[DE]Rebecca

Melee: Present and Future goals!

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So, the combo counter not affecting base damage is very clear. But what about blood rush that affects crit chance? No change? 

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How will mods like Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds interact with the combo counter?

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Good. Spin2Win is one of the worst metas this game has seen.

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Posted (edited)

While I don't like spin to win, don't even use it either, I do feel this is maybe going a little overboard with the 'adjustments' to the ENTIRE melee system....if you want to fix spin to win, simples just stop allowing macros

 

Also not sure I like the proposed combo counter being used for the heavy attack... I don't see how that is more 'intuitive' than holding the melee button to charge it.... not to mention how's it going to impact mods that rely on combo's...

 

Also feel this is nerfing the trade value of certain mods....hmm, really is starting to feel like DE doesn't want a trade market anymore.

edit: actually thought of a really simple fix for heavy attacks and blocking, seeing as it seems we're losing charge attacks (hows that going to work with focus schools)...

Why not just right mouse to block and left mouse button + melee button to do a heavy attack...none of this 'combo counter' is needed and we can keep the old combo counter system.

Edited by LSG501
clarity
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If normal attacks wont get any dmg mod from combo counter you will get back to old days when melee vs higher levels were spaming heavy attack only.

For melee gameplay Life strike is one of most important things, please adres how will that change.

Channeled blocking was useless because it drained insane amounts of energy to reflect small amounts of dmg (when enemy have lvl 100+ and you reflect 100dmg its definition of useless) , if you will force block to drain energy you will make players to never use block again.

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Combo Counter minimum hits per tier adjusted significantly so higher tiers can be reached more quickly and easily. Combo Counter damage multiplier may apply to heavy attack only and all points are spent on attack.

This is imo the worst change of them all - melee had a great scaleability, and it was why it was so much fun, at least for me. If I understand this correctly (And I might have misunderstand), that's basically going away with the changes done to melee.

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I would like to see channeling be separated from JUST melee and be seen as "Hyper Transference (hold 5?)"

A state that adds functions to our warframes (or their abilities), or alters stats to weapons, like increasing range or damage (think DMC Devil Trigger).

Not to mention, I think you could make a cool interaction with particular mods and add "Auras" like flower petals when channeling.

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Posted (edited)

Combo Counter minimum hits per tier adjusted significantly so higher tiers can be reached more quickly and easily. Combo Counter damage multiplier may apply to heavy attack only and all points are spent on attack.

 this is so bad

Edit: wall incoming.

* During an older dev stream you specified how combos didn't work because of how fast the enemies were dying and that none of them were close enough to chain combos.

Here comes today's dev post where you frontload even more damage to emphesize the combos problems to make up for the loss of combo multiplier. 🤗

* You want to remove the scaling from melee. Sure thing but what's the point of putting myself at risk with my fist weapons when I can just shoot from 20m away. It needs to be a risk reward situation.

* that inaros gliding through the sky is sure nice to look at but all I'm seeing is me locking myself up in the air while everything is shooting at me to do something fancy. This is another problem, you're going for the "wow" effect rather then what's actually useful and you should learn by now that players always go for the efficiency in the end (proven by the maming strike meta)

* You said it yourself, you're nerfing maiming to make the other stuff look good. Sure it was kinda op and all but you're solving nothing without asking yourself this question: why was everyone using it in the first place?

People are always gonna default to the efficient way of doing things like it or not. You saw it with frames, with adaro ect...

* You are putting emphesis on one of the most hated parts of melee: heavy attacks, they are slow, cluncky and put you at risk with the charge. And you are asking everyone to dump all their combo or feed of it for one single strike which will probably be either beyond overkill or will thickle high levels at best. there is no middle ground in warframe to consider fantasies like combos, it's either oneshot fodder or meatbags with infinite hp. Unless ofc you are planning to make combos the AW dotconnector that everyone hates.

* How are mods like Blood rush or weeping wounds going to worK? if you lose all your combos on heavy attacks then nobody is going to do that if they affect light attacks and if they only affect heavy attacks then they are not worth the mod slot.

* Please fix enemies spawning out of bounds and locking missions since you are removing the only effective way to deal with them. 

and if we follow the logic, enemies shouldn't be able to damage you through walls.

*How is all this gonna interact with frames that rely on the combo counter?

 

Edited by SSI_Seraph
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6 minutes ago, PoisonHD said:

Thank you for the workshop! That was quick, gonna read it.

EDIT: Well I read itl, I heard this on the Devstream, but if the combo counter is going to be removed from having any effect on basic attacks, the damage of melee weapons will need to be brought up significantly. These days, using the combo counter to ramp up your damage is a staple, and it'll be a huge nerf if we lose that multiplier effecting our basic attacks.

My other questions is about mods like Blood Rush, will they continue to have an effect on basic attacks? Or will they too only apply to the heavy attack? Lastly, will we get an increase for the decay timer on Melee combo counter?

They already said the base damage is going to be increased dramatically to make up for loss of combo counter. 

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3 minutes ago, Jigoogly said:

 "Combo Counter damage multiplier may apply to heavy attack only and all points are spent on attack."

 

pls no

Do not forget this will heavily affect Ash players as well. The combo meter was a great thing for melee. Sad it is getting toned down because of Acolyte mods most likely.

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1 minute ago, CrazyValkyr said:

This is imo the worst change of them all - melee had a great scaleability, and it was why it was so much fun, at least for me. If I understand this correctly (And I might have misunderstand), that's basically going away with the changes done to melee.

Not really. They said i nthe dev stream the base hits are all going to be dramatically increased to make up for the loss of combo counter

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There are two things I want to know.

1) How will the combo counter affect mods like Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds and also Warframe powers that scale off of it? Do Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds still affect regular attacks and only the damage bonus that the current counter gives is leaving? Or will Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds only affect heavy attacks. Also if all points are spent on a single attack, why would I heavy attack when playing a frame like Atlas or Ash who have powers that scale off combo multiplier?

2) What is going to happen to Channeling mods? I know I don't use most of them but I'd like to keep Life Strike around.

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Sorry I hate the whole revist on this

-Makes combo useless since it takes the scaleability of melee
-Moving the block button away to the left (the shoot button) is weird and highly counter productive
-Using combo counters do do heavy attacks and possible blocking is also bad in my opinion, We would have to get body count in all the melees to keep combo to use heavy attacks since its prob the only choice now.
-Over complicating the system. The current melee system is straight foward and easy to use. why making more complex.

All that needed to be done is boost ranges on melees and either remove or rework channeling in a meaningful way.
If you have a button open since you are going to remove channeling why not being able to melee with the mouse now ?

All im saying is:
Don't go through with this
Keep block on the current block button
Put a melee strike on the mouse instead of channel
Fix ranges (dagger/Tonfa/etc)
Don't mess with the combo scaling melee dmg as it gives a lot of use to melees on higher missions and longer runs

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3 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

unnown but currently you don't need to 'charge' those with a combo meter for them to be useful, so I'd wager not. Will be interested in how the orvius will work since right now the grab/hold is a channel mechanic. Will we require the block button to do that since it's taking on some of the channel aspects?

dual wielded orvius only need the correct timed charge throw to do the same thing

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I am so mad, I just recently forma my melee weapons and build rivens for the maim strike...

Who is going to give me back the hours I wasted? No one, I am really salty.

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  • You'll be able to dual wield any one-handed weapon with any secondary weapon - as shown many moons ago on a Devstream!

YYYYEEEESSSSSSSSSSS!

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For the cool channeling effect, you can tie it in with heavy attacks, slam attacks, and WF ability use (on activation).

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46 minutes ago, lihimsidhe said:

Before I begin with Warframe's combat system, I'd like to briefly talk about Devil May Cry's combat system.  Without going into too much detail the player does not have to choose between 'firearm mode' or 'melee mode'.  It also has a unified combo system.  Meaning that regardless of the weapon a DMC player has the combos they learned for their first weapon works on any subsequent weapon they acquire.

While there is a lot more to DMC's combat than that, Capcom's approach has created a combat system that is near peerless in its execution.

Warframe is a different game on many levels so a straight copy and paste into Warframe wouldn't work well as any of us would hope.  However, there are 2 things Warframe can import from DMC that would work wonders:

  • The elimination of 'firearm mode' and 'melee mode'.  
  • The implementation of universal combos.

How this would work is by using the formerly named quick melee button as the gateway to launch into all of a weapon's combos.  

By this train of thought, a Tenno could also block at anytime by having a dedicated block command which could either be a single key press and/or a combination of key press.

Finally the elimination of 'firearm mode' and 'melee mode' would allow a player to channel at any time they so choose.  It should buff firearms and melee.  Deplete energy per shot fired with a firearm and deplete energy per enemy struck with a melee weapon and per attack blocked.

As for the combos themselves every weapon should have at least two combos: an AoE dedicated combo (because Warframe is a horde based game) and a single target focused combo in the rare event there are enemies which aren't hordes but challenging (I'm looking at you Nox).

The above suggestions would breathe new life into melee, allow channeling to be saved and to make it useful, and would be much less work than going in a whole new direction.

DE, WE ALREADY HAVE QUICK MELEE YES?
GIVE US QUICK FIRE!

As in if we have our melee equipped, let us quickfire our last firearm we had equipped by spamming E like we do with melee when primary or secondary is equipped. This will open up a whoooole other level of immersion and make for some epic moments during fights.

Imagine, you're slashing away at a grineer heavy with your fang prime and all of a sudden 4 grineer flamers walk through the door behind him, you backflip to get a bit of distance between you and quick fire your pandero, taking out all 5 units in one fell swoop.

Pls.

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Just now, Mewvg2 said:

And you forget that the moment you unleash that one powerful strike... you're back to swinging around a wet noodle again. All the while any decent firearm or frame would have the entire room cleared by the time you even get to that one powerful strike.

Melee is a good spammable system to get rid of enemies at close range so you can keep aiming, shooting, casting abilities, and parkouring without having to worry about another complex system. Its simplicity is its strength. It works the way it is, with the exception of Memeing Strike (which can easily be fixed without a complete overhaul of a decent system).

No one ever said you go back to zero combo counter, they said that it uses the combo counter as fuel for charge attacks.  If you seeing that gameplay in action didn't get you excited, then I guess you will just have to mourn the loss of your Atterax; Put the old girl to bed and dream of the other uses all of your wasted time and platinum could have bought you.

The big issue was that it wasn't a simple system, people just found it was more efficient to exploit it.  There was a pretty significant depth to the melee combos and stances, but it was so clunky that it was virtually unusable.  The intent was for a keen player to learn the combos and channel when the heavy hits came, effectively turning a heavy 3x damage slam into a 4.5x damage slam for 5 energy.  We didn't have time for that in the chaotic maelstrom that is Warframe, so we either face tank a heavy gunner and spam E, or we spend an exorbitant amount of time and resources into a slide attack, many even going so far as macro it and essentially stop playing the game and playing something closer to cookie clicker.  DE is making it well known that they are killing the cheese, if you were smart you would sell your exploit items before the BS rapture comes. 

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Posted (edited)

RIP😄

Melee weapons need a rework, and its really cool to see this time has come:satisfied:

But trade chat now goes crazy with meme strike:facepalm:

 

Edited by _N_I_N_T_E_N_D_O_
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