Stop Making New Weapon Types

[MickThejaguar]

DE currently has a really bad habit of making new weapons types and then leaving them to die, while also having 17 Dual Swords with an 18th on the way. I've been playing this game on and off for 4 years and I just recently remembered that nunchaku were in the game because there's only 2. But rather than make more (potentially better) additions to an existing weapon type, DE chooses to either create new weapon types or to make more dual swords and polearms.  The game is becoming over saturated with new weapon types that get forgotten almost instantly. I think a few things need to be done fix the issues with weapons

1. As the title states, DE needs to stop making new weapons. Take the upcoming two handed katana for example. Realistically, there's no reason it shouldn't just be a heavy blade. If they specifically wanted it to have a katana moveset and feel then they should just make new stance. This not only reduces the amount of weapon types but also benefits other heavy blades which would now have a new stance to play with. If a weapon plays reasonably similar to another existing weapon type then there's no reason to make a new weapon type. 
2. Release at least 4 variations of each new weapon type over a period of time after the initial weapon's release. Basically give us a Tenno, Grineer, Corpus, and Infested variation of each weapon type. It's just unacceptable that there are so many old weapon types with only 2 or 3 weapons (like Gunblades). And I get that DE makes whatever weapon types are popular (hence the large number of polearms and dual swords) but some weapons like nunchaku are unpopular because they haven't aged well with the game's absurd power creep.

Overall I think a lot more thought and consideration needs to be put into what weapons are being made, as well as bringing weaker/unpopular weapon types into the forefront.

Edited June 4, 2018 by MickThejaguar
Typos for days

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

Nunchaku is great. With a little reach & spam it hits everything, especially cameras.

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

In regards to the most recent melee creation contest, I was very upset to learn that the Jat Kusar had won. Not due to the fact that I didn't like the weapon. In fact, I loved the idea of a Grineer-type kusarigama. I was upset to find out that it had been by the same person who created the Silva and Aegis. I would've loved to have seen implemented more weapons for forgotten weapon types. Like a Corpus-style scythe. Or one concept I liked for slash nunchaku. 

[Yasha-7HS]

This issue is littered all throughout the game; the making of a concept, the implementation of a concept, and then the abandonment of that concept entirely for months or years in favor of other, old or new, concepts. This is what the state of melee channeling was, and it's finally getting an overhaul only to be promptly forgotten about again weeks after its implemented. 

 

 

[YUNoJump]

I don't think new weapon types are a really a problem, but I definitely agree with the idea that they need to stop churning out polearms and dual swords. Melee weapons are going to get a universal buff pretty soon, so weapons/types you might consider bad now may become completely different after that.

A big part of Warframe's aesthetic is the "cool factor" - adding all sorts of cool-looking and cool-acting weapons is key for allowing people to create their own aesthetic. I hate the Gunsen because of their stupid little clap at the end of the combos, but their existence allows people to cosplay Kitana or whatever weeby fan-wielder they like. The giant katana is another aspect of this; it looks cool and weapon nerds can fawn over it's distinctive style.

Add to this the fact that Formas and Rivens allow just about any weapon to become viable with enough effort, and overall different weapon types aren't too much of a problem. In fact, I'd say that having too few weapon types could be a problem: most weapons of the same class are overall very similar (dual swords notably has very little in the way of uniqueness), which means that if you don't like that type of weapon's style, you're out of luck in having fun with it. Multiple weapon types allow for a more organic choice of favourite weapon, based on how the combos flow and move rather than just "best stats". 

[MickThejaguar]

1 minute ago, YUNoJump said:

I don't think new weapon types are a really a problem, but I definitely agree with the idea that they need to stop churning out polearms and dual swords. Melee weapons are going to get a universal buff pretty soon, so weapons/types you might consider bad now may become completely different after that.

A big part of Warframe's aesthetic is the "cool factor" - adding all sorts of cool-looking and cool-acting weapons is key for allowing people to create their own aesthetic. I hate the Gunsen because of their stupid little clap at the end of the combos, but their existence allows people to cosplay Kitana or whatever weeby fan-wielder they like. The giant katana is another aspect of this; it looks cool and weapon nerds can fawn over it's distinctive style.

Well the idea isn't stop making new weapons altogether but to stop making new weapon types. If a new weapon being made can fit into a pre-existing type it should be put there. The Gunsen couldn't be fit into any existing role so they're fine but warfans shouldn't be forgotten about. And that's the problem I'm talking about. If a weapon type fails upon release or has a bad stance (like the Gunsen) it still won't get used much besides fashion frame. And aesthetics are cool but they shouldn't be the sole basis of a weapon's existence.  

10 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Add to this the fact that Formas and Rivens allow just about any weapon to become viable with enough effort, and overall different weapon types aren't too much of a problem. In fact, I'd say that having too few weapon types could be a problem: most weapons of the same class are overall very similar (dual swords notably has very little in the way of uniqueness), which means that if you don't like that type of weapon's style, you're out of luck in having fun with it. Multiple weapon types allow for a more organic choice of favourite weapon, based on how the combos flow and move rather than just "best stats".

If they simply added a new stance with every new weapon that they wanted to feel different that could still fit in an already existing type, that would solve the problem of weapons feeling similar. Stances are what really effect how a weapon feels and moves so that is what should be added to change a weapon's feel. It'd be more annoying to have choose a between good stats with a bad moveset or bad stats with a good moveset. That hurts customisability far more. Again going back to what I originally said with the new two handed katana, that weapon has a close enough appearance to a heavy blade that it probably could function as one. If they made it a heavy blade and released it's new stance as a heavy blade stance then we'd still have a new weapon with a new playstyle but this new playstyle is also usable for people maybe like the feel but don't like the appearance or stats of the katana itself. 

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Evilpricetag said:

Nunchaku is great. With a little reach & spam it hits everything, especially cameras.

They are good on console right now....

Try them after they shove this patch through in a week or two that prevents hits registering if there is anything including enemies between you and a target, the crowd controlling aspect of the nunchaku will be elliminated and you will be swarmed and destroyed. In a lot of ways these chages are deliberately hostile to anyone who prefers a melee heavy play style...

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Echo_X said:

They are good on console right now....

Try them after they shove this patch through in a week or two that prevents hits registering if there is anything including enemies between you and a target, the crowd controlling aspect of the nunchaku will be elliminated and you will be swarmed and destroyed. In a lot of ways these chages are deliberately hostile to anyone who prefers a melee heavy play style...

I am worried a little, I feel explosive element for aoe will be my cc friend soon.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

As rabid as it's being defended I'm not hearing a lot of people who are melee heavy players defending it.. I'm not talking about exploiters but rather players who's frame (warcry kitty prime, maybe inaros, a few others) are built for melee or because melee is just their favorite play style... Who have much good to say about it... A lot of them are defending it with "well they're increasing the base damage and range of most weapons so that will balance out..." but they're putting out a nerf without buffs that will support it, and frankly we don't know if it will "ultimately be wroth it..."... Explosive damage will help but it's not going to be great for most weapons.. I can't even imagine how much this nerf has probably effected glaives...

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Echo_X said:

As rabid as it's being defended I'm not hearing a lot of people who are melee heavy players defending it.. I'm not talking about exploiters but rather players who's frame (warcry kitty prime, maybe inaros, a few others) are built for melee or because melee is just their favorite play style... Who have much good to say about it... A lot of them are defending it with "well they're increasing the base damage and range of most weapons so that will balance out..." but they're putting out a nerf without buffs that will support it, and frankly we don't know if it will "ultimately be wroth it..."... Explosive damage will help but it's not going to be great for most weapons.. I can't even imagine how much this nerf has probably effected glaives...

Glaives arent about range? they have a punch through mod for a reason they should be relatively unaffected. But I see what you saying, I think melee is easier on console so we will see when we get the update I run Ash & Nikana only, often.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

20 minutes ago, (XB1)Evilpricetag said:

Glaives arent about range? they have a punch through mod for a reason they should be relatively unaffected. But I see what you saying, I think melee is easier on console so we will see when we get the update I run Ash & Nikana only, often.

The thing is I think right now that power throw only effects the "thrown" glaive, You throw it, it blows up when it hits an object it can't punch through, it returns. Because up until now, all melee weapons had punch through, my suspicion is that just standard meleeing with the glaive which I call "buzzsaw yoyo" when you use it like this, will suffer from the same debuff... But as you say, we will wait and see what ultimately happens...

[Fallen_Echo]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Echo_X said:

As rabid as it's being defended I'm not hearing a lot of people who are melee heavy players defending it.. I'm not talking about exploiters but rather players who's frame (warcry kitty prime, maybe inaros, a few others) are built for melee or because melee is just their favorite play style... Who have much good to say about it... A lot of them are defending it with "well they're increasing the base damage and range of most weapons so that will balance out..." but they're putting out a nerf without buffs that will support it, and frankly we don't know if it will "ultimately be wroth it..."... Explosive damage will help but it's not going to be great for most weapons.. I can't even imagine how much this nerf has probably effected glaives...

Glavies are the least affected because they have a punchthrought mod, its the medium and long range weapons what are mostly ****ed.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

2 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Glavies are the least affected because they have a punchthrought mod, its the medium and long range weapons what are mostly ****ed.

Well you're playing on pc so you'd know, id mostly just figured the punch through mod would only effect the "charged throw", atleast it's not totally effed up then.. Thanks for the input.....

You know. I really don't understand why they would institute a fairly draconian nerf when the supposed "rework and buffs" that are supposed to mitigate them from the perspective of the player won't be instituted for months...  I see no logic in that. It's like throwing away your cell phone because you plan to get a new one in October. Wait until you're ready to get the new phone before you throw away the one you have.

[Fallen_Echo]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Echo_X said:

Well you're playing on pc so you'd know, id mostly just figured the punch through mod would only effect the "charged throw", atleast it's not totally effed up then.. Thanks for the input.....

You know. I really don't understand why they would institute a fairly draconian nerf when the supposed "rework and buffs" that are supposed to mitigate them from the perspective of the player won't be instituted for months...  I see no logic in that. It's like throwing away your cell phone because you plan to get a new one in October. Wait until you're ready to get the new phone before you throw away the one you have.

DE works the same way as impulse buyers. Quick and sudden decisions without thinking stuff throught, playtesting it or making the effort to make sure it works well, its either a success or a success because failure is not in their dictionary they rather not talk about a problem at all than go and admit it was a bad idea.

[KnightCole]

Definitely stop making new weapons if they arent going to make it good enough to actually be useful.

I dont mind 150 weapons, or a new weapon a month, but ffs, make it more then mastery fodder. 

They recently buffed alot of older weapons but still some of them could use more tuning. 

 

[LuckyCharm]

So as someone who mostly melees everything possible I very much would rather DE work on a ton of new stances for existing types than new weapon types. Maybe even combine a few categories so you have more stance variety. Machettes for example I always felt could just be singlesword stances. There's literally no reason to differentiate the two. Polearms and staves in this game are pretty much the same too. It would have been much more fitting to add longspear stances instead since well a bladed staff is still just a staff..just with blades. Some staves have headpieces on each end anyway. 

Probably my biggest peeve though is creating weapon types halfheartedly. The mios etc seems to hit a whole ton more with its little hook than it does with the blade, at least for me. And the sword and board stances really are making abysmal use of the shield. Where are the shield bashes and knockbacks or staggers? 

And youre right, the nodachi stance really would work on most of the heavy blades because the handles are in the same places and theyre usually just as big

[Avlaen]

Only 2 rapiers to, and 2 gunblades, and 1 fan.

 

I agree that the new great nikana could just be a heavy stance and the new weapon be a heavy blade

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

On 2018-06-04 at 11:18 AM, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

In regards to the most recent melee creation contest, I was very upset to learn that the Jat Kusar had won. Not due to the fact that I didn't like the weapon. In fact, I loved the idea of a Grineer-type kusarigama. I was upset to find out that it had been by the same person who created the Silva and Aegis. I would've loved to have seen implemented more weapons for forgotten weapon types. Like a Corpus-style scythe. Or one concept I liked for slash nunchaku. 

to be fair, the sword and whip has less weapons than the sword and shield. and the scythe kinda got a new addition in the form of a zaw