Exalted Weapon change is garbage - Here's why

[skcuf]

I see what you're doing here DE. It started with Khora. From what I can tell it's going to continue. It shouldn't.

I'm speaking of the "Warframes now have extra items to polarize" crap. I spent much time creating weapons and builds that fit my frames and their exalted weapons, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. But now you show up and turn frames into Forma vacuums that can have no other purpose other than to suck platinum out of players who are short on the resource. I just got a friend to play the game and he's going to look at the immense resource cost for crap like this and turn away, making me a solo player once again.

And holy hell...Titania get's a huge change to her playstyle without you fixing her? Really? For people who don't play Titania, here's what happened.

1. They moved Dex Pixia to pistol mods. This means that she no longer has the option of switching between a rifle or shotgun build to tailor her to whichever mission you're doing.

2. Dex Pixia and Diwata now act as their own weapons that need forma to upgrade fully. This means I'll require at least two more Forma to build her out fully. This will put me at a minimum of 4 forma into a Warframe in need of a heavy rework. This change has increased the power creep even further for Titania.

3. Diwata has no stance. Because of this I now have a maximum of 60 points instead of 70 and require even MORE forma to build her fully.

Titania is just one example of this crap. If you're going to put extra items on a Warframe then everything related to that frame should be polarized with a single Forma. If you start putting in random taxes on the players then you're going to irritate a lot of your player base.

 

NOTE: Please see my other posts related to Titania and how to fix her to make her up to date. The changes I recommended will STILL leave her less useful than Limbo or Saryn after their changes, but she'll be able to actually play solo without getting ripped apart at higher levels.

[skcuf]

Unless you add Riven mods for exalted weapons...

Do this and your change will be okay.

[Emulad0or]

2 minutes ago, skcuf said:

add Riven mods for exalted weapons

Please, no... Last thing we need are Regulators and Exalted Blades Rivens...

[Prof.549]

The only problem with that change is 10 less capacity. Other thatn that - it is fine(if you would forget about math issues and re-forma-ing).

[skcuf]

3 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

Please, no... Last thing we need are Regulators and Exalted Blades Rivens...

Well as it stands they've made a negative change towards our resources without giving us any benefit. So what would you recommend they do to fix it? This is just a tax on the players...

[peterc3]

3 minutes ago, skcuf said:

Unless you add Riven mods for exalted weapons...

This is never going to happen.

6 minutes ago, skcuf said:

I just got a friend to play the game and he's going to look at the immense resource cost for crap like this and turn away, making me a solo player once again.

Then show him every other frame that doesn't need this, at least at first? "immense" resource cost when people are constantly whining that they have too many Forma. Right.

Just now, skcuf said:

they've made a negative change towards our resources without giving us any benefit

There was a lot of clamoring for this to happen and you no longer need to have a stat stick to have an exalted weapon that works well along with a weapon that works well outside the exalted weapon mode. That you see no benefit speaks more to your ability to play the game than anything.

[LSG501]

While I would have liked some forma as compensation for the changes (I've literally run out... again, even with building daily) the only real issue I have is time investment/grind and the missing 10 points you would normally get from a melee stance.

Having said that there have been some good 'alternatives' suggested to what we have such as if you have no mods on your exalted weapon it takes from you melee, a kind of hybrid/crossover approach.  It would keep both sides happy in essence... but then it wouldn't keep DE happy with the forma sales...

 

Also agree about no rivens for exalted weapons... they're bad enough on normal weapons with their excessive rng/grind.

Edited June 29, 2018 by LSG501

[skcuf]

2 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Then show him every other frame that doesn't need this, at least at first? "immense" resource cost when people are constantly whining that they have too many Forma. Right.

There was a lot of clamoring for this to happen and you no longer need to have a stat stick to have an exalted weapon that works well along with a weapon that works well outside the exalted weapon mode. That you see no benefit speaks more to your ability to play the game than anything.

He started with Excalibur. Having one of the starter frames and the face of Warframe with this negative will turn people away.

I don't know what a stat stick is...but if you're talking about building a melee weapon or something to fit with exalted blade then I have two responses.

1. If a person is using exalted blade then they're not using their melee.

2. You still require said "stat stick" for Atlas.

[Emulad0or]

5 minutes ago, skcuf said:

Well as it stands they've made a negative change towards our resources without giving us any benefit. So what would you recommend they do to fix it? This is just a tax on the players...

Nothing, it is fine as it is now. People complain about getting alot of Forma, now they can use it. I always used alot of Forma anyway, this just gives me more stuff to do in the game. Besides, not having to use a specific build on a weapon just so that the Exalted weapon is ok, is a great change.

[Airwolfen]

The benefit? being able to use a different weapon that does NOT have to be fixed to a build that the exalted weapons use.

AKA. I can now use my weapons with their rivens on those frames. (or weapon augments for that matter). Or in the case of Ivara for example, A shotgun.

[BiancaRoughfin]

I have formed Excalibur Umbra`s Exalted Blade, Excalibur Prime`s Exalted Blade, Valkyr Prime`s Claws, Mesa`s Regulators and both of Titania`s weapons.

My Exalted Weapons have been performing way better than they used to with the new system, i didnt mind forming them, actually had fun doing so.

Resources used for crafting Forma arent an issue, this is after all a Grind game but i must admit the 24 hour crafting time is ludicrously far from the ideal in a game you may be required to throw 3 or more formas into a gear recently acquired.

8 minutes ago, skcuf said:

But now you show up and turn frames into Forma vacuums that can have no other purpose other than to suck platinum out of players who are short on the resource.

The intention was never to "Suck up platinum out of players". One of the main reasons they had to make these changes was because there are missions that prevent you from using a specific weapon type like in Sorties that have modifiers restricting you to a single weapon class and this made Warframe skills that relied on specific weapons completely useless in these missions.

11 minutes ago, skcuf said:

I just got a friend to play the game and he's going to look at the immense resource cost for crap like this and turn away, making me a solo player once again.

Its a grinding game and he probably turned away because of you trying so loud about it.

16 minutes ago, skcuf said:

Unless you add Riven mods for exalted weapons...

Do this and your change will be okay.

Never going to happen. This would turn exalted weapons into major power creeps. They would eventually have to be nerfed down hard and people would just start crying on the forums about it.

[VadiseReikaz]

I keep telling people that complain that they have no forma. Sell that riven that you will not be using anymore. And you'll have enough for more forma packs than you'll know what to do with.

Edited June 29, 2018 by VadiseReikaz

[GumShot]

Building frame around a certain weapon is a rudiment and cool to get rid off.

[bluepheonix13]

9 minutes ago, skcuf said:

1. If a person is using exalted blade then they're not using their melee.

Yes, I am. Don't know about you, but I like some variation and I am not running around in my ult the whole mission most of the times. 

9 minutes ago, skcuf said:

2. You still require said "stat stick" for Atlas.

As is the case for all non-exalted melee abilities. I think this would just overcomplicate things, so I'm fine with the way it is. 

[DrBorris]

19 minutes ago, skcuf said:

1. They moved Dex Pixia to pistol mods. This means that she no longer has the option of switching between a rifle or shotgun build to tailor her to whichever mission you're doing.

Except that secondary mods are superior to both shotgun and rifle mods...

20 minutes ago, skcuf said:

2. Dex Pixia and Diwata now act as their own weapons that need forma to upgrade fully. This means I'll require at least two more Forma to build her out fully. This will put me at a minimum of 4 forma into a Warframe in need of a heavy rework. This change has increased the power creep even further for Titania.

Oh no, you have to forma something to maximize something. Without any forma Dex Pixia can complete any content with ease. And what do you mean by "power creep"?

24 minutes ago, skcuf said:

3. Diwata has no stance. Because of this I now have a maximum of 60 points instead of 70 and require even MORE forma to build her fully. 

Diwata has three polarities to start... I guess you would need a forma to fit in three Primed mods, but that is three Primed mods. I expect that to take a forma.

[skcuf]

5 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

Nothing, it is fine as it is now. People complain about getting alot of Forma, now they can use it. I always used alot of Forma anyway, this just gives me more stuff to do in the game. Besides, not having to use a specific build on a weapon just so that the Exalted weapon is ok, is a great change.

A few people complain about too many forma. I've never actually heard a person complain about this. You don't make a law/tax to cater to the exception...

4 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

I have formed Excalibur Umbra`s Exalted Blade, Excalibur Prime`s Exalted Blade, Valkyr Prime`s Claws, Mesa`s Regulators and both of Titania`s weapons.

My Exalted Weapons have been performing way better than they used to with the new system, i didnt mind forming them, actually had fun doing so.

Resources used for crafting Forma arent an issue, this is after all a Grind game but i must admit the 24 hour crafting time is ludicrously far from the ideal in a game you may be required to throw 3 or more formas into a gear recently acquired.

The intention was never to "Suck up platinum out of players". One of the main reasons they had to make these changes was because there are missions that prevent you from using a specific weapon type like in Sorties that have modifiers restricting you to a single weapon class and this made Warframe skills that relied on specific weapons completely useless in these missions.

Its a grinding game and he probably turned away because of you trying so loud about it.

Never going to happen. This would turn exalted weapons into major power creeps. They would eventually have to be nerfed down hard and people would just start crying on the forums about it.

I've forma'd the weapons too. I'm not making this thread because I'm having issues finding resources. I have 2200+ hours into the game...if I want something I can get it. I created the thread because I see a negative effect on the future of the game and it should be prevented.

There was nothing stopping you from grabbing a frame that related to the secondary in a sortie mission. Titania or Ivara for a primary, Mesa for secondary and Valkyr, Excal, or Atlas for melee. 

He hasn't turned away from the game. I'm saying it's a risk he will because the entry into the game is quite steep.

4 minutes ago, VadiseReikaz said:

I keep telling people that complain that they have no forma. Sell that riven that you will not be using anymore. And you'll have enough for more forma packs that you'll know what to do with.

Not everyone has finished the quests or had the time into the game to get Riven's they aren't using. Also, there are a lot of people that keep riven's because they want to have something to change it up in the future.

[kyori]

I like how freely I can use weapons now with exalted frames not chained to a particular weapon class. Yes, more forma compensation is reasonable. 

Exalted weapons now being mod-able on their own is an advantage than disadvantage if look over the petty forma issue.

Oh ya... exalted melee weapons should have the stance giving capacity just like any melee stance do.

[ukhooligan]

I love the new system,its added a whole new level(excuse the pun) of creating builds. I no longer have to mod my sidearm/primary around the exalted weapon. Plus I cheated buying rivens for my weapons that affected the exalted weapons.

I now have better more flexible builds without the rivens.

 

This has been one of the most positive changes DE has done in the last few months.

[VadiseReikaz]

5 minutes ago, skcuf said:

Not everyone has finished the quests or had the time into the game to get Riven's they aren't using. Also, there are a lot of people that keep riven's because they want to have something to change it up in the future.

Then if you do not have a riven you used to supercharge your exalteds you are not losing anything from this change. Beside the grind, and this game is grind or pay, has always been.

If on the other hand you used a riven to power up your exalted, then you get a choice. You can keep it to fulfill your packrat collector fantasy, and do the grind/pay. Or trade it in to get forma and skip the grind.

You cant have everything.

Edited June 29, 2018 by VadiseReikaz

[skcuf]

2 minutes ago, bluepheonix13 said:

Yes, I am. Don't know about you, but I like some variation and I am not running around in my ult the whole mission most of the times. 

As is the case for all non-exalted melee abilities. I think this would just overcomplicate things, so I'm fine with the way it is. 

The difference here is when you build a melee weapon for an exalted weapon you have the option to replace it. In the case of someone like Atlas you don't even have that option. You just have a spammable ability with a weird weapon.

1 minute ago, DrBorris said:

Except that secondary mods are superior to both shotgun and rifle mods...

Oh no, you have to forma something to maximize something. Without any forma Dex Pixia can complete any content with ease. And what do you mean by "power creep"?

Diwata has three polarities to start... I guess you would need a forma to fit in three Primed mods, but that is three Primed mods. I expect that to take a forma.

The quality of the mods isn't what was called into question. It's the options to build differently. Eg. more crit damage and fire rate  with shotguns or more crit chance and accuracy with rifles. The Dex Pixia are already strong enough that changing it up was still effective while being fun.

Titania's power creep is best defined by her lack of survivability while other frames that have come out after her have better options and before her have been altered.

A forma to Titania should affect everything about Titania. It's a simple solution.

6 minutes ago, GumShot said:

Building frame around a certain weapon is a rudiment and cool to get rid off.

You didn't need to build around a weapon. You could just grab a weapon you had forma'd already in the way you wanted and throw mods on it to fit the exalted weapons.

[rune_me]

22 minutes ago, skcuf said:

He started with Excalibur. Having one of the starter frames and the face of Warframe with this negative will turn people away.

This is nonsense. If your friend just started, there's no reason for him to spend any forma at all on Excalibur. You can make it through the entire star chart without formaing Exalted Blade (or any of the exalted weapons). Just because you don't have a perfect build for your exalted blade or peacemaker, doesn't make those abilities useless. With even just 1 forma (or none) they'll carry you through sorties just fine. Having a fully formaed and potatoed loadout should be something new players work towards, not something they start out with.

This extra resource cost is only and end-game issue that doesn't affect new players in any way. And by the time you hit endgame, you have a forma per day. So if you have to spend 4 extra forma on Titania, that's 4 days, barely half a week, and your done. Don't see how that's an issue.

Edited June 29, 2018 by rune_me

[skcuf]

6 minutes ago, ukhooligan said:

I love the new system,its added a whole new level(excuse the pun) of creating builds. I no longer have to mod my sidearm/primary around the exalted weapon. Plus I cheated buying rivens for my weapons that affected the exalted weapons.

I now have better more flexible builds without the rivens.

 

This has been one of the most positive changes DE has done in the last few months.

Rivens didn't affect exalted weapons.

[skcuf]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

This is nonsense. If your friend just started, there's no reason for him to spend any forma at all on Excalibur. You can make it through the entire star chart without formaing Exalted Blade (or any of the exalted weapons). Just because you don't have a perfect build for your exalted blade or peacemaker, doesn't make those abilities useless. With even just 1 forma (or none) they'll carry you through sorties just fine. Having a fully formaed and potatoed loadout should be something new players work towards, not something they start out with.

This extra resource cost is only and end-game issue that doesn't affect new players in any way. And by the time you hit endgame, you have a forma per day. So if you have to spend 4 extra forma on Titania, that's 4 days, barely half a week, and your done. Don't see how that's an issue.

It's an issue because it's time and resources I previously didn't need to spend...

I regret creating a thread about economics on the Internet.

[rune_me]

1 minute ago, skcuf said:

It's an issue because it's time and resources I previously didn't need to spend...

I regret creating a thread about economics on the Internet.

Well you don't have to spend them now either. Like I said, you can still do just about all content in this game without formaing your exalted blade. The only difference is that instead of killing a lvl 100 enemy in 1 second, it might now take you 3 seconds to do it. That's hardly the end of the world.

Every new weapon or frame introduced is resources and grind you didn't previously have to do. That doesn't make it a bad thing. Sure it's annoying. But the benefits in this case far outweighs the forma and time I have to invest. It's well worth it. (just my opinion of course, I get not everyone agrees with me)

[ukhooligan]

13 minutes ago, skcuf said:

Rivens didn't affect exalted weapons.

aha just testing ya honest.......:)