Battle Royale

[MystMan]

1 hour ago, Falconer777 said:

"Unreal Tournament". Joint development with Epic Games. In due time this game successfully competed with Quake III Arena. So DE has a great experience in developing a successful PvP game. 

Your argument hit a big snafu with the "joint development" bit.  How much did DE do and how much did Epic do? For all we know DE did the model work and sound/music while Epic worked the game engine for example. We don't know.

The Unreal Tournament franchise is like 20 years old now.  Who is to say that the employees from way back then are still in employ of DE?   Companies change employees and talent a lot, what their capabilities & resources were back then does not necessarily mean it will still be here today. A company is just a name, its employees are not set in stone forever.

Unreal Tournament 3 which was 100% done all by Epic alone was received positively without assistance from DE. So it's safe to say that Epic can make a good UT game on their own. They have the talented employees for good pvp development.

Solar rail, conclave, Lunaro and Amazing Eternals have shown what happens when DE tried to make a pvp game on their own today without help from another studio. That's 4 attempts at pvp gaming already. History says..... the results are not good. DE is just much better at PVE development.

Edited September 22, 2018 by MystMan

[Falconer777]

The fact remains that DE has experience in developing a good PvP game. 

I did not find the solar rails here - but judging by some reviews on the forum - it was not so bad. Conclave ... I personally do not like the Conclave, too fast gameplay for me, but people play there. How many times I went to this regime - there was always a complete party. I hope in the future there will be some more good PvP modes. This is an excellent filler during the content drought, this endless endgame (which, by the way, is not enough for the Warframe), it will attract even more players, and make the game even more popular. And this in no way will affect fans of PvE, in the same way as now they are not affected by the Conclave. These modes do not overlap. The balance in PvP does not in any way affect the balance of PvE. And the resources for DE, if desired, will suffice for everything, a couple of PvP modes will not take too much effort.

[Elanair]

3 hours ago, rune_me said:

The community has no say in it. The community wasn't screaming for free roam maps, or for Frame Fighter, or for Rail Jack. They were just something that came to be because people at DE said "wouldn't it be cool?". And then they made it. Same thing could easily happen with Battle Royal. This is how they have always made new game modes.

Open world maps have been suggested before, you can even find posts suggesting that since 2014, same with spaceship battles aka Railjack and Frame Fighter started off as a pic that someone posted on twitter which got a lot of attention from the players because it seemed kewl to be in the game. Also, the difference between those game modes and BR is that the majority asked for those while with BR almost nobody wants except for the Fortnite fanboys. Even if by some absurd way they'll show a early concept version on a dev stream, the majority will shoot it down and DE will scrap the idea, why? Because they listen to their player base, because they don't want to repeat the same mistake that was Lunaro and even if they won't give us everything we want on a silver platter they do listen to the majority and refrain from wasting time and resources on game modes that nobody wants.

[rune_me]

1 minute ago, Elanair said:

Open world maps have been suggested before, you can even find posts suggesting that since 2014, same with spaceship battles aka Railjack and Frame Fighter started off as a pic that someone posted on twitter which got a lot of attention from the players because it seemed kewl to be in the game. Also, the difference between those game modes and BR is that the majority asked for those while with BR almost nobody wants except for the Fortnite fanboys. Even if by some absurd way they'll show a early concept version on a dev stream, the majority will shoot it down and DE will scrap the idea, why? Because they listen to their player base, because they don't want to repeat the same mistake that was Lunaro and even if they won't give us everything we want on a silver platter they do listen to the majority and refrain from wasting time and resources on game modes that nobody wants.

I can't imagine that the majority asked for open world maps. Especially now that we tried them and seen how terrible they are. (it's not actually open world at all, though, it's just a bland free roam map).

DE clearly implemented it, not to appease the community, but to jump on the bandwagon and be like all the other open world games out there, because open world and free roam was all the buzz when PoE got released. And now Battle Royal is all the buzz. And if DE can jump on one bandwagon, they can probably jump on two.

Don't get me wrong, I have no desire for Battle Royal, and will certainly never play it. But I have no doubt that we will see it in Warframe.

[Corvid]

24 minutes ago, rune_me said:

because open world and free roam was all the buzz when PoE got released.

I don't think this is an accurate assessment. Open World games were no more popular around PoE's release than they were in any other year.

[Legion-Shields]

25 minutes ago, rune_me said:

I can't imagine that the majority asked for open world maps. Especially now that we tried them and seen how terrible they are. (it's not actually open world at all, though, it's just a bland free roam map).

DE clearly implemented it, not to appease the community, but to jump on the bandwagon and be like all the other open world games out there, because open world and free roam was all the buzz when PoE got released. And now Battle Royal is all the buzz. And if DE can jump on one bandwagon, they can probably jump on two.

Don't get me wrong, I have no desire for Battle Royal, and will certainly never play it. But I have no doubt that we will see it in Warframe.

Open world games were popular long before Warframe even existed. Ever heard of The Elder Scrolls? Fallout? Need for Speed Underground 2 through Carbon? Midnight Club? S.T.A.L.K.E.R?

.... How about Grand Theft Auto? 

If DE really wanted to jump on this “open world bandwagon” they would have done so in 2012, not 2017.

[Elanair]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

I can't imagine that the majority asked for open world maps.

Well whether you can imagine that or not doesn't really change the fact that people asked for it, does it?

2 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Especially now that we tried them and seen how terrible they are.

Speak for yourself, I'm enjoying it.

Also...

Quote

(it's not actually open world at all, though, it's just a bland free roam map).

I'm not sure I understand what you mean there because by definition:

"Open-world video games are a type of video game where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives"

6 minutes ago, rune_me said:

DE clearly implemented it, not to appease the community, but to jump on the bandwagon and be like all the other open world games out there, because open world and free roam was all the buzz when PoE got released.

What bandwagon are you talking about? Open world games existed since 1980 and have been the standard since 2001 with GTA III, if DE wanted to jump that bandwagon they were over 15 years late I'm afraid.

[FLSH_BNG]

On 2018-09-14 at 12:35 PM, -Bv-Qrow_Wraith said:

I want Battle Royale, but not in the PVP. I want to go in with a team of 4-8 people is a survival like competition to who can make it the furthest with enemies, bosses and eximus units raining in on you while Nef Anyo tries to bombard you from orbit. 

This is literally just a minor change on Simaris' Sanctuary Onslaught.

[rune_me]

46 minutes ago, Elanair said:

Well whether you can imagine that or not doesn't really change the fact that people asked for it, does it?

Well people are asking for Battle Royal as well, aren't they? Every week there's a new thread asking for it.

46 minutes ago, Elanair said:

I'm not sure I understand what you mean there because by definition:

"Open-world video games are a type of video game where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives"

So not PoE, then, since you can't choose how or when to approach the objectives. You in fact only have one objective at a time, and there's only one way to approach them.

Ironically, by that limited definition, all of Warframe on the other hand could be considered open world, since on the star chart you are free to pick whatever mission you want, whenever you want it.

46 minutes ago, Elanair said:

What bandwagon are you talking about? Open world games existed since 1980 and have been the standard since 2001 with GTA III, if DE wanted to jump that bandwagon they were over 15 years late I'm afraid.

Yes they were indeed late to the party. In fact, people began declaring open world dead around 2016-2017. Which for some reason was when DE decided to jump on the bandwagon. Which is also why I said, I can't imagine anyone wanting it.

So give it some time. Wait for the Battle Royal trend to start to die out, then I'm sure DE will implement it in Warframe as well.

Edited September 22, 2018 by rune_me

[BETAOPTICS]

Those who want Battle Royale, I hope you understand that it isn't that simple to develop the mode as say a Frame Fighter was from the development perspective. Why not? Well the problem doesn't align in the code or the concept per say, it is everything else (well kind of code too but mostly other obstacles). As I and another presumably student or professional IT engineer pointed out as well, there are several economic and logistical issues. Conclave can host up to 8-players on DE's localized servers and that works because that strict 8-player limitation does not take that much server space, load or resources from the company to run.

If you think about the concept Battle Royale mode, the core concept is not complex so it frees development resources from a whole host of other areas and focuses them on the server to client communication side. In other words games like Fortnite run basic software and therefore maintaining that is relatively cheap since they do not have to develop their physics engines further, story elements, other parts (like Warframe IE classes). Where the games cost comes from is their huge server infrastructure that communicates with hundreds of clients (players) at the same time. A risky but at best profitable business model, risky because it relies on active player interest to be sustainable or it'll become very costly to the business (in some companies things like bug fixing can cost up to hundreds of millions a year, no I am not exaggerating). Luckily games are not quite as costly as some other companies can be, but regardless all that server space to run for clients (unless you'll suggest local client hosting, but I don't think any modern computer has the raw power they can push out to reliably maintain anything reasonable) takes a lot, and I mean a lot of resources. From maintaining the servers and clients to space and hardware itself (repairing broken machines, software, possible attacks to internet security etc.).

This would also have to mean DE would have to rework their games whole infrastructure right from the physics engine all the way up to their games infrastructure (how the game communicates with server and with other clients). For you see the reason DE developers can just pick up and develop random new modes is because they are working within the confined limitations of the games infrastructure. Frame Fighter only takes 2 players, minigames like in the Lupodex all work with the games already existing elements and infrastructure by manipulating the game elements that already exist. You could not do this with a Battle Royale mode unless you will limit that for 8-player maximum which is DE's current capacity infrastructure to run server to client services on. In which case what would be the point, because it is essentially Conclave taken to PoE and upcoming Fortuna. I don't know how many of you remember this but some years ago there was a bug that allowed more than 8-players to enter and the game began to stall on 2FPS because the packet load for the server was so big that the server was unable to process data fast enough for all of those clients. This would happen currently if today they would release the mode, I doubt anyone would be happy with that.

Now on a conceptual side I don't have a problem with idealization like this. It could be fun and cool as a concept. But from a development side I do not see how you could realistically do it for a team the size of DE. You'd have to pick your game as Battle Royale from the start (to afford it) or as Warframe currently is. Only giants like EA and Activision can afford to host both, and even companies like Activision are taking out story from Call of Duty: Blackout (Black-Ops 4) - to save in the costs of having a Battle Royale mode in the game. If you can provide a reasonable solution on how to fund a very expensive and high risk project like that or provide sufficient software development resources then by all means go for it. But at this moment in this thread this has been the biggest obstacle and I have not seen good answers for it. I am all ears though, it could provide new type of software that could make logistics easy to adapt.

Edited September 22, 2018 by BETAOPTICS

[Elanair]

1 hour ago, rune_me said:

Well people are asking for Battle Royal as well, aren't they? Every week there's a new thread asking for it.

Yes and for one person that asks for BR there are dozens of players or more who shoot down the idea because they do not want that game mode in Warframe. Do I have to point out the obvious here? C'mon this is getting silly.

1 hour ago, rune_me said:

Yes they were indeed late to the party. In fact, people began declaring open world dead around 2016-2017. Which for some reason was when DE decided to jump on the bandwagon. Which is also why I said, I can't imagine anyone wanting it.

What do you mean 'people began declaring open world dead'? Where did you get your info from, I'm curios. Also do you even understand what it means to 'jump on the bandwagon'? You jump on the bandwagon when something is very popular, not when it's dead, as you seem to state. Making a BR game mode or game when the BR genre is popular and at it's peek THAT is what it means jumping the bandwagon and getting in on that profit. Not after the market became over-saturated, after the trend dies down and the game genre is no longer popular or relevant. 

DE didn't jump the bandwagon, they added a feature that was the norm for more than a decade in most other games.

1 hour ago, rune_me said:

Ironically, by that limited definition, all of Warframe on the other hand could be considered open world, since on the star chart you are free to pick whatever mission you want, whenever you want it.

Going by your words then DE already introduced open world since the star chart, guess they jumped on the 'open world bandwagon' since alpha huh? 

1 hour ago, rune_me said:

So give it some time. Wait for the Battle Royal trend to start to die out, then I'm sure DE will implement it in Warframe as well.

Willing to make a 1000 plat bet with me that DE won't introduce a Battle Royal game mode? 😈

[rune_me]

17 minutes ago, Elanair said:

Yes and for one person that asks for BR there are dozens of players or more who shoot down the idea because they do not want that game mode in Warframe. Do I have to point out the obvious here? C'mon this is getting silly.

Same could be said about open world. For every idea, there'll be some people for it, some people against it.

17 minutes ago, Elanair said:

What do you mean 'people began declaring open world dead'? Where did you get your info from, I'm curios

Simple matter of overuse. Like how when I grew up Postmodernism was all the rave. Then one day you have a window display in a shopping mall being described as postmodern and everyone was like "yep, that's it, postmodernism has run it's course".

Open World has run it's course. It's been done to death and any developer with even a modicum of imagination stays well away from it and instead tries to do something different than what everyone else is doing.

IE, doing your own thing instead of jumping on the bandwagon. Whether that bandwagon be postmodernism or open world.

17 minutes ago, Elanair said:

Going by your words then DE already introduced open world since the star chart, guess they jumped on the 'open world bandwagon' since alpha huh? 

Those were your words. You posted a description of what you considered open world. Not me.

17 minutes ago, Elanair said:

Willing to make a 1000 plat bet with me that DE won't introduce a Battle Royal game mode? 😈

I don't do bets. I don't need plat. But if you need it for something, let me know for what.

I also don't actually really believe that they will implement battle royal, unless, as someone else said, they get their own dedicated servers. I was just implying at this time, no amount of dumb, boring game modes that detracts from the core gameplay of running short, map-based missions introduced into the game is going to surprise me.

Edited September 22, 2018 by rune_me

[Elanair]

44 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Same could be said about open world. For every idea, there'll be some people for it, some people against it.

Yeah, pity that you're comparing one feature where when it was announced back in 2017 at TennoCon the majority of people jumped out of their seats with joy while with battle Royale the majority shoots it down. How's that for a comparison?

44 minutes ago, rune_me said:

 

Simple matter of overuse. Like how when I grew up Postmodernism was all the rave. Then one day you have a window display in a shopping mall being described as postmodern and everyone was like "yep, that's it, postmodernism has run it's course".

Open World has run it's course. It's been done to death and any developer with even a modicum of imagination stays well away from it and instead tries to do something different than what everyone else is doing.

IE, doing your own thing instead of jumping on the bandwagon. Whether that bandwagon be postmodernism or open world.

Simple matter of overuse.... really? That's your reasoning? Open world has run it's course? Where do you get these facts from? Because it sounds like it's just your own opinion that you're throwing in. If we take a moment to do a simple google search we can find plenty of games that are open world in some form or way and very successful because of it and there are plenty more to come with such a feature. It is by no means dead as you seem to state.

44 minutes ago, rune_me said:

I don't do bets.

That's fine if you don't do bets, I can understand that and can even respect people who don't give in to such vices. I just prefer putting my money where my mouth is in such matters.

44 minutes ago, rune_me said:

But if you need plat, I can spare some. I'd be happy to help a fellow player out.

Tell you what... give that plat to the next player that actually asks you for some and maybe, just maybe I'll start being gullible enough take your word on it and ignore the slight. Deal? ^^

44 minutes ago, rune_me said:

I also don't actually really believe that they will implement battle royal, unless, as someone else said, they get their own dedicated servers.

Is that so?

4 hours ago, rune_me said:

Don't get me wrong, I have no desire for Battle Royal, and will certainly never play it. But I have no doubt that we will see it in Warframe.

3 hours ago, rune_me said:

So give it some time. Wait for the Battle Royal trend to start to die out, then I'm sure DE will implement it in Warframe as well.

No wonder you don't do bets, hells even I wouldn't do bets if I was in your shoes! 

I rest my case.

Anyone else want to take over? I feel like I've been playing chess with a dove all this time. 😭

[rune_me]

1 minute ago, Elanair said:

Yeah, pity that you're comparing one feature where when it was announced back in 2017 at TennoCon the majority of people jumped out of their seats with joy while with battle Royale the majority shoots it down. How's that for a comparison?

And if they announced Battle Royal at the next Tennocon, people would almost certainly jump out of their seats and cheer as well. Just like everyone cheered when they introduced Frame Fighter. Or Rail Jack. There will always be enough people to cheer everything DE does. Hell, I've done my share of cheering as well.

3 minutes ago, Elanair said:

Simple matter of overuse.... really? That's your reasoning? Open world has run it's course? Where do you get these facts from? Because it sounds like it's just your own opinion that you're throwing in. If we take a moment to do a simple google search we can find plenty of games that are open world in some form or way and very successful because of it and there are plenty more to come with such a feature. It is by no means dead as you seem to state.

Of course you can find plenty of games. That's what overuse means, you know. If there weren't any, then it obviously wouldn't be overuse.

And of course it's only my own opinion. Neither of us are spokespersons for the world's gaming community. I'm sorry if you assumed I had somehow been elected as such, but I assure you, I haven't.

5 minutes ago, Elanair said:

Is that so?

Yes?

6 minutes ago, Elanair said:

Anyone else want to take over? I feel like I've been playing chess with a dove all this time.

Wut, you're giving up that easy? Aww, come one, get in the game.

[Elanair]

3 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Wut, you're giving up that easy? Aww, come one, get in the game.

I think I'll pass since we'd be going in circles as before Mr. Dove.

Enjoy your victory, Mr. Dove. *dramatic bow and tip of the hat*

You've earned it along with all the compliments that come with it.

[TzXtetriC]

No thanks, keep that cancer mode away from warframe.

[(PSN)drollive96]

No please no