[DE]Danielle

Dev Workshop: Virtual Cursor Action Plan

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il y a 48 minutes, [DE]Danielle a dit :

It’s been over 24 hours since we launched the UI and virtual cursor changes in Update 22.20.6 on PS4 and Xbox One, and we’ve been closely reading your feedback (Forums, Twitter, in-game chat, etc.) and furiously taking notes as it continues to roll in in droves. Coinciding feedback points from our PC Controller users have also been included in our readings, as the goal of unifying controls across all Platforms was our intention from the start within the future greater UI overhaul scheme.  

But we do feel we missed the mark on this first attempt. So, while we are keeping to our original goal, we understand that in order to fully meet it improvements are needed. 

That said, the following is a list of priority changes (based largely on your feedback) that we’ve started working on implementing:  

  • Restoring button shortcuts in the Arsenal. 
  • Adding content preview on hover in Relic selection screens (choosing a Relic is done by selecting it). 
  • Changing “preview” and “select” to be independent of one another in the Arsenal item selection (separate bindings displayed in bottom right of screen in Arsenal).
  • Right Trigger will rotate your Warframe in the Arsenal while browsing item grid. 
  • Removing the need to hold down X (PS4) / A (XB1) + drag in order to select a Mod in the Modding UI. Instead, selecting a Mod will make it stick to your cursor like it used to, allowing you to move it with cursor control or D-Pad. Additionally, hitting “back” will deselect the Mod from your cursor without exiting the screen. 
  • Fixing D-Pad landing on invisible items on the bottom of grids (long term goal as requires a lot of testing for a global change).

This is just the start of what you can expect in terms of changes. We’ve been hard at work to get these launched on console as soon as possible (in a hotfix tonight!), while some changes may come in later hotfixes/updates as they require more time to implement and test. PC Tenno, you can expect these changes in a future update (along with the D-Pad support originally announced in the dedicated Dev Workshop). We will be watching for your feedback on the above changes as well.

We do also want to thank you tremendously for your patience as we continue to work on changes. There’s no denying this was a rocky start with the original launch, but we’re hopeful that with some time and care, we can get it to a much better place for all of you.

5:22 PM ET Edit: Hotfixes have been deployed on PS4 and XB1!

Thanks for all

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21 minutes ago, (PS4)Ishimura_Elite said:

So the way they're fixing this new UI is to make it more like the old one they just replaced.

Why don't you just completely remove the cursor like you should, DE? This is a console, not a PC. Cursors on have no place on consoles. Don't try to save this system. Just remove it.

This 1000 times over.

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Another issue that could be looked at is d-pad scrolling in the foundry, again the d-pad is very limited in this build and I feel that's because you want people to use the cursor / joysticks more which really doesn't feel good for menu browsing on a controller. The d-pad controllers need to be more prominent. 

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The hot key in arsenal is the big one for me. That alone would make this tremendously more manageable. 

Some people are unable to unequip weapons now. Any idea why?

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Nice to see the first changes.

 

Still cant mode correctly like before, with the new hotfix you can't remove the mod by pressing triangle on PS4, its huge bug because you cant change mods now.

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

The hot key in arsenal is the big one for me. That alone would make this tremendously more manageable. 

Some people are unable to unequip weapons now. Any idea why?

Think it’s just a glitch.

 Pretty sure they said they were aware of it though!

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Cynicaid said:

Where is the option to completely disable this? A cursor is a waste of dev and player time.

100% agree with you. NO NEED FOR IT AT ALL.

 

I hope the understand that nobody liked it. 

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First off, I just wanna say thank you for the quick response and I hope everything stays constructive. Here are some issues I'm still encountering:

  • The chat menu is slow to navigate still, and picking between options and players can be frustrating. We've had difficulty inviting people to clan on account of this.
  • I can't rotate my frame while previewing a color, I have to choose one.
  • To unequip weapons/armor I have to click "none" and then click somewhere outside the menu. Pressing "none" on its own does nothing, and pressing circle leaves my previous item equipped. Fixed.
  • Edit: Can't sell partial stacks of items from inventory, it now sells the whole stack or nothing at all.
  • More edit: Can't scroll chat in load screens.
  • Revenge of the Edit: Editing sigils/anything with slider bars is kinda wonky. D-Pad will click to the "middle" of the bar, but it's slightly left of center. Clicking the bar's left arrow seems to move the bar a fixed amount, clicking the right arrow moves it more slowly in a more arbitrary fashion.
  • Goblet of Edit: Pressing square to preview isn't my favorite thing.
  • Edit5: Simulacrum enemy level setting would benefit from keyboard usage vs. tabbing left/right.
  • The Edits of Winter: Can't rotate operator unless you highlight the sigil section first.
  • Edi7: Clicking chat links with cursor is inconsistent, sometimes it refuses to bring up a linked item.
  • EDIT-8 The Ocho: Hitting triangle to try and remove one mod sometimes removes all mods. Might be bad aim on my part but it's not often I want to remove my whole build, and it's a pain when it happens.
  • Nine Inch Edit: On PoE, setting waypoint with plains map puts waypoint where center of screen is instead of using reticle.
  • Edit Day Forecast: Still need to double click to equip arcanes.
  • Edit up to 11 - that's one higher: Can't tag resources/mods I've already picked up for allies to see.
  • An Edit a dozen: Switching weapon/frame configs with L1/R1 feels wonky sometimes. Have to highlight equipped mods first.
  • Edit the 13th: Might not be relevant here, but putting up displays in orbiter is a nightmare because they're always parallel to the ground, not the walls, despite changing settings. Don't even get me started on how weird surface snapping gets with them.
  • I don't have anything clever for Edit 14: Can't scroll chat and fly. Dunno why this wasn't higher on my list.
  • Beware the Edits of March: Can't leave squad sometimes after switching to public.

If I think of anything else, I'll add it here.

 

Edited by (PS4)RookTheKnight
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First of all, as a gamer who has gone from playing destiny and nba 2k to almost exclusively warframe, thank you DE for listening to your community! I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to play a game you love but have a developer ruin that experience because they care more about making money than being transparent and really listening to their fans. To have a solid hot fix less than 24 hours of the issue completely surpassed my expectations based on my experience with the former titles. If you take care of the community, the community will take care of you.

While I think this hot fix is a very good compromise between what we expect as console gamers and your intent, I would like to suggest one minor change: if possible, please allow us to use the L1&R1 buttons to rotate our warframe while previewing syandanas and/or weapons. The R2 button is a good start for that functionality, but having the ability to rotate either direction is more fluid than having to rotate completely in one direction.

tl;dr thank you for your hard work and please allow us to rotate our warframes while previewing items with L1&R1 instead of just R2

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Great, thanks for listening and rolling out changes fairly quickly.

@[DE]Danielle A couple of extra issues that don’t seem to be mentioned yet are the dpad not working as intended on some menus with variable button sizes (see tweet below) and the cursor not being able to keep up with dpad input in mod screen. As there is a lag, not all inputs are actually performed: e.g. right x3 down x1 only moves the cursor right x1 down x1, as the cursor is so slow moving that all right presses are made in the time it takes for the cursor to move the one mod across. (Sorry I don’t have video, but try it for yourself, it was reapeatable every time for me)

As you can see, once the cursor reaches “view mission progress”, pressing up on dpad causes the cursor to move to the closest thing directly upwards, which is communication, completely bypassing options.

I don’t know how exactly to fix this, as I don’t know what you can and can’t do, but as an amateur I would recommend it to be actually locked to vertical navigation to remedy the issue.

Thanks again for working so quickly on these, I look forward to seeing the UI actually working properly again.

 

P.S. On a side note, is it possible for hover to preview to be a function on Arsenal as well as Relic Select? There’s no reason to have preview bound to a separate button, and worked fine on the old system, why change it now? Otherwise it’s just another inconvenience.

Thanks again for working so quickly on this.

Edit: Oh, and one last thing, we still desperately need dpad force scrolling. Juggling it and the right stick is not exactly fun.

Edited by (PS4)doctor_em-15
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7 minutes ago, (PS4)Anmateo715 said:

 I would like to suggest one minor change: if possible, please allow us to use the L1&R1 buttons to rotate our warframe while previewing syandanas and/or weapons. The R2 button is a good start for that functionality, but having the ability to rotate either direction is more fluid than having to rotate completely in one direction.

Aren’t bumpers already bound though? It might make more sense for it to be L2 and R2, or even touchpad, I don’t know exactly, but there’s probably some unbound button that’s available.

I can’t remember if L2 is actually bound, but it would definitely make sense to use it that way.

 

Anyway, TL:DR I second this, dual rotation is definitely needed, but there might be a better button allocation for it.

Edited by (PS4)doctor_em-15

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Really good start, guys! Awesome job and quick reaction!

 

Just being able to rotate my frame while customizing would be enough to bring a smile to my face!

Edited by (XB1)INe Saninus

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I, personally, love the cursor update. Don't be discouraged DE!

Keep in mind everyone that this isn't just to unify and pull our releases closer to PC but it is a big part of the new interface in the works. Our current menus are kinda clunky - hence the smoother movement feeling extremely awkward. The new menus going by everything shown will be much more fluid and meld well with the cursor update.

Also remember, free cursor movement is NOT just a PC thing. Many, many console games have it. It's just new to Warframe console. 

There's definitely some glitches and things that need some fixes. I love the hotfixes already released taking care of some of the more major issues. I do have a few non-cursor related bugs I've run into.

> Dojo Lighting/Shadows - Working on my dojo with our new toys, I noticed some really odd shadow and lighting that isn't working properly where they are going through supposedly solid surfaces. This creates some crazy pitch black zones and areas where light shouldn't be.

> Dojo New Lighting Config - There's a curious bug where whatever my accent lighting color is set to also makes things within a pillar sized area glow with that lighting. I believe it is the Grandest Hall up on the middle high platform. I have a banner and my trading post and they are absolutely radiant!

I've got a variety of screenshots I'll try to put on a thread later. I'll add more as I run into things. 

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For everyone who doesn't like the cursor, just know that Bungie, via Destiny, popularized it.

Also, do you not notice your Warframe's head looking at where the cursor is?

Irrelevant note: when will we be able to add the ESC menu animation as an emote to the emote wheel?

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Thank you, thank you, thank you! It's not perfect, but this is a step in the right direction... No, actually it's a huge leap. The only other critique that I could toss at you guys is the move from navigation to squad, it would be awesome if you could allow the cursor to move up to the squad section seamlessly. Maybe it is asking for too much, but it would be awesome if that was a thing.  I am not going to lie, yesterday I said you pulled a Bungie... But I was so very wrong. I'm sorry, I take that back, I was frustrated, annoyed, confused.. But you totally came thru for us. Please forgive me! <3

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Thanks for making this unplayable update barely playable.

It needs WAY more D-Pad support to be enjoyable. Right now the D-Pad is used to move and snap the cursor to the closest thing in that direction and just breaks in multiple spots and does not work at all. The D-Pad and the cursor needs to have separate functionality.

As for the comment about Destiny popularizing it. Just because another game has it does not mean its a good idea. One of the reasons I did not get into Destiny is the repetitiveness and the very clunky UI. That kind of UI is not meant for a console.

Edited by (PS4)vladofstafford
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1 minute ago, (PS4)vladofstafford said:

Thanks for making this unplayable update barely playable.

It needs WAY more D-Pad support to be enjoyable. Right now the D-Pad is used to move to snap the cursor to the closest thing in that direction and just breaks in multiple spots and does not work at all.

As for the comment about Destiny popularizing it. Just because another game has it does not mean its a good idea. One of the reasons I did not get into Destiny is the repetitiveness and the very clunky UI. That kind of UI is not meant for a console.

Cursors imo will never feel good or work for a controller. I have yet to play a game that has a cursor that feels good and I've played Destiny lol. 

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I been playing for about 5 months coming from D2,this game its pretty awesome based on my experiences in pc mmorpgs,this cursor attemp i think was completely unnecessary due to the fact that the regular way its fast and effective. It felt like a step backwards to making a simple action more complicated. Like going from smart phones to flip 1st gen motorolas. Instead concentrate on original ship interiors instead of the 1 interior all ships have per say. Concentrate on making the graphics amazing. More content and stuff like crafting more than one item at the time when you can craft multiple of the same. Move forward not backwards.

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I'm looking forward to the new UI, it looks so slick! The cursor will be a big part of it and it seems you're trying to figure out how you're going to implement it on our consoles. The fact that your listening and reacting to our feedback, is simply amazing. Thank you. You have big decisions to make, but you care about our opinions and that means a lot. Try to keep up the good job and I would like to add another tip: Please take this opportunity to make selling duplicate mods easier. It has got even worse with the cursor update (HUGE hassle!).

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)vladofstafford said:

Thanks for making this unplayable update barely playable.

It needs WAY more D-Pad support to be enjoyable. Right now the D-Pad is used to move to snap the cursor to the closest thing in that direction and just breaks in multiple spots and does not work at all.

As for the comment about Destiny popularizing it. Just because another game has it does not mean its a good idea. One of the reasons I did not get into Destiny is the repetitiveness and the very clunky UI. That kind of UI is not meant for a console.

Unplayable? I think not. It was perfectly playable just very different and a little tedious in spots. The d-pad functionality definitely needs some additional tweaking.

Bungie might have made it popular but it has been a part of console games for a good while. It has nothing to do with being a PC only thing. It's just the only way PC has been able to operate. 

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