SneakyErvin

Pfft. Dont be so insensitive mate. What do you know about the living standards of others. How can you know their parents occupation? Maybe there are some poor fellows and fellases around here that grew up with nerf herding parents in a galaxy far far away, and those parents perished to a nerf heard stampede. On a more serious note regarding the OP's subject. The solution was and is simple, all that is needed is to stop shooting that single lonely enemy and use the AoE for what it is intended, kill masses of mobs per shot. No ammo problems pre- or post- nerf even with the lowest ammo capacity weapons being used.

And all that is also available all the same in SP. Give examples on how it isnt since that is what you try to claim. SC alone results in exactly what you claim is unique to SP, since there is a vast difference between earth and end of the SC planets for instance, or if we look at fissures lith versus axi and so on. So if you enjoy building a specific way for say earth or venus, or maybe mars, then you should be just as upset with Mot, Eris, Sedna, Kuva Fortress and so on. Oh and I must have missed the memo regarding punch through not being effective in SP. Plus even with the most basic modding all of the SC is faceroll. So you do effectively need to go naked or out of your way with a special approch unrelated to your modding to make it feel "engaging". Like making up your own rules like "I'm not allowed to kill mobs that arent CCed", "I'm not allowed to use operator", "I'm not allowed to use defense reductions/strips", "I'm not allowed to use x element" etc. All things just as available in SP. And in SP there is likely a higher chance to allow for such things in a meaningful way if you actually seek "engaging" content. Because it wouldnt really matter if you require yourself to CC, not use operator or ignore strips or a certain element, the mobs on SC will still die instantly from you simply utilizing all mod slots available, it is just as simple as that. And it is what you claim will be the approach i.e not going naked, but using other mods. What made SC engaging when playing through it was the lack of mods i.e being naked or half naked with bare bones weapons. Which is why Jackal was a pita but Kela faceroll. I'm also not sure where you get it from that anyone implied we shouldnt stop at "enough" power. Was my balanced builds comment not a clear indication of that? What I'm saying is that old balanced builds work just as effectively on SP as they did elsewhere, you dont need some overly BiS build to do it comfortably for long hours. And on the SC there is no point downgrading to a more basic mod setup, since you'll end up killing things at the same speed anyways, you simply go from 1/4-shots to ½-shot or 1-shots pretty much since their levels are just that low. Now if we start to actually strip our loadouts of mods, then that surely ends up with a different outcome, but you've already been specific that you do not mean just removing things and leaving slots blank, you are talking about SC specific "builds". But you've still failed to provide a single example of one.

It's an amazing skill with the innate slow, doom spreading and triggering the stored damage on doom. Plus it works similar to seeking talons with its pierce effect. I think the fresh part with Dagath for me was that she felt like a real caster, with a rotation of skills for maximum potential. Her #3 just felt out of place for me since she had great skill synergy between 1, 2 and 4, then her 3 just feels thrown in there. Wouldnt have felt so out of place if it did anything for a full caster build. Could have been something as simple as enemies killed by her horses while debuffed with doom gives her x% chance to spawn an energy or health or, or a universal orb or something aslong as her 3 is active. Since that would also sync with her passive and so on.

This is one of those long overdue things that really needs to be changed in the game. Headshot should be changed to weakpoint hit. Then if DE doesnt want us to get bonus damage modifiers versus certain enemy weakpoints they can alter those individually. Atleast all weakpoints would at that point (no pun intended) reward aim by triggering current "on headshot" and "on headshot kill" parameters, like knell, dual toxocyst, incarnons etc. And yeah, adding some form of weakpoint highlight to enemies would be a good idea, even if it is a player decision flipped on and off through an option toggle. I think this should also be added to Banshee and Helios, so highlighted "weakpoints" should trigger "on headshot (kill)" parameters.

With Citrine and Voruna, did you account for the potential of getting BPs while you farm for the currency? Like with the 352 mins on SP for Citrine, is that an avarage based on getting some BPs while obtaining currency to buy the rest or is it only based on farming the currency and buying all BPs with it?

Examples, that is all I ask. And what you describe here is what I'm saying, that you (and others) ignore progress. You are effectively downgrading yourself, since even for the SC we've gotten gear rewards far beyond it. So it is not a "problem" tied to SP since it has always been there the moment something higher comes along that incentivices us to use the progress handed to us previously. Every single new mode that isnt just a re-hash of SC does this. CC was dead when I joined the game 6+ years ago and the most basic modding trivialized the SC aswell. And you keep saying carelessly unbalanced enemies in SP, where and how? Yet nothing actually changed with SP since what worked in arbitrations worked in SP aswell. So why is SP the issue of focus for you? Like I said I use the same builds now that I used prior to SP releasing, and prior to Arbis and liches aswell. The minor difference are the items added post-SP, which are now part of those builds, but those builds already handled SP even though they werent built for SP but for the rest of the game already. So how exactly has SP changed anything to make you host such animosity towards it? No, and you arent reading what is written. As I've said, just right above here most recently. I use the same builds in SP that were available long before it was added. Those that cannot utilize a variety of builds in SP are limited by not having the items to allow them to do so, and are likely hitting up SP way too early. However, again, it would help alot to see where you are coming from if you gave some concrete examples of builds that suddenly do not work in SP, builds that actually use things that we used for years on the SC. There is nothing in the game that incentivices us to use lower versions of items when we get higher ones just in order to jump into lower content again to farm something we've missed. Your claim is that we sacrifice things by making "SP builds" but we dont, since the idea of using the best items have always been the idea no matter if low content is frequently visited or not. It is the core of these games, making farming as efficient as possible, since that is our right due to having farmed the items that enables us to do the most efficient farming in lower content when we need to revisit it. It's also hilarious that you try to downplay people by saying things like you imagine their early days were filled with confusion since the game asks us to go to high and low level content constantly. Are you seriously under some imagination that WF is unique in this sense? Never played an MMO? Diablo games? Borderlands? Or any other similar game that constantly sends you to content that is trivial in order to get something specific. Do you really think people sitting at GRift 100 farming are going to swap over to a new build just because they need to go do some T13 NRifts for new keys or some T13 bounties for some upgrade materials? And what is wrong with people treating SP as the place to be? You even say we are supposed to get the most out of what we earn, doesnt that also imply we should earn the most we can when we try to earn? Which would be SP since it has always been more rewarding from day 1. Meaning I get more out of what I've earned by doing SP, especially if I'm trying to farm rare materials like Morphics, Argon or similar. I still need to jump all over to earn what I'm actually after. I cant sit at Paulus and hope for Argon and I cant sit at Mot and hope for Morphics. And if I want a better more targeted yield of relics I will likely hit up a disruption isntead of a survival no matter if that is done on SP or SC. Then if I do head to Disruption, the build would still be about the same role, single target killing in the most efficient way. So if I have a TTK at 5 sec per demo on SP and use other items to achieve the same on SC the two will end up with the same exact gameplay. So why would I downgrade to do SC at the same speed as SP while also getting less loot overall? When SP not only results in the same amount of relics but also gives me room to use all the goodies I've farmed over the years without worries to trivialize it too much. Plus it might actually give me a chance and reason to pop into operator, either due to getting downed or to feel a need to strip demo armor. More systems used that would have no point on SC.

Oh gods lol!! Kullervo is really in some Finnish hell. Stabbed by knives, many knives. We all know fins love to use knives to stab others but dont really enjoy getting stabbed, much less stabbed several times over as opposed to stabbing someone else several times over. We all also know fins love to drink hard drinks and enjoy what comes from drinking those hard drinks. Kullervo cannot drink properly and he cant keep the drinks down when he eventually manages to drink. Kullervo, the new and highly advanced shower head or sprinkler system. Spreads water and death to equal effect.

I've yet to bump into something that her skills wont destroy completely. And hmm which skill did you replace with Wrathful? Since the only skill I can see myself ever replacing on her is her #3, since the other three skills just sync too much with eachother.

Dagath can also rely on extremely high armor and HP. You just have to build her differently. It would also help if you specify what you deem as higher levels, since both are near indestructible without any gate for an hour or two in SP or well Netracell levels. If you play Dagath as the high damage caster she is, her third skill is a complete waste since you will likely not touch your weapons. So you can slot Fractured Blast on her and combine it with Health Conversion and Arcane Blessing. This ends up giving her more than enough armor to work with, and with an auger mod on either her or her secondary, or brief respite, she'll have all the gate she needs due to her constant casting. To top it off I used an armor shard or two on her as fillers since there was nothing else she needed at that point from shards. You dont need much more strength on Dagath since the skill that really requires strength already hits several times which results in full strip.

You keep saying how different it can be but you give absolutely no concrete examples of what is different. All weapon types work on SC, they all also work in SP. The difference is you pick weapon A instead of weapon B for SP due to power. A Dual Sword will still play exactly the same in both cases, they'll just have different names and stats. And the same goes for every gun with a similar trigger and damage dealing mechanic. Frames are also limited to 4 skills, meaning the difference between SC and SP for them is minimal. Some frames do get impacted as the levels increase, but that impact was there long before SP, where the frame turns from a map wiper to a CC. To your question. Yes, obviously. That is simply standard game progression, you build for the highest content available and practically use it everywhere unless you specifically want to gimp yourself for some reason. Though I have a hard time to find a reason why you'd hit up level 40 content with your level 100 build when in most cases there is a level 100+ version of the level 40 mission available. No, no holes. Actually I have no idea where you got that idea from when I was using your own example regarding CC and gun damage. And yes, if there isnt a threat using CC is quite pointless. The whole reason with CC is to remove threats. All you do by downgrading so you can use CC in lower content (even though pointless) is going through hoops, instead of just jumping into higher content where you can already use those things without downgrading. How does your gameplay alter? What magical modding is it you utilize in lower content to make it vastly different (or different at all) in gameplay to that of SP with full bells and whistles? Lets just look at Loki as an example. He utilizes mods obtained from old Star Chart content, he uses this in SP aswell. So what exactly changes with a "Star Chart build" for him? Or do you claim that corrupted mods and maximized range is not a "Star Chart build" even though all items used in the frame build are obtained through the Star Chart? Is there some rule that says SC should be cleared slower? Or Vauban, where the same build for SC is used in SP, since well his kit simply works that way. What is there to replace to make SC play differently? Range? Duration? Efficiency? Health? Strength? What mod would replace one of those options to make a gameplay difference? Kullervo is another. You might replace his weapon and dump his strength, but his skills will still result in you gaining enough damage to do exatly the same he does in SP with the same skills involved. Reduce efficiency maybe? Well... why? Using your skills less often makes him play differently how exactly? You shoot gun or attack with normal melee when you cant telestab things, you just end up shooting or meleeing regularly more. Protea. Sure lets say you reduce your duration. Oh you need to cast your turret skill slightly more often? Big gameplay change while her skill still scales enough to kill SC and arbitrations etc. Ash. Lets dump everything on him. Oh wait, his 3 and 4 will still insta kill SC content. I guess you can skip his augment too so you need to manually execute finishers after a teleport. But... that can already be done on SP if you are simply into self torture and clunkyness... And this goes on for practically every frame on the list. There isnt enough modding or skills to alter the gameplay to a point where it is different between SC and SP (or other high content). I also dont see the problem you have with SP since the "problem" you see with it has been part of the game with every single new higher level piece of content. And when you act this way towards SP it is odd you dont act the same towards Archons and Cells. Why is it so?

Yeah Panzer will likely still be of high use since it is just too reliable as a healing tool with Hunter Recovery and Quills combined, plus they can access tenacious bond. Plus they still count as alive in larva form, so even if they go down you have access to bond mod buffs. Hounds sure are great but they cant heal you or buff your crit damage.

By the way. I saw you considered replacing Umbra Fiber for something else. I'd suggest replacing Augur Secrets in that case since it you replace Fiber you dont only give up armor, but you give up HP aswell as strength near equal to Augur Secrets. So better to dump Secrets and then either swap Steel Charge for Brief Respite or slap an augur mod (or 2) on your secondary (which you likely dont use eitherway heh).

I'll just settle with answering this sections since all you do is really talk in circles. None of what you describe gets removed in SP. You willingly downgrade for other content, but you arent actually sacrificing anything. You skipping damage doesnt actually alter your build, you bringing peculiars doesnt actually alter your build, since they do nothing out of a gameplay perspective, they arent tied to progress and so on. That you earlier also state that builds start happening the moment you start modding is just uhm wrong. It's like saying you have a level 10 build in a game like Diablo or something, which you uhm dont have. Builds come into the picture when they actually matter, when there is a meaningful impact of your choice. There is nothing like that when you "build" for lower levels, all you do is make the low level feel like the high level if you downgrade enough and there is little point to it when you can do everything in the higher version, as you can in SP compared to SC. You also keep burping out the misconceptions of SP. Now you claim things like slash and armor stripping is a must. You also claim single target versus AoE will be impacted in terms of effectiveness due to SP modifiers. Neither are true claims. You can go for hours in SP without ever touching slash or stripping effects, I did so for a very long time while still keeping the KPM high, and still do so on most frames I play. And single target vs AoE applies to the whole game when it comes to effectiveness, since we never face single mobs so AoE will always be more efficient. It isnt some SP related thing. Arbitration puts even higher focus on AoE in order to handle drones most effectively since they are mostly blocked by invulnerable enemies. edit: I gotta say that DE made the oddest choice with drones, they should have been designed as pure single target enemies. Plus, none of what you mention actually changes gameplay. Adding a bunch of pointless mods and going low enough in level will still make the gun feel exactly the same as it would with proper mods in higher content. And like you mentioned regarding a gun that renders CC moot, so you want to remove damage mods so you can CC. Well you just made low level content the same as SP then, so why do you run regular content that is the same as the higher content that allows you both to use the mods you've gathered and the CC of the frame/weapon you use? You end up with the exact same gameplay in both cases, where the lower level mission actually requires you to sacrifice something to be able to play a certain way. The CC itself is also less useful since there are way fewer mobs that also hit for far far less. So SP in that case would further enable your playstyle of choice. So using mods designed by DE to be used was using builds the game was not designed around? Grade-A logic there. Also, you have no idea how I built. Or are you saying that building for efficiency and duration since I like using abilities and not having to recast buffs too often is not an intended design by DE? But I guess you assumed that I'm an overboard strength user or something, one of those that keep increasing damage even if there is no way to ½-shot something etc. I tried some of those builds on Rhino and Chroma for instance, but in the end they are utterly pointless, even in SP etc. I think I have maybe 3 frames at the moment that go beyond +100% in their builds. I've also never relied on shield gate abuse, I've always prefered hp+armor frames, never really built those into absurdity either. So SP doesnt impose any sacrifice or limitations really, since the builds I use personally are pretty much just middle of the pack balanced. And there is nothing in those builds I could remove to make them behave differently, since the things removed would simply just remove power while the builds still play the same in SC as they do in SP. The only frames and builds I wont take to SP are the ones I do not enjoy, but then again, that applies just the same to SC and everything else in the game. You will for instance never see me touch Yareli, not even with a 10 foot pole. Or do you think something like a massively ranged Loki is somehow not an appropriate build on the SC? You dont like to have things that improves the speed of the missions? Well good news for you then, you can have horrible builds in SP aswell to make things go as slow as they possibly can!

Atlas and Kullervo are probably two of the most satisfying frames atm when it comes to wrecking things in melee. Ceramic Dagger for Atlas is really nice since it has low maintenance and can reach 10x initial combo with a Riven and the new aura along with its incarnon perks. (Sancti) Magistar is OK on Atlas but requires actual upkeep and cant reach 10x initial combo, and the initial combo gained from Magistar is also locked behind the incarnon form being active, while on Ceramic Dagger all you need to do is kill 100 enemies with your primary and then it is all passive without ever having to interact with the incarnon form.

All of what you say can be linked back to what I said, that it is a misconception by those that dont really care about progress and just want new stuff anyway. In addition to that, everything you mention can be applied to any new content of higher level, I even lined up several in the previous post, including Star Chart content. So there has always been a place where a better build (or an actual build) has a meaning, and where a "build" you might enjoy elsewhere isnt the least viable. SP hasnt changed any of that, it is just a new place of a higher level. There is no real gameplay difference, since if you like a certain type of gameplay and build for that, all you do if you "build" for lower levels is use different items that play the same. Like AoE? You might use a worse AoE weapon that practically plays the exact same as a better one. Like Assault Rifles? The difference is you likely use a worse one that still results in the same gameplay experience. And it repeats like that for practically any weapon class, it really only comes down to power, which isnt a gameplay difference. The same also applies to frames. Heck most of my frames are built the exact same way as they were long before SP was every introduced. They practically have the same builds now as those they got when I obtained "all" modding options. The few things that have changed is that some of those mods have gotten upgraded, or some have been replaced for a similar effect. Things that would have changed in those build with or without SP as part of the game. So there has been no sacrifice demanded by SP, I've simply used the progress that the game has given me long before that. It would also be nice if you answered the simple question I asked regarding this. What builds do you refer to that differ a great deal between SC and SP? You dont really need optimal builds. Just a balanced build that can be done by using mods that have been available for years really. It used to be very limiting when it first released, when there was such a heavy focus on KPM to get any worthwhile amount of Steel Essence. But since acolytes got introduced you can do it with practically anything. Heck most of my SP runs were done with Silva & Aegis Prime after acolytes were added.

SP doesnt change the viability of the baseline though. We've had other modes prior to SP that already made certain baseline items (with mods included even) obsolete. Arbitrations practically set the bar for good and bad gear and the good gear viable in arbitrations is viable in SP. Then we have liches and sisters too. All limiting what you can bring to be effective. Not to mention that at some point we also got Disruption, which even at SC levels really showed which weapons and modding worked or not. As to your last point, both Archons and Netracells practically have SP scaling. While SP is set to +150% at all times, Archons and Cells start at +100% (no armor bonus) and scale with a further +50% per squad member. In addition to that they also apply several other limitations not present in SP, like far more limited gear use (no specters, 3 minute CD on consumables etc), a 1-life restriction and so on. Eximus units are also more common in the two modes. Ontop of that Netracells levels equal those of 1h+ in endless SP. And since enemy damage isnt modified by SP, but depends on enemy level and mob types, both Archons and Cells would pose a higher threat since their levels are for the most part higher and while throwing more eximus units at you. Meaning that if you run a squishy frame on SC and SP otherwise, bringing them to Archons or Cells may not be as appealing since the incoming damage is overall higher and you are only given a single life. So I dont really understand your gripe with SP when we have mandatory modes that are already more limiting to how you can build. And that we've had far more limiting modes in the past prior to SP makes it even harder to understand your gripe with SP.

Atleast you can play a beautiful ballerina of death with 2h Nikanas and Kullervo. And with that I just gave myself an urge for some Ballerina cookies. Sad part is... no cookies around and I'm too lazy to go to the store. 😕

But why should you be modless? You are practically proving my point that some people dont care to progress but want everything eitherway. The tools are there, you can in practice pick whatever you want and beat SP aslong as you build properly i.e actually building and not just slapping things together without thought. You arent sacrificing anything in that process since the thing you use wont get worse at dealing with lower content and the playstyle wont really change either. If a gun spits death in low content with a random setup of mods it will spit death in the same fashion in SP with proper modding. You will very likely not feel any gameplay change by skipping crap mod X for BiS mod Y since the weapon will handle the same and just deal more effective damage. I think I said a while back in a discussion that you dont need to specifically build anything to handle star chart, so there are no "star chart builds" for instance. That doesnt translate to use suddenly having to sacrifice something to do SP, just that we actually need to make builds as opposed to an "anything goes" approach. I've played SP with the most fragile frames and the most durable, it works no matter which I pick aslong as I've actually invested myself in how I build them, and I've never had to alter my playstyle with them to cater to SP. Most weapons work aswell, but I wouldnt go with a MK1 Braton when I have a Braton Prime if I wanna use a Braton. And if a person isnt interested in building, it shouldnt matter to them if unique rewards are locked behind SP anyways, since they likely wont use the items after they obtain them eitherway, since building is obviously not their cup of tea. The balance and varitey is in SP just the same as the rest of the game. Not even SP matches our power for that matter. It isnt about proving something either, it is simply about making use of the items we've gathered earlier in the game. The only thing SP does is require us to use better mods than needed on the SC for most part, but mods dont alter a playstyle exactly, since it just result in more power to an exsisting playstyle determined by the frame and weapon of choice. So you "sacrifice" lower power to gain higher power while the playstyle is intact. And the boss mechanics connected to SP (60) would have been the same if it was accessible elsewhere and the difficulty all the same, so being pissed it is SP specific is a little strange. The difference would have just been that you'd jump from normal, bounty or SP to the SP60 difficulty when enough eyes were gathered. Would that piss you off less since it is accessible from non-SP aswell? I'm just curious what builds you refer to that you cannot take into SP, builds that alter your gameplay to a noticable degree between "SC builds" and "SP builds". And what you have to sacrifice in that SC specific gameplay setup. edit: I forgot to ask this in relation to the SP60 boss. Since you are pissed at that, are you also pissed at Archons in general? Since they are bosses only available through a specific higher level mode, although not SP but still SP scaled.

Hmmm. Must test Edun tomorrow when I can grab another Melee Arcane Adapter. Sounds interesting since I already love melee influence.

That isnt the issue since camera shake is already disabled. This is about the camera turning on its own with those specific weapons when triggered with Wrathful Advance. Both turn the camera automatically and Nikanas makes the camera end up facing towards the ground when the finisher is done. Meaning it gets really wonky with weapons like Syam and the Agendus. Have tried getting rid of it by disabling some of the melee camera/target functions but none of them do anything.

But none of this is really true and mostly misconceptions of players, or simply players that dont want to progress while still wanting all the loot available. We dont need to sacrifice anything for SP and we arent really shoehorned into a few builds to farm it efficiently. It isnt really the game that implies it either, it's negative players that spread misinformation. SP overall can be pushed far if we look at endless, the only game mode that gets harder and harder, and it doesnt require any specific setup to push acceptably far for it to be efficient. This can be done without any real issue with both shield based frames and HP tanks, and a multitude of weapons. Sure if someone wants to just use the S#&$ties of S#&$e available to them, then yeah they likely wont do much in SP. But then again, why should the rest of the players be stopped by someone that doesnt really care anyways regarding what items they use? Large parts of the community lack a serious understanding of building properly or making a working loadout. It's easy to spot this when jumping into public, more notably in higher content like archon hunts. People investing in pointless amounts of power strength that will never give any value to the content they are currently in, while sacrificing survival in return and go down quicker than a slut on promnight. This has been an issue ever since the plague that was the "endless" guides pre-shield gate. Where people followed a guide intended for endless so deep that you would always get 1HKed, so building for any survival stat was pointless. But at the same time they didnt play that deep endless with the build, so only lowered their own TTL in the content they ran for absolutely no reason. Which also was a large part of the massive "I get 1-shot!" outcries.

Some yes, more so on Kullervo due to the HA animation of some weapons in combination with Wrathful Advance. Sword+Shield and Nikanas for instance, where the camera wobbles around massively when pulling of their HA with Wrathful Advance. Otherwise weapons I tend to skip past due to animations would be Scythes, Ghoulsaw and 2h Nikanas (unless I play Kullervo and only use the HA on them). There are however plenty of stances I skip due to their animations.

Not really. But my brain does suffer slight OCD from it since the skin doesnt transfer over to incarnon. So if I equip a solstice skin for instance my brain goes "nuh hu!" since when incarnon activates it is no longer the same gun because the solstice pattern disappears while in reality that part of the gun doesnt actually change in the incarnon transformation, since you can see that it doesnt if you use the basic intended skin. And if I equip a completely different skin my brain likely wants to murder me. It refused to talk to me for about a week after I slapped the 2x barrel shotgun skin on Laetum. Overreact much!? So for now I dont use anything but the basic skins.

It reminds me so much of Borknagar or Vintersorg and similar blacked cosmic nature viking metal bands. Ris Vom Khra also reminds me of someone having some bad rice pudding (risgrynsgröt) during christmas and trying to tell you that before vom(e)ting to the sound of "khra!" all over the place. But after that all is fine, since the tummy is empty and void again.

I just got shived by the server goblin again.