- impact on rubico?

[Pbicez_Prime]

so i saw this guy selling CC CD MS -impact rubico for like 20k on the tradechat yesterday.im just wondering won't that - 100% impact make the riven literally worthless?i mean 90% of rubico damage is on impact and -100% impact means 90% dmg loss right?or did i get something wrong here?

[-Onyx-Zodiac]

vor 1 Minute schrieb pbicez:

so i saw this guy selling CC CD MS -impact rubico for like 20k on the tradechat yesterday.im just wondering won't that - 100% impact make the riven literally worthless?i mean 90% of rubico damage is on impact and -100% impact means 90% dmg loss right?or did i get something wrong here?

with lets say 100% impact you get other Damage Types to proc more often 
i have a CC MS -Impact Rubico riven and it procs slash quite often level 120 Bombards are one hits right away, Heavy Gunners ill just shoot and watch them get drained by an massive 17k Slash Proc 

[Pbicez_Prime]

Just now, -NR-Zodiac said:

with lets say 100% impact you get other Damage Types to proc more often 
i have a CC MS -Impact Rubico riven and it procs slash quite often level 120 Bombards are one hits right away, Heavy Gunners ill just shoot and watch them get drained by an massive 17k Slash Proc 

i mean... slash proc is useless against eidolon which most people use rubico,vectis,lanka or any other sniper rifle for.and my question sttill stands,will thatr -impact affect the overall damage or not?because according to my knowledge that is like 90% damage loss.

[Peter]

6 minutes ago, -NR-Zodiac said:

with lets say 100% impact you get other Damage Types to proc more often 
i have a CC MS -Impact Rubico riven and it procs slash quite often level 120 Bombards are one hits right away, Heavy Gunners ill just shoot and watch them get drained by an massive 17k Slash Proc 

I can hitkill heavy gunners 155 with my CC + CD + MS - Infested

 

- Impact is the worst neg for Rubico, impact is perfect for any corpus boss, index and have 100% normal damage on Eidolon and any non-flesh target, and -Impact don't improve Hunter procs, you can have 10 elements on your weapon, the chance to proc slash is the same anyway.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Peter

[BallisticSalsa]

yeah with the raw damage CC riven on my rubico alone I already do everything i could ever ask for.

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, pbicez said:

i mean... slash proc is useless against eidolon which most people use rubico,vectis,lanka or any other sniper rifle for.and my question sttill stands,will thatr -impact affect the overall damage or not?because according to my knowledge that is like 90% damage loss.

IPS (Impact, Puncture and Slash) Damage doesn't affect the calculation for elemental damage.
Sure, you lose a lot of impact damage. But the main damage source on a lot of weapons is the elemental damage. So negative impact isn't extremely bad.

[DeMonkey]

12 minutes ago, pbicez said:

because according to my knowledge that is like 90% damage loss.

No, as - Impact is literally that, - Impact. The elemental damage that's derived from your weapons base damage value will remain exactly as it is, and given elemental damage makes up a large if not overwhelming percentage of your guns damage, it's not that bad.

It's still bad for the Rubico, it's just not that bad.

[Madway7]

17 minutes ago, pbicez said:

i mean... slash proc is useless against eidolon which most people use rubico,vectis,lanka or any other sniper rifle for.

So is impact damage

17 minutes ago, pbicez said:

my question sttill stands,will thatr -impact affect the overall damage or not?because according to my knowledge that is like 90% damage loss.

90% base dmg loss =/= 90% total damage loss. Adding elemental mods still works with 100% of the base damage regardless if impact is there or not.

Someone in a discord server im in claimed to have gotten 2 big offers for his Vulkar riven. Because it had -100 impact dmg.

I didnt realise at first why he got offered 4.3k plat or 2k plat + any riven they had, but afterwards I found out Gas Vulkar is a monster if you have the right riven (required stats are multishot, cc and -impact). With the base status chance it procced it a lot and the damage was high enough where armor didnt matter much (at least to lv155 enemies). Also the vulkar mod helped a lot.

Since that day ive notice several people in trade chat make big offers for -impact Vulkar rivens.

Now the Rubico doesnt have great status so it wont be as viable on it, but in general it just doesnt matter because the base damage loss, while it does affect overall dmg, doesnt affect the elemtal damaged you can add.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Madway7

[rapt0rman]

If you intend to use if for Eidolons then yeah, -Impact is a hindrance. If you intend to use it for Hunter Munitions then it's excellent.

16 minutes ago, Peter said:

and -Impact don't improve Hunter procs, you can have 10 elements on your weapon, the chance to proc slash is the same anyway.

Not quite. Things to keep in mind: removing 100% of impact from Rubico Prime results in a 24.8% chance to proc slash up from 4.9% (before elements and Hunter Munitions), and gives you a much higher chance to proc viral which is important for slash builds.

Edited October 1, 2018 by rapt0rman

[SneakyErvin]

You dont want negative impact on Rubico/Prime. Having negative impact will not help the weapon out with getting slash procs because the slash value is already way too low. It has to rely on Hunter Munition in cases where you want slash procs and reduced impact damage will not increase the probability for that mod to trigger. Negative impact will simply gimp the damage output versus Eidolons, mobs you cant proc slash or other statuses on anyways. It will also gimp you versus Corpus, which in turn means gimped in the Index.

 

[Peter]

4 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

If you intend to use if for Eidolons then yeah, -Impact is a hindrance. If you intend to use it for Hunter Munitions then it's excellent.

Not quite. Things to keep in mind: removing 100% of impact from Rubico Prime results in a 24.8% chance to proc slash up from 4.9% (before elements and Hunter Munitions), and gives you a much higher chance to proc viral which is important for slash builds.

Nope, hunter munitions depends only from critical chance, and you don't need viral on rubico.

[rapt0rman]

3 minutes ago, Peter said:

Nope, hunter munitions depends only from critical chance, and you don't need viral on rubico.

Hunter Munitions also doesn't replace your base chance to proc slash, they stack. And if you don't use viral, then you'll still have a higher chance to proc slash (though it's status chance isn't that good without 60/60 mods).

Edited October 1, 2018 by rapt0rman

[Peter]

5 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

Hunter Munitions also doesn't replace your base chance to proc slash, they stack. And if you don't use viral, then you'll still have a higher chance to proc slash.

Hunter Munitions need only a critical hit to have 30% proc chance, don't matter your status chance or amount of status, and the slash dmg isn't affected by -impact/+impact mods.

On Tiberon Prime is a good idea to have -physical dmg, but for Rubico -dmg = -dmg, and viral is not needed here.

 

-Impact isn't a good idea for Rubico, you will lose a lot of damage against Corpus and Fortuna in the future.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Peter

[rapt0rman]

20 minutes ago, Peter said:

Hunter Munitions need only a critical hit to have 30% proc chance, don't matter your status chance or amount of status, and the slash dmg isn't affected by -impact/+impact mods.

On Tiberon Prime is a good idea to have -physical dmg, but for Rubico -dmg = -dmg, and viral is not needed here.

That ONLY applies to procs from Hunter Munitions, which as I said doesn't replace your regular chance to proc slash, they stack. It's not like 30% by itself is amazing and can't be improved upon.

If you're going to bother using a -impact riven, you're going to be using viral, plain and simple. If you aren't then it's not really applicable.

If you specialise the Rubico Prime for slash procs, it won't be viable for things immune to slash procs, that's undeniable. Other then that, it still does exactly what it's supposed to do for everything else.

Also the entire point of slash builds is that they bypass armor and shields, impact vs shields for Corpus is irrelevant when you're dealing damage directly to health.

Edited October 1, 2018 by rapt0rman

[Blade_Wolf_16]

il y a 43 minutes, -NR-Zodiac a dit :

with lets say 100% impact you get other Damage Types to proc more often 
 

On a wep with little to no Status Chance, does it really matter? I'd rather have more damage than one Corro proc every 30-40 sec.

[(PSN)Valar_Morgoolis]

42 minutes ago, Peter said:

Hunter Munitions need only a critical hit to have 30% proc chance, don't matter your status chance or amount of status, and the slash dmg isn't affected by -impact/+impact mods.

On Tiberon Prime is a good idea to have -physical dmg, but for Rubico -dmg = -dmg, and viral is not needed here.

 

-Impact isn't a good idea for Rubico, you will lose a lot of damage against Corpus and Fortuna in the future.

Slash/poison/gas > impact when dealing with corpus any day

[Peter]

51 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

That ONLY applies to procs from Hunter Munitions, which as I said doesn't replace your regular chance to proc slash, they stack. It's not like 30% by itself is amazing and can't be improved upon.

If you're going to bother using a -impact riven, you're going to be using viral, plain and simple. If you aren't then it's not really applicable.

If you specialise the Rubico Prime for slash procs, it won't be viable for things immune to slash procs, that's undeniable. Other then that, it still does exactly what it's supposed to do for everything else.

Also the entire point of slash builds is that they bypass armor and shields, impact vs shields for Corpus is irrelevant when you're dealing damage directly to health.

Just do not forget - impact are good only for builds focused on Viral + Slash, any situation out of this and you will be doing a downgrade on the weapon, and Rubico itself don't, and Rubico does not need Viral to hit hitkill with slash.

About corpus, is much better to run Radiation + Impact instead Viral + Slash, radiation is a universal element against corpus and the impact is very strong (and useful) against robotics and enemies with shields (corpus again), and does not depend on any chance to activate.

While viral causes normal damage in robotics and the slash has reduced damage of 25%, not to mention that they are 30% of activating the slash effect.

51 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

Also the entire point of slash builds is that they bypass armor and shields, impact vs shields for Corpus is irrelevant when you're dealing damage directly to health.

Viral don't bypass shields, and on high level index you will suffer with slash build.

 

It is not worth taking the impact of Rubico, 

We are talking about the sniper with the worst SC of the game.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Peter

[Peter]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)AZN_RH said:

Slash/poison/gas > impact when dealing with corpus any day

It would be if there were no robotics, corpus are easy to kill, now try use gas / poison in a high level bursa for example.

Radiation + Impact is much better and does not depend on SC.

[(PSN)Valar_Morgoolis]

2 minutes ago, Peter said:

Just do not forget - impact are good only for builds focused on Viral + Slash, any situation out of this and you will be doing a downgrade on the weapon, and Rubico itself don't, and Rubico does not need Viral to hit hitkill with slash.

About corpus, is much better to run Radiation + Impact instead Viral + Slash, radiation is a universal element against corpus and the impact is very strong (and useful) against robotics and enemies with shields (corpus again), and does not depend on any chance to activate.

While viral causes normal damage in robotics and the slash has reduced damage of 25%, not to mention that they are 30% of activating the slash effect.

Viral don't bypass shields, and on high level index you will suffer with slash build.

 

It is not worth taking the impact of Rubico.

Viral does bypass shields as it effectively halfs the health, ignoring armor and shields. With this slash tics kill the enemy as they too ignore armor/shields

[Autongnosis]

il y a une heure, pbicez a dit :

because according to my knowledge that is like 90% damage loss.

It isnt. As with every physical damage modifier, it only modifies that damage type and not the base damage. 

Basically a 100 dmg gun with 90 impact and two 90% elementals will do 280 damage. If you have a -100% impact riven it will deal 190 damage, not 28. Depending on what you're up against the damage loss might be basically insignificant. 

[vvhorus]

3 hours ago, pbicez said:

so i saw this guy selling CC CD MS -impact rubico for like 20k

I stopped reading here...

[JohnKable]

imho if you really want to do reliable slash procs rubico isnt the weapon for you. 

Assuming you can reach something like 60% total chance of slash proc/hit using a neg impact riven and hunters munitions thats still bad (bad as slash proc wep) since there are multiple weapons that can do the job just far better without handiccapping yourself cutting a great chunk of damage with that riven.

to me slash is far overrated. Any high tier weapon with a riven is more than enough for any content in the starchart, sorties etc. and if you are going for an endurance run, usually 4xcp and well modded viral weapons are more than enough (and probably youll allso team up accordingly and eventually just use power combination to do the kills instead of shooting)

__EDIT: by saying slash is ovverrated i also agree that is undeniably the best phisical damage. period. But not that good to squeeze it into any weapon. Same as bane mods, they do the job but sometimes i see people fitting those mods into weapons that end up really ruined by that.

Edited October 1, 2018 by JohnKable

[Peter]

3 hours ago, pbicez said:

so i saw this guy selling CC CD MS -impact rubico for like 20k on the tradechat yesterday.im just wondering won't that - 100% impact make the riven literally worthless?i mean 90% of rubico damage is on impact and -100% impact means 90% dmg loss right?or did i get something wrong here?

Well, I just say that -Impact in the rubico is a trap, the only ones happy with -Impact will be the sellers because they profit a lot with this urban legend.

There are weapons that look better with 100% -Impact, but this is not Rubico case.

And for Slash procs i personally prefer Vectis Prime, 30% SC/CC, fast reload/fire rate and that's all.

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by Peter

[Dreddeth]

Well, do you want a gimmick build that's useless for half the things you'd take the Rubico for, like Eidolons, and doesn't have enough status chance to be considered reliable anyway (seriously, the Prime has the 2nd lowest base status chance of all Snipers, just a bit higher than the vanilla, like it's screaming "Your Bleed gimmick build is sub-optimal on me!"), or do you want a good Sniper Rifle?

Setting aside the niche utility of removing part of a weapon's I/P/S damage, the Rubico Prime has a base status chance of 16%, which with two 60/60 mods and Split Chamber only gets as high as 56%. 56% is actually viable for an Automatic, but not for a Semi-Auto with a rare ammo type and no AoE, especially compared to the other big three, with the Lanka and Vulkar Wraith sitting at 78% and the Vectis Prime at 87% with the same three mods.

You'll probably need a second or even third shot to actually get the ball rolling with both Viral and Bleed, which will take time you don't necessarily have as the DoT ticks down, whereas a straight up crit build modded to exploit enemy weaknesses as opposed to specific procs will only take 1 or 2 depending on whether your first is a crit, and will kill it then and there right up to the point that you'd be better off heading to Extraction and starting another run.

This is because modding for the appropriate damage type doesn't just grant bonus damage, but against armor specifically also ignores a percentage of that armor equal to the damage bonus. Because this is happening with every hit, it is by definition more reliable than flipping a coin for procs, and because it is being dealt "up front" rather than over time, your target won't continue to fight after you've shot it enough times to kill it. You could keep firing with your Bleed build to speed things up with more up front damage and procs, but at that point you're using more of your rare ammo than a conventional crit build would, and can't claim greater efficiency.

To fully explain damage bonuses vs. armor, Corrosive ignores 75% of a target's Ferrite Armor and deals 75% more damage vs. the remaining 25%. Similarly, Radiation ignores 75% of a target's Alloy Armor and deals 75% more damage vs. the remaining 25%. This is why Radiation is so popular in the Arena modes, where even the Corpus have Alloy Armor under their shields. Viral, on the other hand, is subject to Armor's modifier on account of being neutral to both, and Slash would be literal garbage against Armor on account of damage penalties if it weren't for Bleed. With a Viral + Bleed build, you are thus sacrificing a significant chunk of burst DPS, which is what Sniper Rifles are for, to gain something resembling sustained DPS, which in the case of the Rubico/Prime, would be better provided by a gun with more relevant base stats.

Source: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage

[Autongnosis]

Le 01/10/2018 à 21:38, Peter a dit :

Well, I just say that -Impact in the rubico is a trap, the only ones happy with -Impact will be the sellers because they profit a lot with this urban legend.

There are weapons that look better with 100% -Impact, but this is not Rubico case.

 

Le 01/10/2018 à 22:01, Dreddeth a dit :

Well, do you want a gimmick build that's useless for half the things you'd take the Rubico for, like Eidolons, and doesn't have enough status chance to be considered reliable anyway (seriously, the Prime has the 2nd lowest base status chance of all Snipers, just a bit higher than the vanilla, like it's screaming "Your Bleed gimmick build is sub-optimal on me!"), or do you want a good Sniper Rifle?

Depends on the level range and the mitigation. Against a 99% armour mitigated target, your base Impact damage accounts for barely 3.5% of your total damage after armour modifiers. It's not always about skewing the elemental procs, it's about how good the riven is and the levels you plan on using it for, and whether you fight stuff armoured or work to get that armour off.

Basically, it's not that simple.