Birdframe_Prime

I'm not conflating it. You're missing my point. The point being that DE don't give a hoot about this feedback. Never have. In fact, they have answered in-person questions at conventions and panels that when an Augment comes out, that is their solution to the problem. When an Augment comes out to 'fix' a problem, they don't want to hear feedback about it being the wrong choice. They will not go back and undo it. They will not go back and do a deep-dive to fix the problem with whatever frame it was and remove the Augment. The reworking of a function that an Augment provided into the base Warframe has happened twice now. Once on Hydroid and once on Inaros. You are aware of how long it was before that happened, right? DE literally do not care, and will not listen to, feedback that says 'I didn't want an Augment, I wanted you to fix it instead.' Which was the point of my comment. No matter how annoying you find the Augment. No matter what the Augment actually does. No matter whether it's a bug in the frame or a fundamental flaw of the frame itself. No matter that the function should have been a base part of the kit in the first place. They. Don't. Care. And will not change this decision based on Forum feedback.

Old topic is old. DE says no. DE consistently says no. DE stated, a long time ago, and has re-iterated it since, that it doesn't matter if it's Prime or not, if a player walks into the mission with the same mods on the Warframe and casts the same ability, it has the same effect. Regardless if it's a Prime or not. Why? Because it makes creating, balancing and then updating the Abilities simpler for DE. They aren't going to do the extra work.

So, I do agree with you on a couple of points. I don't think Ember is in the worst place currently, but I'm never going to say no to a good improvement. I had a thought, though, when reading through your points on Immolation. See if you follow my train of thought; Thought the first; Immolation doesn't do its actual job until you reach full meter. This is an objectively bad thought, right? Pablo and other designers of frames know that the only time you shouldn't get the function of the ability you press is when that ability is conditional on something else outside of the frame, like an enemy being there, or taking damage. An ability should do something first, or just be active until the specific thing happens that makes it actually take effect. So this led me to thought the second; If Immolation just gave us the flat defense buff, affected by Strength, the entire time, what would the Immolation meter do? Obviously getting to max Heat would give us the full strip on Fire Blast, but what if it was... more? Obviously the extreme Drain is difficult to maintain, but what if it was warranted? What if managing your Heat up and down actually had a specific function we could play around? Thought the third; What if, as long as the full Immolation meter was draining our energy, every other cast was both stronger and cost no additional Energy? This would require us having a different way to manage the meter up and down, because we couldn't keep losing that just to get our armour strip on her 3, maybe we could have a 'vent' function based on holding 2 and reducing the Heat back down? Maybe this could do something, too, where we 'vent' heat and it does something else to our abilities. So... What we get is something that a lot of players don't like, which is 'synergy' between Abilities. But I hope this can be the good kind. The good kind like Xaku, who can stop his own Ability Duration Timers while his 4 is active. Let's try this as a rework suggestion: Passive: Unchanged. 1. Fireball: Tap to cast a fireball at enemies. This explodes in a radius and can be cast multiple times in quick succession to increase the damage and area of effect. Hold to cast a blaze on an area, a floating ball of fire that inflicts damage over time and consistent Heat procs to all enemies in range for its entire duration. If cast while the chained combo of Fireball is active, the damage and radius of the blaze is increased in the same way. Synergy: While Total Immolation is active, costs 0 energy to cast and gains damage based on how many Heat Status effects are on a target (limited to 10x). 2. Immolation: Ember ignites herself in a fiery aura that increases her resistance to damage, this is 90% at max rank, unaffected by mods. Casting other abilities while Immolation is active will build the Heat meter. At full Heat Ember receives the Total Immolation buff and begins draining energy rapidly. This energy drain will increase over time for every Ability cast while active. While Total Immolation is active, however, Ember's other abilities cost 0 energy. Hold the Ability to Vent Heat from Immolation and remove the energy drain. For every point of Heat vented from the meter, Ember gains the Afterburn affect, which increases the damage from Heat Status effects (including any that are currently active) in equal proportion for 20 seconds, both damage increase and duration are affected by mods. Afterburn effect will end if Ember reaches Total Immolation before the Duration is done. 3. Fire Blast: Ember unleashes an expanding wave of heat that removes armour from enemies in direct proportion to the Immolation meter, starting at 50% and building to 100%, this is unaffected by strength. Fire Blast guarantees a Heat Status effect on all enemies it hits. Synergy: While Total Immolation is active, costs 0 energy to cast and enemies touched by the wave take 10 Heat Status effects instead of 1. 4. Inferno: Re-skin this as the pillars of fire, I genuinely don't care about the targeting, as it only costs energy for enemies it does hit, meaning a recast in another direction isn't all that problematic. Otherwise basically unchanged barring the new synergy. Synergy: While Total Immolation is active, costs 0 energy to cast and flame aura on enemies has 2x range. Flame Aura gains damage based on how many Heat Status effects are on the target (limited to 10x). ...... So then... What we have here is a kit that encourages both building up her 2 and spamming all her abilities, but then also cooling down her 2 and exploiting the duration buff to the effects she's just caused with her ability spam. You've got meaningful synergy in Fire Blast, because the Total Immolation will ping 10 stacks of Heat onto enemies, then her Fireball and Inferno will deal their maximum damage against enemies. You've got a good setup ability in Fireball now, in that you can cast, cast, cast, hold-cast to create a defense area that has a wide range and will proc Heat consistently to build up her Passive before you cast her other abilities. And Immolation's DR is now just flat, similar to Nezha and Yareli. On top of that you've got two distinct play styles to mod around. You can either mod to have a lot of time spent spamming her abilities for free, building up that Energy Drain per cast, or you can build to exploit her Afterburn function where you can be your own built-in Bane mod to insane degrees. Multiplying the damage from a Heat Status so that it will deal multiple times the damage it would deal from a simple Bane, and it applies after modding so weapon-based Status procs will benefit from the Heat mods on the weapon before they benefit from the multiplication from Ember. Ember's inter-ability synergy goes up in the right kind of way, and we get an Ember that can spam away until she's too tired, then vent to nuke what's left, while rebuilding to Total Immolation again. What do you think?

I'm not sure why you're quoting me on this one... Because my point was that DE don't care. They literally do not care about this kind of feedback, and have actually said so when some questions were raised about other augments before. If there is a problem with something that they have 'fixed' with a band-aid augment, they don't want to hear about how they shouldn't have done that. They won't change that the augment exists, and they won't then go into a deep dive on the frame to remove the need for the augment. Yes it's unfair, yes it's an objectively bad move on their part. We just have to lump it. Because we certainly don't like it.

And? So? Doesn't change the point.

I find it unfair that Hildryn has to run an AUGMENT in the place of any other useful mod to be able to take effect in Infested missions. I find it unfair that Harrow has to run an AUGMENT just so that allies killing enemies he chained up triggers his ability effects instead of him having to fight for kills against his team. I find it unfair that Nova and Rhino have to run an AUGMENT just to dispel their defensive casts, or run an AUGMENT to maintain them instead. I find it unfair that Nekros works better as an entire Warframe if you run AUGMENTS on at least three of his abilities. I find it unfair that Frost has to run an AUGMENT just to have his 2 become relevant. And yet... This is a thing. DE aren't going to change. None of these threads have changed their mind in the past, and they never will in the future. Unfair? Yeah, we agree. As good as they're going to give us? Sadly, yeah.

It is. You wanna know why? I'll tell you anyway ^^ It's kind of sad. DE not putting in that effort has directly caused the bad opinion on Yareli that people have. And from that point on, fixing Yareli has become largely impossible for DE because they didn't lay the groundwork on K-Drive in the first place. But hey, live and learn (as the Sonic soundtrack said), maybe later DE will get so bored that somebody wants to add in real K-Drive racing and then... maybe then... we'll have the update to Merulina that we really deserve.

Yeah, not wrong. However. Augmented it becomes an invincibility tool and it's incredibly good at helping him survive literally anything. With it you can, as I found out to my bewildered glee, Helminth off his Invisibility for a defense strip like Terrify, and turn Loki into the weirdest melee tank. He Decoys enemies, Disarms them, then strips off Armour while they're all grouped up and wails on them with melee, and if there's even a sniff of enemies looking in your direction you can Switch with them to get 6-7 seconds of full invincibility. A Loki that doesn't go invisible is... strange and exciting new territory ^^ Still. Switch Teleport should definitely be able to do something like... turn off the enemy friend-or-foe targeting on that one enemy. Maybe temporarily Irradiate them so that as you escape from a location the enemies that were attacking you keep attacking that enemy. Maybe it could even give that enemy a damage vulnerability too.

This keeps coming up, but I don't think that anyone actually realises why DE don't do this... See, Platinum is something you purchase in advance. Or somebody already purchased in advance and you traded it off them. Somebody, probably you, already paid the money for it. Right? So how does DE actually make any more money from players when there's already a pool of Platinum sitting in the game and being traded around by players? That's right. They make the Cosmetic market able to drain that pool as quickly as possible. So, for every single person that didn't realise that a cosmetic was exclusive to a bundle, they want them to pay the full price for the bundle to get it. For every person that doesn't have enough Platinum for themselves, they want that player to trade Platinum away from players that have it. Drain the pool with non-refundable and non-tradeable items. That's how you get the players that actually will pay for Platinum to go back and pay for it again sooner. They have to walk a fine line between 'that's too expensive' and 'but I really, really like how it looks', but is that really so hard to do? Eleven years of doing it says: They do it really well. So that's why DE will almost certainly (I'm 99.99% certain) never discount bundles if you already own stuff in them. (That and you can't actually gift somebody a bundle if they already own items in that bundle, that's another bit of evidence there too.) DE want all the plat frittered away so that paying players go back to the well to pay for more. That's how they make money.

That's a surprise, to me... I would have thought that the bit that told you DE was giving up on Yareli was the Game Awards interview last year. When they confirmed that they had absolutely no intention of ever letting Helminth Abilities work on Merulina. Now, I happen to know why they won't be doing this, and why they didn't in the first place, and I think it's a valid reason. But the confirmation of it was what made me give up on DE ever actually fixing anything about Merulina.

I'm playing Devil's Advocate, I can call my own argument out for being pointless, especially when it's doing the exact task of pointing out a pointless argument. Yes, the first step. Where's step two through twelve? Look... This is getting actually silly. No matter how much you nit-pick my responses, you literally do not have any reason for DE to actually listen to you other then 'Well, would be a lot cooler if you did...' And that's the follow up that you actually need. The lack of it is what I'm pointing out. I do, in fact, not care if Gauss gets faster or not, it doesn't matter to me. What does matter to me is getting people to actually back up their opinions and wants with valid reasons. It's the specific thing that distinguishes any request from a simple childish demand ^^ If you can't convince a random guy on the Forums who doesn't actually care either way, and is completely open to an objective and reasoned argument, then how do you convince DE?

You'd be surprised, at least so it seems. Loki is, despite all of the strange amounts of hate he's getting, surprisingly good. The reason he gets so much hate is mostly because of the things that DE basically fixed. The first was that his Decoy, which is literally the best aggro draw in the game (to the point of actually pulling enemies away from things like Defense points), just straight up and died past level 15 unless you put it somewhere the enemies couldn't shoot. And... well... they fixed that. And even Augmented it so you can apply it to an enemy instead. What this does is creates a CC that can affect even Overguard enemies, because the Overguard doesn't make them immune to Aggro. Invisibility is... well... combined with Shield Gating to prevent accidental death... literally the best self survivability tool in the game outside of being functionally invincible. And the second thing DE fixed was Switch Teleport being just a meme that was only used to be 'hilarious' to your allies, but now that it's not just a functional teleport as long as you have a target, it also grants a speed boost. As if to compensate entirely for the time it spent rooting you to the ground with the animation all these years. Then there's his 4th which turns off all enemy ranged damage. All guns, apart from those on Eximus units, just gone... No bombard rockets, no lancers pinging you at long range, no heavy gunners revving up? No, all of them just bum-rushing to your Decoy in melee mode only. It's... kind of beautiful to watch now if you get him in somewhere like The Circuit. A bunch of idiots waving their melee weapons and charging something other than the defense point. Does this make Loki absolutely amazing? No. Far from it. He's still niche as a frame in Warframe. And nuke frames exist, it's true. Is he a bad frame, though? Definitely not.

None of it's a valid argument, if you refer back to my original point: There is literally no need for him to be faster than he is, even when you just say 'the option' or 'for fun'. This is because the former is Dev work and latter is subjective and other people would find it less fun and like their build to have the exact effect it currently does. In any case, Gauss doesn't specialise in speed. Gauss specialises in charging and discharging a Battery for various effects on himself and others. Lore, sure, but in Lore Atlas punched an entire asteroid base into pieces and he notably does not do that in game. None of the frames specialise in speed. Not even Volt, who has a literal Ability called Speed. Rhino's theme is not being the epitome of strong armour. Rhino is the 'heaviest' frame, which is why his passive is Heavy Impact, and his 4 is him stomping so hard that he warps time. His specialisation is in Iron Skin, yes, and you can not only spec into that, you can Augment three of his casts to truly specialise into it. Exactly, and you unfortunately haven't validated it. You've expressed it, and when all you're doing is expressing your opinion, then a single person (yes, me) playing Devil's Advocate can nullify that by arguing for opinion that they shouldn't - or even just don't need to - do what you're suggesting. This is because, much like fun, opinions are only worth the exact same as another person's, and they can cancel out.

No, it really isn't. If pointing out that changes you want the Devs to make to the game involve Dev time and Dev testing is somehow, magically, off topic to any discussion of changes that you want to make in Warframe, then you're misunderstanding the point of 'feedback to the Developers'. And again, you're trying to read the mode of travel into 'who gets there faster'. Teleporting gets there faster than running. This kind of word definition is like the difference between a kilo of feathers and a kilo of lead. They're the same weight, but very different substances. What we're talking about is 'going faster', whether that's teleporting or running there, 'going faster' is the discussion. Do you see the pointlessness of trying to split hairs on whether one is running or teleporting in the context of the task?

You're from the old Forums where they didn't sign you up until you logged into the website, like me, mine is from the even older Forums and is a couple of weeks out. New Forums does have account creation simultaneous with the game account creation, especially after Cross Save, where they can now tie that all in. (As far as I'm aware.)

I've been playing for 10 years, nearly. And I've seen the 75% discount maybe once per year. There are some unconfirmed tricks to getting one, but I don't recommend them because they all begin with 'Step 1. Stop playing the game for a month.' Also... Wait a minute... Forum Accounts are created when you sign up to Warframe. Your account signed up on Sunday 24th, so... 20 days? Your account has existed for 4.

The roles are absolutely fine. DE has just taken the wrong direction with the enemies and objectives that counter Ability spam, because those counters all hurt CC disproportionately too much when compared to how much they hurt DPS. What we need is to have the DPS abilities curtailed harder by the things that are supposed to counter them, while the CC abilities are then the things that help the DPS abilities have a little more time to do their thing. Example: Nullifier bubbles take damage from... a lot of DPS abilities, and not others, incredibly inconsistently, but will hard-stop every CC ability if they even so much as brush the thing. Limbo's 4 literally cannot be run at high range on any Corpus map, because a Nullifier will spawn, somewhere out of sight, and touch the edge of it to pop it entirely and prevent you casting it in that same spot until there are no more Nullifiers in that area. Example: Overguard units take damage from almost all DPS abilities, but will negate all but basic Slow functions from CC abilities and decoy effects from Irradiated enemies around them. Basically, for enemies with Overguard, you might as well bring a secondary Primer with Cold and Radiation on it to slow everything and distract it, rather than rely on a CC ability. And we need to have objectives in the game that are not directly hampered by CC functions, too. We've all seen how a Slow Nova on Defense can just... ruin everyone's experience of getting through it fast. Meanwhile having a CC on something like Disruption can actively harm your progress as Demolyst units actively take less damage if you have them CC'd. I'm not saying to completely change Defense, but look at Mobile Defense as a concept; in that you can take CC because the only thing you're doing is running down the clock on the defense objective, you're not forced to kill everything and can approach it however you actually want to. Imagine if, instead of a Nullifier or Demolyst simply running up to Limbo's Cataclysm, just meant that they passed inside without any hindrance. The Nullifiers had to have their bubbles popped, and then everything they're protecting is in the Rift too. The Demolysts could not be paused by his time stop, but they are in the Rift without taking down the bubble so Limbo can get his damage boost from Rift Torrent on them. DE have just... gotten too far out there trying to put in things that can actively try and make our Abilities not always the first thing we go to for nuking things, and actually try to make us use weapons, Abilities and all our auxiliary functions together. They need to take a step back, and change out what they're actually targeting. Instead of hard-stopping CC functions on the enemy, just make it a little harder for the DPS frames to damage the enemies that are supposed to counter DPS abilities.

It's all subjective. I mean, thanks for the feedback post to discuss it, but you realise that your opinion is exactly equal to anyone else's, right? And there's plenty of people that do like it. On the other hand, have you considered the following: DE have created multiple Deluxe frames with Animation sets. The Excal Zato, Khora's Urushu (regardless of what you think of the skin), Mirage's Oneiro, Rhino's Deathwatch, the Valkyr Carnivex and Zephyr's Harrier skins all have both a Noble and Agile animation set. So picture this dark and edgy skin having new dark and edgy idles. Point of argument, there are many cases of idols (being what we're basing her animations on) having certain 'looks' or fashion campaigns where they act dark and edgy for the photoshoots and wear dark and edgy versions of their outfits. So it's perfectly possible that Pablo would put the cycle through the animation team to redo everything for one of those kinds of switch-ups. ::Edit::

That isn't the point of my response. My point is always this: When you have a team of people that you have to pay to do the work, test and then implement things into the game, you need more of a reason than 'I think a lot of people would find it fun'. I mean, yeah, that's sometimes the reason that DE do things, but rarely. Gauss is 'fast' in a specific way, and mechanically and functionally in the game he doesn't need to be faster. The key thing is that if you want him to be faster, DE would have to go in and tweak him, and that takes time away from things they would otherwise be doing. Like trying to minimise the bugs on the current update, bringing out an entirely new frame and quest before TennoCon (which they've promised to attempt at the PAX panel), or using the same part of the dev team for Abilities to fix frames that are in considerable need of fixing. So... you have to at least attempt to give more of a reason than 'it would let some players have more fun'. No change is free. Got to make it worth it. And, most importantly, you have to make it worth it more than quite a lot of other changes in the game, because where somebody requesting that Valkyr's 4th gets a rework because of how bad it is, Gauss is incredibly good. He's pretty incredible, to be fair. Changing him to make 'pretty incredible' into 'even better' is a harder sell than making 'Oh my hecking science, why does this animation lock me into complete immobility while using one of the shortest range Abilities in the world?!?!' into 'Hey, these slice-and-dice claws are pretty okay.' Do you see the logic? You... are trying to apply a physics discussion to 'I can get from A to B in a shorter time than you' category. Not the point, not what you think it is at least. And, for reference, it takes the exact same amount of time to aim a teleport that it does to aim a sprint direction, it's aiming, it's as fast as your own reaction times. A mis-aim in either case causes shorter distance travelled than meant, or ending up at a different point to where you meant. When aim and reaction time are equal, Nova gets to the destination so fast it legitimately breaks the game's loading time and causes tiles to not properly render before you enter them, no other frame can do that, we checked when other teleport frames are released. And this one, yeah, exactly this. It's a practice thing with many frames. Zephyr is considered overall quite fast, but as you've pointed out, requires a bit of skill. Gauss does the same, and is functionally more forgiving when impacts happen on scenery. That's still kind of a side-tangent from the point.

I really do think that there should be a bit of a double-checking function on threads like these. Tiltskillet did it in a general way, but there does need to be a little more of a question to OP in here: How do you quantify warframe power, OP? Because, for as long as I've been here, Warframe doesn't have anything other than 'completing objectives' to compare the frames with. This is why Revenant and Wukong are at the top of the usage ranks currently, because they allow players to easily complete objectives. They don't die, they have decent other abilities, and they make for great weapons platforms for basically easy-mode on anything. Why is Khora powerful? Because of scaling area damage and crowd control, plus a loot boosting ability. Why is Mesa powerful? Practically the opposite, offering high survivability and high single-target damage (even if the single target can be switched quickly). Why is Wisp powerful? It's not because of her Sol Gate, I'll tell you that... Highly effective functions that provide better survivability, radial CC and self-boost your other functions. But wait, that makes her a support version of Gauss, when taken in that context, with survivability, radial CC and self boosts. Then again, there are plenty of female frames that are at the bottom of the usage stats because they only do one thing, and many frames do something similar in a better way. Nyx and Banshee, for all that I love them both to play, are so focused that they find it difficult to keep up in the current game, poor Valkyr desperately needs some TLC on her 4th ability. I mean, here's a question I puzzle over; for the last 2 years, Zephyr has been consistently ranked at a high A tier for what she now does, but according to the stats her usage shifted by only 1% overall from 2022 to 2023, why is that? All of these female frames are powerful when modded and played right. But they're all different. They're all so very, very different that they can all be popular together and not really interfere. And the male frames are no exception. They're all very different, even when they share some functions, like Rhino and Nezha. Frost is, currently, in a really good place, with his augments, the changes to Cold, the changes to how Armour Strip works, all of the updates in the game have just made his kit apply harder. He's not the best, far from it, and there are multiple changes that could be made to buff him, any one of which would be great on its own. But he's low use because people see him as only a defense-based frame. Meanwhile you have monster damage output from frames like Baruuk and Ash, and people are still using them less than a frame like Gauss who (as I said before) is a more selfish version of Wisp with a way better 4th. Styanax and Kullervo are incredibly powerful in the current game, and yet... once people try out the builds that make them powerful, they go back to whatever other thing they felt comfortable with before. Enough rambling. I need to get to the point. Both genders of frames, including the plural frame, have a complete spread of the incredibly powerful to the not-so-hot. Xaku has that within their own kit, with Gaze being the bread-and-butter of stripping defenses, Accuse being okay for what it does with the CC, and Deny being the red-headed step child. There are some with higher usage, despite their lower power, and there are some with extremely high power that you see over and over. Why? Because you're trying to complete an objective. You're trying to grind for loot, get a reward to drop, something. And some frames help players do that better than others. Things are not nearly as disparate as OP is making them out to be, and if you go through any functional ranking system that doesn't make a 'top 10' list (since those are highly subjective) you'll find a surprisingly even portion of frames in each tier.

I really, really, really want to have them re-do the Asteroid tileset. While I enjoy the small tunnels and vents that connect the rooms as a concept, and while I love how non-linear some of the tiles are, they need more room for the current parkour and movement functions. Also, there are multiple frames now that simply get their abilities ruined by the layouts there.

Amateurs... Behold: Not only is it for a bad weapon, not only does it have such a high disposition that you can get these stats, but I actually maxed it and rolled it 5 times. It's such a bad Riven that I am actually shamed by having rolled it.

It's incredibly important. It's just completely un-quantifiable. When every single person's perception of it is different, then it can't be used for logical debate. In your example, what if they reduced Volt's Speed by 20% because more people found it 'fun' that way? You would feel cheated of the function, but at the same time, all of them would feel validated. Still, that said, there really isn't a reason for faster speed on speed abilities. We kind of need a function that gives greater control of the speed we already have.

Nier: Replicant is barely obscure these days after the success of Automata. The ones I was going to suggest are already in this thread from somebody else, but here's a fun fact: Since they're a 'Grimoire' weapon type, you'll always be able to find them by typing in 'grimoire'. The same way as typing in 'shotgun' brings up all shotguns.

Not his Passive, but Switch Teleport is getting the same instant movement function that other teleports have. Basically just removing the animation from the end, so you can teleport and run. It's also getting a function that gives him a movement speed boost after casting. Loki's going to be pretty smooth with this one.