DE, your development process needs a rework.

[(PSN)Warframe2052018]

14 hours ago, rune_me said:

I do to. There are many games with a great story, well written quests and good lore. But I do not at all consider Warframe such a game. The quests are not interesting. I am not even remotely invested in the lore, which is just your usual sci-fi drivel, and I don't care at all about any of the characters. It fit neatly into the "shallow but fun shooter" genre for me. If I want story, I'll look elsewhere.

You have said it yourself, ironically enough, that you PERSONALLY don't like the lore. That is your PERSONAL opinion. Doesn't make the lore bad. Doesn't make it a "sci-fi drivel" for everyone. It is strictly your choice. Your opinion. Not a fact. Don't push it on others in order to look smart about DE's development choices. It doesn't help your argument. 

 

As for OP, I 100% agree. Looking at the company reviews, their general yearly roster and everthing, DE has management problems which they do need to address. As the game grows more popular, expectations rise with it. Even if we ignore the demand of the playerbase, DE's lack of proper time management does not look good to other publishers. Specially of they ever choose to do short projects for other publishers again. This does not mean DE is bad. This does not mean DE is incompetent. They are very good at what they are doing. No company is perfect, and for DE, time management is the problem they should try to fix or at least better. 

[Atekron]

make sense, but what if making as much hype and ramping up are DE goals? 

[Teoarrk]

They need to work a lot on their oversight. If what I've heard is true, most DE staff don't get an overview perspective on things until they see a devstream. Thats why the Dev heads address their coworkers directly during streams. I think that even a shorthand memo would be better than having to catch a livestream during your workday. 

[Dallyoop]

17 hours ago, SoulEchelon said:

This is the most negative and assumption-filled post I've read in a long time. TWW, the most recent big story update, had us doing many new and unique mechanics. Whether that's the same for The Sacrifice, I don't know. From the sound of it, you're comparing huge story quests with quests to obtain certain warframes. Apples and oranges.

As for the lore, it's not that hard to follow it if you desire to do so. While cryptic, everything so far has tied together surprisingly well. The biggest pieces we're missing have hints in the game and in those comics that have been released. Hell, people have already done the hard work for you by putting it all together. We got a healthy amount of loremongers in our community. That all said - Assuming the creator of the story doesn't understand their own story simply because you fail to do so is a bit much don't you think?

Oooooh am I comparing apple and oranges? 

I seem to recall in the war within, which I just replayed yesterday, I went on 2 capture missions to get the shades of Teshin. Then I went on a defence mission when I got to the kuva palace, THEN I went on what was basically a sabotage. Then, I did the exact same mission that I did in chains of harrow, kill some minions, shoot something with my amp.

And while it isn't a "Cinematic" quest, let's talk about chains of Harrow because it's an example of how MOST the quests in Warframe operate. 1 defence and 4 capture missions. That's what it was. Yes, there was some other cool stuff too, but boiled down, that's what it was. 

Soooo, negative? Yes. Correct? Also yes.

I'm not saying that there isn't other stuff as well, but DE's quests are filled with a LOT of padding. 

I could point out all the padding in the second dream as well, but I think I've made my point that other than the little tid bits that are unique (usually to teach you a new mechanic). The quests in Warframe aren't anything to get to excited for. Therefore, people should manage their expectations appropriately. Honestly, I'm more excited for the changes to Limbo and getting my hands on Limbo Prime. 

 

As for the lore bits, I've watched all the lore vids from the big youtubers, I've read all the codex for myself and the Samaris codex, i've read every entry on the wiki. While interesting, it's thin. VERY thin and filled with a lot of speculation. And I don't care about the comics, if there is going to be lore, it should be given to me IN GAME. I understand what lore there is, there just isn't very much of it. 

Now, maybe if they started bring back events other than the same Ghoul event, and added some more quests that aren't just to release warframes, but for the sake of teaching us some lore, I would be down for that. Maybe a new type of mission where you are trying to extract, but your warframe is injured so it's in a down state and you are trying to stop a swarm of enemies from killing you before you can extract. (not a whole level to traverse, but kinda like, you see the extraction point, but you have to make it down the hall, or across the room or something without dying and all you have is your secondary.) Or you have to rescue someone, but they are injured so you have to carry them like in TWW and you have no weapons because your hands are full, so you have to try not to be seen. (invis wouldn't work because the person you are carrying could still be seen) so you have to go from cover to cover. Maybe in the Kuva fortress so you have the added challenge of the beams to dodge. 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Dallyoop

[SenorClipClop]

23 hours ago, Blade said:

Going forward, I think that it would be beneficial for DE to give themselves more time than they need, to have an INTERNAL RELEASE DATE (read project deadline), and not one that is publicly announced. This way they have the option to work on it at their pace, without the community breathing down their neck as badly as they are right now, and if they ever happen to finish working on a project ahead of the planned deadline, then they can drop it as a pleasant surprise for everyone. 

Deadlines aren't as hard on free content since nobody's pre-ordered and no investors are losing money. Nobody's buying the expansion, so the only downside is having to wait for the finished product. I highly doubt DE has no internal release date goals. And while it would be cool to get major updates as a surprise, I know a lot of players would get annoyed at this. Many players want to play updates as soon as they drop, so having at least a little notice lets them set aside time in their (often) busy lives to play it when it's fresh (or after a couple same-week fixes).

[ShogunGunshow]

The sheer entitlement people feel towards not just content, but free content, is eye rolling.

I don't know why this surprises me anymore, because there's one of these threads every major patch, but jeez.

Veteran tip: if they say "this week", it's probably Thursday, Friday, or will be delayed till the next Monday/Tuesday if they run into a critical bug.

Get used to it.

[SoulEchelon]

1 hour ago, Dallyoop said:

Oooooh am I comparing apple and oranges? 

I seem to recall in the war within, which I just replayed yesterday, I went on 2 capture missions to get the shades of Teshin. Then I went on a defence mission when I got to the kuva palace, THEN I went on what was basically a sabotage. Then, I did the exact same mission that I did in chains of harrow, kill some minions, shoot something with my amp.

And while it isn't a "Cinematic" quest, let's talk about chains of Harrow because it's an example of how MOST the quests in Warframe operate. 1 defence and 4 capture missions. That's what it was. Yes, there was some other cool stuff too, but boiled down, that's what it was. 

Soooo, negative? Yes. Correct? Also yes.

I'm not saying that there isn't other stuff as well, but DE's quests are filled with a LOT of padding. 

I could point out all the padding in the second dream as well, but I think I've made my point that other than the little tid bits that are unique (usually to teach you a new mechanic). The quests in Warframe aren't anything to get to excited for. Therefore, people should manage their expectations appropriately. Honestly, I'm more excited for the changes to Limbo and getting my hands on Limbo Prime. 

 

As for the lore bits, I've watched all the lore vids from the big youtubers, I've read all the codex for myself and the Samaris codex, i've read every entry on the wiki. While interesting, it's thin. VERY thin and filled with a lot of speculation. And I don't care about the comics, if there is going to be lore, it should be given to me IN GAME. I understand what lore there is, there just isn't very much of it. 

Now, maybe if they started bring back events other than the same Ghoul event, and added some more quests that aren't just to release warframes, but for the sake of teaching us some lore, I would be down for that. Maybe a new type of mission where you are trying to extract, but your warframe is injured so it's in a down state and you are trying to stop a swarm of enemies from killing you before you can extract. (not a whole level to traverse, but kinda like, you see the extraction point, but you have to make it down the hall, or across the room or something without dying and all you have is your secondary.) Or you have to rescue someone, but they are injured so you have to carry them like in TWW and you have no weapons because your hands are full, so you have to try not to be seen. (invis wouldn't work because the person you are carrying could still be seen) so you have to go from cover to cover. Maybe in the Kuva fortress so you have the added challenge of the beams to dodge. 

 

1. You're completely omitting the meat of TWW, where we're introduced to Tenno gameplay as well as a number of completely new and unique mechanics (That haven't been re-introduced yet sadly). Opinionated Omissions =/= Fault of the Omitted. Also, Chains of Harrow wouldn't be considered a TWW-tier questline and yet even then - your glaring omissions only add a spotlight to your general negativity.

Sooo Negative? Yes. Correct? No, because you're stating opinions instead of facts. You can't be "Correct" about an opinion. The only "fact" you've stated so far is that quests have a variety of missions connected to them, which no one is arguing about.

2. Your opinions are just that - your opinions. Don't sit there and look down at those who enjoy something you don't. If people want to get excited, let them. No one's demanding you to do the same. You shouldn't make such demands either.

3. Saying "I don't care about a large piece of the lore" and then try to argue it's "thin" or lackluster undermines your point completely. The lore is supposed to be mysterious and even cryptic at times so that players can speculate among themselves about what is or will happen next. There are many games, movies, books and so on that do this sort of story telling. Dark Souls, a game series praised for both its gameplay and its intriguing world, does the same thing.

That said, there's more than enough lore - even without the comics - that pieces together much of the Warframe universe. We know who the Lotus is, know who we as Tenno are, know who the Grineer, Corpus, and Infested are as well as their general origins. We know what's inside a Warframe, what's behind the Sentients, and why Tenno were put in The Dream in the first place. All of this and more is readily available ingame through quests, scanning codex entries, and the codex itself.

4. You complain about "padding' and yet demand more missions that involve said "padding". DE has introduced tons of different mission types that end up being used to "pad" quests. You're suggesting they add yet more mission types (that's basically just Defense and Rescue with modifiers) so that what - the "padding" as you call it has more variety? You're contradicting yourself here. Not only that, both of those suggested missions directly hinder the player, thus most players would balk at having to do them over and over. The Second Dream's "Carry your Tenno" moment was fun and exhilarating because it was brand new, and not something we as players got to ever see happening. Would I like to do that over and over like with Defense or Sabotage missions? No, not really.

The reason why "padding" exists is because if they did not do so, players will bumrush through everything even faster than they already do. I'm all for more mission types that do this, but it seriously sounds like you either aren't entirely sure what YOU want, or you're just burned out and annoyed everyone else isn't.

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by SoulEchelon

[Dallyoop]

39 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

 

1. You're completely omitting the meat of TWW, where we're introduced to Tenno gameplay as well as a number of completely new and unique mechanics (That haven't been re-introduced yet sadly). Opinionated Omissions =/= Fault of the Omitted. Also, Chains of Harrow wouldn't be considered a TWW-tier questline and yet even then - your glaring omissions only add a spotlight to your general negativity.

Sooo Negative? Yes. Correct? No, because you're stating opinions instead of facts. You can't be "Correct" about an opinion. The only "fact" you've stated so far is that quests have a variety of missions connected to them, which no one is arguing about.

2. Your opinions are just that - your opinions. Don't sit there and look down at those who enjoy something you don't. If people want to get excited, let them. No one's demanding you to do the same. You shouldn't make such demands either.

3. Saying "I don't care about a large piece of the lore" and then try to argue it's "thin" or lackluster undermines your point completely. The lore is supposed to be mysterious and even cryptic at times so that players can speculate among themselves about what is or will happen next. There are many games, movies, books and so on that do this sort of story telling. Dark Souls, a game series praised for both its gameplay and its intriguing world, does the same thing.

That said, there's more than enough lore - even without the comics - that pieces together much of the Warframe universe. We know who the Lotus is, know who we as Tenno are, know who the Grineer, Corpus, and Infested are as well as their general origins. We know what's inside a Warframe, what's behind the Sentients, and why Tenno were put in The Dream in the first place. All of this and more is readily available ingame through quests, scanning codex entries, and the codex itself.

4. You complain about "padding' and yet demand more missions that involve said "padding". DE has introduced tons of different mission types that end up being used to "pad" quests. You're suggesting they add yet more mission types (that's basically just Defense and Rescue with modifiers) so that what - the "padding" as you call it has more variety? You're contradicting yourself here. Not only that, both of those suggested missions directly hinder the player, thus most players would balk at having to do them over and over. The Second Dream's "Carry your Tenno" moment was fun and exhilarating because it was brand new, and not something we as players got to ever see happening. Would I like to do that over and over like with Defense or Sabotage missions? No, not really.

The reason why "padding" exists is because if they did not do so, players will bumrush through everything even faster than they already do. I'm all for more mission types that do this, but it seriously sounds like you either aren't entirely sure what YOU want, or you're just burned out and annoyed everyone else isn't.

 

1 - You obviously missed this line...

"I'm not saying that there isn't other stuff as well, but DE's quests are filled with a LOT of padding." 

 "...other than the little tid bits that are unique (usually to teach you a new mechanic). The quests in Warframe aren't anything to get to excited for."

I omitted nothing. I'm simply pointing out that their "main" quest lines, aren't much different than their other regular quests, except with a little extra and even then, what the hell are you talking about? ALL quests are under scrutiny, not divided into different categories. ALL quests should be interesting and entertaining to the same degree. Hence the comparison. A very FAIR comparison. Reading comprehension much? You are trying to separate the quests into different categories to try and artificially increase the quality of the ones you want to use in your argument. I'm directly saying that there isn't much difference in the core layout of the quests, even in the dichotomy you are trying to create.  

Sooo, still correct!

 

2 - I didn't demand anything, snowflake. If people wanna get hyped, go for it, I'm not stopping them. I'm only pointing out the flaws with the questing system in Warframe and stating why I personally, am not. I'm pretty sure i'm allowed to do that, where ever, and when ever I so choose. If you don't like it, that's your problem, not mine. As for looking down on people, now who is making assumptions there, champ?

 

3 - I don't care about lore that isn't presented in the game, that the lore is suppose to be about. I don't play a video game so I can go read a comic, or a book, or a movie. I play the game because I want to learn about the story, through... *gasp* gameplay. Shocker. I know. Why would anyone want to learn about the world they are playing in, THROUGH the world they are playing in?!?! And from the characters they know and love no less! Shame on me and all you plebs that actually want to get a story in your video game! If you wanna read a comic, cool. Good on ya. But I want to play a game. 

 

4 - I'm not a game designer. I assume that someone who is trained to do so could come up with something better than 4 capture missions and a boss fight though. Compelling quest gameplay, is NOT doing the same thing that you would do in the regular game just by running regular missions. Otherwise, why bother make quests? Just have the lotus randomly say quest like stuff while we are playing around in the normal missions. It's. the. same. thing. Though I suspect that this concept is beyond your grasp. Nor did I say that these missions would have to be repeatable within star chart as a whole.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Dallyoop

[Hypernaut1]

All in all, a passionate and growing fan base means they're doing MANY things right. 

Impatient "I want it now" rants actually show how great a job they're doing keeping fans on the edge of thier seats in anticipation. Truth is, they could delay until next month and you'll still play day one.

Why? Because they know far more than you or anyone posting on what it takes to make a great game with an anticipated update schedule.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[SoulEchelon]

2 minutes ago, Dallyoop said:

1 - You obviously missed this line...

"I'm not saying that there isn't other stuff as well, but DE's quests are filled with a LOT of padding." 

 "...other than the little tid bits that are unique (usually to teach you a new mechanic). The quests in Warframe aren't anything to get to excited for."

Then you must've obviously missed this whole entire paragraph.

37 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

4. You complain about "padding' and yet demand more missions that involve said "padding". DE has introduced tons of different mission types that end up being used to "pad" quests. You're suggesting they add yet more mission types (that's basically just Defense and Rescue with modifiers) so that what - the "padding" as you call it has more variety? You're contradicting yourself here. Not only that, both of those suggested missions directly hinder the player, thus most players would balk at having to do them over and over. The Second Dream's "Carry your Tenno" moment was fun and exhilarating because it was brand new, and not something we as players got to ever see happening. Would I like to do that over and over like with Defense or Sabotage missions? No, not really.

The reason why "padding" exists is because if they did not do so, players will bumrush through everything even faster than they already do. I'm all for more mission types that do this, but it seriously sounds like you either aren't entirely sure what YOU want, or you're just burned out and annoyed everyone else isn't.

 

Soooo Still incorrect. Opinions =/= Facts. If you can't understand this one simple truth, then you're not worth my time.

3 minutes ago, Dallyoop said:

2 - I didn't demand anything, snowflake.

 

Annnnd that's that. When someone resorts to insults and name calling while trying to act like their opinions are more important than everyone else's, they've lost my interest. I won't waste more time with you. Good day.

[White_Matter]

History repeats itself. And we never learn.

[Dallyoop]

28 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

Then you must've obviously missed this whole entire paragraph.

Soooo Still incorrect. Opinions =/= Facts. If you can't understand this one simple truth, then you're not worth my time.

Annnnd that's that. When someone resorts to insults and name calling while trying to act like their opinions are more important than everyone else's, they've lost my interest. I won't waste more time with you. Good day.

Hahaha, it's a fact that the quests in warframe are built out of the same building blocks, not opinion. The same star chart missions that we play in the regular game, are in ALL the quests. Whether it is to increase, or pad content play time is immaterial. The point is, you are still playing those same missions. There is nothing opinion about it.

Nor did I say that they (DE) shouldn't do it. I'm simply pointing out that people are getting excited only for the tiny tid bits. I'm placing no negative or positive to this, I'm just stating that it is, in FACT, going to be comprised of the same missions we already do from the star chart. While it is true, I can't know 100%, but I fully believe that Umbra Excalibur, will function the exact same as regular Excalibur, but with a scarf and slightly different stats. These aren't crazy or out there ideas. They are very clear to see. Now, I'm AM interested to see those tid bits, what I am NOT excited for however, is to do 3 exterminate missions, or 3 spy missions, or 4 capture missions. In other words, I would appreciate some variety. 

And snowflake is an an appropriate term I think. It seems to me, that you don't like being challenged in your unwavering loyalty to DE and must rush to it's defence against any who would dare criticise them, which, hey, you do you. But you do know that you can love a game and criticise it as well, yeah? Which I think I have adequately shown that indeed I do love this game, I am rank 24, I have thousands of hours invested in the game, I have bought multiple packs, skins, platinum and prime packages, investing hundreds and hundreds in not over a thousand + dollars on items I didn't even need to because I wanted to support DE. But that doesn't stop me from seeing that it could drastically use some help in the story telling/lore department.Now, before anyone gets butt hurt, let me point out that I say this not to show i'm "looking down on" anyone. Only to illustrate that indeed I care about the state of this game. 

But by all means, please don't waste your time on me. I don't recall asking you to reply in the first place... and you shouldn't talk to people that you don't want to. 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Dallyoop

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, Dallyoop said:

Hahaha, it's a fact that the quests in warframe are built out of the same building blocks, not opinion. The same star chart missions that we play in the regular game, are in ALL the quests. Whether it is to increase, or pad content play time is immaterial. The point is, you are still playing those same missions. There is nothing opinion about it.

Nor did I say that they (DE) shouldn't do it. I'm simply pointing out that people are getting excited only for the tiny tid bits. I'm placing no negative or positive to this, I'm just stating that it is, in FACT, going to be comprised of the same missions we already do from the star chart. While it is true, I can't know 100%, but I fully believe that Umbra Excalibur, will function the exact same as regular Excalibur, but with a scarf and slightly different stats. These aren't crazy or out there ideas. They are very clear to see. Now, I'm AM interested to see those tid bits, what I am NOT excited for however, is to do 3 exterminate missions, or 3 spy missions, or 4 capture missions. In other words, I would appreciate some variety. 

And snowflake is an an appropriate term I think. It seems to me, that you don't like being challenged in your unwavering loyalty to DE and must rush to it's defence against any who would dare criticise them, which, hey, you do you. But you do know that you can love a game and criticise it as well, yeah? Which I think I have adequately shown that indeed I do love this game, I am rank 24, I have thousands of hours invested in the game, I have bought multiple packs, skins, platinum and prime packages, investing hundreds and hundreds in not over a thousand + dollars on items I didn't even need to because I wanted to support DE. But that doesn't stop me from seeing that it could drastically use some help in the story telling/lore department.Now, before anyone gets butt hurt, let me point out that I say this not to show i'm "looking down on" anyone. Only to illustrate that indeed I care about the state of this game. 

But by all means, please don't waste your time on me. I don't recall asking you to reply in the first place... and you shouldn't talk to people that you don't want to. 

Please put your digi-$&*^ measuring sticks away, "snowflake".

We don't need bickering amongst Tenno like this here.  We don't.

[Dallyoop]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Please put your digi-$&*^ measuring sticks away, "snowflake".

We don't need bickering amongst Tenno like this here.  We don't.

It's not bickering Champ, it's a discussion. Or at least it was for me, I can't speak for the other dude. 

If it was bickering, what makes you think that A) We would listen to you? and B) You throwing gas on the fire would help put it out? 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 minutes ago, Dallyoop said:

It's not bickering Champ, it's a discussion. Or at least it was for me, I can't speak for the other dude. 

If it was bickering, what makes you think that A) We would listen to you? and B) You throwing gas on the fire would help put it out? 

1. Don't call me Champ, Champ.
2. I don't give a crap if you listen to me or not.  If you love Warframe as much as you claim to, stop adding to the name-calling and toxicity.  We like the lore and missions.  You don't. The end.
3. I ain't throwing gas on anything.  I'm just calling it out for what it is.  This topic ceased to be a healthy discussion when people started insulting each other.

DE doesn't need a rework.  They clearly are doing just fine.  If you want to come along with 5 years of actual Game Dev experience, or 16+ years of Marketing experience, like I have for example, and decide you know better, we can talk.  Until then, it's just people trying to decide the actions of something much larger than they are without perspective on the issues at hand.

[Dallyoop]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

1. Don't call me Champ, Champ.
2. I don't give a crap if you listen to me or not.  If you love Warframe as much as you claim to, stop adding to the name-calling and toxicity.  We like the lore and missions.  You don't. The end.
3. I ain't throwing gas on anything.  I'm just calling it out for what it is.  This topic ceased to be a healthy discussion when people started insulting each other.

DE doesn't need a rework.  They clearly are doing just fine.  If you want to come along with 5 years of actual Game Dev experience, or 16+ years of Marketing experience, like I have for example, and decide you know better, we can talk.  Until then, it's just people trying to decide the actions of something much larger than they are without perspective on the issues at hand.

1 - Wait, me calling you "Champ" is offending you? Damn, that was easy. 

2 - Covered this already with the other guy. Though it's funny that you still couldn't get it right. Man, maybe I need to start messaging in emojis. Let me be clear as I humanly, possibly can be. I like lore... Warframe needs more lore quests... Warframe needs less repeat missions in their lore quests and more unique missions, even if they are one offs. How is this hard to grasp? I would think a *game dev* would understand this. 

3 - Everyone is a game dev on the internet, also 6'4' and 200 pounds of pure muscle and a full head of hair. *yawn* Who cares?. Even if you were, that doesn't invalidate the fact that missions in Warframe are repeats of the star chart missions with a little extra added in. Why is this so hard for people to understand? It doesn't hurt to admit the short falls of the game. I mean, watch Angry Joe's play through of the chains of Harrow, even he, who barely plays warframe as far as I know, could see that the missions were repetitive. You seem to think that being a "game dev" makes you some kind of an authority, like it gives you a upper hand or something, like you are something special. hahaha. I work on movies, who cares? Doesn't mean that my opinion means more than someone else's when talking about film. Just so i'm clear since it appears people have a hard time grasping simple concepts here... I'm calling you a liar. I don't believe you are a game dev and if you are, i'm sure it's for something like bubble popper or something on a mobile app store, maybe a depression quest sequel?

Edited June 14, 2018 by Dallyoop

[MacVarg]

ok, no offense, but this thread should not exist at least until sunday. There is no point in making this big impassioned complaint when DE has not failed yet, it's a bit preemptive as there is still time in the week.