Can we get rid of this mobile like time gate?

[SeriousBread]

3 minutes ago, Oreades said:

I could see them as a one time thing like the starter plat to help take the edge off but if they ever actually made it into the game I highly doubt they would be a farmable item. 

There really aren't a lot of "empty" potentially recurring plat sinks in the game and having a farmable item that closed one of the only real sinks seems like it would compound plat inflation. Not that I think Rushing takes a lot of plat out of the game but it takes more than none.

I guess it would all depend on the stats of what percentage of plat is spent on rush. If it's low enough that something like a 120k Rep item wouldn't harm it then that would be ideal.

 

Also I don't think DE wants to rely on plat sinks. Sure they have the mod pack cards, but there is that story about them removing a feature because a player dumped too much plat into it so quickly. That's just my hope for DE though.

Edited October 8, 2018 by SeriousBread
added stuff about plat sinks

[CosmicHermitCrab]

7 minutes ago, SeriousBread said:

You didn't even read two and a half lines! He even mentions making it only work on things with a timer of 10 hour or more. 

It's midnight here, he should make it 12 hours or more, or maybe even 24 hours. Crafting can go up to 3 days...the newb still has to spend tokens wisely.

Anyways, this token idea still embraces the rush system...

5 minutes ago, SeriousBread said:

Also I don't think DE wants to rely on plat sinks. Sure they have the mod pack cards, but there is that story about them removing a feature because a player dumped too much plat into it so quickly. That's just my hope for DE though.

Yeah...those mod packs...one of the biggest newb traps ever...I never bought a single one, why does it exist, to rip us off.

Edited October 8, 2018 by CrystalSpark

[SeriousBread]

2 minutes ago, CrystalSpark said:

It's midnight here, he should make it 12 hours or more, or maybe even 24 hours. Crafting can go up to 3 days...the newb still has to spend tokens wisely.

You could still make an attempt to hear, if you want to be heard. I would think that DE would come up with a solution. Maybe exclude everything but weapons, and frames. This would still mean you would need to make frame parts and only rush the actual frame with the token.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

The more I'm starting to think about it, the token system or a system similar to it, is actually a pretty good way to rush items without spending plat, but also requiring the player an alternative way of farming.

15 minutes ago, Oreades said:

There really aren't a lot of "empty" potentially recurring plat sinks in the game and having a farmable item that closed one of the only real sinks seems like it would compound plat inflation. Not that I think Rushing takes a lot of plat out of the game but it takes more than none.

This is a potential problem though...

Edited October 8, 2018 by CrystalSpark

[SeriousBread]

A compromise is still change. If there are ways to avoid the time gate asides from throwing plat at it, then it would definitely be more player friendly. Perhaps a limited amount of instant crafts, and then the rest timed. I'm enjoying this brainstorm.

[CosmicHermitCrab]

Should the tokens be tradeable, too? lmao, players buying time

Edited October 8, 2018 by CrystalSpark

[SeriousBread]

The game does already pull some inspiration from MMO's, and some let you buy sub time with ingame currency. 

[Xarteros]

I actually like the time gating in a certain sense. It means once your thing is on and crafting, you are prompted to go and get something else done in the meantime. Whenever I bring a friend into the game and they start crafting their first new frame, I get them to spend the time farming up their next frame and the resulting resources. By the time they assemble the right amount of stuff, they've normally waited long enough to start playing their new frame, in which they can start leveling it up whilst farming more resources for a new weapon or something.

Not a huge fan of it, and there are lots of ways to improve it without making the whole system obscene.
 

I'd suggest this:

1. Allow queuing of items in Foundry, as long as you have the resources up-front.
2. Each additional item in the queue builds faster than the previous one (much like crafting in GW2) up to some form of cap. It might take 1hr to craft X item, but it might only take 6 hours to craft 20 of them.
3. Bring in credit costs to rush items within a certain remaining duration. It's dumb that you can spend 1p to rush an item that only takes 60 seconds to build. Anything with a duration of 6hrs or less should be credit-rushable.

I don't like the OP idea of spending plat to pay for the resources. If anything, I'd prefer a plat discount on store-bought weapons if you provide the resources it would have required to build (Maybe a 200p gun only costs 150p if you have all the resources?)

[DeaHamlet]

I prefer the current method of waiting with an optional plat rush. I don't want to have to grind more just to craft after all the grind to get the pieces. 

I don't see a financial motive why DE would add another grind item on top of the current two options. You can grind for plat if you prefer to not wait. 

Also I'd prefer for DE to make money this way instead of other alternatives. I've only been paying attention to forum but pretty much I have seen in the last month demands to remove majority of plat income outside prime packs. 

Give colors for free. In that vein, why grind for dojo colors. 

Give non-plat way to rush crafting. (yours) 

Remove mod packs from market. 

Remove endo from market. 

Remove credit from market. 

Stop making so much fashion frame and give us "actual content". 

So how are they to make money if they listen to all of you? Rush for plat is only second in petty request after the "too much fashion frame". 

[Twilight053]

It's a compromise for a game costing nothing. If it's any consolation, the longest a build time can get is only 3 days, far shorter than most mobile time gates.

[kgabor]

Maybe don't replace it.

But it would be nice as an alternative: You want to skip 12 hours of your frame build time? Play 1 hour in the Index/Hieracon or Mot or some other of the more fun nodes!

I don't think it would be worth wasting the time on solely just for skipping build times, but impatient people would have an option that way over spending horrible amounts of plats.

Or something that would be even better if you could grind for rush discounts: It would incentivise plat sales as people who otherwise wouldn't spend plats on rushing as rush prices are unbalanced would start spending as discounted rushes would become affordable.

Let's say you're building a frame and to skip the 3 days wait, you could grind a hard Survival mission and the amount of time spent would increase the quality of the discount for up to 70-80-90% or so meaning that the frame you would have to rush for let's say 200 plats could be rushed for just 60 plats instead. (imo. the discounts capped at 70% for an 1 hour grind would make the most sense, anything over that would be too much)

 

 

[DeaHamlet]

1 hour ago, kgabor said:

Maybe don't replace it.

But it would be nice as an alternative: You want to skip 12 hours of your frame build time? Play 1 hour in the Index/Hieracon or Mot or some other of the more fun nodes!

I don't think it would be worth wasting the time on solely just for skipping build times, but impatient people would have an option that way over spending horrible amounts of plats.

Or something that would be even better if you could grind for rush discounts: It would incentivise plat sales as people who otherwise wouldn't spend plats on rushing as rush prices are unbalanced would start spending as discounted rushes would become affordable.

Let's say you're building a frame and to skip the 3 days wait, you could grind a hard Survival mission and the amount of time spent would increase the quality of the discount for up to 70-80-90% or so meaning that the frame you would have to rush for let's say 200 plats could be rushed for just 60 plats instead. (imo. the discounts capped at 70% for an 1 hour grind would make the most sense, anything over that would be too much)

 

 

I could get the plat for rushing a 3 day built in less than an hour. Why do you need to be sending people to index when we already have the alternative to grind in order to rush?!?! 

Slap on some rads, run capture fissures and bam. Or go run some spy. Or use my excess standing with my syndicates to buy mods and sell them. 

Not to mention farming for plat can be done ahead of time rather than something you have to do once you started a craft as suggested. 

 

Still seeing zero reason why people are allergic to farming plat and instead want to grind "something else". And people want developer time spent on this... 

 

Mind blown.

[kgabor]

36 minutes ago, DeaHamlet said:

Still seeing zero reason why people are allergic to farming plat and instead want to grind "something else". And people want developer time spent on this... 

It would just serve as another way to make people want to spend on the game in the form of an extra reward after spending some time in one of the endless game modes(not necessarily the Index), which is good for DE as they get paid more and good for players as they are given more options.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

13 hours ago, SeriousBread said:

I know that in our world time is money, but our world also doesn't involve ships that travel faster than the speed of sound.

Huh? I mean I know its been a while since the concordes got scrapped but they were a thing. 

[Teridax68]

As a few other players mentioned, there's a lot of deliberate inconvenience in Warframe, which includes time gates with crafting, excessive grinding, and whatnot, but this is also pretty common fare for a free-to-play game. I think there's an argument to be made that it would be better if DE focused their income around cosmetics and genuinely desirable options, rather than forcing the player to pay to solve a problem the developers themselves created, but that kind of argument itself presumes that more cosmetics and less inconvenience would be able to make up for the loss of income from time gates, which is a fairly conjectural argument considering how we don't have the game or company's financial data.

[Tsukinoki]

15 hours ago, SeriousBread said:

It is just awful. Awful awful awful. It's probably the one mechanic that I feel has no place in this game. Crafting times. This is a game about going fast, and going towards something. You spend up to hours grinding for materials, sometimes days if you don't have many hours to play. Then after all of that; boom. Twelve hours for your own ship to make a sword. Oh you wanted a second one? Another twelve hours please. Oh you want to hold them both at the same time? That's gonna cost you a forma (another time gated crafting item), and twelve more hours. Unless you throw money into your ship that is.

I know that in our world time is money, but our world also doesn't involve ships that travel faster than the speed of sound. But you know what money can buy is in the real world? Resources. My proposal is get rid of the crafting time gate, it's unintuitive and boring. Grinding is at least interactive to a degree that the player can control more or less. Replace the current "Rush" mechanic with something like "synthesize" and let us pay for the materials with platinum. Even make the cost 10p less than the item cost from the store to encourage players spending just that liiiitle bit more, and skip the blueprint and buy the item with potato included. It's not like credits mean anything with the index anyway. This could mean a massive rebalance in materials, adding some sinks as well for some players.

TL;DR: I don't want a time gate, and feel like waiting could be replaced with grinding.

 

_{edited a bit for clerity}

One thing you're missing with this:
The timegates in this game act as a player retention model in a few ways.  And it works quite well and is why a lot of F2P games have wait times for energy/crafting/whatever.

Essentially if you build a shiny new gun that will be ready in 12 hours and don't rush it you're looking forward to playing with that shiny new gun.  You'll be thinking of the game and will log in tomorrow going "Oh yeah, I have a shiny new thing to play with!"
It keeps warframe in your thoughts because you always have something to look forward to.
Same thing with the 3 day build time on frames.  You are thinking "I'll have something new to play with in a few days..." which builds excitement and keeps you coming back to the game.
Same thing with forma.

Its a calculated wall that works to keep the game in your thoughts and works to make the game part of a players daily routine.  After all if the game becomes part of your daily routine you are far less likely to drop it and more likely to sign in day after day after day.

Keeping recurrent player numbers high is one of the more important things for keeping a F2P game like WF alive.

The second way that it works for player retention is that it slows down the player to reduce burnout time.  After all if you had everything instantly and played through everything now then you're more likely to burn yourself out and lose interest in the game than if you had waits and pauses thrown into the game.
And your "massive resource rebalance" would only serve to create more burnout...after all if they dramatically up the resources that every item takes what is a new player supposed to do besides burn themselves out grinding?  Meanwhile older players wouldn't notice it at all even if material prices went up 100x.

Without this mechanic you would actually be hurting player retention...and for what benefit?  So that people who can't be bothered to wait, and yet don't want to rush the item, can have everything now?
That might sound good to you as a player, but that's not necessarily good for the game as a whole.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Tsukinoki

[Dabnician]

16 hours ago, (PS4)xtharbadx said:

Yeah, why not just give us all the gear already, and fast, fully ranked and potatoed. Oh, and all the mods fully upgraded, we need those too. On my Inbox is fine.

And while you're at it DE, add a button "TO WIN GAME PRESS HERE" so we can be done with it.

honestly game companies should just release the "I Win" 0-day DLC for every game. Just pay 59.99 + Tax and then download the game, before you even start pop a message that says "Do you want to pay another 59.99+Tax to beat the game?" and if the player clicks yes it just plays the credits with a little bit of code that adds the gamer tag they played with under "Special thanks", done. They can also release the "I Win: Super Special Edition" for 99.99 + Tax that also unlocks the achievements so they don't have to do that either.
 

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

16 hours ago, ShinTechG said:

The time gates on crafting are there so you don't burn through content too fast. 

And that's the the truth. Instead of build Times, DE should consider finding ways to have content gated that actually involve playing the game. Even mr having is better.

[Dabnician]

2 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

As a few other players mentioned, there's a lot of deliberate inconvenience in Warframe, which includes time gates with crafting, excessive grinding, and whatnot, but this is also pretty common fare for a free-to-play game. I think there's an argument to be made that it would be better if DE focused their income around cosmetics and genuinely desirable options, rather than forcing the player to pay to solve a problem the developers themselves created, but that kind of argument itself presumes that more cosmetics and less inconvenience would be able to make up for the loss of income from time gates, which is a fairly conjectural argument considering how we don't have the game or company's financial data.

Leyou (The parent company that owns DE) had a Gross profit of 110.7mil USD last year with a revenue of 166.7mil USD, so it costs 56mil/2017 to run warframe for all platforms, +The Amazing Eternals, + Startrek, + Sword Coast Legends, + Survived By. Along with any costs/profits from Splash Damage Ltd(which is the other company Leyou) owns.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/84yuh6/breaking_warframe_just_had_a_record_breaking_year/

Amazing Eternals went defunct and all of the founders were refunded their money. Survived by is in CB.

They could increase profit if they released more items i could decorate my dojo/orbiter with, they could release skins that were previously only obtainable via quests/events via the store in a similar fashion to vaulted primes. My son picked up an anniversary skin for his excalibur i missed out getting on the xbox, id buy the for plat.

[SeriousBread]

3 minutes ago, Dabnician said:

Leyou (The parent company that owns DE) had a Gross profit of 110.7mil USD last year with a revenue of 166.7mil USD, so it costs 56mil/2017 to run warframe for all platforms, +The Amazing Eternals, + Startrek, + Sword Coast Legends, + Survived By. Along with any costs/profits from Splash Damage Ltd(which is the other company Leyou) owns.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/84yuh6/breaking_warframe_just_had_a_record_breaking_year/

Amazing Eternals went defunct and all of the founders were refunded their money. Survived by is in CB.

They could increase profit if they released more items i could decorate my dojo/orbiter with, they could release skins that were previously only obtainable via quests/events via the store in a similar fashion to vaulted primes. My son picked up an anniversary skin for his excalibur i missed out getting on the xbox, id buy the for plat.

See this is more or less my thoughts on what the ideal would be. I'm going to get some people mad here, but this game actually has a pretty similar game flow to League of Legends. We just have the abilities to increase the length or pace of the flow. It's not like when you unlock a new champion you have to wait 48 hours to use your new character. You probably grinded that long to get the champion anyway. You can buy the champion with real money, which is faster. Cosmetics can only be bought with real money. Their prices have been getting a bit bonkers but it's one of the friendlier versions of f2p that rivals Warframes.

 

14 minutes ago, (XB1)Architect Prime said:

And that's the the truth. Instead of build Times, DE should consider finding ways to have content gated that actually involve playing the game. Even mr having is better.

Then why can we pay to skip the time gate? It's not to avoid burnout, it's to keep free to play players coming back day after day. Someone who has money to burn could binge this entire game straight. The free to play can not. We have two ways to "fund" this game. Be a whale and be one of the 20% who buy large amounts of currency, or keep playing and showing investors that you have interest in the game.

[SeriousBread]

3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Huh? I mean I know its been a while since the concordes got scrapped but they were a thing. 

Did not see that. Meant light. Mb, time to go edit that.

[Teridax68]

12 minutes ago, Dabnician said:

Leyou (The parent company that owns DE) had a Gross profit of 110.7mil USD last year with a revenue of 166.7mil USD, so it costs 56mil/2017 to run warframe for all platforms, +The Amazing Eternals, + Startrek, + Sword Coast Legends, + Survived By. Along with any costs/profits from Splash Damage Ltd(which is the other company Leyou) owns.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/84yuh6/breaking_warframe_just_had_a_record_breaking_year/

Amazing Eternals went defunct and all of the founders were refunded their money. Survived by is in CB.

They could increase profit if they released more items i could decorate my dojo/orbiter with, they could release skins that were previously only obtainable via quests/events via the store in a similar fashion to vaulted primes. My son picked up an anniversary skin for his excalibur i missed out getting on the xbox, id buy the for plat.

From what you've just shown, it does then indeed seem like Warframe is generating profits hand over fist. I still think there are a few reservations, namely that the numbers we have are for a group of products, not just Warframe, and that even with insane profits, DE may still need to show growth in order to continue impressing Leyou and avoid reprisals (an all too common move when a game megacorporation sees one of its development studios slow down even a little), but overall, the picture being painted here is definitely not one of Warframe just barely scraping by. To some extent, I do think it would still be useful to know the full breakdown of Warframe's in-game revenue sources, but overall this does all seem to suggest that the studio could afford to start removing the deliberate inconveniences baked into the game, which appear to be much less necessary than they once were.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Teridax68

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

31 minutes ago, Dabnician said:

honestly game companies should just release the "I Win" 0-day DLC for every game. Just pay 59.99 + Tax and then download the game, before you even start pop a message that says "Do you want to pay another 59.99+Tax to beat the game?" and if the player clicks yes it just plays the credits with a little bit of code that adds the gamer tag they played with under "Special thanks", done. They can also release the "I Win: Super Special Edition" for 99.99 + Tax that also unlocks the achievements so they don't have to do that either.
 

Don't forget any additional DLC for $49.99 each to unlock all achievements for that specific pack.

[SeriousBread]

Just now, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

Don't forget any additional DLC for $49.99 each to unlock all achievements for that specific pack.

Need the sEAson pass. And btw there are 4 of them. Each $69.99 or $30.99 for each individual DLC in the sEAson which there are 3 in each.

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

4 minutes ago, SeriousBread said:

Need the sEAson pass. And btw there are 4 of them. Each $69.99 or $30.99 for each individual DLC in the sEAson which there are 3 in each.

The evil in this post is strong. I love it 🤣