We have arcane slots, that's great! But then why arcane helmets are still helmets?

[ReinAxefury]

I think DE should just transform them into warframe-specific arcanes, like any other arcane, but only the specific warframe could equip, that way we can be free to use any helmet we want.

Now, don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean losing the arcanes or the helmets, it just means making them into 2 different things (the arcane and the non-arcane helmet). IE: If you have the Arcane Aura Helmet, you get the Arcane Aura (specific for Trinity, so only Trinity can use it) AND the Aura Helmet.

I really want to use the helmet of my Mag's Pneuma Skin, but i don't want to miss the 25% range from my arcane coil helmet, and that's not the only case, but just an example as i have the same issue with other frames.

Also, if this happened, i think expanding the warframe-specific arcanes (which shouldn't be tied to helmets) into newer frames the same way as we have augments, could allow for more interesting builds. It doesn't really have to be all plain stats, maybe some "on crit/finisher/cast/kill or whatever" effects that synergizes well with each frame could work.

Im aware this is not the first time it's been said that arcane helmets should change, but i just think warframe-specific arcanes could be something really interesting if done well.

 

Edit: I think people just doesn't get it, so ill have to make it very clear.

Edit 2: I slightly changed the title to better reflect what this thread is about.

This thread is NOT ABOUT :

• Removing arcane helmets.
• Making more arcane helmets.

TL;DR: Arcane Helmets should be just plain arcanes, that way we can equip any helmet.

Edited July 26, 2018 by ReinAxefury
a TL;DR

[baldy117]

we already have the Old and out dated Arcane Helmets replaced by Stat less versions

and what you propose would result in a out cry and you gotta sacrifice for power in this case Fashion for more power

[ReinAxefury]

Just now, baldy117 said:

we already have the Old and out dated Arcane Helmets replaced by Stat less versions

and what you propose would result in a out cry and you gotta sacrifice for power in this case Fashion for more power

Ummm i think im not understanding well, you are telling me you are ok sacrificing fashion for more power? (use commas dude).

[baldy117]

its late so im sleepy  and yes either go Full Fashion or make the arcane helm work with fasion

[ReinAxefury]

Just now, baldy117 said:

its late so im sleepy  and yes either go Full Fashion or make the arcane helm work with fasion

 

Better go to sleep. There is no reason not to be able to use those arcanes and be able to use fashion at the same time.

[That1Cactus]

They're relics of the past and sadly something that people make platinum bank off of because of it. (Since they're tradeable). And since they've been around and like that since before the tribute milestone primed mods became untradeable I feel like the moment they do the same to the Arcane helmets all those traders getting a ton of platinum from them will end up in chaos because their source of capital is now worthless.

[ReinAxefury]

1 minute ago, That1Cactus said:

They're relics of the past and sadly something that people make platinum bank off of because of it. (Since they're tradeable). And since they've been around and like that since before the tribute milestone primed mods became untradeable I feel like the moment they do the same to the Arcane helmets all those traders getting a ton of platinum from them will end up in chaos because their source of capital is now worthless.

I don't see that as an issue. Any "market" in warframe at some point goes down, rivens go up and down as meta changes, primed mods prices change with every baro visit, and the list goes on and on. So, why should arcane helmets be any different from that? Can't say anything about making them untradeable, but for that to happen it would mean they are coming back (as pure arcanes) if not it wouldn't make sense.

[Educated_Beast]

This comes up all the time and has for years.  I made a suggestion to call them corrupt arcanes, introduce them again (with new ones for all new warframes), and completely separate stats from cosmetics, so naturally people hate it. 

As a side note, I also made a thread requesting stats be removed from sigils and have a drop down list in aresenal to select allied syndicate.  People were against this to!  There are a ton of idiots that play Warframe and DE makes the same mistake integrating stats to cosmetics.  

Hurts the steam guys to.  Why would I buy a fancy helmet and lose 15% power, 25% range, or 15% efficiency?  I don't but I would.  

Love the idea, won't happen because for some reason, majority of players are happy with stats on cosmetics and reduced flexibility.  

 

[Fallen_Echo]

7 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

This comes up all the time and has for years.  I made a suggestion to call them corrupt arcanes, introduce them again (with new ones for all new warframes), and completely separate stats from cosmetics, so naturally people hate it. 

As a side note, I also made a thread requesting stats be removed from sigils and have a drop down list in aresenal to select allied syndicate.  People were against this to!  There are a ton of idiots that play Warframe and DE makes the same mistake integrating stats to cosmetics.  

Hurts the steam guys to.  Why would I buy a fancy helmet and lose 15% power, 25% range, or 15% efficiency?  I don't but I would.  

Love the idea, won't happen because for some reason, majority of players are happy with stats on cosmetics and reduced flexibility.  

 

I soo far have only seen two types of arguments against such changes.

One is the "its fine" mentality what is essentially saying that if i like something thats the proof of that thing being perfext.

The other is the "fear" arguments that they think that such change means they gonna lose these items or be forces to choose between two options.

[ShortCat]

11 hours ago, baldy117 said:

yes either go Full Fashion or make the arcane helm work with fasion

This was THE reason arcane helemts were transformed into pure cosmetic items, so that the palyers don't have to choose between fashion and power. Old arcane helmets were not removed, because people could buy then directly from DE and they cannot simply remove bought items.

11 hours ago, That1Cactus said:

They're relics of the past and sadly something that people make platinum bank off of because of it. (Since they're tradeable). And since they've been around and like that since before the tribute milestone primed mods became untradeable I feel like the moment they do the same to the Arcane helmets all those traders getting a ton of platinum from them will end up in chaos because their source of capital is now worthless.

I don't understand this point at all. Those helmets are already tradeable right now, make those arcanes tradeable and nothing changes, except QoL.

[schilds]

DE have said that putting this kind of stat boost (outside of mods) into the game was a mistake. In other words, what they actually want to do to make arcane helmets "not a thing" is to just delete those arcane helmets with their stat boots, without replacing them or shifting the effects somewhere else.

The current system is a compromise between getting rid of them altogether, and respecting the investment some players have in them. They can't just delete them, and they're not going to make them more accessible, so the game is stuck with them as they are with the restrictions of only being able to access them through trade and having to sacrifice fashion for your stat boost. 

Edited July 24, 2018 by schilds

[Educated_Beast]

4 hours ago, schilds said:

 

The current system is a compromise between getting rid of them altogether, and respecting the investment some players have in them. They can't just delete them, and they're not going to make them more accessible, so the game is stuck with them as they are with the restrictions of only being able to access them through trade and having to sacrifice fashion for your stat boost. 

Or like my suggestion in archived thread, embrace the change. Make corrupt arcanes a thing.  Introduce new ones for new frames (harrow, gara, etc).  Place them in various locations as rewards in rare chests, syndicate rewards, boss drops, quests (i.e. starter arcane). 

These are arcanes but different, they have + and - and do not give revives.  It is possible to tier them into 10 divisions (those grandfathered in would have rank 3 already).  Adjust existing legacy arcanes stats so there is a bigger negative.  Most of those old arcanes are useless but a few are top-tier best in game arcanes with no drawbacks.

Make available to all by reintroducing but rebalance them by adding bigger drawbacks.  

I have every single legacy helmet.  Im not saying this out if jealousy.  I would like everyone to have ability to earn what I have.  I'd also enjoy a new class of arcanes for all frames.  

 

[Antharon]

No, pls no corrupted arcanes or such things. Helmets should be purely cosmetic! And with stats should be worked with mods, not with fixed helmets. For example Excaliburs pendragon helmet, more ability power -> leads to everyone using only that arcane helmet. Boring

Edited July 24, 2018 by Antharon

[Educated_Beast]

15 minutes ago, Antharon said:

No, pls no corrupted arcanes or such things. Helmets should be purely cosmetic! And with stats should be worked with mods, not with fixed helmets. For example Excaliburs pendragon helmet, more ability power -> leads to everyone using only that arcane helmet. Boring

I never suggested that they remain cosmetic but a new type of arcane that fits in the arcane slot.  And yes, everyone would use 15% power because it is one of the top-tier best in game arcanes that new players can never get.  That's why I suggest a rebalance to existing and make the new ones moderate starter arcanes for new players that are months away from killing an edilon.  

For example, I wouldn't take away 15% power, I'd make it similar to blind rage so it increases effeciency.  Yes more power but can't use as often.  Loki's effeciency can come with a range penalty.  Mags range can come with decreased power, etc.  

Then new "corrupt" arcanes can be introduced all over the game universe which is fun to find, fun to min/max, and removes all stats from cosmetics making game consitent.  Not to mention makes the playing field level for new players.  

Similar new arcanes can be made for all the new frames introduced since the legancy helmet scandal for limbo, chroma, etc.  They don't have to be just stats, can be creative like augment mods to!  

Instead of sweeping it under the rug and pretending like it didn't happen, why not embrace it, rebalance, and introduce new content.  

 

Edited July 24, 2018 by Educated_Beast

[ReinAxefury]

56 minutes ago, Antharon said:

No, pls no corrupted arcanes or such things. Helmets should be purely cosmetic! And with stats should be worked with mods, not with fixed helmets. For example Excaliburs pendragon helmet, more ability power -> leads to everyone using only that arcane helmet. Boring

Omg this people... This thread is just about making helmets pure cosmetics and the arcane part from those helmets into pure arcanes totally unrelated to what helmet are you using. What @Educated_Beast is saying, and the reason why i made this thread is exactly because everyone using the same helmet for the stats limits fashion already.

@Antharon i'll explain this in another way, as i pointed before: imagine pendragon arcane helmet ok? Now imagine it being an arcane Pendragon (equipable by excalibur only) you equip it on your arcane slot (not as a helmet), allowing you to equip any helmet you want(including the normal Pendragon). Does that example make it more clear what this thread is about? I hope it does. And also, i don't want them to stop being tradeable as someone else pointed before, just make that change i explained before for fashion purposes, that's it. The idea of expanding on more new arcanes specific to each warframe is like a bonus there, not really the most important part, but still i think it's worth exposing it as an option and nothing else.

 

Imo, arcane helmets and the desicions taken about them are something outdated, now we have way better arcanes, we have rivens and more powerful weapons. Depending on how well this is balanced, i don't see corrupted arcanes being a problem. And i want this to be really clear they need to be properly balanced okay? Like a decent trade off, or effects that doesn't give pure stat boosts, but actually change the way a warframe is played for more variety on builds, not for more power creep.

[-.SP.-G43riel]

i wonder if ANYone from the people requesting change and removal of arcane helmets have ANY on them?

while on that note lets also remove all the mods that dont and wont ever drop anymore right?

jealousy much


 

Edited July 24, 2018 by -.SP.-G43riel

[ReinAxefury]

1 hour ago, -.SP.-G43riel said:

i wonder if ANYone from the people requesting change and removal of arcane helmets have ANY on them?

while on that note lets also remove all the mods that dont and wont ever drop anymore right?

jealousy much

 

Yeah, i happen to have a few:

Spoiler

 I just don't like the fact of how they limit my Fashionframe and i want specifically that part fixed by removing only the cosmetic part from them, allowing for more options as helmets. Also, i wouldn't mind those arcanes being available for everyone, actually is part of the idea on this thread, so i invite you to read more than just the title before posting okay?

[PatternistSlave]

They were ostensibly removed and for good reasons.  If you choose to keep using them despite those reasons that's your prerogative.  The line between arcanes and mods is blurred enough without introducing stat change ones.

[ReinAxefury]

54 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

They were ostensibly removed and for good reasons.  If you choose to keep using them despite those reasons that's your prerogative.  The line between arcanes and mods is blurred enough without introducing stat change ones.

Again, the "arcanes with stats" isn't a valid argument since there can be other ways for new  warframe-specific arcanes to work without falling into stat boosts, it's even said at the first post of this thread.

[Educated_Beast]

3 hours ago, -.SP.-G43riel said:

i wonder if ANYone from the people requesting change and removal of arcane helmets have ANY on them?

while on that note lets also remove all the mods that dont and wont ever drop anymore right?

jealousy much


 

If you bothered to read, I have them all.  Yes, every single one of them.  

That does not change the fact it would be a better game if new players could get them. 

Also the game would be better with no stat related cosmetics. 

The game would be even better with new corrupt arcanes for all frames (like alt helms) that reintroduce old ones balanced for today and give new ones like augment mods with a + for minus.  Not all new ones need to be skill related.  Would give new players something to use early and old players ability to min/max.

The game would be better with more content in alerts, quests, rare chests, rare drops from eximus, etc.  

The game is best when balanced without all the exclusives (excluding excal prime which is special example).  Hell, we can even get vraton/lato vandal now!

I introduced a friend to play, showed him some of my builds, and he got frustrated.  One of the reasons (among other grind related things) is he could never get these without big spending (some over 500 plat which is stupid since I got them in an alert).  

 

[ReinAxefury]

26 minutes ago, Educated_Beast said:

I introduced a friend to play, showed him some of my builds, and he got frustrated.  One of the reasons (among other grind related things) is he could never get these without big spending (some over 500 plat which is stupid since I got them in an alert).  

That's a really good point you brought there, same happened to me when showing to my friends my mag build, i had to adapt it to not use the coil arcane.

[Cloudyvisage]

I find the concept of having what is effectively a secret item in the game out there somewhere quite cool. The helmets are effectively cut off, there are no more but they remain behind, a legacy of the past.

Just the idea of it is interesting, I don't need them nor do they benefit or damage the game by existing in their limited state. A convenient bonus of our game being PvE, "You got an arcane helmet for your favorite frame? That's awesome, lucky you! Let's go kick terry, gary and harry and steal their Eidolon cores!"

Probably the reason I like the in-game interactions so much, as a vet I occasionally trawl region chat looking for some poor MR2 who needs help and I tell them the secrets of Warframe. This game has secrets, lots of them and Arcane helmets are just one of them.

[ReinAxefury]

53 minutes ago, Cloudyvisage said:

The helmets are effectively cut off, there are no more but they remain behind, a legacy of the past.

Except they don't need to be like that? The "good reasons" DE had to remove them are outdated at this point, they aren't a real argument now considering that was before the old arcanes existed, which now are buffed and we have even more crazy stuff like rivens, operators, umbra mods, etc. Also, it doesn't really need to be all stat boosts, there are many other ways to expand on this without getting into a power creep issue.

41 minutes ago, Cloudyvisage said:

I don't need them nor do they benefit or damage the game by existing in their limited state.

Those helmets are there for everyone to see, people sell them for huge prices and they are no secret, like spend a few minutes on the wikia or trade chat and you know about them already. Also, you caring about them or not doesn't change the fact that actual arcane helmets exist and give a boost on stats and make a difference.

49 minutes ago, Cloudyvisage said:

A convenient bonus of our game being PvE

This is about cosmetic items that have stat boosts at the same time and a request to remove the cosmetic part from them, a pure QoL change to allow better fashionframe. It doesn't change its "legacy", it doesn't change its "value", it doesn't change anything else. So even if my request was accepted you can still go and tell those mr2 about that "mysterious secret" and then go and capture Eidolons with them if you want.

[baldy117]

that aint a QoL change tho

[ElocFreidon]

I'd be fine with removing the arcanes from the helmets. I'd rather use good looking skins. But I think that would be tough since they are Warframe specific unless they keep that limitation.