Let's Talk: Content Drought - What DE can learn from this

[MartianGHunter]

Hi there, Martian here

Quick TLDR: Basically want to open up a discussion on people takes on content drought and what DE can do better after the Fortuna release to prevent this from happening again.

Okay now into the meat of this discussion with my own views on the matter.

Firstly I have been playing Warframe for 5 years ( 2 years on PS4 when I was in high school) and 3 years( whilst studying at University at moment). Basically I can be categorized as a casual as I have never had the time to heavily invest myself into spending hours everyday playing rather I take my time enjoy content when I can and log in when I can. That being said I do consider myself a veteran at MR22 I fully understand this game and its mechanics I have played every piece of content this game has to offer except (Jordas Verdict sadly), and I have this game as a free to play player and as well as a supporting paying player(Prime Accesses and plat purchases). Now that you know my background I will explain what I think has caused the content drought and how it can fixed for better release schedule in my opinion.

Firstly: Putting all your eggs in 1 basket.

This is DEs biggest mistake and the release we have had a massive content drought. They decided to place all their resources into Fortuna and by so doing have neglected other promising projects such KingPin system and stopped releasing bi weekly and monthly content such as tactical alerts. By so doing they have left the community of players that are up to date isolated and starving for content to do and goals to chase.

Secondly: Lack of variation in the few recurring events we have

The more consistent appearance of Plague Star and Ghouls shows that there is potential for such recurring events to liven up the world of Warframe much like the Fomorian and Razorback events. But the biggest issue with these is their repetitive nature. Once you have completed any of these events its almost pointless to do them again when they return because there is no variance or spice to them. This could have been easily alleviated if there was 5 variations to each of these events such that when they reappear its a different boss fight maybe with slightly differing mechanics and rewards pools thus giving these events a bigger life span so when it cycles every 4 weeks at least you know the event wont be the same as it was the last time you played it. Giving players more reason to play the event when they reoccur(obviously once you have run all variations you wont have anything to to do but at least you know that its different bit of game play when they occur not same rehashed event).

Thirdly: Lack of rewarding challenging game modes

Now take this with a grain of salt this is 100% biased. I was not a fan of the original raids though i did play LOR both versions multiple times and completed them. My biggest issue with them was their mechanics didn't fit Warframe and I would have loved them to have more suiting mechanics that matched the fast paced gun-play that Warframe offers. Hence I would have rather they reworked them into better dungeon boss battle based challenges that could incorporate game play implements from mobile defense, defense, survival, excavation, spy ending with a boss fight of some sort all while are scaled and capped to around level 100 - 120 (I believe at this level enemies are beefy enough not to die in 1 hit but not having insane amount of damage that you are one shot). ESO and Eidolon hunts were step in the right direction but they are not without their flaws and it would be amazing if more game modes that required a bit more investment in game and rewarded players accordingly for their effort.

Lastly: PvP that suits Warframe

Now before you say it that Warframe is PvE and has no place for PvP, I think this is a little shallow minded. I believe that a PvP mode that could work for Warframe is less of a players killing players but rather players competing against other players in a series of challenges that test parkour, aiming, use of abilities to complete challenges in teams of 2, 4 or even 8 in a game mode similar to Destiny's Gambit (its a good game mode yes with flaws that could work for Warframe) with its own unique Warframe twist.

To conclude this is my view on the matter would like to know your views as well. And also I am scared to say that with long awaited release of Fortuna and no other content released to help cushion its arrival that this will probably be very disappointing for those with high hopes for this open-world.

Thank you for reading, 

Martian out.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

The only thing to learn from content droughts is: don't let them happen.

making tac alerts and events takes time too, especially when you consider they try to introduce new things in these events, and they also have to be bug tested, because people understandably freak out if a limited-time event isn't working properly. lot easier to just push the Ghoul button or the Plague Star button instead, as those are already in-game. does it get stale? of course it does, but it's either this or absolutely nothing at all. at least DE are trying, and they are aware of the drought themselves, but it can't really be avoided when all the Devs are putting Fortuna together, likely including devs that normally handle other parts of the game as well.

as for PvP, a rework for Conclave is another matter entirely, and I don't see DE doing it as there's no visible demand. most people I've seen share the same view on PvP as I do, which is no thanks. PvP lovers are a microscopic portion of Warframe's fanbase, even at their most vocal they are hardly noticed, so unless the Devs make a conscious decision to try and revitalize PvP, it's likely never gonna happen. it can also be argued that there's so many other games out there with better PvP that you may as well play those when you want some competitive play. warframe is a PvE game at it's core, and that's the way I and I'm sure many others would like it to stay as.

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

making tac alerts and events takes time too

They do, but they could certainly repeat some of them.

For example, do you remember the Tac Alert where you had sonic fast Grineer? That was a load of fun, and unless the coding for it was completely cut out, it shouldn't be too difficult to re-implement.

Perhaps I'm biased, I found that one really fun.

[Syln]

Content Drought is a great thing ! You can take a break, play something else and comeback !

[(PSN)robotwars7]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

For example, do you remember the Tac Alert where you had sonic fast Grineer?

that one was before my time I think. I started in 2015, and never fought super-fast Grineer. there was one alert where they put in giant Manics with Machetes though, that one was fun.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

that one was before my time I think. I started in 2015, and never fought super-fast Grineer. there was one alert where they put in giant Manics with Machetes though, that one was fun.

Hmmm, maybe. It was definitely one of the earlier ones.

What about the Halloween one, with the saw-armed Ancients? Some of these Tac alerts are begging for a repeat.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

What about the Halloween one, with the saw-armed Ancients?

ah yes, I remember that one, they used the Ripkas sound effects on them.. it was pretty spooky.they should add in an infested chainsaw weapon for us, would be pretty neat IMO. 

I'd like to see Black Seed Scourge come back, nowadays we can't fight a fully grown Juggernaut outside of the Simulacrum, and I want to show some newbies what a REAL juggernaut looks like.

[Xolgys]

i think they should consider spreading content out over the whole year instead of bundling all of it. sure easier said than done but it would solve it a bit. also they could do more events like they used to. the automatic events like fomorian or ghouls/plague star are too repetitive and dont bring anything new anymore, events used to bring new stuff like mods which i, speaking for myself, do really miss. we could use some more, creative mods, especially augments but thats a more specific matter i suppose..

[Firetempest]

Oh this again.

Well there won't be much drought next year because they took the time for the weapon reballancing already. Since they will never truly fix scaling and mandatory mods.

Then everyone can be indignant about the bandaids over bandaids solutions next year. Because everyone can't be pleased.

[Ragingwasabi]

i think the content drought is somewhat fine because theyre releasing updates as big and jaw dropping as fortuna and railjack . i mean holy S#&$ railjack is insane
 

POE, fortuna and railjack are the big updates that really put DE and warframe on the radar of games media and gamers. i dont think people would talk half as much about warframe if DE stuck with releasing little tactical alerts every month or so and never released the big open world stuff

Edited October 3, 2018 by Ragingwasabi

[FlusteredFerret]

Well according to Steve on the last dev stream, they were over-ambitious with Fortuna and Railjack and didn't realise that the scope of these projects would basically suck up all their resources for a lot longer than they realised. They basically said it made them "constipated" i.e. unable to move on any of the other stuff they wanted to put out.

Now they've got this under their belt, they should have a much better idea of what any future major updates will require of them...so hopefully they will be able to map out content releases in a more measured way.

They've been acutely aware of the problem and hopefully will take these lessons on board for future updates.

 

[Ragingwasabi]

i wander if this is time to grow their team

[GinKenshin]

3 minutes ago, Ragingwasabi said:

i wander if this is time to grow their team

Imo this is DE’s number 1 issue. The game keep getting bigger every year, but the staff is hardly getting bigger...sure, the equipment and tech is, but that can only do so much 

 

  They are sorta aware of it, like when telltale company disbanded, they offered jobs (though it seemed more of a curtesy and standing by them than focusing on getting more people). They’re working on it but it’s obviously isn’t important for them, they need to dedicate staff to it 

 

   Iirc Steve said the team is a family, and I know it’s hard to welcome new members in, but they need to do a reality check here and look at the big picture. If they really love the game, then they should drop the ‘we can handle it’ attitude and make the right call, by the game and the players 

[MartianGHunter]

20 minutes ago, Ragingwasabi said:

DE stuck with releasing little tactical alerts every month or so and never released the big open world stuff

I am not saying DE should just do small Tac Alerts but they are good to have what's wrong with events cyclying on a monthly cycle with different modifiers and bosses just to give players more to do. Big updates are good but here is a fact Fortuna will drop and at best t will provide people with 2months at max content and after that we wait for RailJack which will at lastest drop beginning of summer next year.

What I am proposing is DE have more re playable events and introduce more game modes to give people more to do during breaks.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Well I am about 11 days from login 1000 and I got rid of every frame that's not a Prime...and I feel like I'm back in year 1 and 2...and I'm actually pretty happy now as a vet.... I forgot how much fun the earlier frames were, so being forced to use them and them alone has breathed some new life into game for me...plus my wallet is happier...so many frames with so many skins it can get overwhelming...now it's slowed down...I now rather wait for the Prime Version while maxing and tossing the first variant...and I know...don't have a heart attack and go DUDE???!!!...it's okay...It works for me...because I can just save up for that new Prime and all the skins associated with it..instead of jumping all over the place.

The content drought had me wandering my ship or dojo...so I tried Monster Hunter World and had some real fun with it...but like all AAA games you know your time is eventually wasted due to the next title coming as it's replacement..Warframe on the other hand is like weightlifting for the next big meet...only the next meet has been awhile. Chroma Prime pulled me back in for now....but, I don't know...I am not really happy with where the game is right now...The new frames and weapons are pretty boring...if you can't give it good stats..at least make them like Syndicate weapons with some sort of fun FUN proc or ability...something unique...a reason to keep it around..or use...some absurb synergy...anything cool at this point....Maybe new weapons should be old weapons with some sort of mutation...you run through a tiles and find room like the music room on Lua and you can change say a Plasmor into a Phantasm...never gonna happen...but you know "sharing"...

But as a vet I'm just weightlifting waiting till Fortuna while solo farming the hell out of Chroma relics and Nergigante tails...

 

[mikakor]

1 hour ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

like to see Black Seed Scourge come back, nowadays we can't fight a fully grown Juggernaut outside of the Simulacrum, and I want to show some newbies what a REAL juggernaut looks like.

There is another kind of juggernaut...? o.o

[mikakor]

2 minutes ago, Escapements said:

its called behemoth , the hallowed one is just a behemoth juggernaut with pumpkin head .

Ho, that xD it's not that terrifying. Except if in the alert it was level 150 or something? 

[Atekron]

2 hours ago, Syln said:

and comeback !

to empty game, with 30 minutes matchmaking time and 2-3 pink rhinos with sary syandana in a relay

Edited October 3, 2018 by Atekron

[Guest]

I think DE should take some lessons from recent free to play successes. Hate to say this - but something like Fortnite. They have regular seasons of content, introduce new game modes and also have regular cosmetics that are constantly in the public eye. I know the sizes of the companies are different but hear me out.

DE's big problem is putting their eggs in one basket with one giant piece of content as OP has rightly pointed out.

On Twitter, I am regularly seeing updates on what's happening to Fortnite. It's always in the news and it's always in front of peoples faces. 

When Fortuna was announced - sure, loads of coverage. But now what? There's nothing. And that's a problem.

These open worlds should be canned after Fortuna. Or they should be supplemented by a regular stream of other content.

Because let's face it - what's going to happen once Fortuna is out? Everyone is going to be excited and the players will return. But after all the grinding is done, the map has been explored and all the weapons have been crafted? They will leave again.

Unless you keep their attention, their interest and their minds in the game with more content. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

And on another note: new content they have put out that wasn't an open world has honestly been half-baked. Because they are putting so much dang effort into these expansive worlds.

Were you satisfied with the Pyrus Project? What was supposed to be a visible effort from all players working together to build the relay? It was fun, sure - but it felt like a single player quest and nothing like they originally hyped.

What about the Sacrifice? That didn't hold a candle to the War Within or the Second Dream.

DE - Fortuna looks amazing and I do enjoy POE. But you are creating the wrong kind of content for a free to play game.

[Syln]

il y a 49 minutes, Atekron a dit :

to empty game, with 30 minutes matchmaking time and 2-3 pink rhinos with sary syandana in a relay

We don't play the same game then and frankly yours doesn't seem appealing :3

[mikakor]

3 minutes ago, Escapements said:

it actually was terrifying game-play wise , here is a copy paste from the wiki

  Hide contents

• This alert features the Halloween Nightmare Mode, which has the following restrictions:
  • Players will be unable to use their weapons, Companions, or Warframe powers.
  • All players start with only a set amount of Health and Shields regardless of the selected Warframe: The first mission gives players only 100 Health and 100 Shields, while the second Endurance mission gives only 50 Health and Shields. Players are also unable to recover or receive Energy.
  • Attacks are limited to melee using the Warframe's hands and feet with Sparring-type movesets, and damage dealt by Maneuvers like Bullet Jump. While the players's melee attacks can benefit from the Melee Combo Counter, players are unable to use Channeling.
  • Weapon and Warframe Mods are disabled during the alert. The only exceptions are Auras and Exilusmods, whose effects remain active.
  • Players will be unable to access their Gear menu during the mission. Hotkeys will also be disabled, though Ciphers can still be used from inside the hacking screen.
• Both the first mission and the second Endurance mission is an Assassination mission (although labelled Sabotage) where players must head to a designated location on the map while surviving or avoiding Infested. At a certain point, players must unlock a door with two receptacles on it by finding Power Cells on the tileset where said door is located, with said Power Cells being given by hacking two control consoles. Bringing the Power Cells to the receptacles will open the locked door.
  • The objective location houses a large Jack O' Lantern, which will spawn a Jack O'Naut, -an InfestedJuggernaut that has a Jack O' Lantern for a head- which players must kill. As players are unable to use weapons or powers, the only way to defeat the Jack O'Naut is by destroying tall explosive containers consisting of three stacked Jack O' Lanterns, which will release a Fire Blast around the immediate area that can damage the Jack O'Naut. Once killed, players can immediately head to extraction.
    • Luring the Jack O'Naut into charging into explosive barrels is risky but does good damage.
• The second Endurance mission also has the side objective of finding three Resource Caches, which provide additional special rewards including Aura and Nightmare Mods.
• Both alert missions take place on Earth, on a special version of the Grineer Forest tileset that features thick, orange fog that limits player vision.

 

Holy space mom... Now THAT'S something different from the poor you get in jordas quest... HOLY S#&$!!! GIMME THAT!!! I WANT THAT!! 

( and yes, it's scary, finally, you're right xD )

[Kemenril]

1-year player here. (Anniversary in 17 days!)

So for the record, I'm nowhere near this "drought" I keep hearing about (still soooooo much to do), though I can appreciate that people could very well be in one: I'm already MR17 and don't play more than an hour or so a day outside of weekends. So yeah, I'm approaching the point where in a year I could be in a drought. 

But looking at the pacing from my perspective, one year in, I like the big content chunks. They give the game measurably progressive momentum and feed interest from the outside. I joined because I kept reading about Plains of Eidolon, not because of iterative improvements. Now that I'm in the game, I understand where both sides are coming from. But we should try to understand the drive to grow the game and audience/playerbase. I think they've succeeded on that front. So if anything is learned from this, it's that they can do the BIG stuff pretty well (from a marketing perspective at any rate), and yes, I agree, now would be the time to focus on cleaning things up and growing the game for veterans. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Kemenril

[AFGNCAAP]

Given how much of the game is procedurally generated, I don't see why Tactical Alerts couldn't be turned into a sort of monthly/semi-monthly, multi-planet Sortie. DE could associate a difficulty metric based on planet combination, enemy compositions, and mission conditions. The rewards for completing the Alert could then be scaled based on the metric, potentially even rewarding special versions of pre-existing weapons/mods.

I mean, this game is basically Space-Ninja Diablo. So why not lean into that? If DE made a special table of exotic cosmetic effects, damage effects, and stats that could be applied to the Tactical Alert weapons/mods, that would probably get people to log in and stay engaged.

[(PSN)purpleskullgamin]

4 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

I'd like to see Black Seed Scourge come back, nowadays we can't fight a fully grown Juggernaut outside of the Simulacrum, and I want to show some newbies what a REAL juggernaut looks like.

Do you mean like the juggernaut behemoth that's currently only available in the Jordas questlline? Or something even bigger?

Appearently so, did a little more reading of page one of this forum post and apparently it was a special version of the behemoth with a pumpkin hat?

Edited October 3, 2018 by (PS4)purpleskullgamin