We have arcane slots, that's great! But then why arcane helmets are still helmets?

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

They removed them, the only arcane helmets available are the ones being traded...

Players bought them in year 1, De respected that, and they got to keep them...I have a few, they just get used or pulled off, just depends on the mood, but De was kind enough to take in consideration of my purchase and early support for their game...They can remove them if they want to refund me the going rate of platinum for an arcane helm..which is still significant thanks to demand over the last 5 years,...I'm sure I'll hear NO or NAH, along side a essay... because you gotta love forums...

Edited July 25, 2018 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[ReinAxefury]

3 hours ago, baldy117 said:

that aint a QoL change tho

It doesn't affect gameplay, only a cosmetic part, therefore it is a QoL change.

1 hour ago, ElocFreidon said:

I'd be fine with removing the arcanes from the helmets. I'd rather use good looking skins. But I think that would be tough since they are Warframe specific unless they keep that limitation.

That's exactly my point, they should be kept that way and maybe, just maybe, only as a suggestion, give other frames arcanes like that, those arcanes don't necessarily need to be stat boosts at all, it could even be buffed a twist from normal arcanes buffed or changed to work better specifically for that frame (and no, nothing like energize ok? just before someone cries says something like that), just as an example give Rhino or Nezha an "On Cast" Version of Arcane Guardian, that kind of thing, nothing game-breaking.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

They removed them, the only arcane helmets available are the ones being traded...

Players bought them in year 1, De respected that, and they got to keep them...I have a few, they just get used or pulled off, just depends on the mood, but De was kind enough to take in consideration of my purchase and early support for their game...They can remove them if they want to refund me the going rate of platinum for an arcane helm..which is still significant thanks to demand over the last 5 years,...I'm sure I'll hear NO or NAH, along side a essay... because you gotta love forums...

This is about removing a cosmetic part of an item, not the item itself which shouldn't negatively affect it's price really. Please read the thread before posting.

[Educated_Beast]

6 hours ago, baldy117 said:

that aint a QoL change tho

It absolutely is a QoL change.  For example, Loki has two awesome legacy arcane helmets. One increases range (15% same as eximus mod) and one decreases effeciency (-15%). 

Now I use my A, B, and C slot loadouts.  For Loki, I have an invisible build and a radial disarm build on those slots.  For disarm, the range is better, for invisible, the effeciency is better. 

To change for each build, I have to go to appearance and manually change.  I cannot just program the specific builds into the arcane slots.  I have many other examples such as a range volt versus melee volt, or mixing / matching new arcanes with legacy (such as a duration trin build versus damage resistance build). 

Arcane slots are a QoL addition.  One of the better additions recently introduced into Warframe.  Definitely on my top 10 list of cool things DE has done for players.  Legacy helmets prevent smooth transitions between loadout slots for the min/max player with multiple builds for multiple warframes.  It is out of place, cumbersome, and unnessesary.  This request is just finishing the job to make arcanes consitent across the board.  

It is a win/win for everyone.  

[Dragazer]

On 2018-07-23 at 6:06 PM, baldy117 said:

we already have the Old and out dated Arcane Helmets replaced by Stat less versions

and what you propose would result in a out cry and you gotta sacrifice for power in this case Fashion for more power

There are literally zero sound arguments against this idea. Arcane helmets already take up a slot on our 2 arcane limit.

So why not just convert them to normal tradable Arcanes that are frame exclusive? How exactly is the value going change? the stats are still there exactly like it was just not tied to cosmetics.

What outcry are you talking about? I would love to gain the 15% efficiency from the Arcane Essence without looking like a submarine on two legs. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Dragazer

[FireSegment]

simply put, the arcane helmet are still there because DE respected the player who acquired them back when they still go that direction - trade looks for stats.

my guess is that they simply won't touch the arcane helmet ever again, not even for this quality of life change that you suggest (because it would break that original design intention of trade look for stats for those who still have it) 

[ReinAxefury]

3 minutes ago, FireSegment said:

simply put, the arcane helmet are still there because DE respected the player who acquired them back when they still go that direction - trade looks for stats.

my guess is that they simply won't touch the arcane helmet ever again, not even for this quality of life change that you suggest (because it would break that original design intention of trade look for stats for those who still have it) 

The original design for Arcane Helmets is flawed, DE know's that, now that we have arcane slots they have an opportunity to change it. If people bought them for what they where isn't really an issue, as they are still giving power and they can equip the helmet they want, including the helmet that arcane used to be. Remember Warframe is in Beta and everything is subject to change. This includes weapons, warframes and arcanes that have changed a lot from what they used to be.

Also, changes are made when people stands and say what they want, providing feedback, giving good arguments, etc. If we didn't, Warframe would be a totally different game from what it is now.

[blaes]

i agree wholeheartedly with OP. rather than equipping an arcane helmet to get the stats and locking an arcane slot in the process, i'd rather just put it in the arcane slot directly, freeing up my helmet to put whatever kind of fashion i want. it would also make it easier to switch between builds.

[ReinAxefury]

15 hours ago, blaes said:

it would also make it easier to switch between builds.

This, it's really annoying to change from my Trinity's blessing build with arcane aura to my EV build, as i have to remove and equip the helmet every time i swap builds.

[Educated_Beast]

3 hours ago, ReinAxefury said:

This, it's really annoying to change from my Trinity's blessing build with arcane aura to my EV build, as i have to remove and equip the helmet every time i swap builds.

It's like DE is punishing us for playing a long time and having all the helmets.  We made the content yes, but now we have it and you shouldn't use it.  We only left it because...

We have a new system in place that is awesome for arcanes.  There is no reason not to make legacy helmets into legacy arcanes and make the game consistent.  

Once this is done, there is no reason not to expand on the concept for all frames, add drops everywhere, make them tailored for new players who can't handle edilons (i.e. weaker than edilon arcanes but could be useful for min/max builds) and rebalance the very weak and very strong ones.  New corrupt arcanes do not have to be stat increases, it would be cooler if they were more like augment mods.  They could even synergize with arcane mods.  Hell, synicates could even trade some of them!

There is nothing to lose and everything to gain.  The 0.5% of population that has 10 of each of these may be pissed but who cares.  They can still trade new ones as well.

It's win/win all around.  

[ReinAxefury]

5 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

New corrupt arcanes do not have to be stat increases, it would be cooler if they were more like augment mods.

Actually i put some thought on this and i have a few concepts that could work, also there is the fact that current arcanes apart from being expensive are seen like an "optional" thing by many (im not one of those btw, just saying as not many people i've seen care enough to get them), if this type of arcanes where something you could get from say syndicates as an example, they would probably get more popular.

[RistN]

On 2018-07-24 at 12:03 AM, ReinAxefury said:

This thread is NOT ABOUT :

• Removing arcane helmets.

It should be.

[ReinAxefury]

32 minutes ago, RistN said:

It should be.

No it shouldn't, and it's not gonna happen anyway as people paid for those, so it's a waste of time even trying to argument why they should. On the other hand, a small QoL change (which is the reason of this thread) to them doesn't harm anyone.

[Educated_Beast]

20 hours ago, ReinAxefury said:

Actually i put some thought on this and i have a few concepts that could work, also there is the fact that current arcanes apart from being expensive are seen like an "optional" thing by many (im not one of those btw, just saying as not many people i've seen care enough to get them), if this type of arcanes where something you could get from say syndicates as an example, they would probably get more popular. 

Some of the strongest arcanes in the game (15% power on excel and frost, duration on trin, eff or range on loki, range on mag) were simple alerts.  

I'd like to see them spread all over, some from syndicates on the frames they support (like augments), some in derelict vaults (corrupt mods / arcanes), some on bosses, some from eximus units, some from void trader, some from alerts, etc.  

The key is, make them specialized.  The very weak and very strong ones can be rebalanced.  It is also possible to divide them into 10 divisions with same ranking system as edilon arcanes.  People with existing legacy helmets could be grandfathered in at max rank.  This would make them much more appealing to trade and a long term goal from syndicates.  

 

20 hours ago, RistN said:

It should be.

Just yet another troll wandering the internet, or do you actually believe your comment is intelligent feedback?  

Edited July 27, 2018 by Educated_Beast

[RistN]

3 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

Just yet another troll wandering the internet, or do you actually believe your comment is intelligent feedback?

Not trolling.I didn't elaborate on that just because op politely asked.Why I think they should be removed:

-Because they always come into question whenever there is a talk about evolution of Arcanes,like now .They were one of main reasons why we waited so much for arcanes to get removed from cosmetics and placed on arcane slots.

-Arcane helmets are bad.They don't give anything significant to stats.They are just a tool for someone to maximize some ability which in reality doesn't add much to it.Arcanes give much more than arcane helmets do and are not worthy of arcane slot.

-They are relics of past and until now we got a lot of new mods that are far better.

[MagPrime]

10 minutes ago, RistN said:

Not trolling.I didn't elaborate on that just because op politely asked.Why I think they should be removed:

-Because they always come into question whenever there is a talk about evolution of Arcanes,like now .They were one of main reasons why we waited so much for arcanes to get removed from cosmetics and placed on arcane slots.

-Arcane helmets are bad.They don't give anything significant to stats.They are just a tool for someone to maximize some ability which in reality doesn't add much to it.Arcanes give much more than arcane helmets do and are not worthy of arcane slot.

-They are relics of past and until now we got a lot of new mods that are far better.

- eh

- 25% increase isn't "bad" unless you're intending to mean it in an opposite manner. 

- Warframes are literal relics of the past, we should get rid of them too.

I earned or bought every single Arcane helm, I have spent real life money to obtain them simply because I could, and honestly? I support them being moved to arcane slots. 

I purchased them for their stats, looks be damned. 

OP's suggestion is a good one, and raises a valid question; why aren't the Arcane Helmets made unto slots by now? 

[RistN]

49 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

why aren't the Arcane Helmets made unto slots by now? 

Well I kinda said they are relics of past.If DE removed them from the game for whatever reason they did, then why would they bother with them any more?

56 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

25% increase isn't "bad" unless you're intending to mean it in an opposite manner. 

There are are total of 4 arcanes that are somewhat useful out of 27 I think.And that 25 % is the highest value Arcane helmet can have.Also when you see how much meters,seconds,dmg from strength this helmets give I would call them neglectable.

I think Aura helmet is one of thode best for Bless build but when you look how much it gives,3s more duration to link and 2,5 s more duration to bless, then we can live without it.

 

1 hour ago, MagPrime said:

I have spent real life money to obtain them

You mean you purchased plat to get them?Because they were dropping from alerts and could be traded until this day.

[ReinAxefury]

3 minutes ago, RistN said:

Well I kinda said they are relics of past.If DE removed them from the game for whatever reason they did, then why would they bother with them any more?

5 minutes ago, RistN said:

You mean you purchased plat to get them?Because they were dropping from alerts and could be traded until this day.

Aside from alerts, those helmets where in the marketplace, you could buy them with plat (and people did). As you said, these are "relics from the past", and existed before the arcanes we have now, and the thing is DE removed them because the at the time they wanted to avoid limiting fashion in exchange for power and they where also p2w to some extent as you where able to pay for an advantage (let's consider how power creep has scalated until now, and how those stats where way better in comparison to how much they are worth now).

Considering at the time the helmets where removed, Warframe lacked an arcane system as the one we have now, so their "solution" at the time was understandable. Yet, that doesn't mean those arguments stand now (they don't honestly).

17 minutes ago, RistN said:

There are are total of 4 arcanes that are somewhat useful out of 27 I think.And that 25 % is the highest value Arcane helmet can have.Also when you see how much meters,seconds,dmg from strength this helmets give I would call them neglectable.

Arcane helmets aren't broken mandatory stuff, just mere upgrades to some stats and not by much as you point, and some aren't that good anyway. That's a good thing, you see, many people don't use arcanes, there are many reasons why, but one of the biggest reasons is because how expensive is to get into arcanes. Taking that into account, and considering the arcane system we have now, arcane helmets could be transformed into lesser arcanes (and stop being helmets), maybe even reworked a bit and reintroduced as @Educated_Beast has pointed a few times on this thread, as that would remove the helmet part (which was the main problem in the first place) and become rewards for future content or replace useless fillers on some drop tables/alerts.

People who are not going to pay 400 plat for an arcane guardian or whatever other arcane set, may have at least a better introduction to arcanes than "you have to capture Eidolons all your life, pay hundreds of plat or be a slave of PoE to have 10 copies of the same arcane to max it", because let's be honest, that's a big turn off for some people. Better than that, lesser arcanes could end up being an introductory step into the arcane system for new players. If current arcanes are way better than this helmets, reworking them into pure arcanes isn't going to change that.

 

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, RistN said:

Well I kinda said they are relics of past

 

2 hours ago, RistN said:

They are relics of past

Kinda literally said it.

 

1 hour ago, RistN said:

If DE removed them from the game for whatever reason they did, then why would they bother with them any more?

 

2 hours ago, MagPrime said:

I earned or bought every single Arcane helm, I have spent real life money to obtain them simply because I could

 

1 hour ago, RistN said:

There are are total of 4 arcanes that are somewhat useful out of 27 I think.And that 25 % is the highest value Arcane helmet can have.Also when you see how much meters,seconds,dmg from strength this helmets give I would call them neglectable.

25% range on my nuke build is pretty significant.

1 hour ago, RistN said:

I think Aura helmet is one of thode best for Bless build but when you look how much it gives,3s more duration to link and 2,5 s more duration to bless, then we can live without it.

Those 3 seconds make a lot of difference in some builds.

 

1 hour ago, RistN said:

You mean you purchased plat to get them?Because they were dropping from alerts and could be traded until this day.

 

2 hours ago, MagPrime said:

I earned

 

[---Merchant---]

I have every arcane helmet ingame and my clan is called Arcane Traders because how all my members had full collection of them few years ago.

I agree that it is shame to buy 300pl skin pack and then being "forced" to use ugly helmet because it does give some unbeatable stats like 25% movement speed.
But I m too scared of losing my collection  so I rather see no change and just deal with it :^(

[ReinAxefury]

7 hours ago, MidoriFuse said:

I have every arcane helmet ingame and my clan is called Arcane Traders because how all my members had full collection of them few years ago.

I agree that it is shame to buy 300pl skin pack and then being "forced" to use ugly helmet because it does give some unbeatable stats like 25% movement speed.
But I m too scared of losing my collection  so I rather see no change and just deal with it :^(

1. You can't lose your collection. As said above, people paid money for those helmets, DE can't and won't remove them.
2. Thank you for your honest opinion. I don't want anyone losing their arcane helmets, just make them into pure arcanes.

[Educated_Beast]

On 2018-07-27 at 9:12 PM, RistN said:

Well I kinda said they are relics of past.If DE removed them from the game for whatever reason they did, then why would they bother with them any more?

 

From that perspective, why even have a feedback thread?  Got a good idea that improves old broken content, makes it available for new players, and adds new content for veterans / collectors.  To bad, what's done is done. 

Since im 100% certain you have not bothered to read entire thread, here is a copy +paste of link that lists all helms below.  Some of them could be considered started arcanes for new players, but some are pure awesome and worth making your 4-forma prime frame ugly (frost, excal, Loki x2, banshee, rhino, mag, nyx, trinity, and volt).  

- Now imagine new currupt arcanes for harrow, Octavia, oberon, etc. that's not just stat increase, but more like an augment mod.  Old helmet stats can be reviewed and rebalanced with negative stats (like corrupt mods) so veteran min/max still can find a home.  

- imagine new content for new players to get foot in door with arcanes (alerts, events, bosses, syndicates, etc)

- Imagine being able to use with any helmet (not just style but QoL with multiple builds in A, B, C config)

DE should revisit because it's an easy way to add a ton of content within an existing system but add for both old and new players.  

 

For reference:

Ash Scorpion Helmet
Aim Glide and Wall Latch Duration (+?%)
Ability Efficiency (-5%)

Ash Locust Helmet
Maximum Energy (+20%)
Sprint Speed (-3%)

Banshee Reverb Helmet
Maximum Energy (+10%)
Maximum Health (-5%)

Banshee Chorus Helmet
Ability Efficiency (+10%)
Aim Glide and Wall Latch (-5%)

Ember Phoenix Helmet
Maximum Energy (+25%)
Maximum Shields (-5%)

Ember Backdraft Helmet
Maximum Health (+15%)
Sprint Speed (-3%)

Excalibur Avalon Helmet
Maximum Shields (+25%)
Maximum Health (-5%)

Excalibur Pendragon Helmet
Ability Strength (+15%)
Armor (-5%)

Frost Aurora Helmet
Armor (+25%)
Maximum Health (-5%)

Frost Squall Helmet
Ability Strength (+15%)
Maximum Shields (-5%)

Loki Essence Helmet
Ability Efficiency (+15%)
Armor (-5%)

Loki Swindle Helmet
Ability Range (+15%)
Maximum Health (-5%)

Mag Coil Helmet
Ability Range (+25%)
Maximum Shields (-5%)

Mag Gauss Helmet
Maximum Energy (+25%)
Sprint Speed (-3%)

Nyx Menticide Helmet
Bullet Jump Velocity (+?%)
Maximum Shields (-5%)

Nyx Vespa Helmet
Ability Efficiency (+15%)
Armor (-5%)

Rhino Thrak Helmet
Maximum Health (+25%)
Sprint Speed (-5%)

Rhino Vanguard Helmet
Sprint Speed (+25%)
Ability Strength (-5%)

Saryn Hemlock Helmet
Sprint Speed (+10%)
Maximum Health (-5%)

Saryn Chlora Helmet
Bullet Jump Velocity (+10%)
Ability Duration (-5%)

Trinity Aura Helmet
Ability Duration (+25%)
Maximum Health (-5%)

Trinity Meridian Helmet
Maximum Shields (+15%)
Ability Efficiency (-5%)

Vauban Esprit Helmet
Maximum Energy (+10%)
Maximum Shields (-10%)

Vauban Gambit Helmet
Bullet Jump Velocity (+?%)
Ability Duration (-10%)

Volt Storm Helmet
Ability Strength (+10%)
Aim Glide and Wall Latch Duration (-5%)

Volt Pulse Helmet
Ability Duration (+10%)
Maximum Shields (-5%)

[Dragazer]

On 2018-07-30 at 5:12 PM, Educated_Beast said:

From that perspective, why even have a feedback thread?  Got a good idea that improves old broken content, makes it available for new players, and adds new content for veterans / collectors.  To bad, what's done is done. 

Since im 100% certain you have not bothered to read entire thread, here is a copy +paste of link that lists all helms below.  Some of them could be considered started arcanes for new players, but some are pure awesome and worth making your 4-forma prime frame ugly (frost, excal, Loki x2, banshee, rhino, mag, nyx, trinity, and volt).  

- Now imagine new currupt arcanes for harrow, Octavia, oberon, etc. that's not just stat increase, but more like an augment mod.  Old helmet stats can be reviewed and rebalanced with negative stats (like corrupt mods) so veteran min/max still can find a home.  

- imagine new content for new players to get foot in door with arcanes (alerts, events, bosses, syndicates, etc)

- Imagine being able to use with any helmet (not just style but QoL with multiple builds in A, B, C config)

DE should revisit because it's an easy way to add a ton of content within an existing system but add for both old and new players.  

 

For reference:

Ash Scorpion Helmet
Aim Glide and Wall Latch Duration (+?%)
Ability Efficiency (-5%)

Ash Locust Helmet
Maximum Energy (+20%)
Sprint Speed (-3%)

Banshee Reverb Helmet
Maximum Energy (+10%)
Maximum Health (-5%)

Banshee Chorus Helmet
Ability Efficiency (+10%)
Aim Glide and Wall Latch (-5%)

Ember Phoenix Helmet
Maximum Energy (+25%)
Maximum Shields (-5%)

Ember Backdraft Helmet
Maximum Health (+15%)
Sprint Speed (-3%)

Excalibur Avalon Helmet
Maximum Shields (+25%)
Maximum Health (-5%)

Excalibur Pendragon Helmet
Ability Strength (+15%)
Armor (-5%)

Frost Aurora Helmet
Armor (+25%)
Maximum Health (-5%)

Frost Squall Helmet
Ability Strength (+15%)
Maximum Shields (-5%)

Loki Essence Helmet
Ability Efficiency (+15%)
Armor (-5%)

Loki Swindle Helmet
Ability Range (+15%)
Maximum Health (-5%)

Mag Coil Helmet
Ability Range (+25%)
Maximum Shields (-5%)

Mag Gauss Helmet
Maximum Energy (+25%)
Sprint Speed (-3%)

Nyx Menticide Helmet
Bullet Jump Velocity (+?%)
Maximum Shields (-5%)

Nyx Vespa Helmet
Ability Efficiency (+15%)
Armor (-5%)

Rhino Thrak Helmet
Maximum Health (+25%)
Sprint Speed (-5%)

Rhino Vanguard Helmet
Sprint Speed (+25%)
Ability Strength (-5%)

Saryn Hemlock Helmet
Sprint Speed (+10%)
Maximum Health (-5%)

Saryn Chlora Helmet
Bullet Jump Velocity (+10%)
Ability Duration (-5%)

Trinity Aura Helmet
Ability Duration (+25%)
Maximum Health (-5%)

Trinity Meridian Helmet
Maximum Shields (+15%)
Ability Efficiency (-5%)

Vauban Esprit Helmet
Maximum Energy (+10%)
Maximum Shields (-10%)

Vauban Gambit Helmet
Bullet Jump Velocity (+?%)
Ability Duration (-10%)

Volt Storm Helmet
Ability Strength (+10%)
Aim Glide and Wall Latch Duration (-5%)

Volt Pulse Helmet
Ability Duration (+10%)
Maximum Shields (-5%)

Rather just keep the old arcanes as discontinued but not tied to cosmetics. That way people don't lose any value from them. 

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, Dragazer said:

Rather just keep the old arcanes as discontinued but not tied to cosmetics. That way people don't lose any value from them. 

I'm fine with this.

[Educated_Beast]

6 hours ago, Dragazer said:

Rather just keep the old arcanes as discontinued but not tied to cosmetics. That way people don't lose any value from them. 

Fair enough, that's an honest opinion.  But, who is losing what?  I've got enough platinum to where im not interested in selling any of mine.  If someone offered 1K for one of the nice ones, id rather have the exclusive.  

Sucks to be a new player.  

Now if they became available again in some form or another, and someone offer 50P for a spare I just picked up, now I made plat versus not making any.  

I just don't see that there are enough copies out for sale for anyone to be losing anything.  Maybe a handful of traders left, then it's in hands of collectors (which is why they are so expensive).  

With exception of excal prime, which was a promise by developer, I think exclusives are bad for business.  I think a rework would do wonders for game in terms of new content (from old content).  

But, I'd still be happy with QoL change from helmets to an arcane.  

Edited August 1, 2018 by Educated_Beast

[StabbyTentacles]

On 2018-07-24 at 8:03 AM, ReinAxefury said:

TL;DR: Arcane Helmets should be just plain arcanes, that way we can equip any helmet.

Agreed, it will happen, the question is when?

Arcane Helmets should be moved to a 3rd slot.

And if your panties can't handle that, (player's whose panties can't handle that) a second slot, I guess.

And renamed (If we do move Arcane Helmets to a 3rd slot. : (Spaghetti is just long bread in disguise.)