FORMA REWORK

[SerpentBlack]

For a while now, forma has been used to place or change a polarity on a single slot to use mods for warframes, taking time and work to level up a warframe to even be able to use it, once, I feel like forma needs to be changed from this, it doesn't seem right, not in a game set in the future with devices that exemplify the future, and yet we got forma, the way I see in how they should work, is exactly how I first saw one of the options under actions in your arsenal upgrades for warframes, "SWAP POLARITY", I first saw this and thought, wow, I don't have to worry using a forma on a slot and picking the wrong polarity, I can swap it with this option, because I for a long time was nervous about using forma, (even left the game over it at one time) but that was not the case, forma should allow you to choose what polarity you want on a single slot whenever and for how many times you want, indefinitely, and with 3 config build saves, using a forma cripples the remaining 2 config build saves to have to build around that polarity you wanted on that single slot you used a forma on, leaving your choices restricted, I think forma needs to be changed, and thanks for reading this

[ShortCat]

1 hour ago, SerpentBlack said:

I feel like forma needs to be changed from this, it doesn't seem right, not in a game set in the future with devices that exemplify the future

Don't mix game setting and game mechanics.

2 hours ago, SerpentBlack said:

forma should allow you to choose what polarity you want on a single slot whenever and for how many times you want, indefinitely, and with 3 config build saves, using a forma cripples the remaining 2 config build saves to have to build around that polarity you wanted on that single slot you used a forma on, leaving your choices restricted, I think forma needs to be changed, and thanks for reading this

Trivialization and/or convenience is the wrong road to a fulfilling experience.

And try better punctuation and paragraph usage, your post is unpleasant to read.

[Teridax68]

My 2 main requests for Forma:

• Forma should no longer increase mod drain for mods that don't match the polarity. This is the main reason why people end up picking multiple of the same frame, because specializing into one setup locks out many others, with the problem worsening the more Forma one sinks in. This impedes diversity overall, and runs contrary to the goals set by the modding system in the first place, which is meant to offer freedom of customization and room for experimentation. It also makes little sense for Forma to carry a negative effect when it's a consumable item that takes time and resources to apply, not to mention re-level the frame, with the goal of improving said frame.
• Forma polarities should stack on the same mod slot, not override each other. As with the above, it makes little sense to lose something when investing time and resources into a frame, but on the flipside it could also encourage certain players to show their commitment to certain frames and weapons (maybe even companions) by pulling all polarities into every slot.

Overall, the goal of Forma should be to increase one's options on a frame, not restrict them, which is why I think the current restrictions imposed by Forma should be removed. Not only would this allow for much more freeform modding, but would also benefit DE in the future: currently, if a weapon ever gets reworked, DE usually has to hand out Forma to its owners to repolarize the weapon as needed, and when a frame gets reworked into something that requires different polarizations, that always leaves some players unhappy. Without the restrictions tied to polarization, these problems would cease to exist.

[Birdframe_Prime]

While it does take some players a while to level and finish a frame, the vast majority of the player base knows ways to level a frame multiple times in less than an hour's session, some players who run with teams can have a frame levelled in a single mission.

Forma is not there to prevent access to your fully levelled frame and its abiliites, it's a gating and limiter on how much power a frame can get from modding. The more specialised you make the frame (by virtue of tailoring it to a build) the more you limit it by locking it into that build.

A large part of the consideration when modding frames is whether a particular build on your A slot will interfere with a build on your B and C slot, if you don't account for it... you're doing it wrong.

[ShortCat]

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

Overall, the goal of Forma should be to increase one's options on a frame, not restrict them, which is why I think the current restrictions imposed by Forma should be removed.

While it sounds bizarre, your suggestions will actually limit diversity. If Forma would allow full flexibility on what you can put in any build, with enough investment the result will be a selection of a few top tier mods in every build. With full freedom of choice, there is no choice, as the best option is the only reasonable option. It would transform a customization system, into a tier system, where mods and Forma are the tiers.

[Tiltskillet]

7 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

While it sounds bizarre, your suggestions will actually limit diversity. If Forma would allow full flexibility on what you can put in any build, with enough investment the result will be a selection of a few top tier mods in every build. With full freedom of choice, there is no choice, as the best option is the only reasonable option. It would transform a customization system, into a tier system, where mods and Forma are the tiers.

I'm not sure I'm following this argument.  Don't duplicate frames already give us essentially the same end result as multi-polarity would? And  the fact some people use duplicates now means that instead of creating one ideal uber-build they still feel a need for specialized load-outs. I've got some recent experience with this myself, just having built a second Nezha so I can have both a tri-Umbra build and a more flexible one. 

Granted, it sure seems like there should be -more- reasons to have specialized load-outs than there are now.  But that seems like largely a problem of mod cost and balance, and with larger issues where certain effects are too powerful or too essential..  All of which should get addressed anyway.

 

 

[Teridax68]

2 hours ago, ShortCat said:

While it sounds bizarre, your suggestions will actually limit diversity. If Forma would allow full flexibility on what you can put in any build, with enough investment the result will be a selection of a few top tier mods in every build. With full freedom of choice, there is no choice, as the best option is the only reasonable option. It would transform a customization system, into a tier system, where mods and Forma are the tiers.

If there already exists some singular optimal build for any given frame, then that build can already be obtained with the current state of Forma, so there would be strictly no reduction in diversity from now. What I am suggesting, however, would allow for easier transition from one build to another, as there are many frames with multiple viable specialized builds that require completely different polarities. It is worth noting that this is already possible to achieve now, but requires multiple copies of the same frame, so what I and the OP are suggesting is essentially a QoL change, rather than some new feature entirely or any sort of power creep.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Teridax68

[ShortCat]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

Don't duplicate frames already give us essentially the same end result as multi-polarity would?

8 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

It is worth noting that this is already possible to achieve now, but requires multiple copies of the same frame

Indeed, but the cost is high, especially as there is no way to get a second Frame, if you do not spend plat in several cases(Octavia, Nidus etc).

10 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

... so there would be strictly no reduction in diversity from now. What I am suggesting, however, would allow for easier transition from one build to another, as there are many frames with multiple viable specialized builds that require completely different polarities.

You suggest to lower trade-off requirements, or almost eliminate them. This is not QoL, this is trivialization.

[SerpentBlack]

6 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Don't mix game setting and game mechanics.

ugh, been a long while since I actually wrote in forums, ok lets see, I shouldn't mix game settings with game mechanics? so your saying everything in the game should stay unfuturistic? Yet the game takes place in the future? I don't understand, details people DETAILS!

Trivialization and/or convenience is the wrong road to a fulfilling experience. And try better punctuation and paragraph usage, your post is unpleasant to read.

Ok so you demand that complexity and/or convenience is not right for a fulfilling experience...details? just a statement? hmm...and I should try using better punctuation and paragraph usage? and my post is unpleasant to read? Well how about I DO WHAT I WANT, and I didn't post this comment for a chance to please anyone, surprised that actually includes you? yes, but you know what is pleasant to waste your time on doing, then giving comments lacking details? WARFRAME, how about you give it a try, won't you? 🙂

 

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by SerpentBlack

[Tiltskillet]

23 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

Indeed, but the cost is high, especially as there is no way to get a second Frame, if you do not spend plat in several cases(Octavia, Nidus etc).

The cost or economic change is a different argument than the one I was responding too though.  And I don't have an answer for that one, other than yeah, it would be different.   Multi-polarity appeals to me because it just feels more neat than what we've got now.  And I personally wouldn't mind if it required a kind of superforma, or another system or tier on top of the current one, rather than just reusing the same resource.

 

 

[Teridax68]

58 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

Indeed, but the cost is high, especially as there is no way to get a second Frame, if you do not spend plat in several cases(Octavia, Nidus etc).

Okay, but the end result is the same. This restriction that you hold as sacred can be bypassed, albeit at a cost in resources, plat and convenience.

Quote

You suggest to lower trade-off requirements, or almost eliminate them. This is not QoL, this is trivialization.

To you, it is trivialization, but to most other people, it is the elimination of needless hassle, so it does indeed fall under QoL, regardless of how much hyperbole you attempt to inject into the matter. I'm having a hard time understanding why allowing a player to customize the same frame more fully, and with less inconvenience, would ever qualify as a negative, and more generally I think it's pretty unreasonable to put every little aspect of the current game on a pedestal. Sure, currently Forma polarity restrictions and overriding are an inconvenience that requires costs to bypass. No, that does not mean that inconvenience is inherently good, or necessary to the game.

In many ways, this reminds me of how a tiny fraction of forum residents kept shouting down anyone who proposed equipping multiple Dragon Keys at once, because the notion of Dragon Keys encouraging keyshares was somehow this sacred and unassailable feature that needed to be defended at all costs. This went on up until the last update, which first allowed multi-Key equipping to happen by accident, then officially made it a feature, because as it turns out, nobody at DE really cared about enforcing keysharing. It's incredibly easy to blow things out of proportion and argue that even the tiniest of beneficial changes would be catastrophic, but doing so makes massive assumptions that DE does not share, or no longer shares after this much development time. Unless you can somehow prove that DE intends for players to build or buy multiple instances of the same frame just to bypass Forma restrictions, or that they regard this as a good thing, you have strictly no grounds to produce that as a valid counterargument to the OP's point. The best you can do is state that you personally value that aspect of the current game, which ends up simply pitting your opinion against everyone else's.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Teridax68

[Birdframe_Prime]

16 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Okay, but the end result is the same. This restriction that you hold as sacred can be bypassed, albeit at a cost in resources, plat and convenience.

To you, it is trivialization, but to most other people, it is the elimination of needless hassle, so it does indeed fall under QoL, regardless of how much hyperbole you attempt to inject into the matter.

Actually, this isn't an argument of 'to you' or 'to me', many people would call things Quality of Life, but they are considered trivialisation not because of opinion on the matter, but instead because of the intended methods.

You see, this is an old, old topic. It's actually been answered by the Devs so far back that most, even though they've been here a couple of years, won't even have come across the topic.

It's simply that the 'specialisation causes limitation' model is exactly the intended method of playing this game. 

They want you to grind up another frame, pay the platinum for the slot, or even pay the platinum for the entire frame, grind/pay for the new potato, grind/pay for the new Forma, all of it. It's completely intentional that you have to go out of your way for it.

Removing that by allowing a single Forma to suddenly become infinite Forma on a dedicated slot... no, that's just not going to happen. One polarity, permanent, becoming infinite polarity changes? That's literally breaking the modding system as currently intended.

[Teridax68]

4 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Actually, this isn't an argument of 'to you' or 'to me', many people would call things Quality of Life, but they are considered trivialisation not because of opinion on the matter, but instead because of the intended methods.

This claim doesn't really say anything or add to the discussion, because it makes no argument for why quality of life is supposedly a subjective term, nor why the matter being discussed here should be objectively held as trivialization. Quality of life is often misused, but it is generally held as anything that adds convenience and ease of use to a game, without affecting said game's core balance. Because the proposal at hand would eliminate the inconvenience of having to stack and sort through multiple versions of the same frame, but would not make any of those frames more powerful in any given mission, it is by definition a QoL change. By contrast, whether or not this change "trivializes" anything is eminently subjective, because not everyone believes that buying multiple frames carries inherent value or challenge to begin with (in fact, it is questionable whether having to buy an extra frame with platinum qualifies as a challenge at all).

4 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

You see, this is an old, old topic. It's actually been answered by the Devs so far back that most, even though they've been here a couple of years, won't even have come across the topic.

Care to show where this was answered by the devs? Does this hold relevance in today's game and environment? You see, Warframe is a game that's been in ongoing development for years, and many opinions that the devs once had have changed over time. Them easily allowing players to equip multiple Dragon Keys at once is but the latest evidence of this.

4 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

It's simply that the 'specialisation causes limitation' model is exactly the intended method of playing this game. 

Where exactly do the devs or game state that they intentionally want to limit players? Why is there value in doing so? Again, this design philosophy does not even hold, because as has already been mentioned, these limitations can be bypassed with duplicates of the same warframe.

4 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

They want you to grind up another frame, pay the platinum for the slot, or even pay the platinum for the entire frame, grind/pay for the new potato, grind/pay for the new Forma, all of it. It's completely intentional that you have to go out of your way for it.

Do they, or do you? Again, you are making a lot of claims that are completely unsubstantiated, and speaking on DE's behalf in spite of any supporting evidence.

4 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Removing that by allowing a single Forma to suddenly become infinite Forma on a dedicated slot... no, that's just not going to happen. One polarity, permanent, becoming infinite polarity changes? That's literally breaking the modding system as currently intended.

How would this be "literally breaking the modding system"? What abuse would arise from this? Again, what is being proposed would not change the overall moddability of frames, it would simply allow that same customization to happen on the same frame, without having to build or buy more of that same frame to make it happen. What you are demonstrating in your reply is the exact sort of hyperbolic, baseless fearmongering that I criticized in my above post.

[peterc3]

2 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Where exactly do the devs or game state that they intentionally want to limit players? Why is there value in doing so? Again, this design philosophy does not even hold, because as has already been mentioned, these limitations can be bypassed with duplicates of the same warframe.

It's how it works and hasn't changed, from what I can tell, ever? Unchecked power just means there's no point to the game anymore. DE should just move on. Which means you bought a slot. Congrats, you found their super hidden monetization.

2 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Do they, or do you? Again, you are making a lot of claims that are completely unsubstantiated, and speaking on DE's behalf in spite of any supporting evidence.

Being ignorant of the evidence doesn't invalidate it.

[Teridax68]

10 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

It's how it works and hasn't changed, from what I can tell, ever? Unchecked power just means there's no point to the game anymore. DE should just move on. Which means you bought a slot. Congrats, you found their super hidden monetization.

But we already do have unchecked raw power, and that comes from the sheer strength of our mods and a broken Energy economy, not from freedom to polarize the same frame however we want. You are confusing multiple issues at hand, while pretending that some players equipping duplicate frames is somehow DE's super secret hidden monetization scheme that they also depend on, for some reason. Nothing you have just said makes even a lick of sense.

10 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Being ignorant of the evidence doesn't invalidate it.

Which evidence, pray tell? Again, from what's been said this is apparently something that was only mentioned a long time ago, so at that point there's a burden of proof to point out where that is, and why it is still relevant now. There is currently no difference right now between you failing to point out existing evidence, and you simply making things up to justify a flimsy argument. I asked for clarification that would help separate one from the other, yet for some reason evidence is the one thing you are not wasting time and effort to post.

[Oreades]

A multi-polarity system is honestly the way to go if you want to encourage Build Diversity, full stop. 

The current system essentially enforces a meta and punishes players for coloring outside the lines by wasting their time/resources.

There are literally no down sides to a multi-polarity system, it rewards players for their time/resource investment even if they mispolarize something by proxy of future flexability and it adds exactly zero power creep to the game. 

In fact the only argument against it is it's lack of a down side and that's a pretty lame/lazy argument IMO. As far as I'm concerned there is exactly zero reason to try to force a downside into peoples build decisions. It isn't like a multi-polarity system is giving people any more power, it's just letting them make their build flexable. If it really needs a "down side" its the fact they had to spend that much extra time/resources to try out a build they might not like. 

Throwing in an additional time/resource sink if they decide they don't like, just to get back to where they where adds exactly nothing to the game and is the reason that most people read build guides and never look past their cookie cutter builds. 

I can't recall all the times I've looked at the a mod/augment the devs have added and all I can think is "wow they're really trying to get people to deviate from their builds" the problem is they aren't addressing THE THING that is keeping people from deviating from their builds. Cause it isn't a lack of mods it's the Formaing system itself that is what is causing people to stick to vun und exactly vun build unless you present them with direct power creep.  

I'm sure that's going to raise the attention of someone who is going to say "but random stranger on the internet I have four Saryns and they all have different builds" rest assured my random friend you are the edge case. The same goes to you my "but random stranger on the internet I have an (insert favorite frame) with 100 Forma in it" you have achieved not but a meme.

 

TL;DR

Stop needlessly punishing people for coloring outside the lines and embrace a multi-polarity system. It's good for build diversity and there is zero power creep. 

 

Edit:

Just for clarification I do feel that if you want 4 polarities on one slot, it should cost you four Forma. Which means people could spend up to 40 Forma on a single frame assuming the frame started with no polarities. All 40 of those forma are going to give you value in the form of flexibility. Tho the players wouldn't end up feeling "obligated" to do that because they could still get to where we are with now the 2-5 Forma for a cookie cutter build, they are just nolonger punished for "coloring outside the lines". So you want to put that 6th Forma in and turn one of your Vs into a V/D you've gained flexibility. Now you can put either a V or a D in that mod slot and since you can only put one and not both, no power creep. 

As far as Umbral Mods go, I feel those should be treated like "Colorless Mana" (assuming the developers stick to their "We aren't adding Umbral Forma to the game") where in which they don't get punished for putting them in an incorrect polarity they simply count as 16pts. The only time they ever get the reduction in point cost is when they are applied to a slot with an Umbral Polarity. So you could put them in a blank slot and they would cost 16pts, you could put them in a Vazerine polarity and they would still cost 16pts, It isn't until you put them into an Umbral Polarity (which we as players can not add) that they cost 8pts. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Oreades

[Solarsyphon]

Honestly I don't really care if they choose to implement this I've never been restricted by polarity except with umbral mods but I do want to express what I think this change would mean. Firstly  this would at least  triple the value of forma and preinstalled polarities as you can have 3x the variation of it for the same cost. Secondly it would make mod polarity pointless as all polarities could be changed instantly. The end result is that it would be simpler to simply remove polarity rather than having all that UI to change polarity when ever. Why make a button to choose if the choice is neither permanent or exclusive. Polarisation would be replaced with either a system like the Paracesis where the capacity increases the more forma you put in or forma's slots would become universal. Both effectively end with the same result a higher capacity number.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

On 2018-10-19 at 10:30 AM, Teridax68 said:

My 2 main requests for Forma:

• Forma should no longer increase mod drain for mods that don't match the polarity. This is the main reason why people end up picking multiple of the same frame, because specializing into one setup locks out many others, with the problem worsening the more Forma one sinks in. This impedes diversity overall, and runs contrary to the goals set by the modding system in the first place, which is meant to offer freedom of customization and room for experimentation. It also makes little sense for Forma to carry a negative effect when it's a consumable item that takes time and resources to apply, not to mention re-level the frame, with the goal of improving said frame.
• Forma polarities should stack on the same mod slot, not override each other. As with the above, it makes little sense to lose something when investing time and resources into a frame, but on the flipside it could also encourage certain players to show their commitment to certain frames and weapons (maybe even companions) by pulling all polarities into every slot.

Overall, the goal of Forma should be to increase one's options on a frame, not restrict them, which is why I think the current restrictions imposed by Forma should be removed. Not only would this allow for much more freeform modding, but would also benefit DE in the future: currently, if a weapon ever gets reworked, DE usually has to hand out Forma to its owners to repolarize the weapon as needed, and when a frame gets reworked into something that requires different polarizations, that always leaves some players unhappy. Without the restrictions tied to polarization, these problems would cease to exist.

I could get behind this. Seems like a dream system!

[Teridax68]

4 hours ago, Solarsyphon said:

Why make a button to choose if the choice is neither permanent or exclusive. Polarisation would be replaced with either a system like the Paracesis where the capacity increases the more forma you put in or forma's slots would become universal. Both effectively end with the same result a higher capacity number.

It's worth noting that in order to make a polarity "universal", you'd have to put four Forma into the same slot (five, in the case of companions), so there is a non-trivial difference between giving slots universal polarity through the accumulation of Forma, and doing so with just one. In neither case would there be "a higher capacity number", because your overall capacity would remain the same: you'd be able to equip multiple specialized builds on the same frame, but each specialized build would not be gaining additional capacity, particularly since it's usually possible to gain all of the capacity one needs through the current use of Forma already, bar the exception of some particular Umbral mod setups (which wouldn't be affected here).

[WarBaby2]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Pauloluisx said:

I could get behind this. Seems like a dream system!

True, investing Forma should always be a nat gain... now just add the option to actually change mod setups from the navigation panel, and it would be perfect.

[Solarsyphon]

On 2018-10-20 at 11:04 PM, Teridax68 said:

It's worth noting that in order to make a polarity "universal", you'd have to put four Forma into the same slot (five, in the case of companions), so there is a non-trivial difference between giving slots universal polarity through the accumulation of Forma, and doing so with just one. In neither case would there be "a higher capacity number", because your overall capacity would remain the same: you'd be able to equip multiple specialized builds on the same frame, but each specialized build would not be gaining additional capacity, particularly since it's usually possible to gain all of the capacity one needs through the current use of Forma already, bar the exception of some particular Umbral mod setups (which wouldn't be affected here).

The polarity locking makes the math more complicated because it makes different mods have different capacity values. Without that the math they have much clearer capacity values and math becomes a linear equation where each forma increases the capacity by a set amount. It basically does this already but the polarity system makes some configurations have a lower capacity instead of it always being an increase. With any system that removes the negative the mods capacity would be better expressed as a raw number around 90 for weapons and 90 + 1.5* aura for frames with full forma and a catalyst. 

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Solarsyphon
Making it simpler

[Teridax68]

42 minutes ago, Solarsyphon said:

It's effectively the same as gaining capacity because each unit of capacity becomes worth more. Converting from 30 capacity no forma to 30 capacity forma is a unit conversion mathematically similar to converting from 1 cm to 1m.  There are currently some differences but the proposal here removes the main one. Firstly the conversion factor is 2 not 10. Secondly the conversion isn't a true function the actual increase to capacity is also effected by mod polarity and drain. The proposals here are a bypass to polarity making polarizing almost identical to a straight increase in capacity. So the equation would become a simple  y= base+(aX)/2, y= capacity 30 = the base but it is 60 with a reactor x = number is the of forma and A is the average mod drain in polarised slots. Fun fact the maximum capacity on a fully forma'd weapon is 90 for a frame it depends on the aura but the standard is 111 and an absolute max of 114.

Next up stacking forma on the same slot is the same as universal umbral slots which is the same as scrapping polarity they just have different costs to remove polarity. The only possible difference is how long it takes to make polarity irrelevant. Each suggestion simply has a different name and a different cost for a universal polarity slot and like I said it is functionally equivalent to increased mod capacity which there are hints of them doing with some weapons any way.

The pseudo-math you are producing is gibberish, and fails to acknowledge the very simple fact that the drain reduction offered by any single polarity does not stack for the same mod in a mod slot. A fully Forma'd warframe with a mod in every slot would not be able to magically equip additional mods on top if Forma polarities started stacking, and the only way in which they would be able to equip more expensive mods is if they had the wrong polarities to begin with, in which case they still would've been able to apply drain-heavy mods of the corresponding polarity. The only improvement offered by allowing different Forma polarities to coexist on the same mod slot, and not apply a drain penalty when a mod of the "wrong" polarity is equipped, is that it would allow players to use the same warframe for completely different builds, albeit still with the need to use different loadouts. One would no longer need two copies of the same warframe to test out two highly specialized mod setups, an increasingly common occurrence after the appearance of umbral mods. The upper cap on the power you'd bring to any given mission would remain unchanged, so ultimately this would in no way power creep the game. It would, however, make customizing a frame much more convenient for more advanced players, while also potentially encouraging players to show their mastery of a frame or weapon by applying the maximum number of Forma to each slot.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Teridax68

[Solarsyphon]

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

The pseudo-math you are producing is gibberish, and fails to acknowledge the very simple fact that the drain reduction offered by any single polarity does not stack for the same mod in a mod slot. A fully Forma'd warframe with a mod in every slot would not be able to magically equip additional mods if Forma polarities started stacking, and the only way in which they would be able to equip more expensive mods is if they had the wrong polarities to begin with, in which case they still would've been able to apply drain-heavy mods of the corresponding polarity. The only improvement offered by allowing different Forma polarities to coexist on the same mod slot, and not apply a drain penalty when a mod of the "wrong" polarity is equipped, is that it would allow players to use the same warframe for completely different builds, albeit still with the need to use different loadouts. One would no longer need two copies of the same warframe to test out two highly specialized mod setups, an increasingly common occurrence after the appearance of umbral mods. The upper cap on the power you'd bring to any given mission would remain unchanged, so ultimately this would in no way power creep the game. It would, however, make customizing a frame much more convenient for more advanced players, while also potentially encouraging players to show their mastery of a frame or weapon by applying the maximum number of Forma to each slot.

I never said you would be able to equip additional mods or that there would be power creep. I just said it would make the math more linear and that allot of the ideas here would have that same effect.  Maybe I didn't express that very well but what I want to say is if the system is going to be simpler show that simplicity. Don't add fake complexity by hiding a very linear non conditional increase behind meaningless symbols.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Solarsyphon
Grammar

[Kyronz]

forma ls like endo...useless as hell, i have over 150 of te useless things.

but it is always good  to take note that DE believes for one little tiny sec....veterans needed endo....they out of it or just not give a darn, and you really cannot expect much from q company that out of touch.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Kyronz

[Teridax68]

1 hour ago, Solarsyphon said:

I never said you would be able to equip additional mods or that there would be power creep. I just said it would make the math more linear and that allot of the ideas here would have that same effect.  Maybe I didn't express that very well but what I want to say is if the system is going to be simpler show that simplicity. Don't add fake complexity by hiding a very linear non conditional increase behind meaningless symbols.

This I can agree with more. I agree that polarities ultimately don't really offer depth, so much as an extra step towards increasing one's power with some side-effects attached. In an ideal world, I'd prefer to eliminate the mechanic entirely, along with Reactors and Catalysts, and rebalance mod drains so that there aren't so many mechanics in place that let us slap on more stats. However, what is being discussed here is a much smaller-scope suggestion that wouldn't redo the current system, so much as eliminate much of the inconvenience. You could still implement this suggestion and have the time to suggest broader changes to Forma and polarities farther down the line.