So, what am I missing about Ballas in that final cutscene?

[thecarrera]

The Orokin was the pinnacle of human evolution where they re-created the human body and "Soul".
The Orokin relives by transferring his or her's consciousness to another body.
If the Grineer can clone, why isn't it to say that the Orokins would be able to recreate or reincarnate their own body?
PS. In the last scene, you can see Ballas being carried away by the Lotus, so I don't think we've seen the last of him.

You get more hints if you read Ordis lore (when you collected all the cephalon fragments, so I'm not gonna spoil anything because it's actually really good)
 

[Sentinel-Wraith]

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Yeah spoilers obviously.

When Ordan Karris stabs Ballas, Ballas dies for about half a second before standing back up and laughing

When we stab Ballas, Ballas is just up and dead. Final death, you could even dub Thanos over it saying "no resurrections this time"

Does our Z-kid like melt his insides with some void energy via a particle effect that didn't actually get rendered? Does Ballas need to be under a Neural Sentry's protection or something? Clearly I'm missing something

If he's dead then why did Natah take the body? I have no doubt he'll be back. I think the bigger question is... where has he been hiding all this time? And, was his statement about Natah manipulating the events true?

[Deathstroke2000]

Ballas has tiny ballas.

[TARINunit9]

35 minutes ago, Sentinel-Wraith said:

If he's dead then why did Natah take the body?

Why did Worm Kween take the Red Kween's body? Likely same answer

[(PSN)vl_Monarch_lv]

It doesn't make any sense because it likely wasn't written to. All the quests are loosely strung together and reek of a lack of foresight. Every is written as it happens.

[Teoarrk]

On 2018-06-15 at 11:22 PM, Urlan said:

Which according to Teshin, only we (at least in Conclave) and Sentient have; it being our Soul energy. We destroy it when be absorb it with our Void energy

From a gameplay standard. If you look at The Cephalon fragments, you'll see that the Orokin elite have oro as well.

[Urlan]

23 minutes ago, Teoarrk said:

From a gameplay standard. If you look at The Cephalon fragments, you'll see that the Orokin elite have oro as well.

I don't recall a Cephalon Fragment that stated Orokin having Oro, mind pointing it out to me?

[Teoarrk]

5 minutes ago, Urlan said:

I don't recall a Cephalon Fragment that stated Orokin having Oro, mind pointing it out to me?

'The applause peaks and fades. I feel a sense of shame but the end upon me. Ballas is above me, Executor of the Seven, smiling. He says, 'How simple and pure you are, you idiot beast. We have died countless times! Yet remain eternal!' I close my eyes to die just once. '

Of course, it is up to interpretation here, but given what we know of Continuity, it would not be possible for it to be carried out if the Orokin in question were dead without something eternal, like a soul, or Oro.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Teoarrk
formatting

[Urlan]

Well, we don't see the Orokin he killed get back up; though considering they probably use Kuva to swap to another body and all; its doubtful the original presenter and crowd are worse for wear in the long-term. We don't have evidence of Oro use in this case; but perhaps. We know from Teshin that Sentient and Tenno are least have such a presence.

[Teoarrk]

1 hour ago, Urlan said:

Well, we don't see the Orokin he killed get back up; though considering they probably use Kuva to swap to another body and all; its doubtful the original presenter and crowd are worse for wear in the long-term. We don't have evidence of Oro use in this case; but perhaps. We know from Teshin that Sentient and Tenno are least have such a presence.

From the war within, worm says something that might be a little misleading given that she seems to like eating Grineer anyway. But whats to say that in the following exchange, she doesn't mean to just simply eat the flesh? Tenno are Orokin after all and it would reason to believe that cannabalism would just as easily be a way of obtaining Oro.

Teshin: The child? For what purpose?
Wormqueen: (laughs) To eat it, of course!
Elderqueen: Hush worm! Do not question your Lords, Teshin Dax. Bring me the orphan. Bring me my Yuvan.

This knowledge must have been passed on to Vor, who misinterpreted that the warframes contained Oro and not the Tenno themselves. 

Spoiler

All warframes built with Kuva may actually contain Oro if my understanding of Umbra is correct.

"Our love will be reborn as we feed on your divine blood. Our children will flourish without disease. And I will die, at last, at peace. Father. Grandfather."

However, blood may also be referencing Kuva, of which the Worm Queen certainly has been gathering a lot of. If we take into consideration that Kuva was used by Ballas to turn Ordan into Ordis, it is likely that it is also an agent for the transfer of Oro.

He calls out, 'No greater gift, no greater prize, no greater love... we can give you, Ordan, than this.' He raises the Red Vial and proclaims... 'To be one of us.' 

If we like these two ideas together, of Oro and Kuva

Spoiler

If I explained my idea properly,

then we can come to the conclusion that Kuva is the agent by which the Oro is transferred between host bodies. However, an Orokin would definitely need an Oro for this to be the case.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Teoarrk

[Urlan]

Kuva seems to be harvested from living organisms, and the Lotus cuts herself from saying the Siphons are absorbings our energy, but I don't think its Oro, as the Unum is a Refined Kuva Temple Tower. It probably gains that from the Ostrons who in turn have your protection and are told to eat sections of her form when needed. As far as we know, Oro is dropped by Sentient as what seems to be their essence which we destroy taking into ourselves and we have no reference to our own Oro outside Teshin saying we have a similar method of coming back. Though, this is said in conclave so even it might be more for the mode and less for story. As far as Continuity goes, it was stated by DE Steve to be related closely to what we use as Transference. The Elder Queen just wanted a better body than the degenerate clones she had been using so far. Worm Queen states that even still, with enough Kuva, she can revive her sister.

[Teoarrk]

6 hours ago, Urlan said:

Kuva seems to be harvested from living organisms, and the Lotus cuts herself from saying the Siphons are absorbings our energy, but I don't think its Oro, as the Unum is a Refined Kuva Temple Tower. It probably gains that from the Ostrons who in turn have your protection and are told to eat sections of her form when needed.

From the Wiki page Kuva, this is what I found:

While the fragments contained within them are not directly involved with the quest itself, the Glass Shards involved in the Saya's Vigil quest reveal that during the last days of the Orokin Empire, the Unum used some of her "Temple Kuva" in an effort to locate a monstrous Sentient, which would terrorize her tower and her people by night but retreat and hide during the day. The Unum instructed her people to feed the Kuva to the local wildlife, connecting her consciousness with them and allowing her to find the Sentient.

This proved to be a double-edged sword, however, as the Sentient discovered that Kuva could restore its ability to reproduce, increasing the intensity of its attacks even further.

It appears I misread the full power of Kuva, but my understanding of giving Kuva to the wildlife was to give the Unum the ability to transfer fractions of her consciousness into the wildlife.

6 hours ago, Urlan said:

As far as we know, Oro is dropped by Sentient as what seems to be their essence which we destroy taking into ourselves and we have no reference to our own Oro outside Teshin saying we have a similar method of coming back. Though, this is said in conclave so even it might be more for the mode and less for story.

I agree, 

6 hours ago, Urlan said:

As far as Continuity goes, it was stated by DE Steve to be related closely to what we use as Transference. The Elder Queen just wanted a better body than the degenerate clones she had been using so far. Worm Queen states that even still, with enough Kuva, she can revive her sister.

Given that the continuity part of the quest happens in the literal expanse of microseconds, this makes sense, however I fail to see how this refutes the presence of an Oro in the Orokin.

The wiki entry for Oro states that anyone touched by the void has an Oro and the Orokin harnessed the power of the void to make the solar rails work, ergo constantly exposing themselves to it. They set up research towers and hiding places in the void, so it is reasonable to believe that they have an Oro, unless touched means bad touch, like losing your parents.

To close out my post, a quote from Teshin:

Oro is the binding force for an enemy who like the Tenno can survive death.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Teoarrk
quote for emphasis.

[Campaigner]

Did you guys read the Crewman Synthesis Imprint?! http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Detron_Crewman

After Ballas pretends to want to terminate the original sentient prototype and the archimedian that created it, the other members of The Seven Executors intervene and decide to fund it, if only to spite Ballas' sense of superiority and confidence. Later, Ballas speaks to the sentient creator;

"You did better than I thought you would," it was Ballas, the man, not the projection. "It would seem nobody truly knows they want a thing until you threaten to take it away." He broke into a smile, "Wouldn't you agree, Archimedian?"

 

Maybe Ballas was caught off-guard in The Sacrifice... or maybe he just pretended to be defeated and dying to make the Lotus finally decide to act in his defense against the Tenno. Did you see how fast a so-called immortal crumpled and lost consciousness after a simple stab? He's a ridiculously clever man.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Campaigner

[ShutUpJade]

3 hours ago, Campaigner said:

Did you see how fast a so-called immortal crumpled and lost consciousness after a simple stab? He's a ridiculously clever man.

I truly believe he's not dead, the man is resilient, but I think this wound wasn't just physical, but psychological/egotistical as well. He truly thought there was no chance that Umbra or the Tenno controlling him could actually hurt him, and once her was proven wrong, he was stricken mentally, which was why he crumpled so quickly. Kind of disappointing to see in a man so clever and dangerous, and definitely a trope, but effective in gaining insight into his character: He's so powerful and clever, and he knows that he is, that after years of largely being unopposed by anyone, this has gotten to his head and could prove a weakness.

[Teoarrk]

51 minutes ago, JDragonkin said:

I truly believe he's not dead, the man is resilient, but I think this wound wasn't just physical, but psychological/egotistical as well. He truly thought there was no chance that Umbra or the Tenno controlling him could actually hurt him, and once her was proven wrong, he was stricken mentally, which was why he crumpled so quickly. Kind of disappointing to see in a man so clever and dangerous, and definitely a trope, but effective in gaining insight into his character: He's so powerful and clever, and he knows that he is, that after years of largely being unopposed by anyone, this has gotten to his head and could prove a weakness.

Well said.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Teoarrk
image looked bad, touched up.

[Sparkyceasar]

Okay can I clear something up, People keep saying that in the cephalon fragments that Ballas died and just got back up, except, he didn't, thats never stated, It says that Ordin was staring at those who remain, meaning that there were orokin he didnt kill, and then he sees Ballas standing over him. It never says that Ballas got back up, It never said anything about Ballas coming back to life, All it says is Ballas saying that the orokin have died countless times. I'm pretty sure that Ballas was in the group that Ordin missed, Lucky us

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On 2018-06-15 at 2:12 PM, DeMonkey said:

The blade is Umbral, I guess, based on it's polarities.

Heavily suggested Void energy from your Operator overcomes the controls and uses the sword as a conduit to stab Ballas...your Operator’s hand aiding in the stab...”Void Devilry”...science and Reason fail in the face of it’s power.

Edited July 7, 2018 by (PS4)Silverback73

[(PSN)D4rk50ul-v2]

I must have played a different quest. Ballas said he made a deal with the enemy multiple times, I'm pretty sure his "body" is sentient modified. If it is mortality is not really a thing from what I can tell. When we stab him I think it's more symbolic than a fatal blow, that Tenno and Warframe have united. He will probably play a role in our motivation to chase into the new star chart tau. 

[TARINunit9]

4 hours ago, Sparkyceasar said:

Okay can I clear something up, People keep saying that in the cephalon fragments that Ballas died and just got back up, except, he didn't, thats never stated, It says that Ordin was staring at those who remain, meaning that there were orokin he didnt kill, and then he sees Ballas standing over him. It never says that Ballas got back up, It never said anything about Ballas coming back to life, All it says is Ballas saying that the orokin have died countless times. I'm pretty sure that Ballas was in the group that Ordin missed, Lucky us

Allow me to refer you to my previous post:

On 2018-06-15 at 11:27 AM, TARINunit9 said:

>'Rise, Ordan Karris.' I have never seen an Orokin, close and in the flesh. My battered face flushes at their peerless beauty. How can he be so perfect? A deception? A sense manipulation? He holds the Red Vial in his hand. Impossible.

>Their radiant bodies become targets, their Dax guards... mag-shields. Killing one... well, that's too easy. I want to be remembered. I raise my hands, twisting my fingers through my hair, gripping the bone-plugs in my neck.

>I glide on red wings. Robes shed, making me an ambiguous target to Dax steel. I let fly my ivory blades, they find new homes in Dax eyes. I land with my red-nakedness, delicate Orokin throats twisting in my calloused hands.

>The plugs are gone, and so I bled my last... into a heap of ruin. In an instant, naked and bare-knuckled, I have killed immortals.

>And so the dream returns... one last repetition. My corpse moon, my scarlet sword, my cracked visor. 'Drink!,' says Ballas. So I draw on the Red Vial, a vague metallic taste.

Ballas is the one holding the Red Vial in the fifth quote, it stands to reason he was the one holding it in the first quote. Also Ordan Karris is able to distinguish between an Orokin Elite and a Dax guard, and brags that he stabbed both of them

Yeah, Ballas got stabbed by Ordan Karris, died, then came back to life and stood back up

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Ballas isn't dead. unfortunately.

he was only stabbed in to gut, it's not like we took his head off. I'm pretty certain that Lotus and the Sentients have the technology to heal a simple stab wound. I absolutely LOVED watching him get shanked though, wiping that smug look off his face and reminding him that he's not in control of everything. "squirm like the Maggot you are!". Ballas is a true villain, and deserves a much slower and more painful demise than he appeared to receive.

that was just a taste, you gilded bastard. next time your head comes off!

[(PSN)nikkokhresna]

If you remember the scene where he said "she had foreseen this" 

I think its his and her plan that we get to wound him. Like 5sec after we wounded him natah showed up? And why she didnt blast us off like she did to umbra?

Instead she goes superman sky rocketing after said she was comin back to grand space mom

[Sparkyceasar]

20 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Allow me to refer you to my previous post:

Yeah, Ballas got stabbed by Ordan Karris, died, then came back to life and stood back up

But it never said specifically that Ballas died, You would think that in a situation like that it would mention Ballas getting back up, but it doesn't.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Sparkyceasar said:

But it never said specifically that Ballas died, You would think that in a situation like that it would mention Ballas getting back up, but it doesn't.

The entire point of the Ordan Karris scene is Ballas getting turned into a pincushion and standing back up like it was nothing. Trying to argue "oh but we never actually physically saw Ballas get his throat slashed" is like when Death Battle pulled that "The point of impact is never directly shown" argument

[NocheLuz]

4 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

The entire point of the Ordan Karris scene is Ballas getting turned into a pincushion and standing back up like it was nothing. Trying to argue "oh but we never actually physically saw Ballas get his throat slashed" is like when Death Battle pulled that "The point of impact is never directly shown" argument

He's dreaming.

I think the event play like this

- Orden is welcome to Orokin Palace. To become the Orokin by drinking the Kuva.

- Orden appear in the golden palace surrounded by the Orokin (golden eyes). He's kneel on the spot.

- One of the Orokin gave him Kuva. Which he executed his plan and kill the Dax soldier guard and twist the neck of the Orokin in front of him. He meantion twisting the neck and bare-knuckled kill the Orokin. He also mention his bone-plug (his weapon) are gone (fly into the Dax soldier eyes). So, he only twisting the neck not using any blade.

- He's then almost killed on that spot. He mention he bled his last also he stare, drained of blood, of life, at the Orokin around him. He's dying now.

- The flashback is ended. He's now return to himself. Remember he's dreaming this event. "The bones crack under foot. So I sink in the dream, bone sand rushing through the cracks of my visor, filling my helmet, and suffocating me. And I deserve it. The foul chimes snap me back. My wretched knees are bent and penitent against the golden floor."

- Ballas go to him. This is the part where it's matter the most. Orden recognize Ballas but not the One he killed. He's dying but still recognize Ballas.

- He mention one final part of his dream. So, the event may not connect to each other at this point. That Ballas hold the Kuva give it to him, he received it but also mention that this isn't him, Orden that received the Kuva. So, I think other people get Kuva and Ballas just state the punishment onto Orden, who in this point crawling on the floor.

[Am0rph15]

On 2018-06-15 at 7:03 PM, TARINunit9 said:

Yeah spoilers obviously.

When Ordan Karris stabs Ballas, Ballas dies for about half a second before standing back up and laughing

When we stab Ballas, Ballas is just up and dead. Final death, you could even dub Thanos over it saying "no resurrections this time"

Does our Z-kid like melt his insides with some void energy via a particle effect that didn't actually get rendered? Does Ballas need to be under a Neural Sentry's protection or something? Clearly I'm missing something

/SPOILER WARNING/

I guess we will find out in The New War - but it seems significant that Natah/Lotus/Margulis gathered-up Ballas' body before popping off to mum. My bet is that we haven't seen the last of Ballas.

P.S. Can anyone tell me where I can find out how to do the Reveal Hidden Contents dropdown in a post - or do DE Moderators only add these?

Edited July 8, 2018 by Am0rph15
Question about hidden content dropdown