As a founder I am extremely upset about umbra.

[The_Lunatic_]

Just now, HadesWE said:

Guys, i'm not a founder but i can understand how you're feeling.

You were promised something unique and after some time (5 years, in this case) they gave everyone a free variation of that thing.
Something pretty similar happened to me in a different game

But guys, guys, come on. 5 years without ANY BETTER VERSIONS of excalibur. Even a different Excal, just like Umbra.
"Oh, but Umbra is a variant of Prime Exca", yes he is. And still has a great lore. But the game needed a better version of Excal that people could get for free and you know that.

Excalibur is literally the mascot of the Warframe game. I know you can be pretty upset about how it ended up, but hey, if you guys are feeling really bad about that, you can try talking with some DE people and trying to get a small Excalibur Prime statue (to have irl, because digital stuff isn't the best option of investiment, specially if you understand about marketing and how players might feel if anything like this happens) or something else IN REAL LIFE as a better thing. You guys paid to help this game exist and i can't thank you enough for that. I love this game. I wish i could have been a founder on time. But come on, talk about how you feel and how you think it should be done to have the best for everyone. Thanks for the attention.

I don't mind them making a varient of Excalibur, the problem is copying Excal P's aesthetic so strongly.

I think they should have taken the time to make Excalibur Umbra look drastically different, perhaps more infested and twisted to represent Umbra's nature. Instead, they just reskinned something that was supposed to be exclusive. It feels a lot like their reasons for doing that was simply to placate the years of whining.

[Marvelous_A]

5 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

This is so true. Everyone please understand. It's not about just the items, it's also about trust. 

I personally feel as if that trust has been broken. 

Stop with the childish insults guys, stop name calling and being toxic. It's not salt or princess entitlement whatever that is. 

Just for one second. Think about if a company offered you an exclusive excalibur and then simply copy and pasted another one that was even better. It's not a good feeling. Let's be together not against each other.

Ok so it's like normal players doesn't deserve a better Excalibur coz you guys exist? What DE promised - Excalibur Prime is exclusive to you guys. So does Skana Prime. Lato Prime.

Nothing more. The promise still stands. They don't have the liability to fulfill your need of elitism. I mean after we get the Umbra. Probably a lot less will even care about the Prime.

So maybe some founders feels the need of immediate attention. To get normal players salty again over your shiny Excalibur Prime. Sorry but your effort will go to drain most probably. 

[DeMonkey]

7 minutes ago, The_Lunatic_ said:

Actually, I have over 600 hours in the game.

But, keep trying. It won't get you Excalibur Prime. And unless you have Excalibur prime, your opinion is pretty worthless on losing that exclusivity.

 

12 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Seriously, are you even trying?

^

Keep going.

Can you stop with the assumptions that I want Excalibur Prime, it's quite simply a strawman. I think I've made it pretty clear to anyone here that I care only for Wukong. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by DeMonkey

[CalmLikeAB0mb]

1 minute ago, HadesWE said:

Guys, i'm not a founder but i can understand how you're feeling.

You were promised something unique and after some time (5 years, in this case) they gave everyone a free variation of that thing.
Something pretty similar happened to me in a different game

But guys, guys, come on. 5 years without ANY BETTER VERSIONS of excalibur. Even a different Excal, just like Umbra.
"Oh, but Umbra is a variant of Prime Exca", yes he is. And still has a great lore. But the game needed a better version of Excal that people could get for free and you know that.

Excalibur is literally the mascot of the Warframe game. I know you can be pretty upset about how it ended up, but hey, if you guys are feeling really bad about that, you can try talking with some DE people and trying to get a small Excalibur Prime statue (to have irl, because digital stuff isn't the best option of investiment, specially if you understand about marketing and how players might feel if anything like this happens) or something else IN REAL LIFE as a better thing. You guys paid to help this game exist and i can't thank you enough for that. I love this game. I wish i could have been a founder on time. But come on, talk about how you feel and how you think it should be done to have the best for everyone. Thanks for the attention.

Tenno, what is the "unique" part you said (maybe because i dont care about it)? when they made excal prime WHEN THE EXCAL PRIME IS JUST A RESKIN OF THE REGULAR EXCAL?!

explain me pls because i think im not smart enough for understand that

[Aurumhart]

1 minute ago, The_Lunatic_ said:

I don't mind them making a varient of Excalibur, the problem is copying Excal P's aesthetic so strongly.

I think they should have taken the time to make Excalibur Umbra look drastically different, perhaps more infested and twisted to represent Umbra's nature. Instead, they just reskinned something that was supposed to be exclusive. It feels a lot like their reasons for doing that was simply to placate the years of whining.

Dude, if your problem is really just the aesthetic, you guys could ask DE about making a new skin for Excal Prime. Even less effort than giving free physical stuff for people and could even make you guys happier with your key-head excals

[Jetstrike1111]

2 minutes ago, Blue_Robot said:

Wow, you don't seem to understand.

There's nothing humiliating about using regular excal because non founders don't have access to prime. Hell, I'm not a founder myself as you can see and I've had Excal for five years.

Now, founders will have no reason to use Prime because a Umbra is way better. It is humiliating to use Prime because some people MAY think that the founders are just "rubbing" their founder status to people's faces, since umbra is better and they're not using it.

There is something to be said about the lack of 12,000 mastery from founders-exclusive items, as well as lack of an objectively better (however slight it may be) Excalibur. Are you saying that you'd prefer that a stronger version of, potentially, a player's first Warframe ever, should be locked behind a pay-wall that is no longer accessible? Imagine if you had a friend who started playing a few days ago, and asked you "Hey I really like Excalibur, is there a better version of him?" and you respond "Yes, but only for founders". Now what? That person's favorite frame and potential reason for playing has a prime that has been completely unobtainable for half of a decade now. I thank the founders for allowing this game to exist, but I do not believe that Umbra goes against them at all for these reasons.

1) His abilities have the exact same stats as normal Excalibur except for Radial Howl removing sentient weaknesses and having a nearly 2-second long cast time. Now, this would be a larger issue, save for the fact that the enemies that gain resistances have exactly 2 ways of spawning in normal game-play. Either Shadow Stalker spawns or you trigger sentient spawns on Lua. That's it.

2) You still have, and will always have, Excalibur Prime and his prime weapons. Nothing about that has changed other than your perception of that.

3) The argument that "Person A is the only one with shiny, so Person B just has to accept it" is ok, but "Person A has a shiny but now has a new one, and Person B also got the new one" is not, is completely ridiculous to me personally because Person A still has the original shiny thing. You still have your limited-edition exclusives that none of us will ever be able to get, right? We all just got something that looks cool as a quest reward. This allows people to earn additional Mastery Points for free and have a really nice version of Excalibur for ourselves.

4) You have had Excalibur Prime for 5 years now. Even though Prime will never be re-released (that is something that would be indefensible), I still find it a bit annoying that no matter what, I will always be at least 12,000 Mastery Points behind some Founders.

5) Prime still exists, and you are still welcome to enjoy using him as much as you like. No one can take that away from you.

If you do not like Excalibur Umbra that is completely fine, and I do not mean to tell anyone how to think. I'm just stating why I think it's a bit ridiculous to complain about Umbra supposedly invalidating Prime.

[Spartan336]

2 minutes ago, The_Lunatic_ said:

I don't mind them making a varient of Excalibur, the problem is copying Excal P's aesthetic so strongly.

I think they should have taken the time to make Excalibur Umbra look drastically different, perhaps more infested and twisted to represent Umbra's nature. Instead, they just reskinned something that was supposed to be exclusive. It feels a lot like their reasons for doing that was simply to placate the years of whining.

So your argument is that Excal Umbra is a reskin of Excal Prime. Yeah no duh. All Excal variants are re-skins of each other. And if you fallowed the games development, why are you getting mad about this now instead of years ago when Umbra came to China? 'I hate this because it's a re-skin' doesn't really work here.

[The_Lunatic_]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

 

^

Keep going.

Can you stop with the assumptions that I want Excalibur Prime, it's quite simply a strawman, I think I've made it pretty clear to anyone here that I care only for Wukong. 

Time played isn't accurate with older accounts. You'd know that if you followed the development of the game.

Steam says 653 hours. Steam's tracking has existed for longer than Warframe's.

[Aurumhart]

1 minute ago, CalmLikeAB0mb said:

Tenno, what is the "unique" part you said (maybe because i dont care about it)? when they made excal prime WHEN THE EXCAL PRIME IS JUST A RESKIN OF THE REGULAR EXCAL?!

explain me pls because i think im not smart enough for understand that

Dude, i know key-head excal is just a reskin of excal, the same way umbra is a reskin of excal.
The same way frost prime is a reskin of frost.
I didn't deny any of that.

[Jetstrike1111]

Just now, The_Lunatic_ said:

Time played isn't accurate with older accounts. You'd know that if you followed the development of the game.

Steam says 653 hours. Steam's tracking has existed for longer than Warframe's.

Steam's tracking also is inaccurate. Steam all of the time the game launcher is open and all of the time you spend in the orbiter/relays/etc. Warframe's time-tracking is based off time spent in-mission. I have over 3300 hours on steam and 1700 to 1800 in Warframe. That's a pretty big difference.

[Spartan336]

1 minute ago, The_Lunatic_ said:

Time played isn't accurate with older accounts. You'd know that if you followed the development of the game.

Steam says 653 hours. Steam's tracking has existed for longer than Warframe's.

From my experience steam is very inaccurate. 

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, The_Lunatic_ said:

Time played isn't accurate with older accounts. You'd know that if you followed the development of the game.

Steam says 653 hours. Steam's tracking has existed for longer than Warframe's.

Steam tracking counts everything from sitting in the launcher having a wee to decorating your Orbiter.

Warframe tracking counts only time spent in mission.

You'd know that if you followed the development of the game... or had any common sense.

Edited June 19, 2018 by DeMonkey

[CalmLikeAB0mb]

1 minute ago, The_Lunatic_ said:

Time played isn't accurate with older accounts. You'd know that if you followed the development of the game.

Steam says 653 hours. Steam's tracking has existed for longer than Warframe's.

steam time represent the time you are loged and ingame time represent the time you stay in missons. 

confirmed. afk relay player 😄

[(PSN)Lowk721]

5 minutes ago, Blue_Robot said:

The thing about it is that it's not about having two or three excals.

Thats from a hardcore collectors point of view. Pretty much to only types who are actually inconvienced by this set-up.

7 minutes ago, Blue_Robot said:

It's about the fact that what the founders paid for became WAY obsolete when a free and superior version was released.

Excal Prime was nothing more than gold trimmed piece to prove you did something long before Umbra. It was barely better compared to the original. And its visuals even more lackluster to the primes that followed it. It wasn't meant to be superior. Its a token. A badge. A confirmation of what you did in the past.

28 minutes ago, Blue_Robot said:

And now there's just no reason to use excal prime since Umbra is just plain better in almost all aspects.  

Sure there is. If you liked its minimalist visual upgrade over regular Excal. You should still like it now. If you don't then you probably only liked it as a way to make people jealous or look to you in awe. In which case, lol.

32 minutes ago, Blue_Robot said:

And also, using excal prime is kinda humiliating now, since everyone knows he's inferior to umbra. Join a public squad and everyone will go "Oh look at the founder, still trying to use excal prime. There's no reason to use it, since Umbra is better. He's just using it to rub his founder status in our faces.". So who in his right mind would use excal prime then? 

 

Are you really looking for sympathy because some jerks might mock you on the internet? Is that really part of your argument? Thats a first world problem compared to to Limbo. People will straight up just leave the squad if a Limbo player appears even without seeing if they are good or not.

[Blue_Robot]

2 minutes ago, Jetstrike1111 said:

There is something to be said about the lack of 12,000 mastery from founders-exclusive items, as well as lack of an objectively better (however slight it may be) Excalibur. Are you saying that you'd prefer that a stronger version of, potentially, a player's first Warframe ever, should be locked behind a pay-wall that is no longer accessible? Imagine if you had a friend who started playing a few days ago, and asked you "Hey I really like Excalibur, is there a better version of him?" and you respond "Yes, but only for founders". Now what? That person's favorite frame and potential reason for playing has a prime that has been completely unobtainable for half of a decade now. I thank the founders for allowing this game to exist, but I do not believe that Umbra goes against them at all for these reasons.

1) His abilities have the exact same stats as normal Excalibur except for Radial Howl removing sentient weaknesses and having a nearly 2-second long cast time. Now, this would be a larger issue, save for the fact that the enemies that gain resistances have exactly 2 ways of spawning in normal game-play. Either Shadow Stalker spawns or you trigger sentient spawns on Lua. That's it.

2) You still have, and will always have, Excalibur Prime and his prime weapons. Nothing about that has changed other than your perception of that.

3) The argument that "Person A is the only one with shiny, so Person B just has to accept it" is ok, but "Person A has a shiny but now has a new one, and Person B also got the new one" is not, is completely ridiculous to me personally because Person A still has the original shiny thing. You still have your limited-edition exclusives that none of us will ever be able to get, right? We all just got something that looks cool as a quest reward. This allows people to earn additional Mastery Points for free and have a really nice version of Excalibur for ourselves.

4) You have had Excalibur Prime for 5 years now. Even though Prime will never be re-released (that is something that would be indefensible), I still find it a bit annoying that no matter what, I will always be at least 12,000 Mastery Points behind some Founders.

5) Prime still exists, and you are still welcome to enjoy using him as much as you like. No one can take that away from you.

If you do not like Excalibur Umbra that is completely fine, and I do not mean to tell anyone how to think. I'm just stating why I think it's a bit ridiculous to complain about Umbra supposedly invalidating Prime.

Personally, I think the 12k mastery is irrelevant. I don't care that founders are ahead of me by 12k mastery. Eventually everyone will reach MR 30 with or without the founder primes.

Yes, the founders are still welcome to enjoy using Excal Prime as much as they like, but I'm just going to paste what I said in what you quoted: 

Now, founders will have no reason to use Prime because a Umbra is way better. It is humiliating to use Prime because some people MAY think that the founders are just "rubbing" their founder status to people's faces, since umbra is better and they're not using it.

[The_Lunatic_]

5 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Steam tracking counts everything from sitting in the launcher having a wee to decorating your Orbiter.

Warframe tracking counts only time spent in mission.

You'd know that if you followed the development of the game... or had any common sense.

Well, to be fair, it also says my gross income is 8 million when I'm currently sitting on 20 million credits.

So, I mean, it's pretty clear none of this is accurate.

[Koldraxon-732]

Excalibur Umbra is different enough from his Prime version to warrant keeping and using the Prime version. Also, Umbra's melee does not operate with the classic 1h-sword stances and he does not come with a sidearm which surpasses Lato Prime or Vandal. His Exalted Blade deals no more damage than any other Excalibur's, and has two Umbra polarities that cannot be Forma'd back in. If I - like numerous others - was a Founder, I would've rather asked DE to make Umbra's cosmetics interchangable with his Prime's, since fashionframe is endgame, if not merely allow for Founders to wear Excalibur Prime's cosmetics on Umbra.

That said, I will proceed to list the differences:

Spoiler

 

0: Umbra is free for everyone, even you.
The Quest which he comes sheathed in, so to speak, is also quite deep and surprisingly spiritual. I personally did not expect him to bring a Nikana until the last trailer revealed it, but people expected a 1h sword or 2h katana. I still believed it would be a Nikana.

1: Umbra's sapience passive.
This is a benefit and a drawback. In some cases, this is more drawback than benefit. Add the current bug of Transference Static with Umbra as a client (not host), and you get two drawbacks making Void-dashing across Plains and other places a little slower due to having to wait for Umbra to catch up somehow.

2: Radial Howl.
It is slower in cast time, eventually people will use that cast time to plan ahead if nothing changes.

3: Skijatai, AKA Shadow Born.
This can be used on Excal P with no ill effect. It's stealth passive would make a fine addition to any nikana collection.

4: Non-removable parts.
The scarf and Umbra-specific attachments across his body can get in the way of some things but cannot be removed. Also, currently, his inner-forearm crescents are not properly attached which irks me personally.

That said, using Umbra is itself a sacrifice, and so having the Prime counterpart puts you at an advantage - allowing you to choose if you wanted an Excalibur which acted on it's own with the risk of being dragged out of Operator mode, or to use the Prime as always. Also, Umbra gives an opportunity to experiment with mod configuration variants you could later refactor onto Prime - a benefit many don't have, and most would likely rebuild the common Excalibur to achieve a near-same level of choice.

 

On that note, I would recommend you a build for Excalibur. It's in the spoilers below.

Spoiler

Depicted below is the Excalibur Umbra build I am currently running with. It's main focus is to feed itself, and give Exalted Blade's channeling mode a utility bonus and a drawback.

Image of build:

Spoiler

The build works on all Excalibur types, but you'll have to supplant the Umbra mods with their common/Prime/something you feel is more fitting. I've not included the Arcanes I use because they are 1: not maxed and 2: may not be your choice.

The elemental mod arrangement is also up/down to your preferences, but Life Strike is essential to this build's effectiveness. Additionally you could forgo Streamline for another  / --- polarity and slot Primed Flow for more capacity, though from experience, this isn't essential but more of a preference. You could otherwise use Rage to forgo the Forma requirement for Primed Flow.

The build operates as follows: Excalibur receives damage to health, generates energy, maxes energy and becomes at risk of dying. Activates Exalted Blade, begins channeling and mashing [melee button] until health is restored, then he can stop channeling so the ability uses less energy. Such a build allows Excalibur to recover health.

 The basis of this build requires Rage + lots of health, and Life Strike on the Exalted weapon, and to channel it when you need health.

 

You believe that DE broke the Founder's Oath, but that is rather false. DE cannot do that and have said so many times that they wouldn't've that you can't miss them saying it.

The closest thing you'll find is what's going on in Chinaframe - the Chinese-exclusive version of Warframe which is region-locked and operated by a nearly unrelated development group.

[CalmLikeAB0mb]

pls just close this topic plssssss.

im super said already because relays are emptys now. no excal primes afk there anymore. 😄

Edited June 19, 2018 by CalmLikeAB0mb

[Rayden_Tenno]

2 minutes ago, Blue_Robot said:

Personally, I think the 12k mastery is irrelevant. I don't care that founders are ahead of me by 12k mastery. Eventually everyone will reach MR 30 with or without the founder primes.

Yes, the founders are still welcome to enjoy using Excal Prime as much as they like, but I'm just going to paste what I said in what you quoted: 

Now, founders will have no reason to use Prime because a Umbra is way better. It is humiliating to use Prime because some people MAY think that the founders are just "rubbing" their founder status to people's faces, since umbra is better and they're not using it.

You know, i like ash and loki as well, a lot. Shame on you DE for releasing loki and ash prime! now i have no reason to use the normal version because prime is way better!

Most of the people who actually follow this game, me included, already had this discussion 3 years ago.

[Blue_Robot]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Lowk721 said:

Thats from a hardcore collectors point of view. Pretty much to only types who are actually inconvienced by this set-up.

Excal Prime was nothing more than gold trimmed piece to prove you did something long before Umbra. It was barely better compared to the original. And its visuals even more lackluster to the primes that followed it. It wasn't meant to be superior. Its a token. A badge. A confirmation of what you did in the past.

Sure there is. If you liked its minimalist visual upgrade over regular Excal. You should still like it now. If you don't then you probably only liked it as a way to make people jealous or look to you in awe. In which case, lol.

 

Are you really looking for sympathy because some jerks might mock you on the internet? Is that really part of your argument? Thats a first world problem compared to to Limbo. People will straight up just leave the squad if a Limbo player appears even without seeing if they are good or not.

Dude, I'm not a founder.

But the thing is, if I was, I would steer clear of using excal prime because of those reasons I mentioned before. Prime being inferior, and people getting the wrong idea.

Case in point, you even think that some founders "only liked it as a way to make people jealous or look to you in awe." lol

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

The moral of the story is: Developers should never do something like this. Instead, they should of given the founders stuff they can put up for display in their homes or orbiters and a glyph to show to everyone they were a founder. 

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, The_Lunatic_ said:

Well, to be fair, it also says my gross income is 8 million when I'm currently sitting on 20 million credits.

So, I mean, it's pretty clear none of this is accurate.

Gross Income being inaccurate doesn't mean everything is inaccurate.

A quick google search shows that the Gross Income stat specifically is wonky, and is potentially only affected by certain credit gains in much the same way that time played is only affected by in mission time. However it's a well known fact that time played is in mission time, and has been proven to work as such.

Keep going.

[Mintaro]

I didn't think this was possible for people to make a complaint about. 

Boy have I been wrong.

[Jetstrike1111]

Just now, Blue_Robot said:

Now, founders will have no reason to use Prime because a Umbra is way better. It is humiliating to use Prime because some people MAY think that the founders are just "rubbing" their founder status to people's faces, since umbra is better and they're not using it.

Now this may be because I'm not a founder, but in the 2 years I've spent playing this game, I have never seen a single founder mocked or shamed for using Prime. Most I usually see is either nothing or "He's a founder :0". That's it. Umbra is better than Prime when fighting sentients. Cool, name a place besides Lua where you have regular amounts of sentient spawns that gain immunity. And name a single situation where a 2-second long cast animation is better than a 1-second long cast animation for the exact same function. Other than those small differences, there is no difference between Prime and Umbra, except one was used to support a financially dependent company make a successful game, and the other is the result of said company making a successful game. Besides, Umbra had been confirmed for the game for quite a few years, and was officially confirmed last year. Why was this issue only brought up now? Is it because the founders no longer have a frame that's stronger than the a different variation of the same exact frame? I do not see any reason to be "humiliated" to use Prime. That's definitely over-exaggerating, and if you are humiliated over a virtual item in a digital game, that is a bigger issue if you ask me. 

[Firetempest]

I for one am glad everyone can get a prime like version of excal to complete the collection in a way.