Analysis: The heavy inflation of rivens due to platinum economy and lack of disposition monitoring - leading to unsustainable prices and possible countermeasures

[Yatazanami]

24 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

False equivalency. It doesn't cost platinum/money to reroll a riven. It did cost platinum/money to reroll fur patterns 

and you're not fair in your short sighted comparison either : 

my point was even thought the kubrow slot machine handle was noway harmful to the core game , DE stepped in and eradicated it in days 

''and it was making them money'' .

the riven system was intended as a fix ''or crutches'' to the weak and underused weapons that collect dust, its not working as intended right now 😞 .

DE allowed it to root its feet deep into this game to the point where people invested/investing real money into it and in most cases for soul purpose of power-creep.

how many years should this cancer be allowed to grow like this without getting removed or chemotherapyed ? 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Yatazanami

[Rakosta_Kai]

5 minutes ago, Yatazanami said:

my argument for the ''right thing was'' what DE did with the kubrow slot machine , they eradicated the cancer before its spread and made its roots deep into the game 

but with the riven system it was never intended as permanent solution to begin with , it was a placeholder for Damage 3.0 and other related overhauls ''obviously we never get that ... yet.''

and how many years do you think i spent with this game ? i want it to succeed , i wanna see my favorite game known by all the world for the rare gem that is ''along with DE''---->

wonderful people .

but since i love it, i am gonna be harder on it, and i cant just setback and relax will the cancer eating it raw, i dont mind more money for DE but money that make the cancer

spread and flourish ? hell no .

DE couldn't do that with Rivens even if they wanted to.

They've made the system less predatory by increasing the chances at Rivens but as long as people see an opportunity at profit, there will be people who will abuse that opportunity.

It was common sense that the system was going to get to this point and had been predicted right after rivens were introduced by a number of different players.

...The only things DE can do to reduce Riven pricing is to :

• Reduce stockpiles of plat with more plat sinks to get it out of the economy.-Not gonna happen ...Ninjas play free.
• Add new systems to the current one for Riven rolls- Allow for greater control on roll results i.e. item choice, locking lines, etc. (This could work and could act as a Plat sink too with refinement)
• Encourage sellers to reduce prices.- Circumstances are doing this now
• Nuke Rivens -...that's coming to some degree imo.
• Make Rivens less impactful -create new mods that do similar things reducing the overall impact Rivens have...Lockout the ability to double dip attribute stacking via mods (POE shows they are doing the former)

Rivens aren't getting removed though and were never a placeholder for 3.0

DMG 3.0 is vaporware imo...System is too convoluted now to effectively do a 3.0 imo... Best they can do is close the performance gap between items, systems, and mechanics( which is what they have been doing in recent) and then mitigate outliers.

 

 

[Yatazanami]

18 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

They've made the system less predatory by increasing the chances at Rivens but as long as people see an opportunity at profit, there will be people who will abuse that opportunity.

 

DE is the abuser in this case please , they call the shots not us , and to prove my point please explain to me those lines (i quoted myself lol) :

Zephyr Prime access ------> Tiberon prime 5 star Riven disposition ( a mistake maybe ?)

Limbo Prime Access --------> Pyrana prime 4 freaking stars ( déjà vu flashbacks ....)

Chroma Prime Access --------> no chrome rework (shocker) , blatant Riv Elite/Vetala mix and match prime accessories and .... 5 freaking stars riven GRAM PRIME!!!

DE DUN GOOFED 🤪 they're not even hiding it anymore , a very clear picture on why the riven disposition didnt get balanced after 3 damn prime accesses and vaults 

in other word they're shamefully profiting out of the problem they created .

and you dont just make a meeting with the team and randomly select a weapon to be in the next prime accesse without knowing the in and out of everything 

related to the weapon (riven disposition included) so there is no sugar coating it .

Edited September 24, 2018 by Yatazanami

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, Yatazanami said:

DE is the abuser in this case please , they call the shots not us , and to prove my point please explain to me those lines (i quoted myself lol) :

Zephyr Prime access ------> Tiberon prime 5 star Riven disposition ( a mistake maybe ?)

Limbo Prime Access --------> Pyrana prime 4 freaking stars ( déjà vu flashbacks ....)

Chroma Prime Access --------> no chrome rework (shocker) , blatant Riv Elite/Vetala mix and match prime accessories and .... 5 freaking stars riven GRAM PRIME!!!

DE DUN GOOFED 🤪 they're not even hiding it anymore , a very clear picture on why the riven disposition didnt get balanced after 3 damn prime accesses and vaults 

in other word they're shamefully profiting out of the problem they created .

You've still failed to explain how they are profiting on it. It is mostly circulating plat that funds the rivens, not new injections into the plat-pool. So how exactly does DE profit on the rivens?

Also your kubrow comparison is so ass backwards it hurts.

edit: Or are you claiming people will flood to the prime access due to the weapons? Hardly since they can be obtained very quickly through gameplay.

Edited September 24, 2018 by SneakyErvin

[Zimzala]

47 minutes ago, (PS4)WeeMalk5 said:

No. Its we the people that play the game that have created the high cost riven trade.

Nothing to do with the makers. Its gamers costing gamers.

Not laughable, have a go at me if you wish, its just the way it is unless the makers choose to intervene.

The players made the 'problem', totally agree.

IMO, it is laughable, I am laughing.

Watching players work themselves up over the Rivens and the plat prices some people are willing to for them is hilarious.

[ElKayJae]

17 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It is mostly circulating plat that funds the rivens, not new injections into the plat-pool.

How do u know people don't buy plat just to get rivens?

17 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Or are you claiming people will flood to the prime access due to the weapons? Hardly since they can be obtained very quickly through gameplay

Completely missing the point of what @Yatazanami is saying. @Yatazanami is saying that DE is releasing new prime weapons without reviewing their current riven disposition.

[Xhobract]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Zimzala:

The players made the 'problem', totally agree.

IMO, it is laughable, I am laughing.

Watching players work themselves up over the Rivens and the plat prices some people are willing to for them is hilarious.

Beeing concerned about the stability of the games economy is laughable? I don't know about you but I would've left the game a while ago if not for the trading between players as it is now. As most everything gets traded via plat and an enourmous amount of that circulates through rivens or is even aquired in the first place to afford a certain one, the influence riven prices have on the rest of the economy is surely discussion worthy even if you don't trade rivens yourself, no?

[Yatazanami]

34 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You've still failed to explain how they are profiting on it. It is mostly circulating plat that funds the rivens, not new injections into the plat-pool. So how exactly does DE profit on the rivens?

Also your kubrow comparison is so ass backwards it hurts.

edit: Or are you claiming people will flood to the prime access due to the weapons? Hardly since they can be obtained very quickly through gameplay.

dude ... please read slowly and understated my points before you fire your shots ( you clearly didnt )

they selectively choosing Freaking Tiberon  with freaking 5 riven disposition to be in the the prime access (and they reworked him into the most power creep this game has ever seen)

so please dont insult me by telling me they're not screwing the riven market with this backward counter-productive choices.

and are you really making fun of me by telling me plat circulating on to fund rivens only ? ... what ! i have myself and my friends by ton of potatos and your

occasional syanadas/ deluxes/slots/boosters and when i am dry out of plat i sell rivens and star the same cycle all over again, and once you spend it in the market

fluff its gone into DE market ''plat-pool-sink'' you genius .

and i never suggested that riven disposition is the ''only'' selling point for the power-creep DE turn prime access weapons into (but it create more demand on

they're rivens) so DE will profit from all of this anyways lol . 

and are you calling my kurow comparison like that ? i didnt say fur patterns can be turned into primed chambers mods no ! 

i said it was a slot machine , and the game didnt have much content going for it back then so fashion and Hulk pets where the norm and yet DE stepped in and 

eradicated that money making machine even though not many complained about it , now compare this to the riven system that is making more problems and

gaping holes into the game core (and dont tell me you can get good rivens easy) and think it about for a damn second man , is int the riven system getting used

for the opposite intended purpose ?

and you think that is okay ? and should stay that way ? how much time have passes since the last riven balance ? what will happen to the people who invested 1k

and up into the Leaked Gram Prime ?

how is DE okay with letting that cancer provoke , and not stopping it dead on its tracks by making good game design changes and protecting the players

'from themselves' for a problem they themselves created ? i demanded answers ! 

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Yatazanami

[Zimzala]

1 minute ago, Xhobract said:

Beeing concerned about the stability of the games economy is laughable? I don't know about you but I would've left the game a while ago if not for the trading between players as it is now. As most everything gets traded via plat and an enourmous amount of that circulates through rivens or is even aquired in the first place to afford a certain one, the influence riven prices have on the rest of the economy is surely discussion worthy even if you don't trade rivens yourself, no?

Real worrying over the in-game economy in any virtual world by anyone other than the developer/publisher is laughable.

Players worrying over using these 'god' rivens the prices associated is laughable.

This is nothing more than humans worrying about trivial issues they made for themselves.

This is a virtual world created for entertainment that happens to be popular enough to turn a profit.

It is not some gift to humanity or even a utility, WF is entertainment.

The mental gymnastics that many players engage in to make themselves 'feel' better/worse about the game, the state of the game, and the other players, are laughable.

None of this is new.

Every evolving game on the planet that has forums has topics like this one, expressing everything from impassioned responces to outright conspiracy theories.

I am fully aware that for some number of WF forums goers, this will be the first game forum in which they have seen these things.

I am fully aware that some people will not read what I wrote, but what they think i wrote.

It dose not matter, all of the threads on any game forum on the planet are just a bunch of elitists blowing hot air anyway, myself included. 🙂 

[Yatazanami]

2 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Real worrying over the in-game economy in any virtual world by anyone other than the developer/publisher is laughable.

Players worrying over using these 'god' rivens the prices associated is laughable.

This is nothing more than humans worrying about trivial issues they made for themselves.

This is a virtual world created for entertainment that happens to be popular enough to turn a profit.

It is not some gift to humanity or even a utility, WF is entertainment.

The mental gymnastics that many players engage in to make themselves 'feel' better/worse about the game, the state of the game, and the other players, are laughable.

None of this is new.

Every evolving game on the planet that has forums has topics like this one, expressing everything from impassioned responces to outright conspiracy theories.

I am fully aware that for some number of WF forums goers, this will be the first game forum in which they have seen these things.

I am fully aware that some people will not read what I wrote, but what they think i wrote.

It dose not matter, all of the threads on any game forum on the planet are just a bunch of elitists blowing hot air anyway, myself included. 🙂 

why are you here ? just to put us down , and yea yeah memoria morti and all that jazz, this game is just for fun and why are you frustrated about this trivial things na na na 

please, discuses the heart of the matter or just go save the world or discuss the universe with neil degrasse tyson or something  .

[Rakosta_Kai]

10 minutes ago, Yatazanami said:

DE is the abuser in this case please , they call the shots not us , and to prove my point please explain to me those lines (i quoted myself lol)

There's an argument to be had regarding whether or not DE was the "abuser" in this case, but it's also rather irrelevant at this point.

Yes, DE egged the fervor on a bit in the beginning but they have also made Rivens more accessible to everyone so differing opinions will vary on if that balances scales or not.

14 minutes ago, Yatazanami said:

Zephyr Prime access ------> Tiberon prime 5 star Riven disposition ( a mistake maybe ?)

Limbo Prime Access --------> Pyrana prime 4 freaking stars ( déjà vu flashbacks ....)

Chroma Prime Access --------> no chrome rework (shocker) , blatant Riv Elite/Vetala mix and match prime accessories and .... 5 freaking stars riven GRAM PRIME!!!

Disposition isn't for the Primes... They are for the original items and DE hasn't updated disposition in a long time.

...DE has also freely noted that they haven't but will be doing so.

Dispositions don't determine riven price though(although they can impact it)...Rarity does by influencing perceived value.

Perceived value is subjective.

I want a couple of Sobek Rivens and another Pyrana and Strun Riven...But I was a Strun, Sobek, and Pyrana user before they caught limelight too though and they are now too expensive to buy because they caught a bit of shine. That shine coupled with the fact that RNG exists raised their prices.

DE didn't set or raise those prices...Players did based on perceived value..

27 minutes ago, Yatazanami said:

DE DUN GOOFED 🤪 they're not even hiding it anymore , a very clear picture on why the riven disposition didnt get balanced after 3 damn prime accesses and vaults 

in other word they're shamefully profiting out of the problem they created .

and you dont just make a meeting with the team and randomly select a weapon to be in the next prime accesse without knowing the in and out of everything 

related to the weapon (riven disposition included) so there is no sugar coating it .

Possibly... This presumes that all (or even just many) Rivens are purchased with freshly purchased plat though. 

But we already know that the bulk of purchases actually happen with old plat because the game lacks reliable means to get the plat out of circulation.

I doubt DE is even seeing 10% of what gets traded on Rivens daily....The biggest issue with Rivens is that they are so expensive they have priced people who will buy plat out  of the market almost entirely...That actually hurts DE.

    That's not to say that DE is a saint in all of this... I am certain they aren't because they have a long track record of generating profit from manufactured scarcity.

The facts are that they have certainly reduced the scarcity to attempt to correct that... But Rivens have basically become Frankenstein's Monster at this point.

Disposition adjustment, as much as you and others want to think it will have an impact, likely won't have the impact you are expecting... Perceived value determines cost.

...All disposition adjustments will do is inflate the value of old Rivens.

Really there's not much, short of attribute locking/capping, that will slow the impact of Rivens at this point and that's a mechanic DE appears to have been working to avoid for years now.

It's a nasty issue requiring an elegant solution on a lot of fronts.

[Yatazanami]

7 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Disposition isn't for the Primes... They are for the original items and DE hasn't updated disposition in a long time.

yub and this is so bad , i certainly dont know how coding works , or how much time or what problem you may face trying to change the riven disposition but

dont you think DE could make a good almost permanent fix wish is the following ( make every gun primed/prsima/wraith/ have its individual own riven disposition and this will

100% fix the mess that is going on right now ( i mean god knows what happen if they prime akfuris/aklatos or magnus/akmangus with they're current disposition)

Edited September 24, 2018 by Yatazanami

[Zimzala]

7 minutes ago, Yatazanami said:

why are you here ? just to put us down , and yea yeah memoria morti and all that jazz, this game is just for fun and why are you frustrated about this trivial things na na na 

please, discuses the heart of the matter or just go save the world or discuss the universe with neil degrasse tyson or something  .

I am here to present a counter argument to the one esposed here, that there is a real problem to be solved, when, in fact, the problem is in the minds of the gamers who cannot get the items they think they deserve when they think they deserve them.

This silly riven angst espoused by some posters on the forums is not a healthy view of the game and I choose to call it out as such.

It is obvious to DE as well as the playerbase that the riven system is not perfect, just like any system in any game.

The only thing to be done is to wait for DE to make changes.

People like you, trying to manipulate emotions by making statements intended to do nothing by bully DE into your line of thinking is the answer to 'why I am here'.

Why would I possibly care what you would prefer I discuss, when my whole goal is to show that your outlook is nothing more than FUD?

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 hour ago, Yatazanami said:

and you're not fair in your short sighted comparison either : 

my point was even thought the kubrow slot machine handle was noway harmful to the core game , DE stepped in and eradicated it in days 

''and it was making them money'' .

the riven system was intended as a fix ''or crutches'' to the weak and underused weapons that collect dust, its not working as intended right now 😞 .

DE allowed it to root its feet deep into this game to the point where people invested/investing real money into it and in most cases for soul purpose of power-creep.

how many years should this cancer be allowed to grow like this without getting removed or chemotherapyed ? 

A) my point WAS fair. Do I need to explain it to you again? A different way perhaps?

B) the kubrow slot machine WAS harmful to the game, though. One of the biggest "things" about DE is their emphasis on fair microtransactions. If you want something you know what your getting. And a "slot machine" even if profitable isnt something they want in their game. You compared it to rivens but they aren't the same. You cant use your credit card to sit there and reroll a riven as many times as you can afford.

C) rivens are not solely responsible for powercreep. Powercreep isnt the devil, by the way but that's besides the point. Does lesion need a riven to be one of the best melee weapons in the game? Does Tigris prime need a riven? Does akstiletto prime need a riven? How about synoid gammacor? The list of weapons goes on but you should see the point. I would argue rivens dont even matter that much until you're talking about level 100+ enemies, which most players won't encounter outside of sortie 3 or eso.

D) "cancer". What makes this "cancer"? People trading large amount of plat? (which doesnt affect you) players becoming more powerful? (In a way that doesnt have any practical impact on your gameplay) or maybe DE making money is bad?

It's been over 600 days since the last documented riven change. I think it's safe to say their "meta balancing" idea was dropped a long time ago and I think it's for the best.

[Xhobract]

vor 31 Minuten schrieb Zimzala:

I am here to present a counter argument to the one esposed here, that there is a real problem to be solved, when, in fact, the problem is in the minds of the gamers who cannot get the items they think they deserve when they think they deserve them.

Just because something doesn't seem to concers you doesn't mean it's not a problem for others. You don't get to determine what bothers others or not. Guess what, I have thousands of plat and can get everything I want and am still here arguing.

This silly riven angst espoused by some posters on the forums is not a healthy view of the game and I choose to call it out as such.

It is obvious to DE as well as the playerbase that the riven system is not perfect, just like any system in any game.

The only thing to be done is to wait for DE to make changes.

Without feedback or some pressure nothing will happen. Why should they risk changing anything if nobody complains about something they perceive as going wrong? We've seen it before, e.g. with how long it took to get seperate Accessory packs with the prime vault. It took Jim Sterling to finally push DE to make that a thing...

People like you, trying to manipulate emotions by making statements intended to do nothing by bully DE into your line of thinking is the answer to 'why I am here'.

Why would I possibly care what you would prefer I discuss, when my whole goal is to show that your outlook is nothing more than FUD?

Why should I care about someone clearly having barely done any trading in this game? Why should I care about someones opinion when they only have joined this game in July? Sure you can utter your opinion and you might have experiences in other games, but don't speak as if you've plenty of first hand experience with Warframes economy or even Warframe in general, because you do not!

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Xhobract

[Otaiken]

Arguments in this topic would make sense if rivens were some important basic commodity and the implementation of said commodity priced poor masses out of the market.

But... rivens are not important basic commodity. In 99.9% of the game's content godtier rivens are complete overkill. If there was some kind of endgame content that absolutely required rivens on already strong meta weapons to clear then you'd have an argument that riven market is exploitative and harmful but that isn't the case.

So we have a largely superfluous commodity selling for ridiculous prices. Rivens are luxury goods of Warframe. Of course people in trading will tell you that you absolutely must have these things, they're trying to sell them!

Also, I know they're being advertised for such prices but are they actually selling? Most people will just copy the price they see others posting for since they have no idea how valuable rivens actually are. Until we get actual data on the volume of sales at these prices we can only speculate.

If there's anyone rivens can possibly exploit it's the obsessive 100 percenter minmaxing personality type. And well... those are exploited by gaming systems across the entire industry.

I do find it sad that the system which meant to encourage poeple to go out of their comfort zone and try different things resulted in simply widening the meta weapon category. But I don't  know to what extent that is the fault of the system and to what extent it's the fault of the players. I'm fine with rivens because I don't see them as lottery tickets. I see them as a way to make more niche weapons more viable as is intended. The only way DE can force people to see rivens that way is to make them completely untradable and I'm not sure people really want that.

The fact is that if you want to engage in the riven system as it was inteded (boosting weak weapons, and encouraging you to build stuff you wouldn't normally use) you absolutely can without spending a single plat. Just go get yourself some rivens and farm some kuva. Sure it is RNG but if you could selectively pursue a riven for a weapon it would defeat the point of the system. So how exactly are players who use the riven system the intended way harmed by the ridiculous market pricing?

[Jarriaga]

Riven pricing madness will end when people can actually work their way to the riven they want by allowing stat locks when rolling again.

Now, in order to prevent "God riven dealers" when stat locking is a thing, you will only be able to trade rivens with random stats. The moment you lock a stat, that riven can only be used by you at that point and you can can no longer trade it.

There. Problem solved. People who don't want to buy rivens can still get the stats they want by doing nothing but kuva farming, and those who get extremely lucky to get perfect rivens in random rolls can still sell them.

But that will not be implemented at all. People must get platinum from somewhere in order to buy a riven, and even if you make your plat selling stuff, those who bought from you had to get their plat from somewhere. At the end of the chain that's a lot of money DE is making, so I don't think they will address this.

Oh, and riven disposition should be refreshed DAILY with the server refresh at 8:00pm Eastern Time using automatic usage statistics from the last 24 hours.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Jarriaga

[Rakosta_Kai]

12 minutes ago, Yatazanami said:

yub and this is so bad , i certainly dont know how coding works , or how much time or what problem you may face trying to change the riven disposition but

dont you think DE could make a good almost permanent fix wish is the following ( make every gun primed/prsima/wraith/ have its individual own riven disposition and this will

100% fix the mess that is going on right now ( i mean god knows what happen if they prime akfuris/aklatos or magnus/akmangus with they're current disposition)

No. The issue has nothing to do with coding...It's, literally, an economic issue.

No. Ham-fisted repairs and additions can do more harm than good long term by cluttering the reward pool even further which creates more rarity and inflates perceived value. If DE wanted to drive down prices they could just as easily have added an AH and been done with it.

Do pardon me for saying this...Every time someone mentions current dispositions as a major contributing factor it tells me they aren't seeing the actual problem.

Speculation, perceived value, and plat value are the actual problems.

The Rivens that exist currently will likely not be affected by disposition changes unless they continue to be rolled (even then they might not be)...So any Riven acquired before the disposition changed goes up in value. Changing disposition will, likely, only impact the value of new Rivens of that item...DE has no relevant excuse to adjust old Rivens for an oversight on their part.

Ostensibly, what that can create is a slew of individual Rivens more rare than even Primed Chamber was when it was considered rare... This isn't a surprise though (I think) as many have already said that it would happen that way in this system anyway.

The problems right now is that inflation has priced most players who'd buy plat out of the market entirely and has attracted a black market to boot making sellers wary...That's what DE has to solve for as they can lose revenue, players, and reputation if they don't.

[-STR-Lotus]

Riven mod=40.000 plat  

black market

[Otaiken]

14 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

 The problems right now is that inflation has priced most players who'd buy plat out of the market entirely and has attracted a black market to boot making sellers wary...That's what DE has to solve for as they can lose revenue, players, and reputation if they don't.

Priced most players out of what market? Riven market?

Rivens are not basic commodity. Especially godtier rivens are mostly a gross overkill for any of the game's content. They're luxury goods, superfluous and expensive.

The bread and rice of warframe market is not rivens, it's basic mods and prime parts and those are as affordable as ever and entirely unaffected by rivens (vaulting though, that's another matter). Or is the implication here that players who got rich on rivens will start buying basic prime parts for ridiculous prices and hence ruin the market for poor players?

Riven market should be largely separate anyway. Solely the fact that it shares chat with other trading makes a lot of people annoyed. Just putting it in its own corner would be a huge improvement.

Edited September 24, 2018 by LocoWithGun

[MiMiren]

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

It dose not matter, all of the threads on any game forum on the planet are just a bunch of elitists blowing hot air anyway, myself included. 🙂 

There are other reasons why someone might in go to a forum of the game they enjoy.

Other than that, I agree with the rest of your post.

[SaXToM]

Now i have your attention

WTS hexapentaduoplexcritatis snipetron 15kpl ir pmo😁

[vvhorus]

If someone wants to spend hundreds of dollars in platinum to have the ability to one-shot a Teralyst or level 200+ enemies, who am I to judge? They're paying ridiculous amounts of real money to make their game easier. It's their loss, really, in more ways than one.

Interesting read, though. Too bad DE will not do anything about this riven mess any time soon. As some have pointed out, they're profiting big time from plat sales and I'm not sure they're ready to jump off the gravy train just yet...

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, ElKayJae said:

How do u know people don't buy plat just to get rivens?

Completely missing the point of what @Yatazanami is saying. @Yatazanami is saying that DE is releasing new prime weapons without reviewing their current riven disposition.

I dont, but logic tells me (and others) it is like that. And DE is releasing it based on the current version of the item or in the case of new releases they put a dispo that resembles that of a very similar weapon. It still has nothing to do with DE profiting from it as he claims, or doing it in order to earn more profit. Those are simply conspiracy theories. Everything comes down to the players in these cases and not DE.

I mean these same horses have been beaten to death in other games aswell that has a "premium" currency that can be traded between players in one way or another. It still comes down to player choices and what they think it is worth. Some games can have massive fluctuations between different servers and there is never anything the developer want or can do since it is a free market.

2 hours ago, Yatazanami said:

and you think that is okay ? and should stay that way ? how much time have passes since the last riven balance ? what will happen to the people who invested 1k

I erased the anecdotal story about you spending plat obtained from riven trades on the market because common sense and logic disagrees with that being the norm. DE's economical gain from rivens will simply be a thing we have to agree to disagree on since neither of us have any actual facts to back it up. And if you cant see the lack of similarity between the Kubrow pattern reroll and rivens it is pointless to discuss such things. So I'll focus on the part quoted above.

No, it is not OK that rivens have had a long period since the last balance pass. I've never argued that it was. What I said was DE should stay away from trying to regulate the market since that is what smart devs do. Players want their own economy and that is how it should be in a social game. They shouldnt have their hands held by the devs. However, DE should rebalance disposition since it has been a long while since last and they should do it more regularly. This in turn may drop the prices on rivens because people may not be so eager to jump on the next FOTM weapon/riven combo and spend absurd amounts of plat on it. Now there are weapons that also shouldnt change. DE should sit down and take a deeper look than just glancing over the popularity of a weapon, which is one of the main focuses atm when it comes to determining dispo and not the actual strength of the weapon.

Luckily many under performing weapons have been unpopular just as many strong weapons have been popular. But currently the dispo is all over the place, especially since the weapon rework a few months back.

Also, it isnt hard to get good rivens by simply playing the game. I've got several for weapons I enjoy and I havent bought a single one. I have a few for some other weapons that I need to reroll, but so far I cant complain one bit. Some of them are good enough to make the weapon crazy while others are even better.

I also couldnt care less for the hypetrain crew that have started hunting rivens for Gram before it has even gone live. That is their problem from trusting leaks, not DEs. People decide on the value of things, it isnt DEs business to limit the free trading. The players created the "problems" on their own so should be able to solve them aswell.

Also, try and structure your posts in the future to something that is easier for the eye to read. Add some capital letters at the start of sentences, tighten it all up into paragraphs instead of single lines (which is extremely annoying to read when it is in the middle of a sentence). Please stop using the word cancer aswell, because this is nothing similar to that vile thing.

In closing. This whole "issue" is also just related to rivens, the rest of the warframe market is very well balanced. But if you want DE to regulate rivens then obviously they need to start regulating everything else, so that Augur Secret mod doesnt sell for anything above 20p and the syndicate mods can only yield you 5p. See how #*!%ing $&*&*#(%&ed that would be?

[Rakosta_Kai]

48 minutes ago, LocoWithGun said:

Priced most players out of what market? Riven market?

Yes...This thread regards Rivens and the Economy surrounding them.

48 minutes ago, LocoWithGun said:

Rivens are not basic commodity.

True but neither is any other difficult to acquire mod really.

48 minutes ago, LocoWithGun said:

Especially godtier rivens are mostly a gross overkill for any of the game's content. They're luxury goods, superfluous and expensive.

Everything is.

49 minutes ago, LocoWithGun said:

The bread and rice of warframe market is not rivens, it's basic mods and prime parts and those are as affordable as ever and entirely unaffected by rivens (vaulting though, that's another matter). Or is the implication here that players who got rich on rivens will start buying basic prime parts for ridiculous prices and hence ruin the market for poor players?

None of those things amount to bread or rice tbh.

Everything is equal because any of those items could cause a player to purchase plat for them.

DE's side hustle for revenue from trading has quite possibly become much much larger now but I don't think anyone seriously believes that players are routinely spending thousands on the current Riven prices which means that group (plat buyers) that actually creates revenue for DE via demand now isn't when it comes to rivens.

I have no doubts that DE probably made a mint before the pricing skyrocketed though.

That said, If players are circulating old plat for rivens, DE makes no money.

Since not much actually costs plat, DE removes no comparatively significant amounts of plat from the economy = inflation.

No matter how you cut it, that's potential revenue loss if the prices are inflated or trust erodes..

Sellers that catch a hot bag (duped plat, chargedback plat) now get stuck for the amount which creates an entirely different set of issues for DE long term as it kills trust in the system and disinclines sellers that pay up to keep their account to bother selling... alternately the seller with the negative balance has their account held hostage until they pay up...That will affects supply across the board when it happens to enough players.

Fewer sellers = higher prices= less purchases which can equal less revenue ( I haven't a clue if it is or not currently though).

So when you say, "Rivens have no effect on the rest of the market or the game."... that is wishful.

... We don't know if it has, but we do know that it can. 

49 minutes ago, LocoWithGun said:

Riven market should be largely separate anyway. Solely the fact that it shares chat with other trading makes a lot of people annoyed. Just putting it in its own corner would be a huge improvement.

They share many of the same sellers which means they are all connected.

Had I my preferences, plat would never have been allowed to be traded at all directly but ducats would have been added as a viable third, buffer, currency. The currency would have had exchange rates in place to give

• people with plat access to a viable currency for trades
• free players viable access to a premium currency via the same exchange

... All while bleeding the premium currency from the economy for ducat exchanges, adjusting differences in value via the exchange ratio,  and protecting sellers via the buffer currency.

That's not what happened though so what we have now is the makings of a hot mess.