more meaningful and productive for DE (and by extension, the community).

But, I could be way off...

[FreeWilliam]

Watching the devstream, I'll confess I'm a LOT less nervous now.

The range increase on the shorter ranged weapons combined with the extra mobility looks like it'll make the whole suite of weapons and stances intriguing and fun.  

Well done guys.

[(PSN)Touha9]

Just watched the Devstream myself......totally hyped for Melee 3.0!  WOW!

[Synpai]

After the devstream you really hit those DMC notes. My only concern is the "forward input" vs no forward input combos.... seems like it would be better to have them as a heavy combo chain?

i kinda feel like I'm always holding forward while meleeing.

[Sesaline]

-forums double posted a reply-

[Sesaline]

12 hours ago, ganjou234 said:

That's the difference. Nuke in a direction vs Nuke the whole bloody map. Directional vs Map Wide.

The other allows your other teammates to do their thing while another hogs gameplay.

So I guess everybody queuing up for pub gotta go support now huh? What happened to minding our own business? I thought players should play what they wanna play? Maybe stasis shouldn't have been reworked?

Maybe the game should be designed in such a way that players dont step on each other's feet?

You dont think people going pub doing what they wanna do but cant because of one player is bad? If people should be able to do what they wanna do then they should be able to do so.

You're really overreaching into my comments. By support, I mean that the person running it maybe could not complete the mission alone, so they need some extra help. Think: MR3 trying to complete X". How did you get "So I guess everybody queuing up for pub gotta go support now huh?" from that? I feel like you are trying very hard to cherry pick and twist my words into something they are not. 

Maybe the game should be designed so your teammate's don't step on your toes? Is this real life? You are choosing to play with other people and then getting this worked up when they outperform you or play in a way you don't like? My god. I hope a nice rest helped clear your head because this level of angst is just embarrassing. If you don't want your teammates to play how they want to play then take more time in choosing who you play with so that you can do your thing while your teammates are just there to hold your hand and be unseen accessories through the whole mission. lol

"You dont think people going pub doing what they wanna do but cant because of one player is bad?"

I can't take you seriously anymore. I really can't. You do realize that you are the bad player? You're the one not willing to work with your team? You're the one trying to be a literal ninja when 3/4ths of the team* just want to get the mission done? Geez mate, you need to tone it down. I did nothing to you and honestly if Warframe stresses you out this much then maybe you should take a nice vacation away from matchmaking.

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melee 3.0 isn't going to change someone being able to spin with max sensitivity while firing off an ignis or an amprex or whatever kind of beam/high RoF weapon to clear the room. I've seen it before. Weapons are not always as clear-cut directional as you are assuming. In low level missions you can kill the enemies with just about anything. What people choose to kill with is up to them and not you. If you are this upset about other people not playing exactly how you want them to then don't. use. public. matchmaking.

[Sesaline]

1 hour ago, FreeWilliam said:

Watching the devstream, I'll confess I'm a LOT less nervous now.

The range increase on the shorter ranged weapons combined with the extra mobility looks like it'll make the whole suite of weapons and stances intriguing and fun.  

Well done guys.

The movement is looking super smooth, and I am all for it. Swapping to melee mode always felt pretty weird. You'd find yourself falling short of enemies or stopping after combos, leaving you vulnerable. Their presentation was pretty impressive, and this is only the halfway mark!

[Cardenius]

Just watched the devstream vod, I liked the mechanics but I was slightly put off by the amount of lightshow that's been put into simple slashes (not even "channel" enhanced), it feels a bit forced, particles just for the sake of particles, and the huge explosions of light during the slam attacks just felt straight up too much. Option to tone them down/turn them off without turning ALL your settings down would be greatly appreciated. Unless it was all turned up to 11 just to show the reach, in which case keep up the great work!

[(PSN)azul86sapphire]

Watched the devstream, and am very disappointed at how the Kronen performed.  Those blades are better than that.

I don't see why there is hype or so much emphasis for heavy attacks.  They are slow and looked as though they were out of place in the fluidity and speed of combos.

Trying to normalize combos, I get.  But what of stances that have 4 movement sets?  I notice it was mentioned a base set (no movement), a forward set, a block "close-the-gap" attack (is that a full set?)  But what of the fourth?  Some stances only have two sets anyway (Polearms, I believe?) - will they finally be getting some additional movements to be more in line with other weapons?

I said this in the Devstream thread, but heard one of the Devs say in stream the "basic attacks" were idealized to be single-target focus.  Why?  The sweeping multi-enemy attacks are what is useful in this hoard-game.  Enemies should not live long enough to endure a full combo.  If they do something is wrong...