The rework obssesion

[(XBOX)Novakin666]

I dont know why the warframe community has become like this but everyone is obsessed with reworking warframes even if all they need are number fixes and honestly DE needs to address this by taking the time to look at weaker warfranes and actually buffing their numbers and if that isn't enough and the warframe is still problematic change how they scale and use reworks as the last thing if all else fails and I hope after fortuna railjack and the new war or somewhere in between when they have some breathing room they look at warframes that need help and look to see if its numbers or there scaling and just dont completely rework a frame because they just weak.

[Fishyflakes]

Rework, fixes, take a look at.

It all means the same thing.

We just want it.

[GPrime96]

It became like this for about 6 or more Months now. So the Obssesion is just Spreading like a Plague that can't be Controlled. The ones i've seen that wanted to be reworked the Most would be: 

Nekros

Valkyr

Ash

Titania

Wukong

Zephyr

Trinity

Vauban

Nyx

Nova

Other frames, I rarely see a forum about the frame needed to be Reworked. Another thing about frames getting Reworked is do you commonly see Saryn Rework Forums? Look at what DE Did to Saryn. So i wonder what route they are taking when it coming to working on their frames now.

[Redeye]

16 minutes ago, (XB1)Novakin666 said:

breathing

Yes. I'd like some of that. I'm all for dots and line breaks. Comas too. We need more of that. 

On topic,I. Uh. Yeah. Everyone is obsessed with reworks. Because X user thinks X needs to be reworked. So said user makes a post on the forums explaining why he thinks that one frame could use a rework. Then he proceeds to make suggestions. As in, how he would change the warframe abilities, then why he thinks it's a good idea.

 

What are the weaker frames in your opinion? Why are they weak? I mean one has to start somewhere.

 

That's what's on top of my head, as an answer.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Redeye

[(PSN)Yetchii]

Apparently it's like.. if they have an ability that is even slightly similar to another frames ability but is a weaker version of that frames ability then the entire frame needs a rework because they're just a discount Rhino.

[kyori]

The no commas,  no paragraph obession.

[KennBone]

lols 1 st rhino it´s not that strong.. and yes rework is needed. vauban example is boring and unbalance thats why a very low players use him

[(XBOX)MintyFreshMike]

13 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

It became like this for about 6 or more Months now. So the Obssesion is just Spreading like a Plague that can't be Controlled. The ones i've seen that wanted to be reworked the Most would be: 

Nekros

Valkyr

Ash

Titania

Wukong

Zephyr

Trinity

Vauban

Nyx

Nova

Other frames, I rarely see a forum about the frame needed to be Reworked. Another thing about frames getting Reworked is do you commonly see Saryn Rework Forums? Look at what DE Did to Saryn. So i wonder what route they are taking when it coming to working on their frames now.

 I can tell that people only want the less used abilities to be more useful. A lot of these frames are pretty good but you can't make every ability super useful.

[(XBOX)MintyFreshMike]

4 minutes ago, davej83 said:

lols 1 st rhino it´s not that strong.. and yes rework is needed. vauban example is boring and unbalance thats why a very low players use him

Frames like Vauban need help because he is used for like 1 ability, sometimes 2. And the ability isn't even all that great. But not every frame needs a rework. Frames like Nova and ash are perfectly fine. I may not use all their abilities in one build but all their abilities are used and are very effective. 

[Synpai]

Working toward balance is a part of game design. Even after a rework Valkyr still fails to have an entirely cohesive kit compared to what the game demands and other tools that exist. 

There's nothing wrong with people wanting gameplay to feel like NIdus. Basically able to use every ability regardless of build. Numbers aren't always the best solution. Numbers alone wouldn't save Titania's kit etc.

[Azamagon]

It stems from, well, that the game actually NEEDS a lot of reworks, due to how imbalanced it is.

[(PSN)TitaniumSkillz07]

We'll just to wait and see of what gets done to these frames

[mantasas17x]

30 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

It became like this for about 6 or more Months now. So the Obssesion is just Spreading like a Plague that can't be Controlled. The ones i've seen that wanted to be reworked the Most would be: 

Nekros

Valkyr

Ash

Titania

Wukong

Zephyr

Trinity

Vauban

Nyx

Nova

Other frames, I rarely see a forum about the frame needed to be Reworked. Another thing about frames getting Reworked is do you commonly see Saryn Rework Forums? Look at what DE Did to Saryn. So i wonder what route they are taking when it coming to working on their frames now.

why ash? For me his ultimate is only skill that i dont use, bt thats cause all of his abilities sujpport sword play and 4th really makes one distraced cause of instead of rying to focus on enemies and survival you focus on looking everywhere like crazy then just one button and done.

[GPrime96]

2 minutes ago, mantasas17x said:

why ash? For me his ultimate is only skill that i dont use, bt thats cause all of his abilities sujpport sword play and 4th really makes one distraced cause of instead of rying to focus on enemies and survival you focus on looking everywhere like crazy then just one button and done.

Not really that. It's because of Forums like this:

I listed the frames up there by how commonly I see these types of Topics. To me, Ash is pretty Solid so he don't need it but other players want to.

[mactrent]

Have you seen Reb's interview in the NoClip documentary?  When we're talking about and enthusing reworking a frame, we're really just pointing out things that can be improved.  They can't make everything perfect, but they can and do revisit old things that need it, so long as they can mainly keep moving forward.  What we're doing when we suggest a "rework" is bidding for the limited dev time.

I see your Ash ultimate ability feeling out of place, and raise you a Limbo whose kit could still be awesome if it didn't break his teammates' weapons.  There are many suggestions for fixing it, and the devs probably won't even pick one of them (opting for their own idea that's usually better, imo), but there's a big thing that can be improved, and that's my bid.

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by mactrent

[Rontul]

Most of the rework posts I've seen here aren't even actual reworks they're just changes to some abilities.

I don't think it's a rework obsession as much as misnaming terms.

[Nazrethim]

hace 22 minutos, mantasas17x dijo:

why ash? For me his ultimate is only skill that i dont use, bt thats cause all of his abilities sujpport sword play and 4th really makes one distraced cause of instead of rying to focus on enemies and survival you focus on looking everywhere like crazy then just one button and done.

Ash has it's issues. Most of them coming from Bladestorm. Funny enough, Blade Storm is THE example of how big numbers don't make up for shoddy design.

But to be fair, Ash only needs a small list of changes right now and not a full on rework.

To elaborate (I'm a broken record by now)

-Move the "join BS" to BS key when it's in execution. There is no reason to make Teleport unusable when BS is active.

-Smoke Shadow should leave a short lived cloud that allies can pass trough to get cloaking.

-Fatal Teleport's automatic finisher should be by default on the ability itself.

-Rising Storm: this one could go in 4 ways:

   a) a flat 10s combo duration buff instead of the confusing and useless "100%" (which only amounts to 3s at defaul duration and 7 at max duration)

   b) Make it both a 10s AND increase combo gain from bladestorm by 50% (basically give it a Venka Prime treatment without needing Venka Prime)

   c) Make Blade Storms reticle increase as it marks targets, so for few targets you still need to aim carefully, but as more targets get marked the easier it becomes to mark more.

   d) Make it's damage increase by 10% for each mark used until all marks are consumed. Capped at 50 marks (500% extra damage)

-BS could use a visual tweak: Marking Mode stays the same, smoky effect and monochrome filter. Execution phase (when clones attack) drops the monochrome filter but keeps the smoky effect, that way you have a better visual indicator that you aren't bladestorming anymore. Also keep the smoky effect visible while the frame is using any sort of invisibility.

Conclave:

-Shuriken damage buffed to that of a Kunai

-Teleport having 35 range instead of 20.

-BS skiping straight to send the clone. In Conclave it cannot mark more than 1 player, so the marking mode is pointless.

-Ash's passive applying to more weapon types (or any weapon with Slash damage)

-Tear Gas augment should have either more radius (5m instead of 3m) or leave a small cloud enemies can run into and get blinded

Edited July 16, 2018 by Nazrethim

[KennBone]

hace 44 minutos, (XB1)MintyFreshMike dijo:

Frames like Vauban need help because he is used for like 1 ability, sometimes 2. And the ability isn't even all that great. But not every frame needs a rework. Frames like Nova and ash are perfectly fine. I may not use all their abilities in one build but all their abilities are used and are very effective. 

like u say.. ash is perfect as stay i think same actually it´s my " main frame so .. " but ty to.. yes last rework.. the point is find the balance, fun and utility.

[mantasas17x]

27 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Ash has it's issues. Most of them coming from Bladestorm. Funny enough, Blade Storm is THE example of how big numbers don't make up for shoddy design.

But to be fair, Ash only needs a small list of changes right now and not a full on rework.

To elaborate (I'm a broken record by now)

-Move the "join BS" to BS key when it's in execution. There is no reason to make Teleport unusable when BS is active.

-Smoke Shadow should leave a short lived cloud that allies can pass trough to get cloaking.

-Fatal Teleport's automatic finisher should be by default on the ability itself.

-Rising Storm: this one could go in 4 ways:

   a) a flat 10s combo duration buff instead of the confusing and useless "100%" (which only amounts to 3s at defaul duration and 7 at max duration)

   b) Make it both a 10s AND increase combo gain from bladestorm by 50% (basically give it a Venka Prime treatment without needing Venka Prime)

   c) Make Blade Storms reticle increase as it marks targets, so for few targets you still need to aim carefully, but as more targets get marked the easier it becomes to mark more.

   d) Make it's damage increase by 10% for each mark used until all marks are consumed. Capped at 50 marks (500% extra damage)

-BS could use a visual tweak: Marking Mode stays the same, smoky effect and monochrome filter. Execution phase (when clones attack) drops the monochrome filter but keeps the smoky effect, that way you have a better visual indicator that you aren't bladestorming anymore. Also keep the smoky effect visible while the frame is using any sort of invisibility.

Conclave:

-Shuriken damage buffed to that of a Kunai

-Teleport having 35 range instead of 20.

-BS skiping straight to send the clone. In Conclave it cannot mark more than 1 player, so the marking mode is pointless.

-Ash's passive applying to more weapon types (or any weapon with Slash damage)

-Tear Gas augment should have either more radius (5m instead of 3m) or leave a small cloud enemies can run into and get blinded

Well, The thing is. Ash should have an identity as an assassin stealthy or loud, yet right now, he is in that unsure position like, where do i go? his smoke give shim short invisibility and teleport gives him one of best mov in game, but there are lies the problem with the whole stealth without a target his "mobility" is useless making stealth less optional for him cause of that. Sometimes u have to approach from different angle and his teleport restricts that. IF i was to rework ash this is how and what i would change : 

Passive: All of ashes finishers are fast attacks made from his hidden blades 

^ right there fixes one of biggest problems with any stealth mechanic A lot of weapons are slow to do finishers, with this it would fit both combat and stealth style, cause when playing warframe nothing is more annoying than long as finisher while in middle of 20 enemies.

Shurriken: On tap change trowing weapon type : Poison needles: paralyze enemies with extremely low amount of dmg, Trowing knives deal x amount of dmg and penetrate armour, or exploding kunai when trown it explodes on enemies, can also act as exploding mine.

Basically tap and hold mechanic on his first skill with various tools that would allow him to adapt based on situation Poison needles, stealthy approach eliminating one enemy without actually killing him, Knives : eliminating armor of tougher opponents, and exploding kunai  that will allow to set mine traps or to cc enemies for a short amount of time.

Smoke bomb: Drops smoke pallents, enemies hit are confused for as long as they stand in the smoke ash becomes invisible for X amount of seconds.

his smoke bomb is already strong and the "confuse" effect on enemies should compensate it for allies . no they still shouldnt get invisibility.

Teleport: Teleports to target location, targeting enemy teleports behind them. While targeting objects it has increased range.

Basically fixes the annoying restriction on teleport, the normal one should have slightly reduced range to compensate and an animation, while teleporting to enemies should be animation-less. 

My notes to his last ability will come now. For most of warframes the last ability is like big boom a signiture thing everyone sees it everyone knwos it, but ash is suppose to be an assassin he shouldnt be the shinning star he should be the unseen warframe So instead of actually getting active skill he gets it as a " ASSASSINATION MODE" . What would this do is change all of his normal abilities to have different effect ofc they would cost more energy than the mode itself. The mode would eather be a turn on turn off anytime without energy cost, or one time energy cost with an X duration that would allow to use these abilities with reduced cost and then one passive boost.

We will go over with the passive boost as if his 4th ability had a duration: 

Passive gains bonus effects : 

More mov speed, meele attacks deal bonus X% ammount of finisher damage

Bows get reduced charge speed while other weapons get reduced reload time.

Trowing weapons hit harder and faster.

1st ability gets replaced with one powerful shuriken that deals extreme amount of dmg which scales with total ammount of enemies killed.

smoke: Will now create poison smoke with increased invisibility duration.

teleport would have same effect as fatal teleport,

That is my suggestion if ash was to be changed. Same but different. Hhe would fit as assassin warframe , would exceell at single target killing.

Please note that even with this i was having this idea with pure meele build as i usually play. Which means Huge risk and huge reward. For his stats use your imagination.

I also had in mind that he could finish a mission in stealth without using his weapons.

 

[(XBOX)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Novakin666 said:

I dont know why the warframe community has become like this but everyone is obsessed with reworking warframes even if all they need are number fixes and honestly DE needs to address this by taking the time to look at weaker warfranes and actually buffing their numbers and if that isn't enough and the warframe is still problematic change how they scale and use reworks as the last thing if all else fails and I hope after fortuna railjack and the new war or somewhere in between when they have some breathing room they look at warframes that need help and look to see if its numbers or there scaling and just dont completely rework a frame because they just weak.

Actually fixing frames wouldn't stop it. There's people suggesting reworks for some of the best frames in the game. It's a fad. If a new system is released, if someone gets a buff, if anyone gets or might get anything then everyone else wants a piece.

[(PSN)TitaniumSkillz07]

It's what the community thinks that this frame needs this and that over an ability I get that you want a balance

[Tenno.Rukasu]

The 'god' obsession. There's all kind of players here and they love different Warframes, yet everyone want to be respected as 'gods' with their respective roles. How about we just play for fun? Is that difficult? All games has their bad and good characters. Fighting, racing, RPG's, MOBA's... We are all gamers, we know that's common. Some bug reports, tweaks are acceptable, but reworking entire Warframes so your loved one could be 'one of the best'. Don't gonna fly. Send a resume to DE, maybe they're hiring and you will have the dream job as professional reworker.

[Enchillado]

The "problem" in question is pretty easy.

It's obvious that some people have their own tastes and playstyles, which makes it so it's impossible to make every frame interesting equally to each player. Then, there is an illusion, or the popular point of view, or the real deal that some X is worse that Y and underperforms. But the main reason for that is that some past reworks are interesting and made warframes so much better that it adds the impression that any rework will be great anyways, and that's only half. Bigger half of that reason is getting bored by something that leads to a need of fresh and new thing, but retaining the theme or something else that you really liked.

And what you say about this is only another small piece in a huge river of opinions, so don't present it like it's superior to "reworkers" point of view. Especially if there are no commas, jeez.