Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, LazerSkink said: While true, they need to make sure their moderators are acting accordingly to the Code of Conduct, not above it. It doesn't look good on DE if they're not holding their own moderators to the same standard as every other player. Which is what's happening, and why this thread and the video in the OP exist. We don't want to be called idiots and PoS' by our own community mods. Just now, Letter13 said: If you have evidence of moderators violating the Terms of Use/Code of Conduct, please take a screenshot of the event and submit it with a support ticket to notify DE staff of the matter. Abuse of moderator privileges is something that is taken seriously. Doesn't the video show plenty of evidence of TOS/COC violations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorClipClop Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, CrunchyCloud said: I know i don't have any decision making power, i'm not deluded. I just wanted to make my voice heard. If you wanted to do that, you should have filed a report about specific issues you're experiencing in the game. Nobody at Support is going to see this thread unless you count Forum Moderators who'll show up to lock it. Your only audience here will be fellow butthurt pitchfork sharpeners, forum posters who come here to make fun of you, and posters who will try to explain to you that what you're doing isn't helping anyone, least of all you. Trying to "make your voice heard" by making a GD thread like this indicates at least one of two things: You don't know how to solve the issue you have. You're just looking for attention. Edited May 31, 2018 by SenorClipClop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letter13 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Sitchrea said: Which is what's happening, and why this thread and the video in the OP exist. We don't want to be called idiots and PoS' by our own community mods. Doesn't the video show plenty of evidence of TOS/COC violations? Not directly, no. The video has a lot of cherry picked posts/statements/chat messages, some non-relevant stuff, and a lot of speculation. Appropriate evidence would be a screenshot of a full chat log (or forum post(s)) and all interactions involved in the event that clearly shows abuse of moderation privileges. It would also have to be of these forums or the in-game chat; pictures/screenshots from external sites (read: tumblr) does not work well as evidence as they cannot be corroborated for accuracy and they are outside the scope of the Terms of Use and Code of Conduct for Warframe. Edited May 31, 2018 by Letter13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune_me Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sitchrea said: Then you didn't watch the video in the OP. Danielle has admitted once before that another Mod led her to believe something that wasn't entirely true. Certain other mods in question have even bragged about getting their way with DE, and these aren't the people to make up something like that. Responsibility lies with the staff at DE that makes the decisions. Pretending that a "mod" tricked you is a cheap cop out. All final decisions lies with DE staff. They alone control the bots. If something happens with the bot or chat rules, it happens with the consensus and approval of DE staff. That's really all there is to it. Pointing fingers at moderators is just dancing around the issue, probably because they are easy targets and all the angry players (all 12 of them) are too afraid to actually blame DE themselves. 7 minutes ago, Sitchrea said: And I'm fine with people disagreeing with me. What I am not fine with is punishing people who disagree with you, and that's what an auto-ban is. It's too strong a measure, and was put there at the request of mods who bragged about convincing DE to do it. They have an agenda, and that's not right. Everyone has an agenda. You don't think the person making that video has an agenda? Or the OP. Or me or you? Everyone does. I agree that an auto-ban is punishing people. It's implied by the name. I don't know why there's an auto-ban instead of just a warning. I don't know why there is no explanation for why you get banned or no indication for how long the ban is. It's certainly not how I would have implemented the system if I had been in control. But it's there, and it doesn't seem like it's going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilemyre Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Sitchrea said: Doesn't the video show plenty of evidence of TOS/COC violations? It does but not directly within DE's power. I'd still make a ticket anyway And its probably ideal others do. However.. As one person said in that video. "Your report is literally nothing special, just saying" That being said Letter13 is just doing what he needs to do as a mod and advise you to go there. Edited May 31, 2018 by Vilemyre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemisfortune Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Letter13 said: Not directly, no. Appropriate evidence would be a screenshot of a full chat log (or forum post(s)) and all interactions involved in the scenario. It would also have to be of these forums or the in-game chat. The video contains those, and plenty of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Letter13 said: Not directly, no. The video has a lot of cherry picked posts/statements/chat messages, some non-relevant stuff, and a lot of speculation. Appropriate evidence would be a screenshot of a full chat log (or forum post(s)) and all interactions involved in the scenario. It would also have to be of these forums or the in-game chat. So are moderators held accountable for what they post on their own personal accounts? Or are they only held to what they say and do in-game or on the forums? BTW, really appreciate you, Letter13. You've always been a good forum mod. Edited May 31, 2018 by Sitchrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letter13 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Pent_ said: The video contains those, and plenty of them. I see cherry picked messages, not full interactions. This is not good evidence of wrongdoing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliboom Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Oh boy, this drama is still going on? The devs clearly need to keep an eye on what some of the moderators are doing. The moderators are supposed to judge people in an unbiased way, and not insult the community they're supposed to moderate. This is clearly not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunRunnerX Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, CrunchyCloud said: That's unacceptable. Those people need to be dropped ASAP. I didn't go through the entire video, just reading from your long TLDR and I actually agree with you, regardless of what your intent might actually be (according to other's you're whining so it must be true). You could be a d*ck about this (a duck!). DE goes through the trouble of things like Men's Health month then on the flip-side they have homophobic bots completely unaware of LGBTQ standards. If anything maybe you could start a CNN uproar on the topic. Gay should for certainly not be a filtered word, and then to have them be hypocrites about their own rules as they see fit. Others have gotten in trouble for less. Most workplaces make you take anti-discrimination and diversity awareness courses. Perhaps DE or the bot team or whoever needs to brush up a bit on these topics. Edited May 31, 2018 by GunRunnerX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilemyre Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Letter13 said: Not directly, no. Appropriate evidence would be a screenshot of a full chat log (or forum post(s)) and all interactions involved in the scenario. It would also have to be of these forums or the in-game chat. Just curious but considering the situation with fostinator losing his guides of the lotus becaus eof outside events which shouldn't have happened anyway and he had the chance to come back because of it (clearly denied it) Are the moderators and guides basically untouchable if any of the info is outside DE's property? Even if they boast they have the freedom to say whatever now they are outside to do so (and proceed to say the n word after)? Again fostinator was kicked for stuff thats not within DE's property so i'm just curious how people could go about this to DE. Not trying to be biased i'm legit wanting to know your advice as to how this can be brought up. Edited May 31, 2018 by Vilemyre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-_Highlander_- Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, Letter13 said: If you have evidence of moderators abusing their privileges and violating the Terms of Use/Code of Conduct in the game or on the forums, please take a screenshot of the event and submit it with a support ticket to notify DE staff of the matter. As moderators, violations of the Code of Conduct and Terms of Service on our part is a severe issue that needs to be resolved as quickly as possible. Moreover I'd like to remind everyone of rule 6 regarding complaints; if you have a complaint about how you've been moderated or complaints about how another user (including moderators) is acting in Warframe, file a report on the forums (if it's happening on the forums) or a support ticket if it's happening in the game. Naming & shaming others (including moderators) is not something that is allowed. but beeing falsely accused by moderator who iam not name may be allowed to use there powers Nicely said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliboom Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) Oh also, all this drama just makes things worse, really. It gives transgender people a bad reputation, hurting them more than any insult could. Edited May 31, 2018 by Caliboom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Letter13 said: I see cherry picked messages, not full interactions. This is not good evidence of wrongdoing. I know you're not really the one we're supposed to address with these things, but I do have to disagree. There are entire blog posts made by moderators bashing demographics within the community. There is no way that lies within the TOS/COC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Letter13 said: I see cherry picked messages, not full interactions. This is not good evidence of wrongdoing. That's about what I saw too, and why i had previously called it hearsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Caliboom said: Oh also, all this drama just makes things worse, really. It gives transgender people a bad reputation, hurting them more than any insult could. I only speak for myself, but if anyone actually meant to hurt trans people I would completely fight them on it. But I do think being over-protective of every demographic only hurts more than it helps, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letter13 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Sitchrea said: So are moderators held accountable for what they post on their own personal accounts? Or are they only held to what they say and do in-game or on the forums? We are accountable for what we post on the forums and in the in-game chat. Whether we are accountable in Warframe for what we say or do outside of the forums or the in game chat (provided we're not violating legal agreements such as NDAs) is entirely up to DE. We do not moderate, punish or ban people for their activities outside of Warframe. If users are able to act in accordance with the code of conduct while on the forums and within the game, then they are not at fault with the rules. Moreover, there is very little stopping people with vendettas against a moderator or moderators from creating fraudulent social media accounts in order to slander said moderator(s). I'm not advocating that the blog posts being used to name and shame certain moderators are fake and untrustworthy, but as evidence of wrongdoing within the game and forums it is not good evidence. 4 minutes ago, Pent_ said: I see people named, but not shamed. Misan is free to make jokes at the expense of all men if they please, I just think that we should have the same liberties to make jokes at the expense of fictional characters, or have everyone held to the same standard, whichever comes first. If you have screenshots showing full logs/interactions of a moderator making jokes at the expense of others in the in-game chat or on the forums, report it using a support ticket. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldnacpeek Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Caliboom said: Oh also, all this drama just makes things worse, really. It gives transgender people a bad reputation, hurting them more than any insult could. I'd like to believe everyone here is rational and mature enough to see this is more of an individual based issue, rather than a demographics one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemisfortune Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Letter13 said: I see cherry picked messages, not full interactions. This is not good evidence of wrongdoing. So then in what context is it ever okay to call someone stupid, and idiots? If trap and niger are bannable in any context, what context are blatant insult allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helch0rn Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 is this the new Revxdev? Here is my little tutorial how to stay out of drama: 1: Region chat is a cesspool. stay away 2: No matter what side of the "trap argument" you are on, stay away! Don't touch it with a 10 foot pole. 3: ??? 4: Profit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leland_Gaunt Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) I've watched the whole vid and I'm stumped. This is absolutely ridiculous, hideous even. If they don't want this to tarnish the reputation of the game, DE should do something about it quickly, and something else than their usual "soon™"-approach. This is absolutely disgusting. Edited May 31, 2018 by Leland_Gaunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letter13 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Sitchrea said: I know you're not really the one we're supposed to address with these things, but I do have to disagree. There are entire blog posts made by moderators bashing demographics within the community. There is no way that lies within the TOS/COC. The terms of service and code of conduct for Warframe only apply to Warframe. Whether DE decides to remove (or not remove) a moderator based on what they do outside of the forums/in-game chat is entirely their prerogative. Likewise, we (the moderators) will not give warning points, forum suspensions or in-game punishments to users for things they do outside of the game or the forums, as activities outside of Warframe are not something that's covered by the TOS/COC and as a result we do not have appropriate authority to moderate users as such. 4 minutes ago, Pent_ said: So then in what context is it ever okay to call someone stupid, and idiots? If trap and niger are bannable in any context, what context are blatant insult allowed? Never. If they do it in the in game chat or on the forums, report it. If it's done elsewhere, it's technically outside of our authority to moderate and you should report it to the managing authority of where it's posted (provided it violates the TOS/COC of where it's being posted). Edited May 31, 2018 by Letter13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroNomad Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) This thread. Whew lad. Edited May 31, 2018 by RetroNomad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemisfortune Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Letter13 said: If they do it in the in game chat or on the forums, report it. People have, what's the old up then? No one would be making post like this, and you wouldn't have to be handling this, if DE looked into the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AoN-CanoLathra- Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Pent_ said: People have, what's the old up then? No one would be making post like this, and you wouldn't have to be handling this, if DE looked into the situation. While I fullheartedly agree with you on this issue, please do remember that, as a Moderator, @Letter13 is the same rank as the players in question, and therefore couldn't do anything about this even if he wanted to. I get the feeling he is just trying to do his job while waiting for DE to make a decision on something that is out of his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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