Warframe pvp

[crackbeard]

if DE were too implement a better pvp system it could be the most popular game in the world. trust me i love the game how it is but i really think thats true.

[Joe_Barbarian]

Warframe has PVP?

[Hecro]

You must face the C o n c l a v e .

[FollowTheFaceless]

1 minute ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

Warframe is a PvE game. PvP is just a little extra that a majority of player doesn't like anyway.

Because it's bad. Just bad.

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

PVP would need a ton of help and resources to make it even half decent for the majority to play regularly, something I don't see DE doing in the slightest.

[Joe_Barbarian]

In all seriousness, DE should give Conclave some love IF or WHEN they make it server side hosting instead of client side so it's not biased towards the host.

I tried some Lunaro the other day, first match was fun, everyone had respectable ping. Second match however showed very clearly why Conclave is in bad shape. 3v3 2 players on my team lagging out so much they were useless so it was 3v1. Now never to return until they have server side hosting.

[rastaban75]

Aside from the technical issues like mentioned above, a serious issue with PvP is balancing the multitude of character classes in a way that makes it viable. If you consider the difficulty of balancing the various frames in PvE, with all the complaints and the constant calls for reworks and such, I think getting it right in PvP is extremely difficult.

[CupcakesMoo]

1 hour ago, crackbeard said:

if DE were too implement a better pvp system it could be the most popular game in the world. trust me i love the game how it is but i really think thats true.

No it won't. 

[Zyneris]

An overhaul to pvp would require quite a bit as well as dedicated servers on DEs side to take out the players hosting matches. In the event they were willing to give pvp that much focus and attention, I think that if they did something similar to what WoW has (various modes, ratings, unique rewards) that more people would be willing to get in to it. Obviously that wouldn't happen any time soon as Warframe is still blossoming with it's player base numbers, but maybe down the road somewhere.....

[DeMonkey]

2 hours ago, crackbeard said:

if DE were too implement a better pvp system it could be the most popular game in the world. trust me i love the game how it is but i really think thats true.

Define ''better''.

In order for many people to not consider PvP to be completely trash then mobility would have to be heavily toned down, as right now it's nothing but an annoyance (at least for me). The unfortunate side effect of this is then that it's no longer Warframe without it. The things that so many people like about Warframe, are also what make PvP so damn annoying.

[----Legacy----]

16 minutes ago, Zyneris said:

An overhaul to pvp would require quite a bit as well as dedicated servers on DEs side to take out the players hosting matches. In the event they were willing to give pvp that much focus and attention, I think that if they did something similar to what WoW has (various modes, ratings, unique rewards) that more people would be willing to get in to it. Obviously that wouldn't happen any time soon as Warframe is still blossoming with it's player base numbers, but maybe down the road somewhere.....

There are already community hosted dedicated servers, and even tough some of them are of a rather questionable quality, some others are twice faster than those of PvP games like overwatch, fast enough to provide a smooth experience even while playing with over 250ms of ping. I guess the logical step to follow would be allowing us to choose which servers to prioritize, ignore, or straight up let us browse servers and see ongoing matches to join, which would later be adapted to PvE if properly done.

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

PvP would arguably make this game worse

care to explain the slippery slope you're thinking about when talking about this?

If it's because of toxicity, it already exists in PvE, and the main source of it in PvP are, fun enough, the players who don't care about it but want to get the conclave rewards asap with the smallest effort possible.

If it's because of the rewards, these are just some weapon skins with no actual value other than the awful fashionframe meme.

If it's in terms of getting quests from teshin, none of the syndicate quests (barring revenant's miniquest) has required reaching certain rank in the syndicate to be played, so it's not like DE would tell us "we're releasing a brand new frame that can only be unlocked through a quest obtained from Teshin for the price of 132k standing"

On the other hand, pvp offers endless replayability value for really low investment, so even if you decide to play nothing but private lobbies with friends in order to have fun, you're already making use of it.

[Jeoxz]

PvP is good if you:

1. Have time into it, Ranks, mods and most importantly practice to get used to the movement.

2. Have friends also into PvP, that's true for almost all games tbh.

I don't play often but enjoy it once in a while.

[AgentSkye]

Warframe's PvP needs to be a standalone offshoot, a separate download and not part of the main Warframe client. Then it won't be held back by requiring PvE progression to get your gear, and it can be advertised as its own thing and attract players who actually want to PvP (most of Warframe's playerbase kinda doesn't), etc.

It'll probably be easier to balance that way as well.

[Cloud]

There was a time when a buy to play PVE Game made a special free pvp mode. After the boom, now that game is full pvp oriented and people craving for PVE updates left the game. You don't want the same thing happening to warframe.

[DeMonkey]

43 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

i don't see any way for DE to make pvp worthwile for the masses no matter how much they start catering to it.

First things first, I appreciate the civility.

And nor do I, I'll quote what I said earlier for reference.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

In order for many people to not consider PvP to be completely trash then mobility would have to be heavily toned down, as right now it's nothing but an annoyance (at least for me). The unfortunate side effect of this is then that it's no longer Warframe without it. The things that so many people like about Warframe, are also what make PvP so damn annoying.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't know whether you checked my profile or not but you and I are really the only 2 people in this thread (that I could check, note, I hadn't seen the above messages at the time. @Cloud too has given it a decent chance) who've given PvP a pretty big shot. You've obviously put more time into it than I have because you enjoy it, I on the other hand decided I gave it as good as I could give and that was the extent of the enjoyment I could get out of it. Fairly happy with the stats I walked out with.

As you noted, the current PvP has such a huge skill floor that in order for it to appeal to the masses, something would have to change. The easiest way of fixing this of course would be to eliminate that skill, which is centred primarily in the mobility.

If you remove that mobility then, or limit it in some manner... well, it's no longer really Warframe.

I'm looking at this as rationally as I can, and I simply cannot see a healthy future for PvP in Warframe, not when they're committed to the PvE side.

(Thank you moderator, whoever you are, this was appreciated)

Edited September 10, 2018 by DeMonkey

[iman00700]

Its mostly jumping sim de must do something about it

I really love that conclave skins

[----Legacy----]

6 minutes ago, iman00700 said:

Its mostly jumping sim de must do something about it

I really love that conclave skins

Wait, so are you telling me that players actually come to a sci-fi game advertised with the motto "ninjas play free" expecting to play it without making use of the parkour system?

[----Legacy----]

37 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

First things first, I appreciate the civility.

And nor do I, I'll quote what I said earlier for reference.

You're welcome, and thanks to you as well for remaining civil. Quoting yourself wasn't needed since it looks like we both agree on that point, even tough we have different experiences with pvp.

37 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Now don't get me wrong, I don't know whether you checked my profile or not but you and I are really the only 2 people in this thread (that I could check, note, I hadn't seen the above messages at the time. @Cloud too has given it a decent chance) who've given PvP a pretty big shot. You've obviously put more time into it than I have because you enjoy it, I on the other hand decided I gave it as good as I could give and that was the extent of the enjoyment I could get out of it. Fairly happy with the stats I walked out with.

I didn't check your profile in game, i was talking mainly based on what i've seen since any time i see people complaining about conclave, i check their profiles only to see the same repeating patterns, which paired with their comments says enough about those player's reasons to think the way they do.

37 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

As you noted, the current PvP has such a huge skill floor that in order for it to appeal to the masses, something would have to change. The easiest way of fixing this of course would be to eliminate that skill, which is centred primarily in the mobility.

The skill floor isn't even that high, and there's currently a place for players new to the conclave to learn the ropes fighting against others in their same situation. I'd say that the biggest issue with this separation is having an optional graduation, which can be easily abused by players in fear of facing experienced players but who also want to show a high KD ratio in their profiles.

37 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

If you remove that mobility then, or limit it in some manner... well, it's no longer really Warframe.

that's exactly one of the main reasons why it would stop being fun, if i wanted to play a pvp game with no mobility, i'd probably be somewhere else, but I'm sticking to the conclave because the mobility system stands out from other games and makes it unique.

37 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I'm looking at this as rationally as I can, and I simply cannot see a healthy future for PvP in Warframe, not when they're committed to the PvE side.

The only way i'd see a fututre for pvp is if DE gave some more tools to have an easier time finding matches and allowed it to have its own progression apart from pve. I've met some players who are really skilled and want to give conclave a try, but get discouraged and leave warframe once they notice the huge grind that they will have to do in pve if they want access to other stuff in pvp. The current system is actually kicking away the players who get to warframe interested mainly in the conclave, preventing any possibility of healthy growth for the pvp community.

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

The skill floor isn't even that high, and there's currently a place for players new to the conclave to learn the ropes fighting against others in their same situation. I'd say that the biggest issue with this separation is having an optional graduation, which can be easily abused by players in fear of facing experienced players but who also want to show a high KD ratio in their profiles.

Hmmm, I wonder if your experience with the PvP has led to you underestimating the skill floor? Or perhaps I'm just remembering the PvP worse than it actually was, wouldn't surprise me. (Honestly forgot that there's even a graduation thing, that does change things slightly).

For me, when I was playing I often found myself frustrated at the PvP, how good players could spend so much time leaping from wall to wall only to try and hit you with a one shot. Whilst this isn't something that requires a super high amount of skill, the reflexes to track a target doing this and the ability to perform similar moves at the same time can be quite demanding, and certainly requires a lot more skill than something like the CoD's or Battlefield games I grew up playing.

You're right however, newer players won't be running into this so quickly because of the MR level graduation...? I don't actually know how it works.

10 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

that's exactly one of the main reasons why it would stop being fun, if i wanted to play a pvp game with no mobility, i'd probably be somewhere else, but I'm sticking to the conclave because the mobility system stands out from other games and makes it unique.

Oh I know, the mobility is absolutely one of the key points for the game. I'm absolutely not advocating for it's removal or limitation.

However, at the same time it's one of the big factors in why people don't enjoy it, and in order to make it appeal to enough people for the PvP to be worth diverting resources to over PvE, something would have to happen to it. That's why I don't see a healthy future for it in this game.

The PvP absolutely could be better, and even retain it's current mechanics, but to do that would require resources. In order for it to be worth diverting those resources away from PvE development it would have to cater to, and thus appease, the PvE audience. 

Or at least, that's how I see it working.

I like the suggestion someone made above of having it developed as a separate game. Like, don't even hire a studio to make it, just give them the relevant assets and have a contract where they get a chunk of the profits.

Warframe's PvP can be turned into a completely standalone game, developed, balanced, managed and monetised without taking resources away from DE. I'm also totally living in a dream world, and it's 100% not as simple as that.

[babywrath]

Technical issues aside, I find that PVP is a waste of time because it garners me nothing more than conclave mod collectibles and weapon skins. Mods that you cant even use in PVE which is the majority of the content where you want to shine. It also does not work the other way around. Excelling in PVE does not give you an edge on PVP either so there is no reason for the general populace to even try PVP. I believe if PVP were to up its reward system, it would have more attention. The problem though would be if the rewards were a requirement for PVE such as top class mods or weapons. These would just bring more hate for the current system as it is quite lacking. 

In terms of play-ability, you have stability and balance issues. In terms of reward factor, it is clearly lacking. In terms of fun factor, then I would not know because I don't play it. In any case, incentive is clearly lacking. There is the fancy Celestia Syandana that almost made me eat my words but the fact that you have to keep playing Conclave to remain beautiful is a deal breaker. 

[AoiiToori]

Yeah, no. Go back to forrtnite/destiny

 

[----Legacy----]

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Hmmm, I wonder if your experience with the PvP has led to you underestimating the skill floor? Or perhaps I'm just remembering the PvP worse than it actually was, wouldn't surprise me. (Honestly forgot that there's even a graduation thing, that does change things slightly).

For me, when I was playing I often found myself frustrated at the PvP, how good players could spend so much time leaping from wall to wall only to try and hit you with a one shot. Whilst this isn't something that requires a super high amount of skill, the reflexes to track a target doing this and the ability to perform similar moves at the same time can be quite demanding, and certainly requires a lot more skill than something like the CoD's or Battlefield games I grew up playing.

You're right however, newer players won't be running into this so quickly because of the MR level graduation...? I don't actually know how it works.

It has nothing to do with mastery, so you can easily find players MR25 playing against MR0 with nothing but their melee of choice in the tutorial in RC lobbies. 

The "graduation thing" is just a small tickbox that reads "recruit conditioning [on/off]" and can be disabled by players below syndicate rank 2 at any time and disappears after reaching syndicate rank 3 leaving RC: OFF as the only choice. 

The issue with the graduation being treated like that is, as pointed before, players can simply choose not to rank up regardless of their kill count, which allows them to get certain amount of experience and skill enough to ruin the fun of new players and artificially increase the skill floor required to get into pvp. This also leads to players to disable the RC tickbox looking for more fair matches, which eventually puts them against the actually skilled players... I guess there's no need to explain how it follows.

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Oh I know, the mobility is absolutely one of the key points for the game. I'm absolutely not advocating for it's removal or limitation.

However, at the same time it's one of the big factors in why people don't enjoy it, and in order to make it appeal to enough people for the PvP to be worth diverting resources to over PvE, something would have to happen to it. That's why I don't see a healthy future for it in this game.

The mobility system is a huge factor for some older players to enjoy warframe pvp, however, it seems not to be the selling point for the generation of gamers nowadays. Just take a look at games like Quake (most of quake pro players are old by now, and QChampions is currently struggling to create and mantain a playerbase despite being slower than previous quake games and having powers that can help to move the balance in battles), Toxikk (low population) or Lawbreakers (which straight up failed because of the lack of interest despite being a really neat concept). 

Add there that warframe players, despite saying otherwise, seem to hate challenge or anything that requires a little bit of thinking in order to success. remember the old nightmare missions with friendly fire? these were easily completed, even in public lobbies, as long as one of your teammates didn't decide to start mindlessly nuking the whole map with teammates and objectives included (the trolling potential was nothing but an excuse since all you needed was to spot the troll and then keep him isolated, thing that also required a little bit of thinking or skill)

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

The PvP absolutely could be better, and even retain it's current mechanics, but to do that would require resources. In order for it to be worth diverting those resources away from PvE development it would have to cater to, and thus appease, the PvE audience. 

Or at least, that's how I see it working.

I like the suggestion someone made above of having it developed as a separate game. Like, don't even hire a studio to make it, just give them the relevant assets and have a contract where they get a chunk of the profits.

Warframe's PvP can be turned into a completely standalone game, developed, balanced, managed and monetised without taking resources away from DE. I'm also totally living in a dream world, and it's 100% not as simple as that.

About turning PvP into a different standalone game, i don't think it's needed since, if DE suddenly decides to pay to another studio and put conclave in their hands in order to let players progress mainly through pvp if they choose to do so, actual fixes to balance, etc. I guess they could do exactly the same with no need of making conclave into another game. 

Also no matter how players paint it, in order for conclave to get the improvements it needs all DE can do is to put some resources in there, either by actually dedicating part of their current staff to it (currently they only do some minor number tweaking once in a while, si i guess that saying "conclave has a dedicated team" is an exaggeration) or by giving money to another studio so they can work in it without taking away from the current staff. Oddly enough, no matter what they do, the playerbase will still complain because PvP is getting some attention and some would most likely start asking for other content (like trials) to get a similar treatment.

[DeMonkey]

5 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

It has nothing to do with mastery, so you can easily find players MR25 playing against MR0 with nothing but their melee of choice in the tutorial in RC lobbies

Gotcha, not sure why I thought it was based on mastery.

I can't imagine there's much that can be done to stop that happening, no matter the gating used.

5 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Oddly enough, no matter what they do, the playerbase will still complain because PvP is getting some attention and some would most likely start asking for other content (like trials) to get a similar treatment.

That's just it though, I see your points about it not being necessary, but distancing themselves from PvP so that it can be worked on without taking resources is the only way that doesn't happen.

If a separate studio were given the assets and the right to monetise the PvP as a separate game, and DE just took at cut... I could maybe see it working. 

It would be less likely to flop than other games as it would already have the attention of Warframe players. Eh. It's whatever to me. I'll probably play it if it gets better, but I wouldn't be surprised nor is it a problem for me if it doesn't. 

[Falconer777]

9 часов назад, ----Legacy---- сказал:

Wait, so are you telling me that players actually come to a sci-fi game advertised with the motto "ninjas play free" expecting to play it without making use of the parkour system?

Personally, I came into the game, advertised as a shooter in my favorite science fiction genre:) From what I see in public missions - most players too, because they will use parkour only for the speed of advancement on the mission. Not for battle, because all enemies and so are killed very quickly. Unlike streamers from the youtube, which hit their viewers with crazy somersaults)) Therefore, the abrupt transition of the game style in the Conclave is unpleasant to many.

I like PvP in principle, I always played PvP in WoW, GW2 (in this game I generally played only PvP, PvE did not interest me), Quake, War Thander, etc. But in the Warframe PvP is too fast, for me at least) 

But if the developers manage to create several PvP modes, where the gameplay would be comparable in speed to other games (that is, more accessible to most players), I would be only happy. I would love to play it. And I'm sure that not only me))

And I think that this would have a positive effect on the game as a whole - would have led more players into the game. And more players would stay in the game for a long time - because PvP is one of the variants of the endless endgame, which is always interesting.

[(PSN)sack_shot01]

15 hours ago, crackbeard said:

if DE were too implement a better pvp system it could be the most popular game in the world. trust me i love the game how it is but i really think thats true.

What if DE just let the players create the game modes for pvp. Kind of like the thing in Gta online Rockstar editor/creator. It would be easier for DE since they would have more time to focus on PvE and lore, while the players can spend time in PvP creating new game modes, trying it all out, while waiting for future updates. We have Tennogen so why not a Tennogen for PvP right?