can our warframes fight like Sam Gideon from Vanquish or Raiden from metal gear rising?

[(PSN)alvian00]

is this our warframes full power or is there a limiter place on them so that our warframe won't destroy it self due to the stress place on them during combat? i would like to believe that we are only using a fraction of our warframe full potential much like that myth that we are only using 10% of our brain so to stop our bodys from destroying it self. i would like to run on an edolons arm and go for melee on one of the joints with a radiation weapon or jump on Vay Hak back and just stub stub stub on his back or getting eaten by lephantis but holding its jaw then shot shot and shot in its mouth or throwing a one of the dual sword on one of the Jackal joint jamming and attack the head decapitating it. wait can adding quick time events make the game more fun? it works on those two games i mention and i feel so epic doing those quick time events.

[Carnage2K4]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)alvian00 said:

can adding quick time events make the game more fun

[Kaotyke]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)alvian00 said:

wait can adding quick time events make the game more fun? it works on those two games i mention and i feel so epic doing those quick time events.

In a horde game, stopping to press a button to FINISH HIM! will be ignored to keep hacking away at the crowd around you.

Also, those 2 games are Single Player games. Not ONLINE/Co-op horde shooters. Well implemented QTEs might work on those, but here? No.

By the time you finish 1 enemy off with your "epic" QTE, you will look around, see all other 20-50 enemies dead and the rest of your team cleaning the next room.

[Renseiryuu]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)alvian00 said:

is this our warframes full power or is there a limiter place on them so that our warframe won't destroy it self due to the stress place on them during combat? i would like to believe that we are only using a fraction of our warframe full potential much like that myth that we are only using 10% of our brain so to stop our bodys from destroying it self. i would like to run on an edolons arm and go for melee on one of the joints with a radiation weapon or jump on Vay Hak back and just stub stub stub on his back or getting eaten by lephantis but holding its jaw then shot shot and shot in its mouth or throwing a one of the dual sword on one of the Jackal joint jamming and attack the head decapitating it. wait can adding quick time events make the game more fun? it works on those two games i mention and i feel so epic doing those quick time events.

That eidolon part was the fight with RAY, wasn't it? XD

Anyway, with our current connection issues (host migration, lag, etc), QTE wouldn't be advisable. Even without QTE, we're having trouble as it is, as sometimes lag could broke the boss fight.

While QTE is a cool idea, the game doesn't seem capable of implementing this at the moment.

[dEjAvU5566]

Considering DE capability of doing melee system, it's not gonna happened.

Unless they outsource the combat system to Platinum Games, and yes, 2 games you mentioned are produced by the same company, along with other also very good melee system games, like Bayonetta, Nier.

Compare with these games,  Warframe's melee sure feel like a kid laughably waving stick 

[(PSN)alvian00]

lore wise can warframes do it? i mean they can deflect bullets, parkour, survive otherwise fatal hits and endure pain like no other.

[Renseiryuu]

Lorewise, I'm sure they can. We're talking about space ninjas with super athletic capabilities here. 

And even if the frame itself isn't capable of the crazy parkour from MGR and Vanquish, I'm sure it could with the help of archwing. 

[Nykerios]

If DE were to implement a QTE in any fashion it would have to be as part of a quest boss, and most likely solo only. Otherwise it would ruin the pace of the game.

Now if only I could use Ballas' face as a speedbag Vanquish style........

Edited May 31, 2018 by --Q--Stryker
Autocorrect punctuation

[luigislam]

The closest thing we have to QTE is melee finishers and for reference spamming Ash's Teleport->Finisher combo against a crowd of enemies...yeah...no. Animations can be lit but the effectiveness is rather crap. Cool but useless. I mean...the little things in life can really spice it up but people are here to grind efficienty and not watch other people take longer to just mutilate hordes of enemies.

[neo3587s]

40 minutes ago, --Q--Stryker said:

If DE were to implement a QTE in any fashion it would have to be as part of a quest boss, and most likely solo only. Otherwise it would ruin the pace of the game.

Now if only I could use Ballas' face as a speedbag Vanquish style........

ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA !!!

 

(sorry, couldn't resist)

[lennieplop60]

36 minutes ago, neo3587s said:

ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA !!!

 

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Now I wanna see an atlas tennogen skin that looks like STAR PURATINUM

[Guest]

8 hours ago, (PS4)alvian00 said:

wait can adding quick time events make the game more fun? it works on those two games i mention and i feel so epic doing those quick time events. 

 

[Loza03]

A lot of what you suggest was designed for character action games, not a horde fighter with an emphasis on individual playstyles. Subsequently, a lot of the mechanics are used in those games, partially, to convey the character you play as, which wouldn't really work for Warframe as it's built around building your own in your mind. This need not be full-on role play levels, but it improves immersion and engagement if we 'feel' like our characters in this sort of game. Quick time events especially would (aside from interrupting game flow), force a player into a specific characterisation, which might be totally different to how we play.

Imagine someone who plays a more supportive role focused around healing allies and precision sniping of high-priority targets. Regardless of how deeply they might think about it, that conveys a character. Now imagine them brutalising a boss with a barrage of punches, or entering a cutscene where they spin around shooting wildly, not aiming at anything, because these are the scripted animations that everyone would have to use, since DE don't have the resources to fund development contextual animations for every possible, or even more than one characterisation. Playing along, feeling great as this healer/sniper combo and then, bam, suddenly you're not a precise healer, you're a brutal fighter who barely stops to aim. That'd pull you out of the experience, wouldn't it?

In answer to your original question: We're most likely operating at the peaks of our Warframe's abilities right now, with the exception of a couple, namely Nidus and Limbo. Nidus's full power could possibly wind up starting a second infestation, so that's not a good idea, and if you've played the Limbo Theorem quest you know why we aren't pushing Limbo's abilities to their limits. And I'd probably say we have comparable mobility to Sam and Raiden, since our mobility is fully 3D thanks to bullet jumping.

However there is one group that might not be using their full power, but their spoilers. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read further, unless you've completed the Second Dream and the War Within.

Spoiler

We are most certainly not using our Operators full power yet. "Inside your fragile Tenno body is the most powerful force in the universe." That's what we've got, but we cannot yet harness it, even briefly. If any aspect of Warframe is going to receive a large power boost, it will be our Kiddos.

Also, and this is personal preference, I'd rather not have my gameplay interrupted by unskippable sequences where I'm only required to mash a button. 

[(PSN)Zero_029]

Sounds cool. I admit.

But Horde Games often don't mix with such things. Also, such animations grow tiresome after some time.

For example, God of War 2018 is a masterpiece BUT for some players the "executions" grew tiring after awhile.
The first time you rip a Draugr in half it's delicious. THe 100th time it's "meh". (Probably how Kratos feels but that's beyond the point...)

If every Eidolon was killed with a QTE it'd grow tiresome after your 50th Eidolon kill.
I alone have killed over 100 Teralysts...so I know it'd grow annoying seeing 1 of 3 animations every single kill.

Now, I DO wish DE would take the melee combat from God of War 2018, DMC.
DMC had simple to enter but fluid, cancellable combos that flowed into one another but also were fun in execution.
GoW had weight to weapons (which is all in the animation. Good animation can make a weapon "feel" heavy, light, or inbetween.), as well as combat mechanics that made blocking, parrying, & lengthy combos feel both worthwhile & useful.

If DE takes lessons from those games the Melee rework could REALLY make Warframe shine.

[Loza03]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

 

Now, I DO wish DE would take the melee combat from God of War 2018, DMC.
DMC had simple to enter but fluid, cancellable combos that flowed into one another but also were fun in execution.
GoW had weight to weapons (which is all in the animation. Good animation can make a weapon "feel" heavy, light, or inbetween.), as well as combat mechanics that made blocking, parrying, & lengthy combos feel both worthwhile & useful.

If DE takes lessons from those games the Melee rework could REALLY make Warframe shine.

They actually mentioned DMC in the devstream where they announced the first stages of the rework. They were originally going to use it as a basis, but then they realised that a game focued more on stylishly beating every enemy individually has combat incompatible with a horde style game about killing efficiently. There is a reason 'Legendary Dark Knight' mode in DMC4 special edition is considered an extra mode, not a part of the standard difficulty progression. And God of War 2018 is much the same situation. Don't get me wrong, I'd love a more in-depth melee combat system in Warframe, but I don't think lifting from other games in other genres (Warframe isn't a character action game, DMC and GoW are) is the right solution.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

They actually mentioned DMC in the devstream where they announced the first stages of the rework. They were originally going to use it as a basis, but then they realised that a game focued more on stylishly beating every enemy individually has combat incompatible with a horde style game about killing efficiently. There is a reason 'Legendary Dark Knight' mode in DMC4 special edition is considered an extra mode, not a part of the standard difficulty progression. And God of War 2018 is much the same situation. Don't get me wrong, I'd love a more in-depth melee combat system in Warframe, but I don't think lifting from other games in other genres (Warframe isn't a character action game, DMC and GoW are) is the right solution.

You mis-understand me.

I'm talking about the mechanics used in those games.

As in...DE should use them as reference points/inspirations.

For example...

DMC's Combo entry system is what I was referring to.

The combos were easy to enter, & were very fluid which made them both easy to learn, retain, & most importantly chain.

DMC's stylish animations are essentially what Warframe has now & it doesn't work well.

When I refer to God of War I'm talking more on it's animations than inputs & enemy reaction.

God of War's simple yet highly polished animations are why Kratos' attacks feel so heavy & impactful.

In Warframe Heavy Blades, Scythes, Hammers all flow far too smoothly they don't feel like hard hitters. This is due to the flashy animations.

When Kratos swings his Axe, it feels like a damn Greataxe. It feels like a sledgehammer. This is all animation.

Now when I mention enemy reactions.

In God of War even light attacks cause enemy flinch. Essentially its CC.

Light Attacks cause the target to flinch/just barely be stunned upon each hit. This allows the player to continue & finish said combo.

However many heavy enemies only flinch 25% of the time, so players need to mix in heavy attacks, & etc.

Additionally, all enemies receive dimished returns. So players in GoW have to mix up combos or the enemy will power through the combo spam or parry the player & once parried they punish the player.

Now I don't want a AOE weapon like polearms, whips, etc. Controlling a room with perma CC.

I'm suggesting that enemies simply have a very minor flinch. Preferably with diminished returns to ensire players don't just spam the same combos.

I agree with your point.

I jist want DE to analyze these mechanics/code & try to implement them.

The animations would take theblongest but done right, they alone would make all of Warframe's weapons feel unique & powerful.

[Kaotyke]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

You mis-understand me.

I'm talking about the mechanics used in those games.

As in...DE should use them as reference points/inspirations.

For example...

DMC's Combo entry system is what I was referring to.

The combos were easy to enter, & were very fluid which made them both easy to learn, retain, & most importantly chain.

DMC's stylish animations are essentially what Warframe has now & it doesn't work well.

When I refer to God of War I'm talking more on it's animations than inputs & enemy reaction.

God of War's simple yet highly polished animations are why Kratos' attacks feel so heavy & impactful.

In Warframe Heavy Blades, Scythes, Hammers all flow far too smoothly they don't feel like hard hitters. This is due to the flashy animations.

When Kratos swings his Axe, it feels like a damn Greataxe. It feels like a sledgehammer. This is all animation. 

Now when I mention enemy reactions.

In God of War even light attacks cause enemy flinch. Essentially its CC.

Light Attacks cause the target to flinch/just barely be stunned upon each hit. This allows the player to continue & finish said combo.

However many heavy enemies only flinch 25% of the time, so players need to mix in heavy attacks, & etc.

Additionally, all enemies receive dimished returns. So players in GoW have to mix up combos or the enemy will power through the combo spam or parry the player & once parried they punish the player.

Now I don't want a AOE weapon like polearms, whips, etc. Controlling a room with perma CC.

I'm suggesting that enemies simply have a very minor flinch. Preferably with diminished returns to ensire players don't just spam the same combos.

I agree with your point.

I jist want DE to analyze these mechanics/code & try to implement them.

The animations would take theblongest but done right, they alone would make all of Warframe's weapons feel unique & powerful.

Then we have hit a wall: Attack Speed mods.

Because when you get to ROTFL levels of speed, all feeling of "heavyness" is lost.

 

[Firetempest]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

God of War's simple yet highly polished animations are why Kratos' attacks feel so heavy & impactful.

In Warframe Heavy Blades, Scythes, Hammers all flow far too smoothly they don't feel like hard hitters. This is due to the flashy animations.

When Kratos swings his Axe, it feels like a damn Greataxe. It feels like a sledgehammer. This is all animation.

The big difference in all that animation is you have one dude with three main weapon sets. And everything is a set speed dealing with about 8 main enemy types ballanced around his movement speed. Most of the game is built around stun and evade combat with a average of 4 or 5 guys pacing around you with a high of 8 or so and I don't remember seeing speed gem enhancements in play throughs either.

WF was 23 different melee groups and far far more stances with mostly key frame animation I believe. Then adjustable speed modding. The modding part breaks all good intentions. And WF is heavily entrenched in its ways due to it's mod system and let's not mention enemy scaling. 

 

[SixDimensions]

As much as I love the melee combat systems from DmC (and the other games of the title series), Bayonetts, and God of War, those systems wouldn't work in Warframe.  As many before have mentioned, this is a horde based game.  In order to make combos useful, not just fancy and flashy, they need to either engage multiple enemies or do reduced damage to enemies. My Lesion can kill a small group of star chart enemies in a single hit.  Higher levels only takes one or two hits.  If the Lesion no longer performs this way then I would just use ranged weapons.  Ranged weapons in DmC and Bayonetta, for example, are next to useless.  Mostly they just chip away at health or add a little flash to the gameplay.

Any changes in Warframe's melee system has to take into consideration a balance of power between ranged and melee combat as well as style versus utility.  If enemies are less vulnerable to melee in order to make the combo system more engaging then most people will likely just use their ranged weapons.

To sort of sum up my opinion: a melee focus in Warframe can't necessarily take inspiration from DmC or GOW because the nature of combat between these two genres are antithetical to one another.  Melee and ranged are very powerful in Warframe and you face hordes of enemies.  In DmC/GOW there are much less enemies but they're far more durable in comparison to the damage you can output, and ranged weapons are much less powerful.  Favoring a melee system similar to those games wouldn't work or would see melee severely nerfed, something that I'm sure many people are not okay with

[(PSN)dursereg]

12 hours ago, Carnage2K4 said:

This + 1000. Hate qt events.

[(XBOX)DeadFall526]

Literally .. who ?

[RetroNomad]

 

Dah

Though I guess we'll see how the new melee system works out. I would enjoy a bit more "impact" to the combat... though that may not be the correct term I'm looking for. The combat is satisfying for sure and really visceral... but there's just something missing, I guess a since of weight to the impacts with bladed weapons? Or maybe just even a more refined combo system would go a LONG way.

Like I said, we'll see what's going on with Melee 3.0
After looking at these gifs and really looking at combo videos from the melee masters at Platinum it seems that adding frame pauses during the combo animations is what REALLY adds impact to them. Maybe that's all that would really be needed? Makes sense when I think about how GREAT hand to hand weapons feel in Warframe.
 




 

Edited May 31, 2018 by RetroNomad

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, RetroNomad said:

 

Dah

Though I guess we'll see how the new melee system works out. I would enjoy a bit more "impact" to the combat... though that may not be the correct term I'm looking for. The combat is satisfying for sure and really visceral... but there's just something missing, I guess a since of weight to the impacts with bladed weapons? Or maybe just even a more refined combo system would go a LONG way.

Like I said, we'll see what's going on with Melee 3.0
After looking at these gifs and really looking at combo videos from the melee masters at Platinum it seems that adding frame pauses during the combo animations is what REALLY adds impact to them. Maybe that's all that would really be needed? Makes sense when I think about how GREAT hand to hand weapons feel in Warframe.
 




 

Hitstop (the term for the pause) would go a long way, as would a bit more easing in the animations. Right now the movements are good, they just lack the proper kinesthetics (or whatever the word is) to make them feel weighty. Case and point, DMC2 which had no easing on a number of moves, which made the whole game about as satisfying to play as... I can't find a suitable simile, so that should tell you how bad it is.

[RetroNomad]

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

Hitstop (the term for the pause) would go a long way, as would a bit more easing in the animations. Right now the movements are good, they just lack the proper kinesthetics (or whatever the word is) to make them feel weighty. Case and point, DMC2 which had no easing on a number of moves, which made the whole game about as satisfying to play as... I can't find a suitable simile, so that should tell you how bad it is.

Td;IL
And agreed. You put it into words better than I could. It really would go a long way when connecting with mobs.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

9 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

Then we have hit a wall: Attack Speed mods.

Because when you get to ROTFL levels of speed, all feeling of "heavyness" is lost.

True.

But if they are reworking melee as a whole then speed (just like range) may also need/receive a cap.

I'm not saying that because I want a "heavy feel". I'm saying this because of an issue DE has even noticed. Which is Weapon Diversity. Which all the Tennogen Weapon Skins have exacerbated.

For the sake of arguement. I'll just say this...

Heavy Weapons need to be much slower.

Right now even with all the current melee weapons Polearms, Whips, & Heavy Blades see the most use...if not exclusive use. All the other weapons get left behind (part of DE's goal in the rework is creating melee weapon diversity.)

2 of those 3 are Heavy Class.

It's an extremely unpopular opinion but these weapons need to slow down.

If they are slow enough & have a definite speed cap then there becomes a trade off. High attack power but slow speed (how it should be impo), where whips & other one handed weapons do normal to light damage but have a less severe speed cap.

Trade offs like this already exist with ranged weapons. With Shotguns still being the most heavily used ranged weapons but hurting player range, low magazines, etc.