Nobodys-Perfect

Cool, now you're gonna make LoS functional, are you gonna put this check on every AoE map clearer ability (Spores, Thermal sunder, peacemaker, mend and maim)? Or is this just going to be more of the hypocrisy in balance going forward we've come to expect at this point? If tragedy actually deserved it, all map clearers deserve it.

Clip showing the LoS changes Thanks DE very cool and epic balancing effort. I think you should try putting this LoS check on every ability in the game because there's nothing I love more than watching my casts get wasted due to tiny breakable clutter objects or slight corners in the level geometry completely soaking them up. Really fills me with a positive vibe and gets me raring to boot up any other game and have fun somewhere I'm not commonly subjected to such deranged knee-jerk "fixes." 😬

Got back from my two runs with everything maxed. Here are some of my scattered thoughts on it. Compared to running netracells I appreciate the variety. I kind of wish netracells would be more varied in a similar manner, since it looks like we're still running those thrice a week. Still, this feels like an improvement on that front. Netracells were beginning to feel samey quite quickly and this is welcome to reduce the tedium of doing five of those. You can see the loadout you're going to have to use for the additional points prior to committing to using your netracell charges for the week, you have a week to come up with an effective build for the equipment you're going to have to use for the listed challenges. Seems reasonably compelling to the minmaxer in me, the intent that whether or not you choose to do it each week depends on how confident you feel your particular options is gonna be something the playerbase probably has to wrestle with. I can see it not being very satisfying to quite a wide breadth of players, the same ones who don't enjoy the circuit. The fact it's basically an alternate mode (ethos of 'If it seems like pulling teeth, call it and do the 2 netracells instead') is definitely a new paradigm. I don't mind this attitude towards harder content. I might be singing a different tune if the common melee arcanes were still in the tables of regular netracells, but as this stands now I don't think it's too difficult or exclusionary for the extra rewards offered. More optional difficult content is probably always going to be a win in my book. It's gambling 2 netracell drops for the possibility of 3 or 5 with 1 guarenteed legendary/taushard + some small resource bonuses. The vosphor and lanthorns aren't really going to be much of a draw for anyone who's already deciding to do this. I'd have said provide enough vosphor to get a couple arcane packs minimum, so it seems more like an actual prize and you get the satisfaction of being able to use it for something. The modifiers in the missions I've seen for this week seem interesting and fun enough, nice little departures from the usual formula. Difficulty wise, I'd say these missions are tough at face value, but like any warframe mission won't be too hard to bruteforce even if your provided loadout has no hope. Team comp is still something you can utilize. Being able to smash your head against the missions as many times as you need to to get the rewards up to the grade you feel you can handle is good. I wouldn't mind a steel path grade past elite with another set of drops, minimum enemy level 600, SP enemy/spawn modifiers that just dropped a nice chunk of steel essence and kuva for the masochists in the class. I didn't feel particularly challenged by what I experienced this week. Conceptually, it's kinda spicy and getting a different loadout might push me, But nothing checked me or made me think particularly hard and as such I spent probably like 95% of my time in these missions treating them the same way I would a normal mission at the same enemy level. My experience is obviously gonna be influenced by the fact I pretty much have a viable build for everything in the game - I figure the duviri style randomness is going to put many many players off of this mode, as it leans even harder towards that veteran territory than duviri's SP circuit (no decrees or loaner items and preset mods here, though I can probably argue that's an improvement in some ways.) It being a set of different mission types with no loadout changing between them and done back to back is neat. Considering my loadout's viability in multiple mission types is something I like to do anyway. As an aside to that though I'm relieved the labs tileset doesn't host a spy node. Overall, I think this is a pretty good addition and I'm curious to see how the ideas here might go forward into new content.

Already on it chief.

See, the issue I suppose I take with this idea is that while I only use Nourish on a handful of builds, these nerfs don't actually encourage me at all to change it out. Because it's still essentially always going to be providing the two specific elements needed to finish those builds off and make them work as I intend. This is why I'm not really worried about the nerfs, I just don't think they accomplish anything, and I don't think pushing them further would accomplish anything positive either. Either it numerically stops being useful as the nerf passes the breakpoint of uselessness or it doesn't, since it hasn't, I don't see myself switching. The only things that could encourage me to are either the unfavorable option of completely killing the ability (say by nixing it's viral damage all together so I go "Okay, I'll just use dispensary for energy and put viral on my weapons") or providing other abilities that work better or are somehow more fun or interesting for it's specific niche. It's the fact it has a pretty important niche in people's build choices, in the meta, that is the problem here. The actual amount of damage and energy provided is a secondary concern to what the devs actually want to address, but it's the only thing they can actually influence to try and get people to use it less. This nerf is the contrition from the devs that's resulting from us having a paradigm where Viral is really good (arguably necessary) and energy regen is really good (and also arguably necessary) and them having given us a helminth ability that provides these two really good things at the same time in a manageable package. Pandoras box was opened and now we experience the regret of the devs sweating over metrics. We get given extremely power crept things as a matter of routine, and then often receive heavy handed nerfs that are targeted meta-reshuffling. It happens a lot and it's become an extremely predictable routine, to the point a lot of players basically hedge bets in their investment based on what they predict the next big nerf will be. It's a fundamentally dissatisfying state of affairs that can probably only be fixed if specific care is taken to avoid it happening. I'm speaking kind of broadly on this topic, beyond the scope of just the recent nerfs. When it comes right down to it, launching things strong (so impulsive players buy in) and nerfing them later looks and feels like a brazen sales tactic. It's not an ideal thing to be doing, balance in Warframe is extremely swingy, often arbitrary and seemingly agnostic to other options with similar performance. and I feel like it would be less of a headache for players if more care was taken with it. The best instances of balance improvement we've gotten have tended to be the ones that were large rework scale. (eg. When every single melee weapon was given a balance pass.) Probably because of the greater degree of time taken and comparative analysis needed there. The worst are usually these kind (Specific things taking a nerf bat because of metrics and or complaints.) because they tend to absolutely dumpster their target in terms of general viability (I should be clear, I don't think that's necessarily happened this time, just that it's a problem in general), and feel way more arbitrary in terms of numbers. Larger total system rebalances are always going to be preferable to nerf sniping in my book... Specifically in contexts like these abilities, where I don't think the players actually see a large difference in how their matches or build choices play out as a consequence of them. Besides, nerfs are much easier to swallow if you're pairing it with an absolute tsunami of weaker items being uplifted at the same time.

Just an FYI on what these abilities mean to me before we get to the point at hand: I don't really use or care for nourish or eclipse that heavily, or Roar, because I generally find self buff abilities a little boring. Nourish is the one I appreciate most of the set of these for the energy generation, but I have other options for that, so it's mostly a trivial convenience thing when it comes to my personal usage. We've recently seen arguably heavy handed nerfs to some "most used" helminth abilities, nourish and eclipse, stated in devstreams to have been done specifically because they're most used, out of a desire to make the playerbase change it up and use different helminth abilities. Is this the correct way to go about trying to produce that effect? Does heavily nerfing the most used options actually help? Or does it just shuffle the priority of players towards the next best option while generally inconveniencing and annoying them, all around accomplishing not very much at all, lining up the next best thing in it's particular category for it's eventual turn to get nerfed when the metrics indicate it's being overused? Players do seem to want a simple self buff that gives them damage so they're more effective - Nerf those options and they're not suddenly going to want to use other stuff like ensnare or fire blast in the slot they've dedicated for that. They're just going to move to Roar, and then you're eventually going to look at the metrics and justify nerfing roar the same way. Repeat ad nauseum until the options in this category are all at the absolute floor of effectiveness, and players are tired, bored, and unable to make the kind of builds they want/are used to. A statement I want to make here is that the ratio of the playerbase using particular abilities or items is indicative of their reception, not whether they're actually overpowered and deserving of a nerf (Say, because they can spoil the experience of others?) I can't generally think of a time I've ever wanted to complain about other players using eclipse or nourish to buff themselves or the group. It's not something that typically matters at all to the player experience! Which makes these kind of nerfs in particular more a symptom of what we might call "dev contrition" Dev contrition - "That thing we added is too strong, everyone is using it too much, We have to do something about it" You must always keep in mind that, while something may be strong, players don't share the same essential need for everything to be intrinsically balanced. As long as their general experience is typically good, it doesn't worry them. (meaning they can exercise their gameplay loop and still hit things/progress missions) Which is to say, these nerfs are a consequence of something the devs are worried about but the players are not, generally speaking. You can refer to the AoE weapon meta and wukong afk nerfs for an example of the kind of change that needed to happen to improve general player experience in public lobbies. But these ability nerfs seem more to be a problem that exists in the dev's heads (worrying about metrics) and not so much the players actual matches. So how do we improve this situation? Imo: 1. Smaller more careful nerfs. (Contrast your attitude towards the gentle gradual changes in riven disposition versus the apparent heavy handedness of these ability changes) 2. If it's a case of usage metrics, favor providing better alternatives to the overused items/abilities. Buff existing less effective alternatives and find ways to add new ones. This is probably the most difficult change to make, but also the most important point to focus on with the most benefits. 3. Remember that nerfs are typically the lazy solution. (Everyone I've asked about these changes has given me the general sentiment "Wow, that's a lazy fix to a barely real issue") 4. Don't get it in your head that you actually need to herd cats. Some options will assuredly end up far more popular than others. It's only a problem if it's actually a problem, and you know the playerbase at large is vocal about what they consider to be problems. (Smeeta nerfs are on the horizon, but strangely enough I've never seen anyone actually complain about it aside from the devs..) 5. Prioritize fixing pain points over efforts to maintain balance. IE: In a situation where you might consider nerfing something like overguard, instead first address things like overguard blocking "on damaged" abilities for other players. Redress those efforts based on how player attitude changes. The methods used and dev attitudes towards balancing stuff in Warframe has always struck me as one of it's major weaknesses. Finding and capitalizing on any way to improve your methodology here would probably be a great benefit to the game. Dante right now is a good example. You're planning what seem to be significant nerfs and he's basically just out of the door. I'm not here to say whether those nerfs are a good idea, necessary, or whether I like the idea of them or not, only that the fact they're happening is indicative of an issue in the area of your fundamental design allowing terribly extreme power creep to keep sneaking in, and the possibility that your reflex to nerf things might be just as overtuned and power crept as the issues you're trying to address. Reserving judgement on that point until I see what you actually do with him. I noticed my wife got a questionnaire about Dante specifically when we played one mission together and I was using him, when she hasn't played him at all. We both thought that was a little strange and had a moment of "Ah, here we go. They're gearing up to do something silly and knee-jerk again."

I'm pleased to have the additional difficulty of steel path, even if it's superficial bar raising - the extra rewards are a bonus, but the real benefit is the increased spawn rate. Higher enemy density is better, arguably necessary. As we get more and more items with kill and effect specific (status, headshot, etc) conditionals, using them optimally and taking advantage of the fun gimmicks requires more mobs to clear, and is often dependant on those mobs needing to live for more than an instant to work. I personally think the normal starchart would benefit from greater enemy density too. Of course, new players with no mods or effective strategies need to be accounted for though, so it's not an easy thing to just go and change. As someone who has helped friends into the game and through stuff, having steel path as a goal to aim for (both reaching it via starchart completion, and becoming strong enough to be viable there) seems like a pretty good addition to the journey. Its existence encourages, or rather, gives an actual reason with some material incentives, to optimize your modding and use at least -some- strategy. Yes there are warframes and weapons that easily trivialize it in various ways (insane dps or survivability.) I don't think this is really a bad thing. It lets a player curate their own level of difficulty to some extent, which is a benefit in letting players with a broad range of playstyles and skill levels work together in the co-op environment. Feeling kind of tired today? you can play something with better defenses so you can have a more relaxing time instead of forcing yourself to pay attention and shield gate.

Regulators being exalted is a bit of an odd one anyway. They feel and work mechanically more like they're coded as an ability than an exalted weapon - they have that status just so you can customize the elemental damage they do. If it's a bug, fixing it would make these archon mods even less useful, and it's not a particularly extreme benefit, just a nice build option.

You can make Mesa's regulators full armor strip using this mod and a couple emerald shards. It's quite useful. Prior to emerald shards existing, getting 2 procs out of 1 is a pivotal boost on lavos for increasing the number of procs, as his 4 basically has a CO effect and scales heavily with how primed the enemies are. Saves you an entire cast, which is a large benefit for him considering the cooldowns.

So each account starts with 15 base riven slots, and if you get to MR 30, you get another 30 slots for a total of 45. So each account merged would have either 15 or 45 slots that presumably won't transfer. We know the MR 30 slots are handled in a similar way to the basic slots (the cap is 150 pre MR 30) and you can't buy those slots. I can't tell you whether anything has gone wrong or not, unfortunately, but hopefully this info helps figure it out.

How many additional riven slots did you have on each account before the merge, and how many afterward? If you were hitting the capacity cap of 180 I'm not sure how you'd buy more. The way this is phrased leads me to think it may be a different issue.

When you get extra riven slots from daily tribute and you're already at the cap of 180, those slots are held in stasis until the cap increases, at which point you recieve them. I have no way to tell you for sure, but maybe your slots over 180 are subject to the same effect? If they raise the cap to, say, 200 at some point, you might find you automatically get the new slots without paying for them. Don't take my word for it until a DE staff member or support confirms that though. As I understand things, bought riven slots are held like an owned item, but hidden. As in, you can technically own more than the cap, but the cap limits your access to them. There also isn't any visibility on how many you have past the cap anywhere. I'm only guessing, but if the merge adds riven slots together appropriately, you're probably just invisibly holding those additional 69 or so slots. Hopefully. Good luck.

On the matter of Qorvex and Lavos being ugly - I think their aesthetics are well designed and don't get enough credit. Both of these warframes are "Lab" themed, and heavy-set. Their design is intent is not conventionally beautiful because the aesthetic they're going for is extremely practical. Lavos wears thick, bulky haz-mat like protective gear shaped to deflect chemical splashes mixed with the snake-tubes and vials. The ugliness comes from it being a "mad scientist's cutting edge experimental gear" type of character trope. Qorvex is basically a no-frills built-for-purpose golem body for us to pilot. Gives me the impression that doc Entrati pieced this together for us in ten minutes with whatever he happened to have in his workshop's bottom drawer (technocyte, gorilla glue, demon core) after being struck by the stray idea that what's lurking in his labs might kill us actually. Brutalism is ugly by design, for practical reasons (concrete is a cheap and effective building material) A rush-job design by a genius that looks completely unorthodox yet functions admirably is a fairly compelling and unique idea for a warframe. Not one I'd have expected to get, but was pleasantly surprised by. I like designs that focus on practicality and have a particular sense of their appearance being related to their functionality, or at least have some logical through-line for why they look weird. Honorable mention to Xaku. The Necralisk/Entrati related warframes all have very neat inspiration behind them. As for the warframes I think are visually unappealing? Khora, Rhino, Voruna, Oberon (prime especially), Hydroid, Inaros, Revenant (Just the helmets really), Styanax, Grendel.

Yes

From the end of mission reward instead of a tau shard or other arcane, yes.

I got one, it dropped from the netracell missions

Here's a useful tip for this farm. There are 3 caves where the room can spawn (for each level of the bounties.) Find it in each one once and throw a loc-pin there. Be sure to label it. Then, whenever you go out into deimos if you see that loc-pin, you know the room is present and what cave it's in. Makes it much easier as you no longer need to actually check each one of the bounties to find it.

I'll go ahead and validate your perspective, when nightwave initially dropped I looked at it, went "This sucks" and quit for 8 series of it. The reason? I saw it as a trojan horse and that rubbed me the wrong way - Alerts only required you to drop in for a single mission for what you want when they occurred. They were missable, but the pool of alerts always reoccurred in a shorter timeframe. Nightwave requires far more complete time engagement. "Finish the whole thing" alongside the sense that these rewards don't reoccur (at least for a way longer timespan) and also "your creds expire at the end of the season, use em or lose em!" (This paragraph is for context, not to argue with you if you hated alerts. The points regarding that are valid and I respect them. Whether we prefer being whipped or doused in cold water is a taste issue and largely semantic.) I don't even mind nightwave that much now when I'm playing, which is testament to the diligent work of Epic game's hired psychologists for coming up with an effective and well proportioned sugar coating for dark pattern abuse, and I guess credit to DE for successfully emulating that formula. If I don't feel the manipulation then it's okay right? (Ps: I know saying that is going to set some of you off, I really don't care to argue this point with other players - It's a moral concern I present at face value. We can discuss it, I can perhaps elaborate and clarify, but I'm not going to jump through hoops to justify this one if you dislike it or take issue. Too depressing to engage with. Thanks 😘) I came back during Angels of the Zariman, and I liked it a lot for many many reasons. adding systems and needling for player retention feels a lot more horrible and shortsighted to me than just adding gameplay content that fits the existing schema of what they already aught to know Warframe players like and engage with. My stance is "stop experimenting on us" (following the market trends of the game industry) to see what we'll take. (because the market trends of the game industry and what they subject players to right now are abhorrent.) It's jarring, and not difficult to notice what's going on. As soon as the weight of abuse ticks higher than fun value, players leave. The evil drive of any evolving live service game is to slowly replace it's audience over time with one which can be more easily abused, and is more desensitized to profiteering at their expense. Envelope push people who care about things out, money dumping zombies in. ("I love FOMO, It's the new extra soft gamer drug all the cool kids are doing. The whiplash from the FO makes me feel totally epic when I don't MO!") Of course, indulging in this rots your game and turns it into something dystopian, cynical, and not worth being proud of. Like any EA title. Profitable? Certainly, but reviled for obvious reasons. The only real meaningful force against this kind of entropy is hoping DE's artistic pride and vision triumphs over their market callousness. Players are just along for the ride until they decide to go. I missed railjack and the lead up to it and it dropping and being wrangled into a playable state. I think any player loss from that is likely the result of it taking a huge chunk of development time, effort, and being a difficult project to the extent focus on it allowed the game's player ecosystem to wither. Fwiw I think the end result is "cool" but also another content island that must be difficult to effectively capitalize on for anything. I consider this permissible enough though, as it didn't sink the company and was more of a "We're making something for our ourselves to prove we can." I wasn't there so I won't tell you to take much stock in my opinion. It's important to highlight the distinction of player dropoff from getting bored, versus dropoff from taking issue. There's not actually a concrete way to isolate this in the statistics. (So I'm inclined to say it's a pain to use in an argument and why I wouldn't bother.) I'm an example of someone who dropped off from taking issue, but I think the "just getting bored" types are the majority. I don't think DE have had any additions that shoot themselves in the foot so hard they've hemorrhaged more players from that versus typical burnout. (Might be wrong, If you're a historian or statistician feel free to confirm/deny this) Primary point I wanted to make through this diatribe: The factors causing player loss mingle together and you probably have to ask the players themselves, en masse, to know for sure what influenced them to go.

I believe back around the time he was announced he went by the internal name vlad or something. There's definitely some clear vampire inspiration. Maybe it's intentional and maybe it isn't, but the fact he uses the spectral theme and vampire theme absolutely makes it reasonable to associate him with our fair pawn and messiah Raziel. Wisp was another frame I saw compared to him, but that's mostly just the facewrap. LoK is great, I'll take any excuse to be reminded of it so thanks. 😌

Got a touch of DID. Not sure it's gonna have particular relevance to this answer here and it's not something I usually share publically, but I'll give what thoughts occur. Warframes are a kind of streamlined ideal - they're hero figures, Idolized and dehumanized in equally distinct ways. Some have distinct clothing, some have simple utilitarian forms. They lack any parts necessitating clothing for modesty so it's all about their visage. Like statues, it's sculpted into them. We could see this as a source of turmoil - Take Excal Umbra as an example, as he was a person warframe-ified against his will, though we know some became the Orokin's warriors by their own will and considered it an honor, voulenteering willingly. (Gara) By those two examples you could imagine Gara would take pride in the adornments she was granted being part of her, and forgo wearing other clothing, considering it undignified and needless when she's been uplifted to her new state by her own choice wheras Umbra might long to don his old dax gear and syandana (but be sadly denied this - or worse, be unable to bear looking at it from the betrayal his masters carried out upon him) I'd say he does have the bestial "I've truly become a monster" leaning where he'd probably feel there's no point wearing clothing now he's non-human. Ultimately, it's going to depend on the context of the artistic endeavour in question. Target audience, Tone, Etc. That one piece of artwork of base Excal in a lumberjack outfit is pretty good, but that's drawing from a place I'd say is much more lackadaisical than my previous examples. How do you envision the personality of the person behind the statue's appearance at face value? There's subtlety there that's fun to think about. I think if they're depicted as frames, I'd say they don't need an outfit. But - you could envision the people those frames once were, and what they were like, and would wear. Basically this becomes more appealing conceptually when you take away the facelessness. Maybe those individuals had fascinating idiosyncrasies versus the frames they became. That's where my curiosity leads. It's a bit of a lore/background context sensitive take, which might not be what you were going for but that's what comes to mind.

To address your points in order OP. 1. Relax dude. Take your time, doublecheck your kit, and you won't have to abandon. If you made a mistake and do have to quit out, take a deep breath and don't let it frustrate you. Happens to everyone. Load times are unavoidable. 2. If you want to make steel essence farming fun you need to find a way to engage with it that isn't just trying to rush through it. Maybe don't play Octavia and do the mind numbing farm strats. Vary your kit and the missions you do. You're getting frustrated with this because of burnout. Give yourself some time away from this grind. 3. Paying plat to avoid having to roll your rivens exists already. You can buy rolls you like from other players. Hence, you can farm plat to do that instead of kuva if you want an alternative. I won't tell you it's much better though. Like the point before if you're getting frustrated by the system just disengage. It's not worth a stomach ulcer. 4. Yeah I don't disagree with this in principle. It's like this to make it harder to farm up your high % weapon or ephemeras though by forcing followthrough. Just beat your lich already and don't create a new one. Maybe get that done instead of farming steel essence. I'm imagining just ringing up the lotus to be like "mommy the bad man is bothering me" and getting a stern "Do not worry Tenno. I will deal with this." voiceline as a response.

Frames: Harrow, Xaku, Garuda, Ivara, Excal, Volt, Revenant, Lavos, Yareli, Protea, Zephyr, Nekros. My abiding love for all of these is roughly equal, so I can't limit it to three without being dishonest. Primaries: Chakkhurr, Vectis, Ferrox Secondaries: Furis (incarnon specifically), Zylok, Gammacor. Melee: Praedos. Syam. Hespar

Thank you for the response. This certainly makes sense as one explanation for what I'm seeing with regards to the attitudes towards this. There's a signifigant amount to unpack in the fear of the nerf bat mentality but I'll forgo commenting on that and just wish everyone affected a speedy recovery. Bless. 😌 Just for the record, I don't like power creep. I'd probably class archon shards as a pretty pure demonstration of needless creep. I'd have been happier if the system had never been implemented and I say this as someone using it regularly. Pandoras box has opened already though so we make do I guess. Will it get nerfed though? Based on the value of current shard buffs being roughly equivalent to maybe 1 and half mod slots in base stats I'm doubtful. Yet looking at the new PH effects? Corrosive stack increasing? Why that's something that was already nerfed out of corrosive naturally. What could this possibly mean? 🤤

Okay fair, you made a reasonable attempt and I overlooked it. Apologies. True, you did. The debate there is whether those benefits are worth more to DE than what they get out of keeping things as they are. I'm inclined to say they aren't. I'll even go so far as to say the onboarding difficulty in the market for new players probably shows a statistical increase in profits by way of how it might bully newbies into buying plat to participate in the markets at all. (Risk of "black platinium" expense being pushed onto players who trade in good faith is probably the easiest example to demonstrate that)

I'd love some mechanic to scale enemy density up further for players in normal mode content or something. Say each point of MR you have up to 10 lets you (optionally, make it a toggle) add 3% more enemy density to every mission. Have this stack with each player. That would make it so 4 players at MR 10 minimum can contribute +120% enemy density if they all opt in, but if you're still a MR 0 and playing solo you see no effect. Call it notoriety or something. It's a challenge curve increase that makes missions harder but more rewarding through drops. I was gonna say have it cap at MR 30 and give 1% per, but I think that would probably lead to high MR becoming too desirable for farming benefits when this should probably be something for everyone. 🤤 Not that it'll happen anyway if it makes farming easier.