0_The_F00l

I too will not be bothering with the max reward at 37 points in EDA unless I get a good team setup or the loadout lucks out. I am seeing this as a common issue , perhaps a better means to unlock EDA would be in order.

The exact number difference would be in a range , as not all weapons are equally capable to use all multipliers. The most heavily affected would be the outliers. As I said it is a more complex formula than a straight forward d=b*e^x , where both e and x are variable. Where e is the functional bonus per multiplier and x is the number of multipliers. It is reflected in your own observations , you have shown it as independent variable , I have considered it a function of two. Again , not straight forward and is only for representation to explain my stance. In my methodology , by pure multiplicative function it would look like. D= (k1+k2+k3)*(k4+k5+k6)+(k7+k8+k9) It will reduce overall damage done by most weapons of course , and that is the intention. You and I both know that is not the full picture. It's at least multiplicative with multiple variables (as you have shown already) not linear , and changing base damage (or base stats) will not help variety or balance. I have also show what happens when you change the bonus per multiplier in my tables in both examples. The objective is to control the damage , not to add to it. I think you have some typos or switched some instance between innate and elemental , Assuming you are talking about individual DoT calculations when a proc happens. The calculations would be based on the element damage (innate elemental + modded elemental of same type) not the total damage of the weapon , so yes , even the DoT damage would be based on a smaller value and be reduced. I believe the current over the top multiplicative design is what is poor for game growth and balance. A bit overdramatic , as I said there would be multipliers it would just not scale as fast and as high as we currently see. You are free to go through each individual weapon. Players would see that if damage mods after a point are not as effective they will shift to more utility mods that help them so more effective damage. A weapon that does 10000 damage but has a fire rate of 0.8 ... Maybe make the damage 8000 and increase fire rate to 1.6 to still get better DPS and also feel good. A weapon with 8 bullets , 1000 damage each , but takes 3 seconds to reload , maybe a better magazine or faster reload to reduce the downtime. If you focus purely on the final damage per shot on paper you will miss out on actual options available.

The point isn't how challenging it is. And I agree it greatly depends on the loadout available , what you have invested in it and your personally skill with it. Players with adaptive broad playstyles face less challenges than those used to a fixed narrow setup. The point is how it's any less artificial than the other modifiers. Making logical statements would make it easier to understand than stating things that are not. All the modifiers are artificial , just stating that they are artificial is not grounds to have it changed.

The bolto family has some satisfying sounds (especially if you headshot) The marelok family has some fun animations.

Please explain how it's less artificial than having reduced ammo (limiting you choices of weapon with poor economy), higher health enemies (reducing you choice of loadouts with not enough damage) , energy draining (reducing choice of frames and abilities ) , CC immune enemies (reducing choice of frames with CC abilities even further) , unkillable enemies at range (reducing range choices) , enemies that directly sap health (reducing choice of frames with shields). I am not saying it is not artificial , but all limitations are designed and artificial. Challenge doesn't grow if you water it and leave it in the sunlight.

I am not sure if I am not explaining clearly enough or you are intentional acting ignorant. The numbers are only for representation purpose , (though it is possible to get some of them to that value or higher under the right circumstances thanks to mods and buffs) , it been simplified to compare the nature of what we have (multiplicative) vs my thought process (buckets) if we effectively double all the bonuses by some method. The exponential scaling is for the base damage depending on the number of multipliers available and the bonus for each type of boost, it is of course a more complex function than a simple e^x which is the reason why it's difficult to put them into proper power categories. Even minor changes can result in extremely large differences in final output thats why some weapons function much better than others. What you consider as problems is actually the crux of what I think will make it work for the purpose of balancing and improving variety of weapons and mods . I don't see why serration not affecting elements is nonsense , you havent really explained much. The contribution of damage also has a component of probability (which i did not include here and also needs to be reigned back ) 1.5x faction is less than 2x crit , but if you only have a 75% chance of crit it balances out. Not needing roar isn't unjust (what do you mean by just anyway ?) and it's already weird that you think roar is necessary. And having mods do roughly equal damage is good , you don't fall into the spiral of mandatory moda and have more build choice depending on your base weapon stats. Vulnerability is something I use as a catch all term , it's what gives enemies a debuff that makes them recieve more damage (viral status is what I have considered as an example that adds vulnerability) The damage calculation would become streamlined and have lower overall jumps , that is not paradoxical it's just a sequential outcome with more choices to reach similar output. What is counter intuitive is to have mods that only work well on weapons with specific stats with no other alternatives to it.

Most players that complain are doing so cause they are missing the map wide clear potential with minimal effort he had before. And Dante can still do that but just needs a little more emphasis on placement. Though I don't think anyone really said the Noctua is weak (I have personally showcased its potential to counter many such arguments) It does have strong support potential via tome mods too , but it suffers from the same issue that equinox had , you can either do support or you can do damage very well , but you can't do both. That's why there are DPS and Support builds for it. I really wish they add an exilus slot to it.

That's actually a good idea , I have had instances where i messed up the right input and regretted it for a few seconds. Remixing the same element twice to cancel it out would make sense from a mechanical and input perspective both.

I already gave a summarized breakdown (refer a few comments up), i have made such suggestions in different topics where i go into much more detail but i will limit to summaries as its a side topic and would deviate a lot from what is being discussed and sharing a multi page document would be just cause reading fatigue.

If it is done in vacuum , then yes , the problems of current "high level" content that are available will make them much harder to complete (which kind of should be the point) But lets not forget that the current high level content is exactly a response to the runaway damage we have, We have already gotten one change in the past for armor scaling of enemies(and the ese by which we can now strip them of armor) , and shields are not that problematic to deal with as they rise linearly , i foresee a change to enemy scaling and damage calculations to be done together in increments where we get reduced multipliers and enemies get lesser scaling or we get better means to reduce their armor or to bypass it completely (i have thoughts on having true damage be more accessible via other IPS types) In this topic , I was emphasizing how our weapon damage scales and how it can be controlled so the difference between the good , bad and the in between weapons would be on the same scale. we have also gotten a restructuring for weapons and frame stats on a global scale in the past either via changes to mods or the core mechanic itself and I am hoping something similar to happen over time so players get time to digest the changes (some things as i highlighted are already happening), So its not a far out concept.

They are still strong but not broken, i dont think you got what i am saying. Heres a table for some perspective Base 100 Multiplicative with each other Buckets Serration 100% 200 200 elemental 100% 400 300 vulnerable 100% 800 400 Crit 2 1600 800 Faction 1.5 2400 1400 Headshot 4 9600 3000 Final multiplier 100% 19200 6000 This is simplified and doesn't have some other calculations , but it puts the point across well enough. Each row is cumulative with the previous one, so for multiplicative you just multiply one after another but for buckets you start with [serration + elemental mods + vulnerability] multiply with [crit damage + faction damage + headshot damage] and then any final multipliers. In the current state all the various damage boosts can multiply of each other making a weapon that does 100 damage at base to something that can do 19200 damage , that's a 192x boost. but if we put the into buckets of 3 (serration , elemental and vulnerability in one , Crit faction and weakpoint into another and the obscure ones into third)we get a 60x boost at very moderate bonuses, but if i double each boost the difference is astounding. Base 100 Multiplicative with each other Buckets Serration 200% 300 300 elemental 200% 900 500 vulnerable 200% 2700 700 Crit 4 10800 2800 Faction 3 32400 4900 Headshot 8 259200 10500 Final multiplier 200% 777600 31500 Its this exponential increase in damage that is the issue that needs to be controlled, segregating the different multipliers into groups will make it more manageable while still making the investments into various combinations worthwhile.

As others said , this is only limited to specific ones.

What i took away from this: We may get kitguns and zaws as options, My reaction: Finally my inappropriately named weapons will shine

Noticed this Bug when testing out some of the changes, Location: Void sabotage fissure , Issue: Acolyte spawns in area behind portal and keeps teleporting the player near him , while the game keeps teleporting the player out of the portal in a loop until you manage to kill the acolyte by luck . Means to reproduce: not sure , but waiting near the portal on the other side when the acolyte transmission starts should work. Video captured for reference:

Haha , True , when I originally saw dante I thought "ok , there goes the equinox rework I guess" Cause the abilities did feel similar , or atleast has some concepts that would work well on equinox. The more i played though the more I saw the differences , and dante still kind of comes ahead by quite a margin. As to the OP , Gauss LoS , I am all in for , along with a slightly muted fx. Saryn has two abilities , that depend on range , you talking of spore or miasma ? I think it would be interesting to have spores work similar to wisps breach surge. The create literal spores that seek enemies in LoS on bursting. Equinox already has weird mechanics (not to mention the sheer complexity of her kit) that reduce damage the further you are , need you to get kills by external means and the damage type is also not ideal above a certain level (mostly due to Armor) . If you plan to change equinox collected damage to bleed then i wouldn't mind an los check.

Oh sorry , meant 123 on left and arrows on right. My bad. Glad you got it to work. I don't normally bother with the challenges I don't like , there is usually enough grace period and catchup capability to get everything even if you do half the stuff weekly.

Slow and steady it needs to be , I feel we are already getting there (eclipse was supposed to be converted to additive damage like serration but DR backed off, arca titron now has additive damage on slam capacitor , some weapons with unique traits work differently with galvanized mods etc.) And it's not just for the weekly mission , reigning in the imbalance is getting more and more necessary to avoid the issue players are observing. Most loadouts do not take advantage of all the multipliers at peak , the changes majorly would hit the outliers that do. It would also stop players being so dependent on "mandatory mods" and use more varying builds. I don't think anything below lvl 100 to 200 (standard) would be impacted , SP and equivalent modes may need some tweaking though.

Use both hands , Left on asd , right on arrows , You don't use the mouse

Quite the contrary my dear cat that vibes. I say we put the various multipliers in buckets such that they become additive with each other. Serration , elemental and vulnerability (like from viral and elemental resistances against health types) in one bucket , Crit damage , faction damage and weakpoint in another bucket , And a final "other" bucket for all the things that are obscure. So you can still get some multipliers but not so broken that you can reach the cap.

I genuinely cannot understand why some players think their way of playing is the only way to have fun and anything else must be some insidious plot. Why some players think getting every reward is a right and not something to be achieved. Why getting out of their comfort zone is the equivalent of walking on acid covered burning coals and that they must do it.

Sure , that's one way to do it , not sure it will be as effective at setting restrictions as RNG but that could be an option. We could just look at the sortie conditions if I am honest.

You know how we have so many various stats and multipliers that bounce off of each other ? Base damage , crit damage , faction damage , elemental damage , bonus damage , multishot, final damage, vulnerability etc. Some weapons get push these together better than others. If there were fewer multipliers the difference between weapons wouldn't be so drastic.

All difficulty is artificial in games , I never get this argument.

I would much rather get a stat squish to get all weapons on a common scale.

Don't I know it , I spent more time in the air than on the ground during the boss fight. It can be more troublesome in the underground tileset as it's relatively smaller. I think any CC with a damage as a condition doesn't work. But I couldn't really test too well. They are not slow at all , This was me the first time I encountered them and they were 20m away: "Oh so that's the liminus , I wonder how slow they .... OH CLEM MY HEALTH" It can be managed , but the description is clearly not accurate or slow is compared to warframe mobility.